It seems to me like there are 5 places the grocery store has tomatoes and and you need to check all 5 places before you know which place you should buy from. Then, maybe next time you're at the grocery store, a different spot will have the better tomatoes and there are also 3 other new tomato stands in the store.
I'm definitely grateful for lemmy or kbin or mastodon or wherever the fuck I am right now as a reddit replacement, but this shit is confusing and annoying
I go to two different grocery stores to get different vegetables because they have varying quality. For example, if I want tomatoes I go to store 1 and for onions I go to store 2. For carrots I go to either because they are fine at both.
So if two instances have tomato, onion, and carrot magazines/communities with similar quality patterns I might want to sub tomatoes at one, onions at the other, and carrots at both.
I just want an easier way to find all of the instances that have onions so I know what I might be missing at the local farmer's market. Or find out that a new farmer's market opened up!
Cool! I'm not growing as many tomatoes this year as some years — we've gone in heavily for strawberries and herbs this spring, and potatoes this summer — but I've got a Brad's Atomic Grape and an Indigo Ruby starting to set fruit.
This is how the world works. On Reddit there were multiple subs that covered the same topics, but the mods developed different cultures and vibes through moderation tactics and sub policies.
If you want a car, there are different companies who all provide one but with different options. Same goes for ISPs, TV networks, restaurants, and schools.
It isn't at all a new concept and I'm not sure why people coming from reddit continue to get stuck on it. Subscribe to them all and as they mature unsub from the ones that develop into something you don't feel like you need.
Posting to all of them will be easier when cross posting is possible on Kbin (it is already possible on Lemmy) but developments like that often take time.
Adding an edit as I've thought a bit more: I think it's important, for those coming from reddit, to truly understand why the Fediverse exists. The intention is to be open source. To ensure that there is no single source of power. There are 'unlimited' options (instances, magazines, etc.) to ensure that it cannot be swayed, corrupted.
This is why people are coming from Reddit - you are seeing what happens when one corporation has the power and sets the terms.
I think it's lovely to dip your toes here, ask questions, and see if you'd like to stick around. But please do understand the intention is not to be Reddit 2.0. We should not try to turn it into that.
I think this answer is the most accurate. People get too hung up same names on different servers. There will always be multiple versions of a community whether they have the same name on different servers or whether one of them snagged the og name and others prefixed with Real_x / True_x. Imo I like it this way better because there's less favoritism to the one that comes first / people can't universally squat on a community name
I think the key for people who are confused about this is that it's necessary to consider the part after the "@" to be just as much a part of the community name as the part before it. There's no such thing as a community named "No Stupid Questions", with no @whatever after it, because all community names inherently include that portion.
As an alternative solution there are issues for "multireddit"-like features, this issue for Lemmy, and Kbin has one here.
It's a sticking point because it's new to people who only have experience with reddit after it became more mainstream. Lemmy, Kbin, Mastodon, etc. and how they all work together isn't a super simple concept. For all the shortfalls of a centralized social media website, the prevention of multiple separate communities having the exact same name is convenient and simple. It prevents duplicated posts. You want to capture all of the traffic in one place. That's why link aggregation sites and blogs exist, so in order to do that you have to subscribe to all of them. But then there's a pretty significant chance you'll see the exact same post cross-posted to the other 3 communities...which would annoyingly bloat your feed obviously.
It isn’t at all a new concept and I’m not sure why people coming from reddit continue to get stuck on it.
Because having communities with an identical name on different instances will fracture the community. Given the hallmarks of the fediverse this is practically intended, to my understanding, but it is bad for initial growth and coherence of posts. This happened on Reddit as well, of course it did, but the way instances are completely separate and communities can have the exact same name compounds the issue.
Because having communities with an identical name on different instances will fracture the community.
They're different communities on different websites, though. Trying to force them all into one space is erasing all communities but one, just for the sake of having to see an @website.com address, or for pretending you're not missing out on something when you ignore 99.9% of posts and comments that end up in the space.
1 million users discussing a topic spread out across 1000 communities of 1000 active users leads to more vibrant and meaningful discussions on that topic than having 1 million of them all crammed into one place, shouting and competing for slivers of attention. And no one will miss anything of deep value in the 999 other communities, because people will cross-post the good bits anyway.
There is no "the community", though. These names don't "belong" to any one specific group of people, there's no "there can be only one" mandate.
As an example of why "there can be only one" is a bad thing, there's /r/StarWars and /r/SaltierThanCrait over on Reddit. When the Disney Sequel trilogy came out there were some Star Wars fans who liked it and some who didn't, and it became such a contentious subject that those who didn't like it were literally driven out of /r/StarWars and had to create /r/SaltierThanCrait so that they could discuss their opinions without being downvoted into oblivion or outright banned. Why should they have had to give up the name StarWars, though?
Another example is /r/Canada and /r/OnGuardForThee, which was a similar sort of schism - /r/Canada got "taken over" by right wing moderators and those who weren't of that particular political bent ended up having to make a subreddit with an unrelated name. Why should one group and not the other get to name their community "Canada"?
Starting up is always hard. Short of copying over a subreddit to a declared official new home (which did happen for a few), you have to build up from nothing. I think it's come a long way in only the last few weeks. I've already seen a post complimenting the response time and answers from a Lemmy community when the Reddit posts went ignored, and also I've seen one community owner realize that the other communities of similar names are doing much better and decide to close up. Another group decided the best solution was not to try and pull in other communities, but act as a general discussion that also served to link up the many specific niche communities distributed throughout Lemmy and Kbin. Lastly the attacks on .world and .ml serve as a reminder of the benefits of having duplicity. What if one of those had been a long-time established home of a community with millions of posts and got wiped from such a thing?
This is evolution in action, what works best will prevail, and part of that will be redundancy and adaptive ability.
I'm here from Reddit and that's what I've been doing, just subscribing to whatever I can find for each subreddit I'm losing, and then whichever one seems like it's either most active or has the most quality content stays and I unsub from whatever sublems aren't providing content.
This OP seems pissed off about subbing to multiple sublems that are the same but like....you don't have to. Go use Reddit? lol
The multiple sublems thing is kinda the point of Lemmy, there isn't one big overlord controlling everything
Cross instance communities or a way to stich these places together better needs to happen though. Splinter groups making their own community is fine, but there needs to be some main communities for things.
It's not just a make it more like reddit need. If lemmy.world decides to defederate like beehaw (or goes down), then all that content is gone from lots of other people, and the fediverse as a whole loses. If there exists a way to blend communities, then maybe people only notice less posts on memes rather than just an empty void.
It's also a huge discovery problem, some people are going to think there isn't an active NSQ community, and maybe try making yet another, because the didn't find the one active community. It's also possible that there's 5-10 small/tiny- communities that could become a single thriving community of they were able to actually discover and coordinate with each other.
Discovering new communities that share names and topics will be the biggest core improvement in my opinion. Like having a way for an instance to poll all federated instances for communities with the same name or with a name that includes a term to easily add would be awesome.
Then the ability to combine them into subsets of your siscriptions by whatever topic you want would be awesome. Like instead of subscriptions as a while you could have 'Tabletop Gaming' with various 40k, CAV, BattleTech, and other games grouped how you want or subgroups for each game.
I actually think the fediverse is going to fracture very quickly. You're going to have instances that will defederate with anyone that permits the slightest bit of anti-trans commenting and you're going to have instances that will make 4chan look inclusive and will defederate from anyone posting "woke bullshit"
Ive posted on here before that its only a matter of time before someone like Volkswagen-Audi start their own instance so they can control the narrative and push their own content too.
And I can ABSOLUTELY see paid only instances for well moderated kid friendly content and also hardcore porn.
Yes, it will fracture, but hopefully at the fringes, as you mentioned. So thsie with extreme views find it difficult to get traction due to lack of users or lack of places to post.
It should mean that we don't get brigading from communities. You can just block them. It should.nean that there are safer communities but they miss out on some content.
At the moment, the only large communities are general. That may change over time. I do hope that companies start their own instances. Not to control the narrative, but to be their official communication. I don't want commercial users using the community instances.
Again, then, they can be blocked but also, they can be verified.
Everyone's going to say No, and "just subscribe to the most active one", but if you're a 'Fediverse completionist' and want to ensure that there's not a single thing you miss anywhere at any time, then the answer is Yes.
Correct. Ultimately it's up to each person how much they want to extend themselves into the Fediverse. You really can't follow everything everywhere all the time, so you need to pick what you want your feed to consist of.
I've subscribed to any redundant tech / IT security related communities no matter how many of them there are, because I always want to stay current on any news that could impact the network environment I manage.
On the other hand, I like seeing some memes, but memes@lemmy.ml will absolutely flood your front page if you subscribe to it, so I stick to a few smaller meme subs like starwarsmemes@lemmy.world, risa@startrek.website, and lotrmemes@midwest.social.
No. You don't have to. But if you want to throw a wide net and not just wind up with a singular place with a unified mentality, it's good to have multiple places focused on the same topic. For perspective.
So? Reddit has about 10 sizeable Subs that are just a variation of "Ask Any and All Questions". That's not even counting speciality subs like "MedicalQuestions" or "ITQuestions" or "DermatologyQuestions" or "AskTrangender". Or the different language ones like "FragReddit" (German). In the end 1-3 will become the major ones, all will be a bit different and everyone will find the ones they like most.
Choosing different communities with the stated purpose is all about context: the policies of the mods, the policies of the admins, and the reputation of the instance. Yes, it isn't a perfect analogy, but people need to shift how the think about the Lemmy/Kbin model from how they think about Reddit, and the example that seems to connect most easily with users is e-mail. Maybe a more subtle / apt analogy would be !cool_game@lemmy.world has an obviously different context and significantly different content than !cool_game@coolgamedev.com, but the same stated purpose (and community name).
The problem is that it isn't just the users who are confused about this: Lemmy admins seem to each have the goal of being "the place to be", and Kbin goes out of its way to devalue off-instance content. I personally think (primarily) user instances should be separate from (primarily) content instances, but that would take a coordinated effort by the admins. We are starting to see some grass roots efforts at making that happen, though the actions of the admins may prevent that from taking hold.
Ask yourself if you subscribed to /r/tech or /r/technology or both or neither (or /r/pics, /r/pic etc., whatever you jam is) and you will have your answer.
A community name is just an address, both on Lemmy and on Reddit. It never mean that that address had the exclusive rights to a topic.
Yeah, this actually happens on Reddit a fair amount. Off the top of my head, there's /r/tearsofthekingdom and /r/totk which both have 100,000+ subs, and /r/nsfw_gif and /r/nsfw_gifs that have millions of subs.
EDIT: There's also /r/gaming and /r/games which was a notable early community split when people started complaining that /r/gaming had too many low-effort memes.
No offense, but you're argument reveals that you're thinking of all this fedi stuff as a service provided to you, like Facebook or reddit.
It is not. It is people like you and me creating and taking part in them.
These tools are BRAND NEW. It is likely the creators of one didn't know about the other(s) at that time. This is US doing all this for US not a corporation making tools to suck people in to advertise to.
Not gonna crit you further. You probably don't remember the internet before the corps ruined it.
Can you be any more condescending? Op has a point, it is not ideal to have the same community on different instances. There is no need to be a dick about it.
Sorry, didn't mean to be dickish. I just reread my post. Saying "sounds like you're expecting a corporate experience" was an observation is not an insult.
Decentralized stuff is fundamentally different than centralized coordinates corporate stuff. Serious question, do you understand how it is that so many people can start so many similar communities?
It's not the same community. It's 5 different communities on 5 different instances that all happen to have the same name. It will be the owners of those communities to determine whether or not they want to consolidate.
Yeah, as someone who used to frequent car forums back in the day, one way I think about it is you might have Mazda, Subaru, Ford, Chevy, etc specific forums. And they all had subsections devoted to suspension upgrades, with a lot of content that would look really similar to someone just getting into cars. But they also met the different needs of the different communities, and had their own vibes and culture.
Now imagine all those communities could interact with each other directly, and you end up with something like what we're getting with the Fediverse.
You don't have to if you don't want to. Subscribe to the one you like best, and help grow that one.
Personally, I find myself only subscribing to and browsing communities on the local instance. The idea of the Fediverse is cool and all, but it's just way too much information for one person to process.
This where I’m at. I’ve given up on any content that isn’t on Lemmy.world
Federation is honestly a lot more trouble than it’s worth and I wish a different system had been implemented. Unfortunately it’s too late to change that.
It’s an example. If there are multiple instances of a thing do I need to subscribe to all of them? The answer is yes. It’s different from Reddit but there are pro and cons.
The answer is no. You don't NEED to subscribe to all of them. If you want to make absolutely sure you don't miss a single thing everyone says on that topic, then maybe you do. But if you are just interested in electric cars, you can just pick the most active one of the one with the most subscribers. Even on reddit there were both /r/electriccars and /r/electricvehicles.
Some of these duplicate communities are just placeholders. But sometimes, the differences are obvious, where one community Is populated by jerks or modded by power-trippers.
Over time, the more popular community will become clear by the number of subscribers. (Or the real, topical one will give itself a different name to avoid confusion with the jerks).
They don’t get the message that a similar community already exists because they are on separate instances. Due to defederation, it’s possible that not all of those communities will be visible from all other instances. This is one reason why it’s useful to have the same community across multiple instances.
Only if it's configurable. It would be trivial for bad actors to find a niche sub, make a copycat of it on another instance, and start posting spam etc.
I think there will probably be a natural selection of which one prevails. But each instances may have different rules and different mods. So follow and unfollow the few that have what you like. It would be nice in the future though to ability to create aggregate subs or find aggregate subs like a multi-subreddit for a given topic.
For now yes, but over time probably no. Multiple communities around the same subject are created on different instances. They'll compete to become the most active one. Then everyone will subscribe to that one, and it will grow even more.
However, if over time you don't like that one any more (e.g. don't agree with the mods) you can start a community with the same name somewhere else and compete again to become the most active one (or not, and stay small if that is preferred).
Such as the most populated, most active, or most secluded if that's what you like. It's a good thing OP, we are not locked down to one community in the event that one goes crazy.
can you subscribe to all of them? yes. do you have to? No. Lemmy is still new, overtime people will gravitate to particular ones and the others will wither away
Pretty much, but i I think as the apps and front ends mature, we’ll be able to set up personal “multireddits.” I don’t mind signing up for the multiple communities because I understand why or is that way. However, do think the instances are forming more from simple load distribution and less from the types of deep seated shared interests that may have been predicted. The result is that there are more communities than expected that might benefit from being "collated", but that will be a pretty personal decision.
isn't activitypub stuff basically open?
so you could create or comission your own platform/ interface that can synthesize posts from all sorts of places and could even do things about duplicates?
thats the benefir of the open source data model and apis - someone can probabledevlop the features you want - eventually.
the current platforms probably all look a bit like pre existing forums / aggregators or social media . butthats just a starting pont, the future could be much weirder ways of compiling displaying and creating posts. and in theory it can all interoprate (within reason, and outwith federation blocks)
i probably have no idea what i'm talking about though . . . i've certainly not even queried a single activitypub api personally
For example, if No Stupid Questions@kbin.social tomorrow decides to add a rule "No Post about cats" there are still others you can subscribe to that won't have that rule
Can we get some multicommunities that can include some of most active for a given community across whichever instance they're in that can be subscribed to at once?
Or does that feature exist already and I just don't know about it?
There were multireddits before. Not quite the same use case, but similar concept.
You don't have to. You can. You can also only subscribe to one of them. Did you subscribe to every single subreddit covering a specific or non specific topic? Is it an issue that you get content from ~4 different communities / magazines of similar content? Why make it harder than it is?
The only issue of any substance is that I often like to browse a particular community. It would be nice to get some front-end interface solution that makes it reasonable to do so for multiple communities. I’m happy to set it up manually once, but it would be tedious to check in on, say, the mechanical keyboard communities on 5 different instances every day.
For my main feed, a shotgun approach is absolutely fine, and I wouldn’t want to weaken the benefits of federation by herding everyone into a single instance per “interest.”
I do think that maybe the Lemmy developers were expecting each instance to have a more distinct character than is happening so far, at least on average. Federation in the threadiverse seems to be acting more like simple distribution, load balancing, and decentralization, rather than digital tourism defaulting to open borders.
We should have an option to merge communities in 1 single feed or something. Or maybe a grouping function, where we could name the group, and any communities under that group would show as a single group. Then other people could like your group and also subscribe etc. But that way maybe things could get complicated. I mean for the average Joe it will already be difficult IMO to make the effort to understand the Fediverse. I mean I took my time to understand it and start using it, cause I was lazy and had Reddit. I guess there are no perfect solutions, there's always dissadvantages. For sure 1 thing that is attactive with centralized systems is the peace of mind when it comes to understanding it, because it's simple etc. Like starting using Crypto vs using a bank account and so on.
Oh I'm rambling already.
No, you don't have to subscribe to any of them, much less all of them.
There's gong to be multiples with a given name because they each exist on their own instance. Instances are mini reddits that can talk to each other, not the same site.
You want redundancy, it's one of the biggest benefits of federation and decentralization.
I don't understand why some people have an issue with this but maybe is due to the way I have browsed Reddit for years, do with Mastodon now and plan to keep doing with Lemmy though I still haven't finished setting it up. I like having different "home pages", much like in Mastodon I can browse my following feed, the instance feed and the federated feed depending on the kind of content I want to look at that moment. Or all of them in succession if I want to check it all. When I was in Twitter I had to use lists to resemble something like this.
Reddit was even better for this if you took the time to set it up: if you suscribed to every single thing that caught your attention no matter your level of interest in it your suscribed feed ended up being clogged by the most popular subreddits among your suscribed communities, so you wound up missing out on some interesting posts in your more niche, slow communities. My solution was to only suscribe to the smallest communities where I didn't want to miss a single one of the posts (for example staples like GameDeals or some other minor communities I was temporarily fixated into, like say a specific videogame or themed subreddit -I unsuscribed from those when I got tired of them). Then, slowly and naturally while I browse keep heavily heavily curating the general feed by using the filter/block function, getting rid of anything that didn't interest me or wasn't good for me (in whatever way you want to interpret it, for example filtering ragebait subs) or often innocuous big subs I was tired of seeing or whose whole shtick had grown old. The result was a smaller suscribed feed I could quickly check daily with the reassurance that I wouldn't miss out on anything from those communities and a general feed that was always interesting to me but with the potential to show any kind of new community for me to decide to keep or filter away.
For real? I didn't know this is how it worked. I don't even know how to find those other instances. Do they just come up automagically or do you have to specifically search under those other instances?
Federation works a little differently. Having said that, it's not too far from reddit either. For example on reddit, as a basketball fan, I visit r/nba often. But then there are also other subs like r/nbadiscussion, r/nbatalk, and other subs that have overlapping content as r/nba. That's the same case here, except they are on different instances rather than subreddits. You can do the same as what you do on reddit and subscribe to the most popular instance community and that's it. Eventually as time goes by, the most popular community will become the "default" so you won't really miss out on content. If you really have FOMO, then subscribe to all of them; same as what you would do on reddit; but obviously you don't do that right?
I mean you can, but there are instances I don't want to be federated with because of some of the content they host (which is moot for this discussion and I'm not thinking enough into whether they're any of these four). In those cases, I wouldn't want to subscribe to those specific communities. Kind of a guilt by association thing. Shitty, but it's how the system works.
"That's the way of the world" is usually said by Ayn Rand types who don't care about anyone else or know how to make things better.
Also, they paint the questioner as some nutter obsessed with finding every single byte about a topic.
And, no one is "stuck" on anything, we notice a defect and want to find a solution.
So think about this. Suppose you're making a community for, say, Ukrainians who have taken refuge in the USA.
What kind of person shrugs off their need to find each other and says "Suck it up buttercup". Or makes fun of them for asking.
Yes, there are inconvenient and irritating ways of handling the problem. Shrugging it off just tells me what kind of person you are, but it doesn't improve anything.
Now, what we could do - crazy, I know, hear me out - is think of a way to conglomerate all the content from diverse instances with different policies into one community where anyone can hear everyone else.
Two kinds of people in this world. The ones who start asking mocking questions, and those who put their heads together.
It's not like there is absolutely no solution. There are a lot of tools for finding Lemmy communities right now. You could go to one of these tools and search for Ukraine and get a list of communities.
Subscribing to all of them is effectively making a conglomerate of their content in your home feed. I don't see anything wrong with this approach. Other than that things will naturally work themselves out over time as people tend towards a single community.
You calling me Ayn Rand for saying that we should not hand over all power to a single corporation and then in the same breath also suggesting conglomerating all instances into one is... a bit absurd in my opinion. I am also going to choose to overlook you trying to link having the option to click 'subscribe' three times to the plight of Ukrainian refugees.
I do apologize if it seems I'm "mocking" anyone. Clearly that is not my intention - especially on 'No Stupid Questions'. Try not to become so defensive here, we're just having a conversation.
I don't think auto-combining similar named communities is a viable solution, except in the case of users doing it themselves (e.g. multireddits or whatever).
Different communities, even with the "same name" (technically not possible because the @domain is part of the name), will have different vibes based on who participates, who moderates, what instances they're on, etc. Mashing all of those together would at minimum, be a bad user experience and at worst, invite tons of harassment from 'troll' communities.
The process you are going through now is how things get “better”.
Right now there a a multitude of communities across multiple instances that all superficially appear to be the same thing; if you must have ready access to all of it in your feed then yes you will need to subscribe to all of them.
The reality is that these places are not all the same. Not everyone is going to want to join all of them and they will be subject to different moderation. There will be different levels of activity and on the whole different vibes.
Over time, some will diverge, some will diminish and some will close and direct you to post elsewhere.
If you’re comparing to Reddit - that is a place where a lot of this has already happened; for mainstream subjects one sub became dominant but it’s worth bearing in mind that for some niche subjects there would still be a handful to subscribe to for a fuller picture.
It’ll happen here too; over time things will evolve and settle into a pattern.
As for the caring part - caring comes across in how we choose to interact with each other on here; the way we do that will strongly influence the way these communities grow and change over time.
So. We can influence how things will be. No individual person or entity will ever be in complete control. So it goes.
I think you've lost some perspective here. You asked a simple question, and people explained how it works.
Do you want to group all the communities together? Take it up with the W3C Social Web Working Group, who own the standard for ActivityPub. It's a group of people, make your concerns known and maybe they'll agree with you and change it. I don't think they will, because I don't agree that this is a problem that needs to be solved, but I'm not part of that group, so I guess that doesn't matter.
In the meantime, why are you reacting like this to the helpful people who answered your question?