Communism @lemmygrad.ml big_spoon @lemmygrad.ml 2y ago

the dprk question

something that puzzles me about reactionaries speaking about north korea or any communist country, is the idea that they have a dictatorship so powerful that people aren't able to fight against it, movies and spectacles accused as "staged" or "if he/she fails he/she will die with his/her family". the typical idea of enemies "being weak and uberstrong at the same time", like damn...if people in dprk were under a dictatorship so brutal as they say, you would hear more about uprisings and strikes more frequently than in USA, are you trying to tell me that the only "efficient dictatorships" are the communist ones? that capitalism isn't able to keep people like pinochet or hitler more than a couple of decades and with constant revolts and a huge media industry? ok...

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Are you using facts and logic?? TANKIE! I FOUND A TANKIE!!
It seems like you assume there is a direct relationship between how brutal a dictatorship is and how often people revolt, but I don't see why that would be the case.

An important factor in how people resist their government is the risk/reward of doing so. Do they understand that revolt can create change? Do they fear for their lives?

My understanding is that in North Korea, it is very likely that speaking out against the government will result in years or decades of jail time. Information there is also tightly controlled, so people do not believe such action would be productive anyway. I think a person would not want to revolt given those conditions, even if they are not happy with their government.

Simply put, they do not know things can be better, and they wouldn't know how to make them better if they did.
- An important factor in how people resist their government is the risk/reward of doing so. Do they understand that revolt can create change? Do they fear for their lives?
  
  well...maybe we should ask the russians in 1917, or people under pinochet, cubans under batista et al
  
  I would argue the people in every case you just listed were far more aware of the reward of revolt, which is half the equation. All of those dictatorships had existed for less than 15 years before another revolution or similar event had taken place. The people remembered a better life.
  
  North Korea has some of the most effective information control seen this century, and their government has held uninterrupted power spanning 50 years. They are arguably the single most extreme case in modern history of a population that is ill-equipped to revolt.
- Simply put, they do not know things can be better, and they wouldn’t know how to make them better if they did.
  
  This sounds like the White Man's Burden. The people who live in DPRK are well-equipped to know what makes a happy and healthy life. They're not any more brainwashed/blindly obedient to "the party" than people in the West are.
  
  The people who live in DPRK are well-equipped to know what makes a happy and healthy life.
  
  What a strangely intentional choice of words. I was talking about their awareness of how their government could/does treat them. You've changed the subject to their awareness of...happiness and health?
  
  Part of living a happy life is not living in fear of your government. To deny that North Koreans live in fear of their government is to basically ignore all of the information we have from the people who lived there.
Look at all these clowns.
lmao I really don't think the DPRK reports honestly about the amount of uprisings they squash. And their citizens are scared to fight back because they know better than anyone of their government's ruthless nature. Protests are a symbol that one has freedom to protest.
- so...DPRK army is BETTER than the US army? it sounds kinda embarrasing that an army fueled by imperialism and "civilized first world" is shadowed by an army of a "poor communist s**thole" in the ability to squash their own rebels
  
  You missed the last part about freedom to protest. Protest in DPRK and you get injured or imprisoned. Protest in the USA and you get made fun of.
  
  But yeah that doesn't matter to you cause you're obviously arguing in bad faith so go back to your little hole. And don't quote people on things they didn't say.
- The US reports blatant lies constantly about DPRK, you think they wouldn’t be showing that shit EVERYWHERE every time one was squashed if it was happening all the time?
  
  Of course they would.
Dprk apologia? Really? I knew y'all had problems but this is further than I thought it went
- I know, right? What kind of monster supports necromancy?
- They're evil baddies! We shouldn't learn about them! Learning things is evil! Like them! Better to just trust everything we are told about the evil enemy. Life is much easier when someone else tells me who is bad and who is good and I don't ever question why they tell me things, or what they aren't telling me.
  
  So...I did learn about them. I learned pretty much everything I could. Watched documentaries from many sources, interviews with escaped citizens, documents/images describing conditions and infrastructure, etc. Very little information comes out of the country, but I consumed everything I could find.
  
  My conclusion? North Korea's government really is pretty cartoonishly evil. I've followed the stories of many governments, and they seem to be just about the worst.
  
  So...why and how are you so convinced they're not? Have you actually seen any evidence, even circumstantial? If you have, I'd love to see it. If North Korea was really actually fine and the west is just lying about it, that would be fascinating.
Posts headline that says singer they thought was executed is actually still alive without links to any sort of article. When you go to find the article, you realize that a dozen musicians were rounded up and executed, it's just that SHE wasn't one of them as it was rumored. Who's spreading propaganda?

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