World News @lemmy.world spaduf @slrpnk.net 9mo ago

How an Israeli raid freed 4 hostages and killed scores of Palestinians in Gaza

apnews.com How an Israeli raid freed 4 hostages and killed at least 274 Palestinians in Gaza

Based on previous operations, at least some of the special forces who took part in the raid likely dressed like Palestinians and spoke fluent Arabic.

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"By the time it was over, four Israeli hostages had been brought home alive and mostly unscathed, at least physically, and at least 274 Palestinians, and an Israeli commando, had been killed."

Holy shit. What a clusterfuck.
Literally hundreds of civilians killed to rescue 4 hostages. I don't know what happened but I can guarantee we will be hearing more about it.

Not a huge fan of the title but this is breaking news and I think the AP can be trusted to at least get the basics right.
- I don't see a problem with the title. That's literally what happened. It makes no judgments.
  
  Why are we still using the word "scores"
  
  Edit for the haters: go ask someone tomorrow how much a "score" is. Most people would have to look it up, which makes it inappropriate for a headline where "hundreds" is more appropriate.
  
  I think it feels reminiscent of an explainer and that kind of gives me the ick. Maybe I'm being silly though
- I can guarantee we will be hearing more about it.
  
  Huh? Ratios of 300 innocents per 1 terrorists killed are now the norm and we are definitely not hearing more about. It gets buried by the next "accident" where by "accident" destroy a hospital/school/refugee camp full of people
- How many people would you be willing to let the military kill to rescue your child who had been taken hostage?
  
  My answer is "anyone who gets in the way"
  
  Let's take it to an extreme. By this logic, you'd be okay with killing everyone on earth to rescue your child. This includes me and my children. This is insane.
  
  To answer directly I wouldn't be okay with the military killing hundreds of civilians to save anyone of my family, myself included. Not sure where my number is but it's at least an order of magnitude lower.
  
  And now imagine you were on the opposite side. How would you feel if someone kills your child, in the pursuit of saving their own? Would you still be so cool?
And quite possibly killed three more hostages in the action. Hamas is claiming it and the IDF is denying it. But considering that the four hostages saved were being held in the same place as one of the higher ups, if the IDF has just been bombing every other family home of Hamas members (remember the Where's Daddy AI system?), then it seems quite likely they could kill hostages in the process.
Fuck Hamas for keeping hostages in a refugee camp, though
- Yes fuck Hamas, but where else do you keep them? Not like they've got equipped POW camps or secure bunkers.
This is the best summary I could come up with:

KHAN YOUNIS, Gaza Strip (AP) — They arrived in the middle of the day, when the squat concrete buildings of the Nuseirat refugee camp are stifling and the narrow streets outside are filled with people.

Hagari declined to say how the Israeli forces made their way to the heart of Nuseirat, a crowded, built-up refugee camp in central Gaza dating back to the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.

Chief Inspector Arnon Zamora, an officer in an elite police commando unit, was mortally wounded during the break-in, in which all the Hamas guards were killed, Amos Harel, a veteran defense correspondent, wrote in Israel’s Haaretz newspaper.

Palestinian militants armed with machine-guns and rocket-propelled grenades opened fire on the rescuers, as Israel called in heavy strikes from land and air to cover their evacuation to the coast.

Mohamed al-Habash, another displaced Palestinian, was in the Nuseirat market looking for humanitarian aid or inexpensive food when the heavy bombing began.

At the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in the nearby town of Deir al-Balah, the dead and wounded arrived in waves — men, women and children.

The original article contains 1,067 words, the summary contains 179 words. Saved 83%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
hamas should have just surrendered and none of these innocents have to die.

this is on hamas.
- It's this simple. If a single innocent child is between you and your military target, and you kill the child to get to the target, then you're a villain. Are you as much of a villain as the person you killed? Perhaps not. But are you a villain? Yes.
  
  You are correct, everyone is a villain at that point. The problem with that, as horrible this is, is it incentivizes the action. For the same reason countries don't negotiate with terrorists. If you prove that committing terrorist acts, or taking hostages, or using children as human shields works, you positively reinforce those acts. Its fucked up beyond belief, and all alternatives need to be exhausted, but at some level someone takes the responsibility for where the lines are drawn for the least damage in the long run.
  
  Is it actually preferable to just give money to anyone who hijacks a bus load of people, or a plane, or a bank, etc, so that no hostages are possibly injured when that happens? It might be, and could be argued for. Is such acts becoming more frequent or commonplace because it works an acceptable price weight against innocent human life? Again, it very well might be. It's only money. I am glad I am not the one making those decisions, but we can't pretend that the calculus doesn't happen and/or doesn't matter.
  
  nah,it's simpler, hamas shouldn't be using children as shield like a coward and take what's coming for them like the man they claimed they were.
  
  villian i may be,coward i am not.
- They want innocent people to die, it's how they get people on their side. They need it for propaganda.
  
  Yes, Hamas is shitty and I've never seen a single person defend them.
  
  Their actions do not ever justify the killing of innocent people and civilians. What's so nasty about this war is the massive numbers of innocent deaths.
  
  In this operation they saved FOUR people at the literal cost of hundreds of innocent men, women, and children. How can anyone defend this? It's simply unconscionable.
- They have been ready to give all the hostige back if Israel givs theres back and stops commuting genocide. But the declined over 10 times
  
  lol,hamas condition for ceasefire basically is such that no sane person will ever agree to it.
  
  besides,there isn't even a need for all these had hamas not decide to commit mass murders on Oct 7th.
- This is on the IDF. No one is forcing them to attack so indiscriminately.
  
  hamas basically is.
- Talk about stating the obvious, , ,
I am still surprised by how people get (understandably) outraged at the IDF online but seem to forget that Hamas took those hostages in the first place. A lot of this bloodshed could be stopped right now if Hamas released them.

Sure, the Israeli government is fucking insane, but there are two sides fighting this war.
- Fuck me for expecting the non terrorist to have better standards?
- You seem to forget that israel took hostages in the first place and the reason Hamas kidnapped people is literally to swap them for the hostages kidnapped by israel.
  
  That's my point here, blaming just one side makes no sense. Both sides have been committing atrocities for decades.
- I don't see Hamas as a "side". I see them as evil fucking terrorists willing to use their own people as shields.
  
  How many times have we seen this, though? People take human shields all the time in and outside of wars. The answer is never to ignore the shields. Those are fucking people.
  
  Both sides are fucking monsters in this conflict... But Israel is emphatically more successful at killing civilians. It's literally a fact at this stage, with mountains of evidence.
- Also the IDF was fired upon when they raided. That makes this just war. Hamas chose the war zone.
  
  Also ~~the IDF~~ Hamas was fired upon when they raided in October. That makes this just war. ~~Hamas~~ Israel chose the war zone.
  
  Swap the word Hamas with israel every time you think there's a great argument to post. Helps to avoid advocating for the murder of civilians like some crazy extremist.

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