A bit late

People's safety is more important than people's feelings.
- Indeed. It strikes me as pointlessly gendered. All people, safety is more important than feelings.
  
  ~~you know what else is pointlessly gendered? the patriarchy~~
  feminist messaging has to be gendered because the patriarchy is a gender issue.
  that said, feminism is for everybody. liberating women from oppressive structures by nature does the same for men.
  
  If this weren't gendered I'm not sure I would connect that this was posted as result of people's reaction to the bears vs men thing.
  
  The whole thing was meant to be rage bait.
- Physical safety or psychological safety?
- Are you really all lives mattering this post rn? God damn dude. I hope every person in your life belittles every problem you personally have by telling you that tons of people have that problem.
  
  BLM, no sarcasm.
- That gives me feelings of "All lives matter" which minimized the issues of black people. Can you explain why this is different?
  
  Except one has built in meaning and the other is a simple meme made by one person with an oversimplified idea used likely to stir up people considering all the discussions happening about bears or whatever.
  
  BLM, no sarcasm.
  
  It's not, this tread is filled with Incels.
- And all lives matter, right? How else can we commandeer this conversation?
  
  BLM, no sarcasm.
- all lives matter amirite /s
  
  BLM, no sarcasm.

~~I have some extra emotional capacity today so~~ (see edit*) I'll post some wrong think: but can we stop antagonizing populations that feel disenfranchised by society and therefor giving the truly evil fucks out there an easy population to brainwash and feed extra scummy ideologies to?
Young nerdy men who feel excluded from society that dont have any strong female figures in their life are barraged by a constant stream of messaging that could easily be interpreted as "(white) men are evil and the source of all problems with society"
By constantly antagonizing them for not being able to navigate the political nuance of those messages, we give an incredibly easy pathway to the more toxic ideologies that the Tates of the world will pull them into to profit off of them, because they are the only figures who will give them praise and a sense of belonging.
Edit: Its a new day now, and I no longer have the energy. If you want to vent, understanding that venting in this manner will bring about little to no positive change, you do you, I will no longer be responding
- yeah this pretty much.
  Polarized speech does nothing for anybody. If woman are talking about this bear thing to make a point, i feel like we would be better off actually making sure that people understood that it was about making a point, rather than a literal fucking interpretation of the problem
  but no, funny internet points are more important, capitalism ruins everything it fucking touches.
  
  But many do just that, then you focus on the ones that don't, every cycle. Over and over. You choose what to focus on. Not we as a society, literally you. You choose to engage with that negative part of it and continue to. Nobody is forcing you
  
  These kinds of things are great for letting off steam with friends, but absolutely TERRIBLE at getting a point across to people who dont already know said point
- This is so extremely well put.
  You do help by expressing things so succinctly
- Man are not evil and I don't think anyone is making that statement here, but the problem is that we can't know which men are evil. Of course we should avoid antagonizing them, since, like you said, it often drives young lonely men towards the manosphere, but also men should try actually listening to why most women pick the bear.
  
  I mean yeah, that was my point. Currently though our messaging is insanely antagonistic and there are a LOT of men without women in their lives who can explain this to them. People dont listen to those antagonizing them, the throw their shields/walls up, and seek those who are friendlier to them, which, in this case would be the manpsphere, posts like this only preach to the choir, and push away the men who need to know why women would choose the bear the most.
  
  I used to actively avoid women out of fear of making them uncomfortable (still do occasionally, when I have a particularly shitty day), I mean like full on 0 eye contact, lotsa distance and god forbid speaking. Being tolled I'm too fucking stupid to understand female issues and tolled that I have it so easy because I can be a literal pig without getting judged did a number on my brain. I mean I get it, women have it much harder, but being completely pushed aside and forced to associate with literal trash, all my efforts made worthless just because women have to put in much more effort, while I only chose to do a bit more. It hurts. When a girl is freaked out and starts running, because I'm taking a similar route to her's (because I just happened to live in the same direction), I understand her reaction, but it doesn't change the fact that it makes me wish I didn't exist, if my fucking existence is a problem in it self. It's shit like this that makes me wish I was at least trans or something, not born a fucking bogeyman that hurts people by breathing the same air as them.
  
  but the problem is that we can’t know which men are evil.
  It's very much possible with these things called emotional intelligence and empathy. Used in combination they allow you to walk in another's shoes for just a split second and see where their mind is.
- can we stop antagonizing populations that feel disenfranchised by society and therefor giving the truly evil fucks out there an easy population to brainwash and feed extra scummy ideologies to?
  Young nerdy men who feel excluded from society that dont have any strong female figures in their life are barraged by a constant stream of messaging that could easily be interpreted as “(white) men are evil and the source of all problems with society”
  I think it's a two-pronged problem.
  Young men are encouraged to be aggressive, thin-skinned, and superficial. They're sold this idea of sex as a reward for climbing to the top of some nebulously defined social hierarchy rather than an expression of intimacy with a romantic partner.
  Meanwhile, young women are victims of the Madonna/removed complex, simultaneously expected to be sexual and virginal, model-esque and down-to-earth, your plaything and your mom. They're this thing men are expected to fight over, but also personally responsible for the drama created by this social expectation.
  And so much of this engineered conflict revolves around selling you something. Gym memberships or diet supplements or fashion accessories or self-help classes or luxury status symbols are all supposed to be a thing we can buy into in order to climb the ladder to an ideal romantic life. All to commodify the idea of love.
  By constantly antagonizing them for not being able to navigate the political nuance of those messages, we give an incredibly easy pathway to the more toxic ideologies that the Tates of the world will pull them into to profit off of them
  Guys like Andrew Tate are ultimately just bullies. And bullying is a tool that one class of people use to force the others to conform and submit. So much of this boils down to Tate inducting new members of his cult of personality by sending older members out to jump them in.
  The only real remedy is to shut these guys down. Stand together. Stick up for your friends and neighbors in the face of fascist bullying. Push back.
- Also known as: can we please stop pushing people into evil echo chambers by "moderating" them through auto ban because opinion we don't like? Its not only men vs women, it applies to anything slightly divisive.
  We wouldn't need the super thick skin that is needed now if we hadn't banned all the people back in the day for merely disagreeing. They went to more evil places and now, consequently, are more evil. We are kinda reaping what we sowed
- Don't forget the other side, I've seen some of the discussions around this by women turn really TERFy. Both sides of this debate are gateways to the Alt right.
  
  Tbh the TERF stuff isnt surprising since a lot of these memes have just a hint of Misandry to them, and when it comes to TERFs, they dont see Trans Women as women, and see them as men, so its moreso their ideas on men that are guiding their ideology, than it is about women
- I wanted to post something like this but could not write it well. Thanks for posting it.
  
  Yeah, thats why I posted this. I'm having a good day today, and so I was able to find the words that others who've been affected by the bear meme struggled to find the words to. If I get some flak for it, I have the emotional space to explain my reasoning
- This right here is the reason I still bother to engage people on this topic. The women who honestly believe a bear is less threatening than a random man are a lost cause imo, so my goal is to help men find supportive people and spaces that aren't dangerous idiots like Tate.
  You can be a man without being forced to exist in the manufactured redpill/male feminist dichotomy.
  
  I am a man and I am affected 0% by this meme. This meme was a chance to display some empathy and understand why it might be that the bear analogy strikes a chord with many women.
  When I go to the grocery store, do I have to think about being snatched? My privilege affords me the convenience of not worrying about that. Do I need to worry about being sexually assaulted walking home? Statistically, probably not. There are a whole host of problems and horrific fates that befall women disproportionately, and very often at the hands of men.
  Why would a woman feel safer with a bear?
  The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear.
  Most attacks by black bears are defensive reactions to a person who is too close, which is an easy situation to avoid. Injuries from these defensive reactions are usually minor.
  https://bear.org/bear-facts/how-dangerous-are-black-bears
  Since 1784 there have been 82 fatal human/bear conflicts by wild brown bears in North America. Yellowstone National Park has seen a mere 8 since being established in 1872, which is only one more than the number of people who have died from a falling tree.
  https://bearvault.com/bear-attack-statistics/
  Seems to me that even I would be safer with a bear than a man. Makes you think, doesn't it?
- This is not antagonizing men. This is important data for men. Do you want to get laid? Understand where women are coming from. Don't do spooky shit on dates.
  Listen, I understand. It's bad news, but it is what it is. It's reality. It's like women saying if you never take a shower or bath in your entire life, a relationship is out of the question.
  
  The fact that you are trying to pass this off as a way to get laid is honestly disgusting

Downvoted not because it isn't true, but because they aren't automatically mutually exclusive and because it is an unnecessary jab at half of the human species. Why are we paying attention to divisive bullshit instead of focusing on things that actually have the potential to help?
- "I realized men are evil, masculinity is toxic, these are statements of truth and the only ones who deny this shit are cis men themselves." - CheesyCheese1 This thread
  ☝️ Top comment when i got here. This issue brings out as many misandrists as it does misogynists.
  Even my gf who wasn't aware of this meme picked the bear vs a random man when i asked her, so obviously there is a problem. But in reality i don't give a shit if some rando woman would prefer a bear over me in the woods, whatever makes her feel safer i guess. I do care about being tarred with the rape brush though, and this topic is being used to attack all men rather than just the problem ones.
- Because the solution to women getting assaulted is to make men think about their actions. The post wasn't anymore divisive than the average black twitter meme. It was a simple tongue in cheek piece about how women have the impossible task of figuring out if a man is going to be their life partner or their rapist & murderer.
  
  to make men think about their actions
  Do you not understand that, as a very straight man, I've never once even thought about hurting a woman?
  It's absolutely divisive. Stop.
  
  "Hey, would you rather be alone with a bear or a man?"
  "A bear. And you should think about what you've done." "... Huh? "

I'm a woman and the same way that women feel about men in this whole meme thing, is the exact same way I feel about women...
I don't trust women within a hairs inch of my life and I would rather be with a bear than a Woman but I bet you I'll get super downvoted for this opinion.
- My wife shares the same opinion. It’s not something she can discuss in her social circles, but she feels like she’s been backstabbed in more awful ways by her fellow women.
  When she gets in that pattern, I try to remind her that people tend to suck and you have to be choosy regardless of gender.
  
  I hear you, but as a dude, I feel like there's significantly more risk of bodily harm from men than than women. This doesn't mean women are Nice, just less likely to try to rape or murder someone in an alley :(
- dsfgasfsaf
  
  Nope I definitely trust men more than I trust women. I don't know what part of what I said sounds like that when I said I don't trust women, not people.
- I feel like with men it’s usually more physical and with women it’s more social/mental. And physical is way easier to document and make stats out of
  
  What are we comparing here? Cyberbullying to r*pe? Social exclusion to being thrown down the stairs? Not sure if you're attempting to draw equivalences or minimize physical harm but that is how I read this
- I've never been downvoted anywhere for expressing that opinion. Lemmy especially there's a huge disparity where saying you'd rather be with a bear than a man is unacceptable, but saying you'd rather be with a bear than a woman? A-okay. Source? I've said both. Only one was I not attacked for. Guess which?
  Seriously, I've expressed my trauma regarding men countless times and every time been attacked for it. I've expressed my trauma at the hands of women and not a single downvote or attack or disparaging remark any time. Lemmy has a very clear bias.
  I wouldn't have a single problem with men getting upset about this bear thing if they got equally upset when somebody says something similar or worse about women, but they don't.
  
  It's because nobody wants to talk about trauma at the hands of women.. everybody goes extremely, extremely quiet when the topic of the capable violence of women enters the room. I have a personal feeling, as a woman, that if we talk about all of the tools and tricks and things that women do to manipulate and abuse, less women will get away with it, and women don't want that, so they stay silent in order to enable basically a fucking gang, operating with impunity, in a way as a woman, I kind of feel held hostage at the sleepover if you know what I mean..
- With a bear, really ?

The thing is, I've seen statements like this before. Except when I heard it, it was being used to justify ignoring women's experiences and feelings in regard to things like sexual harassment and feeling unsafe, since that's "just a feeling" as well. It wasn't okay then, and it's not okay the other way around. The truth is that feelings do matter, on both sides. Everyone should feel safe and welcome in their surroundings. And how much so that is, is reflected in how those people feel.
The outcome of men feeling being respected and women feeling safe are not mutually exclusive. The sad part is that someone who is reading this here is far more likely to be an ally than a foe, yet the people who need to hear the intended message the most will most likely never hear it nor be bothered by it. There's a stick being wedged here that is only meant to divide, and oh my god is it working.
The original post about bears has completely lost all meaning and any semblance of discussion is lost because the metaphor is inflammatory by design - sometimes that's a good thing, to highlight through absurdity. But metaphors are fragile - if it's very likely to be misunderstood or offensive, the message is lost in emotion. Personally I think this metaphor is just highly ineffective at getting the message across, as it has driven people who would stand by the original message to the other side due to the many uncharitable interpretations it presents. And among the crowd of reasonable people are those who confirm those interpretations and muddy the water to make women seem like misandrists, and men like sexual assault deniers. This meme is simply terrible and perhaps we can move on to a better version of it that actually gets the message across well, instead of getting people at each other's throat.
- Honestly I am so goddamn tired of this shit, everytime something like the bear question comes up it blatantly tilted in one side or the others favor and dissent is crushed in both sets of spaces and no one learns anything.
- You're right, feelings do matter, and this post did not dispute that. It's just that safety matters more.
  It saddens me that the default interpretation of this is accusatory and requiring of defense. Not to personally blame you, this is very common and clearly a systemic reaction, but I don't know enough psychology/politics/sociology to understand why, just enough to know it's bad.
  
  It saddens me that the default interpretation of this is accusatory
  It’s saying men are inherently unsafe to be around. How is that not accusatory?
  This isn’t about women’s safety versus men’s feelings, it’s about women’s feelings (of safety) versus men’s feelings (of respect).
- Yes, feelings matter. Beautifully put.
  But nobody is purposefully "wedging a stick" between allies and enemies. No secret society is plotting to prevent you from sending any message of safety. The metaphor is not designed, or created for a specific purpose. You have to realise how crazy and for real dangerous this way of agumenting is.
  You aim for a good purpose, then use basically the debate version of biological weapons of mass destruction to make your point.
  Just for any small argument about a small thing between sexes, like always it's fun for people to discuss, and some get mad, but
  For you to use the narrative of psy ops, learned no doubt subconsciously, to speak like there is a secret cabal that want you to be fearful, we must unite against some kind of expression just because they are coming for you.. No
  If anyone takes it too far it's talk like that, and you unironically talk about how reasonable people are hard to come by
  Gee
  Wonder why that is brother
  
  But nobody is purposefully “wedging a stick” between allies and enemies.
  The purpose of a system is what it does.

However, women’s feelings does not equal women’s safety.
- but safety is to some degree also derived from feelings, because human psychology for some reason.
  There is no winning here, i think.
  
  The perception of safety, maybe. But not actual safety. It's an important distinction.

So, we should generalize entire groups of people to teach them a lesson. No matter their feelings or the fact that the majority of people in said group are just living their lives. A bunch of bad apples should make and entire group socially responsible.
Got it. 👍
Yes there are too many men who think they live in the 50s and can do whatever they want to woman. If you say ALL men are like that, you're invalidating the effort of most men trying to be better human beings while being assholes.
If you can't understand that. You are not looking to make things better, just to throw hate around.

How many female teachers have been caught fucking their barely pubescent students this year alone so far?
It isn't a men-women problem. People just suck.
- Yes, but divided people == profit?
- I don't disagree that both men and women do heinous things, but women ~~don't~~ almost never physically attack or kill a man when he shuns her advances, but men absolutely attack women every day for shunning a man's advances, and sometimes women get straight up murdered for it.
  #NotAllMen, but enough men that many women choose the bear.
  
  men absolutely attack women every day for shunning a man’s advances
  This is a completely weightless statement, considering that it's true if as few as 365 men a year do this, out of ~4,000,000,000. In other words, 0.000009125%.
  Pretty low bar for shitting on half the world, no?
- Statistically the disparity is significant.
  
  It's a drastic disparity. Men do 80%+ of violent crime, 95% of murders, and 95% of sexual violence, with the caveat that we know, for sure, is severely under reported.
- Do we need to start throwing out the stats for how many rapist are men compared to women?
  Spoiler alert, most rapist are men and it's not even close.
  
  Highly unreported numbers when it comes to female rapists, so your numbers might be skewed
  
  Do we need to start throwing out the stats for how many rapist are men compared to women?
  Sure, just as long as you define rape in such a way that female-on-male rape actually counts as rape, which it doesn't in the vast majority of "rape statistics" that get put out. Quote http://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers :
  And now the real surprise: when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011). In other words, if being made to penetrate someone was counted as rape—and why shouldn’t it be?—then the headlines could have focused on a truly sensational CDC finding: that women rape men as often as men rape women.
  
  Yeah, those are very helpful, minority victims don't deserve help as we all know.
- Would you rather be in the wood with a bear rather than a woman because you fear she could rape you? No? Then what the fuck are you even talking about?

I'm a woman (a trans one if that matters to you) and have experienced sexual assault and domestic violence from both men and women.
I know the point that people are trying to make with the whole bear thing.
But I think the friction comes from women talk about this as a theoretical to make a point, where men are thinking more literally.
And I do belive that no one in there right mind, if actually given this option in real life, would pick a bear (unless maybe it was definitely one of the more harmless species).
Each and every one of us, even those of us that have survived SA, have had countless uneventful interactions with men you don't know. Even when it's just one on one. And its mostly normal biases that makes us remember the shitty ones more. And something a lot of people forget is that the vast majority of SA victims already know their assailant, so the idea of a rando assaulting you is even less likely. So yes I would much rather be in the woods with a man, than a wild fucking animal. And if you're a reasonable person, then you would too.
- Honestly I think it depends more on the guy than the bear. Any time you're alone in the woods (at least in the US) it's safe to assume you're with a bear, that's where they live. Most bears keep to themselves though.
  People tend to be less low-key, and less predictable. To me it seems more likely that a random guy could follow you around, take your stuff, or generally make life more difficult. There's also a higher chance for a guy to assist you and make things easier, but I can understand how the potential risk could outweigh the potential benefits.
  
  Nono you're not allowed to judge the man individually. You're required to judge before you see both the man and bear so that we get a properly over-essentialised judgement how else are we going to propagate in- / out-group divisions.
- As a trans woman who has also been sexually assaulted, it has more to do for me with what danger is more real to me. I've experienced zero bear attacks. Nobody I know has experienced a bear attack. Why would I fear one? Of course, consciously yeah, I know a bear is dangerous, but I have no real world experience to back that assumption up.
  Men though? Yeah, I've been sexually assaulted by men. I've been physically assaulted by men. I've had family and friends who've been physically and sexually assaulted by men. That danger is real to me. I know that if a man I don't know is nearby me he could do those things to me, and I have the real world experience to prove that assumption correct (the assumption that they could, not the assumption that they would.)
  Therefore, of course I'm more scared of the man than the bear. And of course I'd choose the bear over the man. I don't care if it's the wrong choice, I'll take my chances to not have to relive that trauma, even if it means risking my life. Not like I'll have time to regret that decision if the bear decides to kill me. Probably. And most women I know when asked expressed the same sentiment in different words. We're more scared of men than bears, but that doesn't mean we literally think men are more dangerous than bears.
  Is it the logical choice to pick the bear? Probably not, but humans are not logical creatures. I'd rather make the wrong choice than the scary choice.
  
  I’d rather make the wrong choice than the scary choice.
  Unrelated to the topic, but this mindset is exactly why far-right movements are getting so strong right now.
  
  I've never been shot or held at gunpoint, but I have have the shit kicked out of me. But still if given the option to face a person with a gun and a person with the bare hands. I don't think I'm going to pick the the guy with a gun.
- Most bears would just walk away from you when you make a loud noise. Men would approach you. So even I as a man, would pick a bear

This whole thing is bait.
Anyone engaging on any side of the debate are fools. Any topic antagonizing half the population will somehow stir up some noise.
It's like saying all women are bad at sport because they don't train hard enough. It's ignorant and serves only the purpose of creating a divide in the population.
Stop engaging in the divide.

You spelled it wrong, the sign should say "Safety is more important than feelings"
- elaborate?
  
  Everyone's safety is more important than anyone's feelings.
- This is specifically about the bear meme though. Way too many men feel personally attacked by women not feeling safe around men they don't know. Instead of thinking about why that is the men cry and attack the women.
- Why? The sign seems fine to me.
  
  Because thereal's version is welcoming and non discriminatory, and the meme is antagonistic by design

Not sure what else this meme is doing other than actively creating a bigger divide between the genders...
- Maybe a divide for you, my SO says she'd pick the bear if it wasn't me. And I don't blame her.
  Instead of arguing the merits of this debate, maybe its worth analyzing your own merits. Men (individually but amongst their peers) should be ashamed that women typically seem to want to pick a bear over themselves, instead of falling further into the rut that pushes everyone - not just women - away from their social circles and friend.
  Someone tells you they'd rather be getting mauled by a bear? Take the hint. The divide exists within your head, make friends, be kind, and you'll find happiness
  Edited for individuals to contextualize on their peers instead of generically
  Edit edit, I mean go ahead, be reactionary
  
  Men should be ashamed that women typically seem to want to pick a bear over themselves
  Shame is an individual thing. Men, plural, is a whole bunch of people. Why should I be ashamed for the actions of people that aren't me?
  ...and just to be clear here: I'm not even arguing that we shouldn't battle this one out between the genders. But collective punishment is against the Geneva convention and I really don't like to stay quiet when people commit war crimes.
  
  Excuse me?!
  The fuck should I be ashamed for?
  Why am I responsible for the actions of other men?
  Go have your fucking guilt trip if you want to but don't include me.

Yes, this is the correct take.
The bear meme is meant to make men uncomfortable and surprised by how they are seen as a generalization among women. It isn't meant to be anti-men or anything, it's just meant to show the lived experience of women to men in a hypothetical absurdity.
- The cure to sexism is definitely more sexism.
  
  What part is sexist? There can be no equality if uncomfortable realities are brushed aside, illuminating the very real lived experience that women are constantly wary of the average man allows us to confront said issue. Telling women that they are "wrong" and just need to feel different about the issue just perpetuates this distrust.
  Listen to women.

I'm out of the loop on the bear situation, what happened?
- Something about would you feel safer being stalked by a creepy dude or being stalked by a bear in the woods. Both could equally kill you, just one is more likely than the other to actually kill you.
  
  Close, but it's just "would you rather" with any random man in the woods vs a random bear. No implied creepiness on the man's part. Just who would you feel more safe knowing one of the two is in the woods.

When people justify racism with statistics: That's stupid and you're a bigot
When people justify sexism with statistics: Only one side's feelings matter! I'm going to post this divisive meme everywhere!1!
Edit Sexists know how to downvote, but not present a logical argument.
- Stay tuned for the next "men suck" cycle: 'toxic masculinity is bad you should express your feelings instead of bottling them', more after the break
  
  This rage bait is so old the Simpsons parodied it:
  "Today's topic..."

It's so tiring seeing the men coming in and deliberately misunderstanding what's being discussed. They will do literally anything, appear dumb as rocks, to not recognize rape culture and admit potentially any fault or responsibility towards it's continued existence. They take everything personally instead of being able to see that societal problems there are also responsible for helping to fix.
- Are we also going to tolerate the same with Islam and terrorism? POC and safety because "crime statistics"? If those are not acceptable because it's not anyone's individual responsibility for others in an involuntarily assigned group, why is this ok?
  
  Same arguments, still wrong. Fuck off misogynist.
- Here's the problem with that statement. I agree that there is a problem with men committing rape. However, I (along with most men) have never raped anybody. Furthermore I have not done anything to perpetuate the actions of the minority of men who do commit sex crimes. Therefore I do NOT take responsibility or admit fault for their actions. Saying that men as a whole are the problem is offensive and unhelpful. It's how random peaceful Muslims feel when conservatives tell them they need to take responsibility for the actions of terrorists and take action to stop terrorists "in their community" like all Muslims are in one big group chat. I would straight up give my life to prevent a woman I don't know from being raped. Idk what more you want from me.
  
  the difference is that the patriarchy exists and favors men. there is no systematic structure that puts Muslims above others, at the expense of others, in a way that is parallel to what the patriarchy does.
  i get what you are saying, and maybe not too long ago i was professing quite similar feelings, but i encourage you to self interrogate how big of a difference that is. truly hope this is helpful.
- this comment section has been so enlightening about the makeup of this side of the fediverse. and all i can say is i am so sorry. i always guessed it was a male-heavy makeup but i never thought it would precipitate this badly.
  this community usually veers leftist and toward respecting human dignity, but it appears as soon as women express the pain and fear that is forced upon them for merely existing all of that is lost and their comments are getting 30/70 downvoted, even in conversations where folks have already acknowledged the caveat of the importance of non-alienating.
  it’s clear there is a lot of work to be done when one of the most progressive communities i have ever followed is so packed with malinformed spite as soon as the subject comes to humans asking for the basic privilege of safety.
  
  Agreed and well said. It's very disheartening. For me it's just another example of how pervasive and ingrained the patriarchy and misogyny is.

Men's mental health is more important than women's feelings.