Euro bottles are so much better now
I know they're supposed to be good for the environment but... God I hate those caps.
I know they're supposed to be good for the environment but... God I hate those caps.
Yes I hate them as well, they always get in the way and putting the cap back on is super annoying.
However, since these bottles were introduced data has shown they work. Bottle caps were one of the most found items in trash picked up from the streets. The number of bottle caps has gone way down since these were introduced.
So I've accepted them. Can't argue with data. I've never returned a bottle without a cap in my life. I've never thrown away a cap separate from the bottle. But turns out the world is full of psychopaths who throw the cap in the street. Probably the same kind of person who throws their trash by the side of the road from their car. Fuck those people.
Can you link the source of the data? I wondered, if this actually helps at all.
https://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/handle/JRC108181
Most relevant here is that they found significantly more caps than bottles, indicating that they get lost. Also lots of other single-use plastics there practically everything that can be avoided has been hit by the banhammer. Oh, cigarette butts I'd expect them to mandate those to be biodegradable in the future.
Things such as fibres from fishing nets and unidentifiable pieces of polystyrene and stuff of course don't get addressed by this, but that's not the point the point is to do what can be done.
One of the most important ones is this one: https://joint-research-centre.ec.europa.eu/jrc-news-and-updates/stemming-tide-beach-litter-2018-09-25_en
This was the basis for the decision to mandate the caps be attached to the bottles, since they found a lot of caps and less bottles. This would indicate a lot of caps get separated from their bottles, which this change should mostly fix.
The other was an interview with this guy: https://zwerfinator.nl/ I can't find the interview, no idea why, but he hasn't published the results yet (no idea why, it was scheduled to be published I think, but somehow got delayed). They were saying the new pfands really helped and the number of bottle caps have gone down. But this is highly depended on the location. For example a lot of research is focused on beaches, where there is obviously often a large delay between the deposition and the collection. In city centers this time is often much shorter, so the impact of changes are seen faster.
So sorry to disappoint, it's too soon for a peer reviewed study diving into this. Also with all the other changes the EU has mandated on litter and single use plastics, it would be hard to quantify which implementation has what effect.
But my thinking was: There is for me good data showing this is an issue (which I was doubting) and the solution seems solid enough. Other changes like pfands on small bottles and cans have made a big impact (research is available for this, for example https://open.overheid.nl/documenten/ronl-8b11214f23388b3395402609d76286475b4f2908/pdf). And the people doing the research say they've seen results that it works. So that was enough to convince me.
If somehow the caps being attached doesn't lead to less caps in litter, that would be a very interesting result. Without a doubt the EU would change the regulation to fix it, depending on why they think the change didn't work. But this would not lead to the caps being like they were in the past.
I can't find it on mobile right now. It was a preliminary result, because the attached caps haven't been required that long. Also most countries have implemented extra pfand systems for small plastic bottles, which also helps. So it's tricky to say which regulation helped most.
But there are plenty of sources of how many bottle caps there are in the streets and oceans. And how harmful they are to animals who think the small bright things are food.
It also makes sense, instead of the bottle and the cap becoming seperate pieces of trash, it's now a single piece. So it reduces the number of pieces if not the volume of trash.
Also for people from the US where bottles are shredded and caps typically not recycled. In Europe the caps also don't get recycled, but instead removed. The bottle is then checked for leaks and defects and if it passes it's cleaned and then reused. Actually recycling plastic is hard, so this way a bottle can be used at least two or three times.
You don't get your pfand in many cases if the cap isn't on, as well as the label many times. This isn't so much needed for the recycling but important for the whole process. For example groceries are required to take in bottles, but are allowed to limit this to bottles they sell. So the barcode om the label is checked for this purpose. The label is removed in the recycling process. The cap is required to motivate people to return those and not have them turn into litter. It's also a hygiene thing for the people handling the bottles, often there is liquid still in the bottle and without the cap it comes out during handling.
I will find the data later when I'm on desktop.
Im interested too on the data
That’s interesting. I haven’t paid attention to caps in litter.
Here they ask that you separate caps and throw them out, to make recycling the bottle easier. Even if you do a bottle return, haven’t done that in years since we have recycling, but the machine shreds the bottle and pops the top off into a separate bin, I always assumed trash
I agree with the mission of this new cap, but my thoughts were this: Coca Cola, PepsiCo, these brands are... so inhumanly big, their budgets are SO extremely deep and large. And this cap? This cap is the best they could come up with? There is not a grain of my being that can believe that. What I do know about these corporations, is that they hate working together to reduce waste. Anytime a bottle deposit system is expanded they basically stamp the floor angrily until the law forces them to adapt or get out, at which point they use the new hated rules in their marketing as if the planet was all they were thinking about all along. Right..
This cap is essentially psychological warfare against the consumer, to form negative thoughts about being responsible with plastic waste. It's purpose is to make you angry about the new rule, while still adhering to it.
Fuck you big food products inc, I hope we introduce a deposit system on fucking everything so you can all sit in the boardroom and cry about it.
their budgets are SO extremely deep and large. And this cap? This cap is the best they could come up with?
You're assuming that there was an expensive program to replace the entire bottling line and redesign the bottles in order to meet the EU regulation while achieving satisfactory user experience.
What likely happened is that the engineers in charge of the cap design were told to change as little as possible and came up with a design that only required changing the cap moulds. Everything else got to stay the same, saving the company's budget for other things
Yes and no: The bottling lines don't get replaced, and in fact the EU checked beforehand that they won't need to be replaced because otherwise the whole thing might've been an undue burden on the industry and they would have to make a closer evaluation, give the industry more time to switch, etc. The new caps can be screwed on by the old machines and if not, only cheap parts need replacing.
OTOH bottle cap manufacturers very much did do their homework, or at least the ones producing good caps that beverage companies will buy did it as no beverage company wants to be the one with the awkward caps. That's not to say that there's not bad designs out there but those will vanish. Also some consumers seem to have skill issues, like not latching the cap into the open position.
Spot on. For this, only the bottle cap production changed, the bottling process for beverages hadn't to be touched at all.
Additionally, the new caps use less materials, so they also save the company money.
They didn't even change the moulds. The caps are exactly the same in many cases, except they're not cut the entire way around.
Seems a few bottles have better design, but I have not seen those myself.
If I was the EU, I'd force these shits to get back to 1.5L reusable glass bottles with metal caps.
This cap is essentially psychological warfare against the consumer, to form negative thoughts about being responsible with plastic waste.
Are u OK? How is it meant to make the consumer think they are responsible?
Causing annoyance to the user directs frustration towards the regulator and not the implementor.
Apple is doing this in the EU for example to “protest” recent regulations.
"This is annoying. Fuck those lefties for forcing me to have to deal with this, fOr ThE eNvIrOnMeNt."
Am i the only person that likes the new caps? They prevent me from dropping them
The ones that flip and stay in place are fine. Not a fan of the ones on a little plastic ribbon.
Boy do I love the cap snapping back to its place while trying to pour something. I just rip them off when I open the bottle now.
I don't get it.
It stays open, you can drink from it, you can pour from it, you can pour into it.
What action does the cap staying attached prevent, warranting its detachment?
I'm seriously asking. I don't get it. What inconvenience?
Maybe your bottles are different, but the bottles here in Germany have a very short "leash" and are often connected to the right in two places, so it constantly pushes in your face when drinking.
If an actual problem would have been solved, I'd be fine with it, but it's just a pointless law which only exists to create the illusion of progress and shift blame onto consumers.
Many of the new bottle caps I encounter will actively push back into the closed position, meaning I have to keep them out of the way when pouring if I don't want to pour over the cap. Since I tend to encounter them on drink cartons rather than bottles, because I don't drink soda etc, it becomes even more annoying. Bottles you can turn whichever way, but drink cartons need to be kept at a certain angle for optimal pouring. Quite often the cap is in the way and there isn't really a nice place to put it.
This is even more frustrating because I never lost these caps anyway, I always threw them away with the packaging. I understand that it probably helps in the bigger picture, but for me personally it solves nothing and is incredibly annoying.
Edit: two examples
This one is fine, it snaps into a position that's handy and out of the way:
This one is very annoying. It'll stay in this position and requires constant force to keep out of this position. When opening or closing the packaging the attachment point also rotes, meaning it's always in the wrong place:
The cap pokes my face if I try to drink from it without tearing it off. When I tear it off there's then a sharp edge that pokes my hand every time I open or seal it.
Valid, I've mostly been pouring soda into glasses, and at least with my face, that doesn't happen.
This is such a bizarre design. I wonder why they don't just make a bit of a longer "leash" attaching the cap to the ring. Because then the cap wouldn't detached but it also wouldn't be annoyingly in the way like this.
Here in the US, I haven't seen these bottles yet, but I wonder if we'll be getting them at some point. :p
It gets in the way of everything all the time
That said, i have seen good and bad examples of this.
No it doesn't? I buy a bottle of something every day, these have never been trouble. Not once.
The first time I noticed it I thought, "neat" and that's it.
How does it get in the way? You open it and it stays there. Out of the way of anything you might use a bottle for.
Are there different ones? Because I've only ever seen the one, and it's the same one everyone hates on in pictures and videos online. Yet people say there are good ones and bad ones?
I don't get it.
The ones on the soda bottles are attached so closely to the ring that it makes it hard to put the cap back on. Because they are attached on one side, you always put the cap on at an angle which prevents you from screwing it closed. You have to pull the cap up a bit while closing to ensure it goes on straight. It’s a minor annoyance but half of the time it takes multiple attempts to put the cap back on.
On many bottles I've encountered the ring that keeps the cap attached to the bottleneck has been quite loose, so you rotate the cap up/left/right, thinking you're good to pour, then as you get going the cap slips back down, ensuring you distribute whatever you were pouring all over the the table.
On larger bottles when I pour into a glass the attached lid always swings round. And it’s awkward to hold it wwhile pouring.
The people complaining about that are mostly the same as the ones who complained that the masks were "suffocating" them during covid.
Oh shut the fuck up, that's not true at all. It can be annoying without it being some kind of nefarious political issue. What a cynical person you are.
That's not the case in Norway. We hate them equally. I hate it with a passion. Wore my mask dilligently without a fuss. Still do when I am sick and need to go to a shop.
I find it especially infuriating when driving a car. It is so hard getting it to seal properly one handed now.
How in the world did you make that assumption?
Turn the bottle 90 degrees?
It gets in the way anyway. And the amount of times I was pouring myself a drink and the cap snapped shut spilling shit everywhere is too damn high.
And when you try to screw it back on it just doesn't fit properly.
But anyway instead of endlessly complaining about it I just twist it off because I am not a baby.
Turning the cap's hinge on a milk carton every time you open it is not really convenient (you can't turn the carton, it's not round as a bottle)
That photo panel is the bottle rotated 90 degrees.
First world problems
Me still ripping those things completely off defeating thier purpose. Of course I try to drink can as much as possible. Except most stores refuse to stock anything but bottled it's frustrating.
This is why I'm glad I live in the US
Edit: this was mostly a joke. I think some of you took this personally
I hate this so much. I swear I have never in my life returned a bottle without the cap. How would you even lose it in the first place? What psycho opens a bottle and discards the cap? Now my pocket knife usage has increased 300% as I'm cutting this sharp plastic thinghy away every time and I'm creating way more plastic waste than ever before. I agree with a lot what the EU does but this is idiotic.
Very odd. Where I live you're not supposed to return the bottles with the cap, they're different plastics and the recyclers don't want the caps. You're supposed to throw the caps away in the regular trash.
I did too, but I've actually gotten used to it now
Tbh this, when you actually just leave it properly attached it's not much different from a water bottle lid at that point
As it has been pointed out by others, research data shows that plastic bottle caps are a significant part of trash that is washed onto beaches. In order to prevent that bottles now come with tethered caps. From this point of view this measurement might be understandable. But does one really lose the caps of these bottles that often? Is this really the problem?
Where I live these kind of bottles are part of a deposit system. When you return them at a supermarket you get your deposit (25 Cent) back. This alone ensures that these bottles barely end up anywhere in the enviroment in the first place. When these bottles are returned at the supermarket, all of the bottles do have their respective caps screwed on. This method is practical, as you can collect these bottles wtihout having to deal with leakages of excess liquids.
I never had any issues regarding that the cap is still attached to the bottle, which could be an issue when it comes to recycling these bottles. One major problem when it comes to recycling of plastics is that it is crucial that these plastics are separated by the material they are made of. That is why it is impossible to recycle compound materials, as they can't be separated from each other (i.e. tetra pak, tetra bric). The most common way of getting rid of these kind of packings is to burn them and use their heat for generating electricity.
These plastic bottles on the other hand can be recycled easily, as they consist of only one material (PET) - given, that the label is made of the same kind of plastic like the bottle itself.
I don't know if the bottle cap is made of the same material (PET) or if this is another kind of plastic (ABS, PS, ...). Making these bottle caps from the same material as the bottle itself would impose a greater impact than tethering them onto the bottle.
At first glance this measurement sounds like a low-hanging-fruit-greenwashing-attempt that hurts nobody. Very similar to the ban of disposable plastic cutlery or the ban of plastic straws. Don't get me wrong - I think that these things are an important step towards reducing pollution and garbage overall, but did you ever ask yourself: "How does the garbage get into the ocean in the first place?"
really reminds me of those plastic 6-pack rings that were really bad for wildlife. and the manshow idea to make em out of beef jerky. must have been 20 yrs ago
ziggy zaggy ziggy zaggy ho ho ho
I'm annoyed by the caps but you had me at the first paragraph
I seriously don't understand how people have problems with these, they're absolutely fine. Not hard to use, doesn't get in the way and you'll never lose them. And if all else fails you can just pull them off, not hard either. You gotta be dumb as fuck to have problems with them.
As with anything else, I'm absolutely certain this is the classic "something changed so I'm going to be mad about it and make up a bunch of reasons why it's bad" thing that happens to every little change anywhere. And what is some tiny inconvenience compared to lessening plastic waste, helping the environment and hurting less living beings? Stop being such spoiled little shits and pull your heads out of your asses.
There definitely is an element of people just not liking it because it's new, but there's also an element of not getting any say in it whatsoever.
Also, they really do get in the way. They make it harder to get a good seal between your mouth and the bottle at any angle, and at the top they hit your nose. They are slightly harder to use, especially if you're using one hand for any reason, including if you only have one hand. Removing them without tools results in a sharp bit of plastic which pokes and irritates your skin.
Finally, this is another patronising effort which makes consumers lives more difficult (by whatever amount) while not doing enough to combat plastic waste.
They are very annoying but easy to twist off so I dont really care
You can solve this easily by not buying overpriced massproduced factory food.
Wanna fight back? Stop giving them money.
Or just, putting the cap on the side and never have it be an annoyance whether you drink from the bottle, pour it in a glass, or whatever really. People complaining about that have issues.
yeh I just buy the raw milk
I'm honestly so confused as to why people care. I honestly barely notice the difference
Depends on what you drink. On a smoothie the thicker liquid will cling onto the lid while you drink until just at the moment then drip onto your clothes.
Everyone hates that.
I have kids and I don't hate not losing caps.
Thanks for broadening my perspective.
I know they're supposed to be
goodless damaging for the environment but... God I hate those caps.
I recycle everything so personally don't have much need for the tether, but it's probably better overall and I imagine most people will just get used to it, honestly.
It is a bit annoying having to make sure my nose doesn't get bonked when I drink, though.
„Im so inconvenienced by the piece of trash i bought wanting to stay a single piece of trash”
Humans as they discovered they made a small continent out of trash in the ocean. If it bothers you so much then stop buying plastic trash.
„Im so inconvenienced by the piece of trash i bought wanting to stay a single piece of trash” // Humans as they discovered they made a small continent out of trash in the ocean. If it bothers you so much then stop buying plastic trash.
People are clearly complaining about how the feature was implemented. Not the goal (to keep it as a single piece of trash).
Humans as they discovered they made a small continent out of trash in the ocean.
It's just an area of higher density particulate matter in the water.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch
Despite the common public perception of the patch existing as giant islands of floating garbage, its low density (4 particles per cubic metre (3.1/cu yd)) prevents detection by satellite imagery, or even by casual boaters or divers in the area. This is because the patch is a widely dispersed area consisting primarily of suspended "fingernail-sized or smaller"—often microscopic—particles in the upper water column known as microplastics.[4] Researchers from The Ocean Cleanup project claimed that the patch covers 1.6 million square kilometres (620,000 square miles)[5] consisting of 45,000–129,000 metric tons (50,000–142,000 short tons) of plastic as of 2018.
NOAA stated:
While "Great Pacific Garbage Patch" is a term often used by the media, it does not paint an accurate picture of the marine debris problem in the North Pacific Ocean. The name "Pacific Garbage Patch" has led many to believe that this area is a large and continuous patch of easily visible marine debris items such as bottles and other litter – akin to a literal island of trash that should be visible with satellite or aerial photographs. This is not the case.
— Ocean Facts, National Ocean Service[57]
Oh that's supposed to stay attatched? Thought it was only to make sure that bottle was unopened. I always just rip it off.
It’s a new thing that they’re harder to rip off. Because of EU regulation.
If you have a limited mobility, they can be very hard to close if the tail is short, which defies the purpose of a bottle cap.
Problem: It's a different kind of plastic from the bottle and isn't recyclable. So it's going to need to be cut off the bottle anyway. :(
https://www.rd.com/article/keep-caps-on-bottles-when-recycling/
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/you-asked/can-plastic-caps-water-or-soda-bottles-be-recycled
This is not about US bottle caps
I seriously doubt bottlecaps are any different elsewhere.
I so despise that, I always cut it off and get agitated because always leaves some sharpness.
I carry a small nail clipper on my key chain that has seen more of those than actual nails.
My pocket knife aswell. I used to recycle 100% of my plastic bottles before. Now I recycle 99.8% as there's always this tiny piece that I cut off and throw in the trash. Same as that metal clip on lighters that's supposed to stop children from being able to ignite them. It's the first thing I rip off when I buy a new one.
Let's just stop making all this shit out of plastic. Like immediately
Let's make them out of solid gold
If the manufacturers would not use the cheapest caps with the least amount of flimsiest material available for this application, they could even be usable…
Aluminum can gang represent.
Have you seen the caps on some milk packs? Those are just evil.
I only buy one of those plastic bottles every two months, so that's okay for me. The good water comes from the tap, cola or other drinks I buy in glass bottles.
It's not just soda bottles here, it's milk bottles, cream, fruit concentrates... Anything in any kind of plastic container with a screw-on cap.
Actually the soda bottles are the least egregious examples. The milk bottles are terrible: you're 100% guaranteed to spill milk if you don't detach the cap.
I hate so much the milk bottle caps. Now i have to open it inside a sink every time or send it flying all over the room.
In Germany milk usually is sold in a carton or a glass bottle. I can imagine it is annoying for you.
why did make this law about bottle caps? how is that supposed to help the environment?
I've heard (so no certainty), that they analyzed plastic trash collected from beaches and found plastic bottle caps to be a significant part of it. So they thought it would be worth trying to solve that problem.
The advertised benefit is that if you throw away the cap and bottle separately, you have 2 pieces of trash to clean up instead of 1. The actual benefit is that bottling companies can charge more for a more complex mold, but the same amount of materials. Lobbyiest lobbied and tada! In reality both pieces end up in the same landfill or in the same water current to garbage island. Now we have an antiquated law and an annoying policy to follow.
Damn that looks annoying af
I can't complain about them. I just rip them off. There may be a law (EU regulation) for bottle manufacturers to tether the caps, but there's no law againt ripping the caps off.
Ripping them off usually leaved the plastic connecting pieces that then poke you in the mouth
I'm always pouring the water into a cup or glass, and the attached cap tands to fall down into the path of the stream, lest I use my other hand to hold it. The plastic connestors don't bother me.
Basically overworked, not bottle caps.
Those caps are a way to cull the weakest parts of society. I too have hurt my dick on them but have learned to deal with them.
Yes, that is mildly infuriating. Someone deliberately going to additional trouble to increase the a kind of microplastics in the environment and make it harder for the poor folks in the recycling plants.
Get over yourself
I really do not care how you feel about it at all. I do care about reducing pollution though. The only infuriating thing here is your childish egoism.