Sony cancelled the PSN account linking requirement for Helldivers 2

We are still learning what is best for PC players
More like
We are constantly limit-testing what level of exploitation our players can endure
- It's weird how collective action works so well but they only choose to do it for this linking requirement. You could get the rootkits gone as well, gamers.
  
  Most people don't know what they're installing or don't care about their privacy, which is why there's not enough people rising up against kernel level AC's. Also, not being able to play until you create an account is much more upsetting to most people, than just clicking 'update' in League of Legends.
  
  the problem with that is that the people playing thoose games have no idea what a rootkit is
  
  This! God, please.
- And they already got a bunch of new accounts
- Like an emotionally abusive partner.
- That's part of the enshitifcation process.
- Brooooo this victory is an absolute game-changer for us die-hard Xbox fans, and it's downright exhilarating! Sony's constant blunders pale in comparison to the countless triumphs of team Xbox, and this might just be the knockout blow that finally converts those Lamestationers to our side. Brace yourselves for an epic shift as the unrivaled supremacy of our console dazzles and dominates, pulling every gamer into its unstoppable vortex of pure excitement and adrenaline-fueled gaming bliss!👊👊
  
  Whoa, this gave me some late 2000s nostalgia.
  
  "Annnnnnnd post!"
  
  Great shitpost!
  
  This sounds like a chatGPT post ngl
  
  Lmaooo
  
  I can’t tell if you’re being downvoted by dorks who don’t realise you’re joking or by dorks who DO realise you’re joking and feel attacked. Either way, sad, silly down voters.
  
  Get back in your hole console peasant and Xbox shill
  
  Thanks, definitely not Xbox employee.
  
  Doritos Dew It Right!
  
  The amount of downvotes this has makes me worried about Lemmy’s sense of humor
  
  Phil Spencer, is that you?
  
  Why is this downvoted, this is great!

"we're still learning What's best for PC players"
Translation: We're trying multiple predatory methods to see how far we can push PC players and figure out what we can get away with, compared to all the shit shows we successfully pulled off on our own platform.
- We all want PlayStation exclusives on PC, their response now is going to be their own launcher. Just a guess on my end.
  
  What's wild to me is they're making their own overlay for their PC games. Ghost of Tsushima is supposed to be the first release title with it. Do they not understand steam already has an overlay? I feel like 2 overlays would just compete and be obnoxious and possibly ever impact performance.
  Also, why? If it is for co-op crossplay, just make linking PSN to Steam optional, and state it is needed for inviting/grouping with any PS5 friends. Then do what every other multiplatform game does and show 2 friends list in the game.
- "we're sorry that we got caught"
- "We're still learning just how far we can push PC players."

This shows the power of steam reviews with it being driven by the actual community. People tried to downplay and belittle its effectiveness, but it being front and center on the store page does have more impact than there would be without steam reviews. If there were no steam reviews the PSN requirement would have been pushed through with it being easier to ignore some random internet comments on social media than a store page.
- Reviews aren't pointless, but their impact only goes so far. I am assuming the massive amount of refunds had more to do with it, tbh.
  
  I suspect someone in accounting ran the numbers and decided they stand to lose more to reduced microtransaction sales than they would have gained via selling scraped data.
  Though I agreed with you. It's still a win, but we have to be careful not to conflate this with Sony "caring".
  
  It's probably a bit of this and a bit of that. I mean the game went from one of the best revied games to one of the worst in a day. There were refunds and a drop in players all at the same time.
  
  I'd imagine that there's math to be done on sales for a mixed review game vs. a overwhelming positive one, and its not favorable.
- It's a good reminder that collective/democratic bargaining works. It's about time we bring back unions and cooperatives.
  
  Made me imagine a page where everyone everyday can leave 1 vote on how good the government performs
  If the scores are too low for a prolonged period of time, the government is dismissed.
  (Obviously a very first-second concept with millions of flaws - just a thought)
- Now do it for things like universal healthcare and taxing the rich!
  
  Country reviews on Steam, do it Gabe
  
  ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ or else you basically support Xbox
- The sony communities I saw poopooing the whole thing flipped immediately into "WE DID IT" mode, pretending they actually cared about the people that were going to lose access.
- This is why Steam reviews should be taken much more seriously. This was impossible to avoid due to the enormous amount of bad press and devs themselves jumping on the hate train, but I’m betting that a lot of review bombing attempts have been quietly offset by the company just paying people for fake reviews. It’s especially obvious when the game has relatively low reviews for months and months, then suddenly bad stuff happens and along with the justified dump of negative reviews, positive ones also skyrocket (99% of which composed of “good game”, random memes or ascii art).

Negative reviews should remain until the purchase restrictions put in place on Steam for non-PSN countries have been reverted.
Until then this looks like a temporary move for damage control and they'll try this again when refunds are less likely and wont be from restricted countries.
https://steamdb.info/sub/137730/history/?changeid=23416542
Democracy has not won yet.
- There was a theory that the purchase restrictions were put in place by Valve, not Sony (because those countries couldn’t make an account without violating TOS). If so, Valve might shortly remove the restrictions.
  
  Would the publisher not have to request the game not be sold in those countries before Valve restricts the sale of it?
  I believe that Valve may be the ones who do it, but just doing it without permission sounds... Illegal and out of their jurisdiction.
  I know Valve controls their storefront and can absolutely pull games down, just looking for some clarification on whether this could be true or not.
- Honestly I’m keeping my negative review permanent. The game is great and I enjoy it, but besides a temporary back lash I want the sting to stick around to hopefully teach companies about fucking around and finding out.
  
  Maybe you’ll be teaching them that changing course brings no relief from punishment
  
  They won't learn anything. They only nulled their bullshit because it would hurt their financial quarter because their biggest cash cow game at the moment is bombing. They only way to maybe make them learn would be if every single one of the "outraged gamers" would just uninstall and never play it again, but that won't happen and Sony knows that (which is why they can try pulling that shit in the first place).
  Good for the peeps in non-PSN countries tho. For them, this is a real win.

"We're still learning what is best for PC players"
Well PlayStation staff member, it definitely isn't having people create another account when they already have a Steam account.
- Also gaming on a PC is 40 years old, what do they still have to learn?
  
  How much less bullshit PC players are willing to put up with compared to their console counterparts, apparently.
  
  It's all a fucking smokescreen. Man, people just eat that shit up. Every time. It's almost like the game is saturated in satire and we're spooning it down ourselves.
  Oh, wait. fuck.
  
  "You guys actually want to play these things? Yeeesh."
  
  They are used to playstation players who buy a console for twice the price it's worth through discord bots. I don't think they even know what a backlash is
  
  They are learning what level of bullshit PC gamers will tolerate.
  
  Maybe a company that has (mostly) made consoles isn’t exactly playing games or has people on staff on the executive level that play(ed) on a PC. I’m 30 and outside of a brief time I tried to play on a PC I’ve pretty much been console my entire life. My first gaming experiences were all on console. It’s completely logical for a company to make a move like this when they have specialized in one area for a time.

Just another nail to the bootlicker's coffin of "review bombing does nothing".
- God I hate bootlickers. Fuck em.
- Review bombing and mass refunding too. Hit them where it hurts

The lack of humility in their statement makes me think they haven't learned anything.
- Yea, this reads more like a sorry, this was too forced we will do something more subtle in the future. Not an actual apology.
  
  They don't even say sorry. They did not use the words Sorry, Mistake, Problem, Wrong, or Fault. They say the approximation of "We see you're absolutely outraged. We've decided to change our decisions. We are always improving."
- Translated: Dear suckers who keep giving us money for half-finished products. We are sincerely sorry, sorry for getting caught. We thought we could squeeze through with this one, but apparently our PC fans are not as gullible as our console fans.
- They haven't. Ghosts of Tsushima's PC release is going to require account-linking from day 1 for the online component. The only thing Sony has learned is that the shittiness has to be ready and working from the start.
- Yeah but the humility in their actions shows they did.
  
  AFAIK the game is still banned in countries where you can't get a PSN account and also it still ships with a rootkit, so...

We're still learning what is best for PC players
We'll keep you updated on future plans
Behind the scenes coming up with the future plans:
- Yeah, like, you know what is best for PC players, it just doesn't come together with financial interest :D
  
  and this is why i wish people would make it profitable, fuck AAA titles, give your money to indies who respect the consumers and actually just want to make a fun game.
  I wish game devs would found a union that helps developers fund and publish games with no profit incentive, it seems like such an obvious thing to do and has the potential to revolutionizing how people create and play games.
  No longer would we be beholden to companies, no longer would developers have to compromise their works for profit, no longer would players have to tolerate predatory bullshit.
  Just good games made by passionate people who are happy to have people enjoy their works while being able to afford to live on it.

Getting abusive parent vibes from the language of Sony's post.
- Corporate PR speak always sounds cringe and I despise it. Just be humans you fucking pricks.
  
  Tbf, I've seen what happens to indies when they're just humans in how they talk to their customers/fans. HR speak exists for a reason unfortunately
  
  Nah, I'd rather they keep speaking like this. Makes it really obvious from the get go who I'm dealing with. If they speak normally, they might blend in
- Always is. They went too far. They scale back and try again when the dust has settled.
  Oldest trick in the books
- Starting off with “we’ve heard your feedback” is something I’ve never heard from an abusive parent?
  
  “I understand you’re upset but…”
  
  Naw it's more like "we did something we knew would make you incredibly uncomfortable; but now that you're screaming we're worried about the neighbors hearing it and we don't want the cops called on us, so we'll back off until a more opportune time."

Glorious Victory ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
- Major Order Completed! +50 Medals

Where are the: "just make an account bro" people now? Probably pre ordering skyrim the definite edition
- I'd imagine some of them are here:
  (edit: forgot to un-dox the user)
  
  I’d love to shut up and play Starship Troopers: The Game. But unfortunately, I don’t have a PS5 or gaming PC. Still holding out hope that this will come to Xbox one day.
  
  And here
- I was one of them to begin with but once I found out about the whole thing with people of certain countries not able to have an account even though they had already bought the game and were even previously able to play are now locked out, then I was on board.
  I'm not against just making accounts, I must have thousands across the internet, what would be one more if I hadn't already had a PSN account.
  
  what would be one more if I hadn’t already had a PSN account.
  One more attack vector to gain access to all your other accounts across the internet.
  
  Wouldn't it be nice to not have your info spread across thosands of accounts that you yourself even implied you don't keep track of?
  What sony pulled, and coporate moves like it, are at least in part a result of people saying "meh, what's one more account, I've already got thousands."
  We as a community aren't an immaculate entity. Companies don't just make these moves out of nowhere, they analyze what we're willing to do so they can take advantage of those things to make money. That's not some sleazy secret scheme, thats basic market research. If we collectively show we do actually care about this stuff and won't supoort their business when they do it, it might not happen so often.
  
  But the game isn't even available on PlayStation so why am I creating an account? At the very least it's pointless busy work. And apparently not even well thought out.
- Demanding we apologize for the negative reviews now that Sony has reverted the change, if the discord server is anything to go by
- Playing sims
- Probably just playing the game.

Shitstorm = Feedback
Noted...
- It's Feedback in the way that microphone feedback is - really bloody loud and painful, and makes you know you've done something wrong
  
  Yeah exactly. And it’s often the only feedback that gets any attention unfortunately. It was getting media attention and getting very loud.
  Plus the whole thing was just stupid. They could have accomplished exactly the same thing with little backlash by offering some little in-game trinket for voluntarily linking a PSN account where it was possible to get one. This wasn’t my idea, I saw it somewhere on Lemmy, but that person needs to get a job at Sony stat because the chucklefucks working there now have no clue.
- the only feedback they respond to are the feedback that give them concussion.

For now... 🖕🏽 They worded that so weasely, they're just waiting for the storm to pass and for Legal to come up with some compelling reason why they're totally "obligated" to make it happen, "hands tied" "so sorry" and all that.
Fuck Sony. They made this SOP way back when, and there's no way they let this stop them forever. It's all about profit, not what "we" want.
- Backfire 2, Steam refund boogaloo when?
- Sounds about right.
- You don't lower your guard just because the fight is over. It's not like Sony has morals or any trustworthiness to keep to this even in the midterm.
  
  You don't get to do something shitty then expect everyone to be happy. If you want that, you shouldn't have done the shitty thing in the first place.
  
  Seriously. Jesus Christi, peopke

"Sorry, we'll have to do it in a few months again to see if you still can mobilize this much".
- "You know that thing where the initial assault is just a ploy to draw people in for the real attack?"

Holy shit I was wrong
- Now, now, don't be hasty. Sony can still screw it up somehow.
- In today's digital media, any post where a person admits they were wrong deserves an upvote regardless of the subject.
  
  Getting almost 300k negative reviews in 2 days will do that.

Cyberbullying works 🎉
- Is that the new term for boycott?
  
  Ya, it's the good ol' "voting with your wallet" that can bring companies to their knees

The fact that they specifically mention that date makes me think they're simply pushing the date back
- They are just being clear and accurate with their comms. No need to over think it.
- They specifically said "not moving forward". Seems pretty clear and concise. No PSN requirement.
  
  And they also said "We're still learning what's best for PC players [...]"
  They'll be back.
- You just know that there used to be an "…at this time" at the end of that sentence and some good PR folk edited it out because managers are out of touch douches.

Have they reinstated the games back in the 177 countries they delisted it in? Can those people who paid for the game still play it?
- Short answer: Yes.
  Longer answer: The access hadn't been removed yet, as the update that would enable account linking wasn't pushed yet. As for the Steam side, I'm pretty sure people who already had the game installed should've had access still, although updates and general unsureness definitely could be obstacles. With this tweet, however, the update is no longer coming, and were just waiting for Sony/Valve to lift the selling/installing restrictions in those countries.
  
  Steam only removes games from the store, and doesn't remove games from anyone's library. Those affected people, if they didn't refund, will still have HD2 in their library. There is also never install restrictions/blocking.

OK now they can go ahead with plan B where they allow you to link your PSN account to get some super cool cosmetic. I wonder what the reaction of the consumers will be then.
- I think that's entirely fair and similar to store loyalty cards. You get something in exchange for your datas at least.
  
  Except now many loyalty cards are now required to get sale prices that were previously available without them. It is a bleak world where folks have to potentially choose between affording groceries and protecting their privacy.
- That's allright tho.
- Wasn't that already the case? That's what they did in most of their other pc ports at least
- People actually thought that this was a very cool solution. People are the worst.
  
  I really don't see the problem, provided it is cosmetic. If you don't want to link, you don't get a glittering, whatever in game. If you don't mind sharing your datas, then you get the shiny thing (and everyone knows you don't mind sharing your datas).
  
  There are legitimate reasons for the devs and Sony to want your psn account linked. It's also reasonable to not want to do so. Why not offer a compromise, like any healthy relationship, and allow, not force, account linking, with a little incentive? Where is the downside to either party?

So, someone in my Discord channel posted a tweet that maybe alters perspective a bit;
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/575881390999207956/1236869629008412714/not-surprised-but-damn-v0-jjr7xh7eqlyc1.png?ex=663a3cdb&is=6638eb5b&hm=3f4ff94b3a29dceb2e973e1e61abcf84c92220571d32a7b05c2966b74ccb241b&
To summarize or if the link breaks, one of the devs “knew beforehand” they’d have to require PSN accounts post launch, but disabled them for a smooth launch. That’s interesting, but as long as Sony was acting as publisher I feel like the blame still goes on them for selling the game to non-PSN countries initially.
- FYI l: That's the CEO of Arrowhead, who made the game.

Nice! Guess I can add it back to my wishlist and consider buying it soon! Been holding off on it too long
- "too long"? The game is 4 months old.
  Hot take, don't buy any games which were only released in the last 12 months. Matured games are far more stable
  I remember when people on this site were saying Helldivers was already GOTY back on release week, hilarious.
  If it wins after this situation, it's definitely not the players choice.
  
  I'd agree with this statement for most games, but the best way to enjoy Helldivers 2 specifically is to play it when the playerbase and the hype is at its peak. The gameplay will still be just as good a year from now, sure, but you'd miss the emergent story being built right now
  
  !patientgamers@sh.itjust.works

- Yeah but now people will get right back to spending money on the game. So at the end of the day it's still Sony laughing all the way to the bank.
  Shit like this should result in a boycott not in "at least it's not as bad as it could've been".
  
  I never ended up refunding my copy, but I'm certainly not gonna give a single cent to the live service side of the game. I already hadn't paid for anything, but was considering it before this shitshow. Now, I think I'll just buy copies of Magicka and throw them at friends to try and support Arrowhead.
  
  Boycotting the game would hurt Arrowhead far more than Sony, and they were forced to do this. Like beating a dog because the owner upset you.

This has the "fuck you" energy without the actual word
- "we listened to your feedback and made major changes to planned updates" is fuck you energy?
  
  "We listened to our accounting, and the massive wave of refunds and unbought mtx is hurting our numbers. PR isn't happy about the reviews either. We'll keep you updated on future plans for fucking you over!
  Do you really think that Sony will actually back down? They are calming down the shitstorm that is going over all media, socials and steam. They'll reorganize and will move on with their plans. Arrowhead and Helldivers is just one of many assets.
  
  It does kind of have “We would have gotten away with it, if it hadn't been for you meddling kids!” energy to me.
  There’s no way they thought the PSN thing would’ve been a well-received update.
- It does?
  
  It does not.

It's still packaged with that awful and invasive nProtect GameGuard garbage though, so be be aware of what you're buying before you make the choice.
- Or just run linux. While that comes with other potential issues... Anti-cheat isn't one of them. Either the game doesn't work (and thus safe from the terribad rootkits), or the "anti-cheat" is stuck in it's sandbox(and thus safe from the rootkit).

PC gamers with the W for not folding to bad choices. More gamers need to do this.

I think there'd have been a lot less pushback if the gamers had got something in return, like Steam/PSN cross-buy on Sony published titles.
It's not even like they could claim it being needed for cross-play, because it demonstrably works without it.

Still not going to buy it.

Good. I hope this collaboration will kick all 3rd party ~~launchers~~ stuff from Steam in the future.
- It never required a 3rd party launcher, just a PSN account to link to a Steam account.
  
  I know. I was talking about all 3rd party bullshit on Steam. My bad, I could've written more clearly.