Tesla to lay off everyone working on Superchargers, new vehicles

I don't think that's it at all. The cost of a new car, any new car, is still out of reach for the vast majority of Americans, much less a dedicated daily commuter vehicle (because you need a gas car for long trips). PHEV is an imperfect compromise, but there simply aren't enough used PHEV models available on the market.

I bought a car last year, and I really wanted to get something electric, but the car I need just doesn't exist at the price I can afford. Chargers didn't factor into it.

US needs to regulate chargers.

100%. This should have been addressed years ago, honestly. No one would tolerate VW only being able to gas up at Shell stations due to different nozzles. This is no different.

US needs to regulate chargers.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/02/15/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-new-standards-and-major-progress-for-a-made-in-america-national-network-of-electric-vehicle-chargers/

• The Department of Transportation, in partnership with the Department of Energy, finalized new standards to make charging EVs convenient and reliable for all Americans, including when driving long distances. The new standards will ensure everyone can use the network – no matter what car you drive or which state you charge in. The standards also require strong workforce standards;
• The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) outlined its final plan for compliance with the Build America, Buy America Act for federally funded EV chargers. Effective immediately, all EV chargers funded through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law must be built in the United States. The plan requires that, effective immediately, final assembly and all manufacturing processes for any iron or steel charger enclosures or housing occur in the United States. By July 2024, at least 55 percent of the cost of all components will need to be manufactured domestically as well;
• The new Joint Office of Energy and Transportation released a notice of intent to issue a funding opportunity for its Ride and Drive Electric research and development program. This program will advance the goal of building a national network of EV chargers for all Americans by supporting EV charging reliability, resiliency, equity, and workforce development;
• The Department of Energy today announced $7.4 million in funding for seven projects to develop innovative medium-and heavy-duty EV charging and hydrogen corridor infrastructure plans serving millions of Americans across 23 states;
• FHWA announced details for its soon-to-launch Charging and Fueling Infrastructure (CFI) discretionary grant program. The program will make available more than $2.5 billion over five years – including $700 million in funding through the first round of funding available to states, localities, Tribes, territories, and public authorities – to deploy publicly accessible charging and alternative fueling infrastructure in communities across the country, including at schools, grocery stores, parks, libraries, apartment complexes, and everywhere else Americans live and work; and,
• The Administration highlighted major manufacturing and other new facilities spurred by these investments and the Biden-Harris Administration’s Made in America policies, including new commitments from domestic EV charging manufacturers and network operators.

Assuming it isn't strangled in the cradle by Red State infrastructure haters (like the HSR projects through the Midwest that Obama failed to implement), this could be a good thing.

But I've seen so many of these kinds of plans get a ton of money and produce vanishingly little in the way of material change. So we'll see where it all goes.

They can't because the Musk personality cult is pretty much the only thing keeping the company viable at this point. They are absolutely fucked.

Subarus are pretty awesome. Just sayin'

EVs are awesome. I loved the two I had. The only reasons I don't have one now is I hardly drive anymore and am doing construction on my house that makes a truck become useful. If there were an EV truck that wasn't the size of the house I'm building or the cost of the house I'm building, I'd have gotten that. Instead I got the Maverick hybrid.

If you enjoy the luxury of the Benz, then the Model 3 would have been a step down. There are a lot of good EV options in the luxury range, but very few in the low end range. The Volvo XC40 was really fun to drive and pretty comfortable. My friend loved her Porsche Taycan (that might be too high end, not sure). My coworker just got an i4 and really likes it.

I do think someone would immediately buy the charging network if it were an option. I mean gas stations have all kinds of stuff spring up around them when anyone stopping there won't even be very long and only passengers will be bored with nothing to do for that short amount of time. At a charging station, you are taking a longer break and even the driver is participating in that break.

Owning the charge network is going to be a much bigger deal when it's common to use your EV for long trips. And whether people want to or not at this point, it's steadily becoming more and more normalized. It's certainly more enjoyable overall to take a long trip in an EV. The downtime is nice. And healthier than sitting down for hours straight. Even before electric cars, people were encouraged to stop every 2 hours on a road trip anyway.

The old advice was to plan recreational stops along the trip, to prevent embolisms or cramps. What if charge stations had electric scooters or bikes and maps to fun 15 minute activities in range. Not to mention meals of course.

I know many people don't take road trips in a healthy way currently, so gas cars seem like the better choice for them. You'll "make better time" if that is the only important thing. But for people that already followed best practices, a road trip in an electric car is already the same.

I used to drive a Benz, I hated it. Now I'm on my second Cadillac and I'm never going back. Cadillac makes a damn fine automobile tell ya what.

I bought a plug-in hybrid last week. I'd have gotten a pure EV, but I take road trips sometimes, and I don't want to rely on the patchy changing network in the US.

Another factor is that I rent a house, and there's already one EV to charge at 120V. The wiring can't really handle a second charger, and I didn't want to always be fighting over it.

Just get a better EV.

• you could still charge at home
• teslas include a free adapter to the other us standard, so you could still charge at any other charging network

Charging at home is the way to go. You may be able to refinance your home if you haven't paid it off, and rope in upgrades for new charging circuits.

Plus, there are programs being developed - note none have been finalized - to allow EVs to give power back to the grid and so you could one day make money back from keeping your car plugged in over night. There are already time of use rates too for many markets in the US and EU. Plus there's peace of mind knowing that your car will always be fully topped off every morning.

As an electrical engineer that has studied the idea of Plug-in Hybrid EVs (PHEVs) and Battery EVs (BEVs), personally I always try to persuade people to look into PHEVs for personal and societal reasons, but even if you don't go with Tesla for your BEV purchase I think it's still worth it to go electric. Maybe consider the Chevy Bolt EUV, Nissan Leaf, or Volkswagen ID.4. On the PHEV side, there's the Ford Escape Plug-in Hybrid and Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe. Lots of tax credits out there too for new ($7,500) and used ($4,000) so EVs are definitely still an opportunity!

Get a Porsche Maccan.

I had a Volt (loved it for what it was) and I gave up charging it anywhere but at home. I had the same experience as you, had to have a dozen apps, use the stupid tap to pay, only to find out the network was down and you couldn't use it. For a plug in hybrid, it was an inconvenience, for a pure EV that may be arriving with less than 10% battery, it would be a disaster.

Can I ask - what's the best app you found so far?

SpaceX also has Starlink. I don't know how it's doing financially, but I do know it's quite popular in places where wired internet isn't available, and for people who are mobile. I've even seen pictures of cruise ships using it for internet access.

No, just the executive who's retaining him, obviously

Which... I guess that means the board?

that would imply self-awareness and some degree of competence

On the one hand, funny, but i mean, who even cares though, everything Elon is going to zero, because he only has terrible ideas

the idea that you should buy a car whose features are disabled unless you pay extra for them is probably the main driver of enshittification in society. It's the enshittification of ownership. Of course capitalists love this idea, but no actual human being should.

No he’s simply an arrogant, incompetent yutz.

He announced it as part of a tax break scam, then let the project die.

There's been some discussion over the years that Tesla never seriously tried to make the battery swap work, that they did it to claim subsidies from California which they subsequently never returned to the taxpayers.

Nio has seemingly been successful with battery swap stations in their cars, so luckily the concept hasn't been completely abandoned.

Tom Scott trying it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZy603as5w

I dont want your shitty old battery.

That is why.

I think there are actual longer term mechanical and safety issues with it. I don't think the idea was quite ready for prime time just yet.

It's not that good of an idea in the long run. It was attractive when EVs struggled to have 100mi range and L3 chargers didn't exist. Once batteries got good enough to push 300-400mi and there's plenty of L3 chargers around, it's just not necessary. The range will outlast your bladder.

That's on top of what others have mentioned about how they can get abused. You'll never know if the new battery you're getting is good. Or if the charge station tests it and find it's junk, then they have to do something with it, which increases their costs.

I'm not sure I'd want to be swapping my battery out like a propane tank. Not everyone would follow charging recommendations, etc.

Elon doesn't care about profit... See X Elon does care about sexy Elon is not the one who has to figure out anything.

So I guess it's no 2. He didn't get the feels for it.

But that's cool because the company name is a elementary school level word play, exactly the kind Musk likes. Also the company is about digging holes and everyone in kindergarten knows how cool digging is.

You can never forget that we're dealing with a person whose emotional aptitude is the equivalent of a child.

Self fulfilling prophecy that the company seems to have stopped doing stuff. He found it boring and it is failing.

Their rare "completed" projects are utter embarrassments.

I wonder if they miscalculated the install + maintenance cost vs the charging fee they're giving customers. Like if it's not balanced correctly they could be losing money on each charging station. Maybe the stations require more maintenance than they anticipated?

That seems like a super basic thing to do if you're running the business, but so much of the initial rollout was about availability and low cost and do-it-now that maybe that was a secondary concern or they thought there'd be higher adoption by now. It also seems like a simple fix, raise charging prices and say why. But maybe either the discrepancy is too big or they're worried about customer/media backlash.

Or maybe it's another example of "move fast and break things" running into the real world and not being viable.

The startup cost on their charger stations is pretty high and they typically have a deal with land owners to have them installed, so I doubt they hit break even for years on one bank.

They were aggressive in putting up charging areas to ease the hurdle of charging for potential customers when they were the only viable BEV and sales have slumped pretty badly now, so spending more on chargers at this point is financially unwise. With charger competition ramping up they are not in a great place for the financial aggression needed to have the chargers pay off in any timespan with limited income from car sales.

If they had been of the mindset to corner the charging market, instead of driving sales of their vehicles, they would have had an entirely different strategy and could have had a great steady income off chargers.

History has proven again and again that rights are taken, not given.

Im making a valid point while you’re trying to tell me what I should be saying instead

Propagandists always try to control the narrative

You’re assuming.

Are they going to give him his $60B bonus now?

The shareholders need to start calling out the clear bias of the boards constitution. Vanguard and iShares combined hold more shares than Elon does. It's clearly doable, it's just time for some adults in the room. If you hold Vanguard and iShares etfs in your accounts, don't be afraid to let them know this.

It could be as simple as securing more/better access to China’s significant rare earth deposits that batteries need. Could also be signs that Tesla is offshoring or pushing harder into China’s domestic market, but they’re way behind there

I actually don’t care about individual investors, beyond the implications for the broader ‘economy’ if the Tesla bubble bursts. But given how absurd the market cap for Tesla is compared to the traditional automakers, when this hype train stops picking up speed more rubes, the rest of us need it to coast down gradually, not crash and burn.

Got it, investing in food.

They do, to a point.

If it's a "trim" that is a vague percentage without any standout cuts in recognized people or groups, then good. If there are recognized names or groups, but they are people associated with widely known failures, like a team whose sole responsibility is a proven financial failure, good or even better. If you have people caught up in it who are well recognized for critical successes, then the investors won't be so bullish.

Here we see two groups seen as responsible for the key success factors of Tesla obliterated, with very little external signs of why this could be a rational move. The other layoffs might have been viewed well, even if some of them were also bad news, but I think these two will be viewed as bad news.

Also, this may be seen as a missed opportunity. Tesla established SC network as the premiere EV charging solution, and made it credibly cover other manufacturers, setting it up as independently valuable with it without Tesala. Tesla ditched the entire team, putting that at risk and taking on expenses to let go of those people for long term salary savings. A different business might have sold off the group intact, not only avoiding severance expense, but also getting a big check in the process from some other company. Keeping the "business" with none of the actual people is a bizarre move.

Tesla valuation is beyond comprehension, I don't want to touch it.

Investors love job losses

Once again confirming how sociopathic the stock market can be.

They did more layoffs yesterday and the stock price went down lol

Yeah but the longer term doesn't looks good.

Yeah, I think this is the event horizon.

Okay, that makes sense. Was going to ask how proprietary/locked that charger system was as it seems to be the immerging standard.

CCS is already required in Europe, problem is there aren't nearly as many CCS chargers in the US especially compared to Tesla's network

Remember the time Sony literally put malware on their CDs that hacked your computer?

I haven't bought Sony products since then, and it continues to amaze me that we collectively didn't learn anything. What kind of idiot would buy anything from a company that booby-traps its products?

I don't think that would change anything in the grand scheme of things, just make problems for owners of the affected devices. I still think he should sit on the next Starship.

He'll happily use the last watt in each car's battery. Owners will get to their cars, find out the supercharger crashed after 30 seconds and no one noticed, then see that their batteries are dead because an atlas robot is struggling to learn the floss dance.

It's a major unforced error by Musk -- which to be fair happen to be the majority of his errors.

With the non compete clause void (which should have always been the case), Musk is just creating his own competition.

Is it really so? The specs are open, and Tesla has been permissive about letting other companies use their patents, but what would happen if they changed their minds?

NACS is essentially CCS in a Tesla plug, so the only reason there isn't any yet is that nobody has made the switch yet - any CCS charger could be converted by just swapping the plug.
But it also means passive adapters work and are cheap, so there's no hurry really.

Honestly, EV-Go or Electrify America building NACS chargers isn't going to fix anything. The plug isn't what makes the Supercharger network appealing, it's the fact they ensure the stations are ubiquitous, fully functional, and the payment is seamless. If he's throwing out the team that is making sure those things continue to be true, the charging problem is only going to get worse.

If anything, it was a major coup by Tesla to make their plug the standard when they have the largest existing charging network for that plug. Now they're in a position of letting other networks catch up.

This decision is bafflingly stupid. Is firing people the only way Musk can get hard anymore?

How many non-tesla nacs charges are there?

So the company had a downturn, and has to cut costs to maintain profitability. Charging is not the core product, so why spend money on it. It almost makes sense.

Musk does have a habit of making large single-minded bets and it surely takes a giga-ego to do that. His rise was based on some of those being correct, but we’ll see if this one is