Nintendo Switch 2 Will Be A "Conservative Hardware Evolution"; To Feature Full Backward Compatibility, 1080p Screen

Switch going to be conservative, meanwhile the deck clones are going all out. Wonder how those will run switch 2 emulators.

Kind of tangential, but can you do local multiplayer when emulating the switch on a steam deck. Like can you have a 4 player Mario kart game?
- Sure. Just need to use some external controllers obviously.
- I don't see why you couldn't. Just connect multiple controllers and configure accordingly.
I regularly emulate Switch games on my RoG Ally Z1E, and it pulls it off so fucking well, I haven't touched my Switch since I got the thing (it easily runs every title I've thrown at it at 60fps+higher res, plus I have the ability to mod games if I need to.)

I can't imagine it'll be too difficult for them to emulate Switch 2 games, assuming Nintendo don't catch on to emulation developers too early.
They will probably use some version of DLSS that’s hard to emulate.
- Emulators will just run at higher resolutions instead of blurry upscaling anyway.
- Then we just disable it, and run the DLSS natively.
Honestly I'll "take" a low power switch 2 with the expectation of eventually emulating it with enhancements.
Wonder how those will run switch 2 emulators.

Well, considering Nintendo is on a war path and legally threatening emulator devs, I doubt anyone will even attempt a Switch 2 emulator.
- I'd put everything I own and my literal life betting someone will make one. It's happened for literally everything else, the switch 2 won't be different.
- Would be hard going after devs that don't blatantly make money off it like Yuzu did. Would also be pretty hard going after anonymous devs not using US based version control or just private. Lot of countries don't care about DMCA either. Yuzu was just very stupid but Nintendo in the worst case isn't all powerful either.
- You underestimate how masochistic Nintendo fans are.
  
  They will be working, Ninjas be damned.

Interesting, so in between lawsuits and takedowns they still do game related stuff from time to time huh?

One thing is certain,
due to all those lawsuits and takedowns,
I won't be buying into their next console,
they won't get a single dime from me anymore.

But who will buy their $70 Wii U/Wii ports? :p
What have they done recently that made you decide not to buy from them, that they haven't already been doing for 30+ years to begin with? Nintendo's lawsuits against emulator devs aren't a new phenomenon; they've been shutting down emulator/ROM projects since the 90s.
- They might have been doing it for longer then I've been aware of.
  
  But this is a (small) list of things that caught my attention and made me despise them:
  
  Garry's Mod takedowns
  
  Yuzu + Citra takedowns
  
  Relic Castle takedown
  
  Palworld Mod takedowns
  
  BOTW Mod takedowns
  
  PointCrow DMCAs
  
  Gary Bowser's life ruined
Nintendo consoles are great for piracy if that’s your bag

Wow, modern technology has really progressed, can't wait to play tears of the kingdom still at 30 fps

You can already play it comfortably in 60 fps, but not on Nintendo hardware.

Last time they tried a slight upgrade to not rock the boat and maintain backward compatibility was the WiiU.

That was the Wii actually. It being a slightly up clocked Gamecube. The WiiU was a massive hardware upgrade from the Wii at the time. The WiiU just had a host of other problems.
- The Wii: Two GameCube glued together with funky remote controllers
  
  The Wii U: Two Wii glued together with a funky remote controller... With a screen!
  
  You can play GameCube games on the Wii U via USB by hacking the Wii part of the console, Nintendo just had a little bit more work to do to make it natively compatible...
- Eh yes but they really rocked the boat with the Wii going to motion wands and those Wii characters.
- The WiiU was one of my favourite consoles.

Probably why they're going after the emulators. Sounds like this thing is still well within reach of emulation, probably in the first couple of months of release.

I think up until the 3DS, console hardware was still somewhat specialised, to the point where you can't 100% accurately emulate old cobsoles. But at the level we currently are, consoles a little more than all-purpose computers. Emulating then is only down to having enough computational power.
- A lot of old consoles are actually based on standard CPUs for the most part. Look at the history of the 6502 for example. Emulating the hardware can be done if time is taken to reverse engineer all the layers into an emulator.
  
  Part of the issue, to me, can be if all the work is done and then copyright disputes arise- all work has to be removed from the public.
- At this point you can write the circuitry in SPICE and the chips in Verilog and simulate the whole old console clock by clock down to the transistor level and still get a playable game out of it
  
  Of course this is only viable until say... before the 3D era or so

I can't wait to see Nintendo's new underpowered console. I'm sure they won't completely miss the mark again.

1080p?! We're living in the future, guys!

Considering all of the PC handhelds being released, 1080p is the best you can really do on a handheld screen with modernish games. Steam Deck is the most successful and it is only 800p. Having a 1440 or 2160 screen would decimate battery with little to no benefit.
- That's my point. Nintendo only about to have a 1080p screen does not seem like as big of a selling point as it would have been say, 7 years ago.
Screen size plays a role

Even if you can put an 8k screen in your 15cm profile. There isn’t any reason to do it
I love the Switch form factor, specifically the detachable controllers. I thought it was idiotic when I first saw the commercials but I love it. I don't care about AAA graphics on a portable, it is a little baby screen anyway. Cel shading, let's go, IDGAF.

Unfortunately they are making shitty Zeldas now so I'll probably not buy this one. If someone makes decent Linux hardware with detachable controllers I'd consider that.
- Botw and sequel are critically acclaimed across the board.
- Have you tried the new Zelda games.
- That first reveal commercial, where a guy is on his couch playing BotW, and then he realizes it's time go go, breaks his controller up, slides the joycons onto the side of the console and then lifts it out of the dock to keep playing on the train? Great.
  
  ...Then there's two solid minutes of what I call "yeah yeah and." You can put down the kickstand and put it on an airline tray table (which is a lie; the kickstand is extremely far to the side and the universe does not contain a surface the Switch will balance on. Bring your Ryobi 18V hot glue gun I guess). Yeah, yeah, and each joycon can be turned sideways and each becomes its own shitty tiny controller so you can try to play 2 player split screen on a display the size of my tongue. Yeah yeah and you can put the tablet down and play like, chess or some shit across the table from someone. Yeah Yeah And.
- Get an Steam Deck lol
If that's how the console turns out then I expect them to make up that difference in the cost. I'll be happy with a modest console as long as it has full backwards compatible and it's not priced at the steam deck
I too like to buy my hardware solely based on a spec sheet.

I honestly don't care about "underpowered hardware" and other similar crap. I do care about having to pay a sub just to get cloud saves, Nintendo's excessively restrictive policies, their obsession with litigating fans, their frustrating inability to understand modern multiplayer, and their increasing desire to rehash the same games many times.

The only reason I owned a Switch was for on-the-go gaming because gaming on phones is a joke, and now I have a Steam Deck.

their obsession with litigating fans

Yeah this is why I'm not a customer of theirs anymore. At this point I'm 100% a PC gamer.
I was gonna say something about needing powerful hardware before I realized the game I was gonna reference as an example was nothing but rushed out code held together by dollar store glue.
- This is usually (and sadly) the case.

Man, nintendo just needs to stop. Ugh. "Heres our NEW underperforming console! Get ready to play severely inferior ports of popular 3rd party games, everyone! We've ensured that only nintendo games will run well on our new console and nothing else because we dont actually want these vastly superior games from 3rd parties to outclass our nintendo developed games!". Why is it so hard for them to actually release something that's is on equal grounds with everything else? They spending all their coin on their precious DMCAs' or something? Also, fuck nintendo. Fuck them, fuck their inferior hardware and fuck their severe hatred of the fans. Seriously, I'm noticing a trend here. Either you are forced to play their games, which really aren't THAT great and mostly weird, or you're forced to play other 3rd party games, select ones at that, with severely inferior standards and performance. It's like they're trying to discourage any quality games out there from playing on their hardware on purpose because it's nintendo games or the highway, and that fits their aggressively anticonsumer mindset too. Another great indicator of this is why they refuse to let their characters appear in Fortnite. The kinda funny podcast did a piece on this. Here's a shocker: they literally said they don't want their characters in the game because it wasn't on their hardware exclusively. How childish is that? They are literally the only ones who won't do it. Microsoft and Sony were OK with having Kratos, Master Chief, Aloy, etc, DC was cool with sharing their IPs, Marvel was cool with it, MHA, DragonBall, Kaizen, AOT were cool with it, Fox was cool with sharing Family guy, Konami was cool with sharing Snake, Capcom was cool with sharing SF, hell, WE EVEN GOT JACK SKELLINGTON IN IT, but NOPE, Nintendo can't play nice. Shocking.

Guess what, Nintendo? Due to your outrageous behavior with emulation and lawsuits, along with your stupid takedowns (GMOD NINTENDO? FUCKING GMOD?), or how you ruined a mans life all because he chipped your garbage hardware, including how much you hate your fans who only wanted to celebrate you, I wont be giving you another fucking dime. I was never really much of a pirate, but when it comes to you? I am now. Get FUCKED you anticonsumerist dirtbags.

If a Nintendo console was comparable to other consoles in the same generation, would the games be more fun?
If not, then what's the point? Many SNES games are more fun than the vast majority of technically superior games out this year.
"They should make the graphics better so... that... the graphics would be better" isn't a super compelling argument.
My question is "what's going to make me stop playing my games on the Switch and play them on this instead".
My concern is that this is going to end up causing library fragmentation like the WiiU and the New 3DS. The Game Boy Color added color to its predecessor, the New 3DS added... slightly faster polygon calculations? I don't even know. Some games required the better processor but I couldn't tell you what they did with it. Maybe they just got away with worse optimization.
- Idk, I'm not saying I care about graphics specifically, just that equal hardware would allow more 3rd party games to utilize it. The thing that is stopping people from enjoying those games on other consoles is money. People don't want to buy multiple systems. All I'm saying is I think nintendo should make decent hardware so that users can play the 3rd party games they want on their Nintendo system instead of buying at minimum another console.
- I agree with this mostly, but at the same time more powerful hardware lets the devs experiment with more advanced mechanics. For example, ToTK runs pretty hard into switch limitations with its impressive physics. If Nintendo wanted to take that engine even further, they'd likely need a hardware upgrade.
  
  Additionally, more powerful hardware starts putting more demanding mechanics into the realm of possibility for an indie dev team that has neither the time nor the resources to optimize their games at the same level as a big studio.
Nintendo is too Japanese
The switch is the 3rd best selling console ever. They are clearly doing something right. You're comparing a portable handheld to PCs and plug-in consoles.

I'm pleased that's it's underpowered because it ensures their games perform well on emulators.
If you're buying a Nintendo console for 3rd party games you're going about it all wrong tbh
- Yeah, that's true. I just think it's bullshit how anti consumer they are. Sure, you're right, but also like really, Nintendo?

Honestly, i wouldn't have expect anything different. Any lack of back-compatibility would have been a suicide move.

I hope games will be able to hit 60fps stable or offer some type of 40hz minimums for the higher refresh rate TVs.

Resolution is important, but if the games still perform like they do now, I’d be disappointed.

I think Nintendo will probably try to hit a great pricepoint for parents instead of high performance. The last powerful Nintendo console that I'm aware of was the Gamecube.
- The Wii U was technically the most powerful console on the market for a year until the XB1 and PS4 came out.

In this thread: completely out of touch gamers shitting on the world's second best selling console of all time.

In this context "gamers" means "chronically online gamers". the 3% of people they actually complain about this kind of stuff that would not change anyway
I thought you were exaggerating, and then I scrolled down.

I am surprised it won’t be more of a hardware improvement since the switch was released in 2017 so there has been a whole lot of new hardware to choose from since then. I would imagine there would be bigger improvements in GPU with the better Radeon offerings.

The problem is that Nintendo wants to be the affordable console parents buy for kids, and if the hardware costs $600 then it won’t be that.
- I looked at the Switch price last week and it actually went up since release (in Canada anyway).
Why would you think that? Nintendo has consistently had the weakest console hardware for the last 3 generations of consoles. People buy up anything with the Nintendo brand on it, what incentive do they have to make an actually good product? They already removed themselves from competing with Sony and Microsoft in a move great for their business but abysmal for consumers.

Full backward compatibility is definitely great to see, if it didn't have it I probably wouldn't pick it up for a few years

What does that matter when they drip-feed the older games they own? 2 a month!? Virtual Console games that existed on Wii U and 3DS are simply not there...

Honestly, that sounds nice to me.

Is it me or do they always promise backwards compatibility and then find some cockamamie horseshit at the last minute on why it just wasn't possible. I might be a little scarred from previous promises (not specific to Nintendo).

Wii had backwards compatibility, same with Wii U. Switch couldn’t use disk so it couldn’t be. All the Gameboys had it. Super Nintendo as well. 3Ds and DS had it. Nintendo often do it.
- Super Nintendo was not backward compatible.
- The DS even had backwards compatibility with the GBA. I think it didn't work with GB/C games though for some reason.
  
  Someone else already pointed out that the Super Nintendo wasn't backwards compatible. The SNES' competitor was backwards compatible though -- an optional accessory for the Mega Drive/Genesis allowed you to play Master System games!
That's not the case. GB > GBC > GBA > GBA SP. GC > Wii > Wii U.
- Also: GBA > DS (early models), and DS > 3DS
- I don't think the SP was a different console though

Don't count your hens I remember when all the consoles had backwards compatibility, until they didn't.

Every PlayStation generation had backwards compatibility followed quickly by a cheaper "slim" version without it.
- The PS2 and PS5 slim versions didn't mess with backwards compatibility, just the PS3 ~~and PS4.~~

I wonder of “conservative hardware evolution” in this context just means that it’ll still be a switch, just with upgraded internals.

The fact that the built-in screen might be 1080p implies a decent leap in performance. That’s twice as many pixels as a 720p/800p screen.

Marketing for "the hardware will be outdated sh1t".

They planned and designed switch 2 a few years ago and are only releasing it now. The hardware will be less powerful than a mid-range smartphone. But it will be better than switch 1. So, evolution, right?
They really need to give it more powerful processors. It felt like a shame that Tears of the Kingdom ran so poorly that it was uncomfortable to play.

Nintendo's games deserve better hardware.

On a related note, why don't they put a GPU in the dock so that the games can run much better when connected to a TV?

I think that's what we expected? I don't think anything else would make sense. Although I miss small handhelds like GBA or 3DS.

The problem to me isn't so much that their hardware has been underpowered, that's been a thing for like 20 years at this point, since the release of the gamecube or therabouts. The problem to me is that they've been incredibly unambitious this generation in terms of making their console something that has an appealing form factor compared to it's potential competitors, not just in the ps5 and whatever the new xbox is, but with the mobile gaming handhelds like the steam deck, which can apparently pretty easily emulate most of the switch's library and also serve a bunch of other functions.

I know that the hardcore gaming audience really disliked the motion controls as a central gimmick of the wii, but I really thought it was fun, pretty decent, and that now, with the switch, the technology has actually become good and not a flickery unstable half-mess. The only motion control stuff I can think of is mario party, 1-2 switch, which is old and nobody played, and some aiming mechanics in other games like splatoon or the new zeldas. For a console that is as easily positioned for casual multiplayer as it is, they've been consistently very iffy with their output on that front. Combine this with a a resurgence of shitty management practices like their litigiousness, charging more for subscription based access to their older games library, charging for online play, and it's kind of made me reticent to engage with the switch that I have and reluctant to engage with any new console they might put out.

I'm also going to keep banging the drum that the switch is the most optimally positioned console for playing all of nintendo's library. If they had wireless connectivity to the dock, probably the hardware wouldn't be good enough to run it, but you could theoretically run both DS games and Wii U games. Obviously, the console's already suited well for Wii games, and the rest of their backcatalogue before that. With only their recent library they could provide a pretty good alternative to actual emulation alternatives, but instead it seems they'd rather take a much less effective route.

Also they could probably make it a pretty easy VR experience as they've shown with the cardboard shit they had, but fuck that I guess, easier just to do absolutely nothing.

The very first sentence of your post is wrong. The GameCube was more powerful than the PS2, making it the second most powerful console of that generation, just behind the Xbox.

... the rest of your post is pretty decent though...

Interestingly (and understandably), doesn't actually say too much about internals. If the new target is 1080p portable, though, that's a decent bump in specs.

By running games at 20 fps
- 20fps maximum, likely closer to 5fps average once the power is unplugged.

And I'll just hold my breath until it comes.

Never give Nintendo money.

I'm curious to see how this goes. Nintendo really is the only company I'd consider buying a console from anymore. Sure, they're hardware isn't very powerful, but it's pretty hard to justify an Xbox or Playstation when a good gaming PC is a better long-term investment. Nintendo, for all if its faults, is constantly innovating what a system can be, while it's competitors just release the same product with upgraded graphics.

That being said, the Switch 2 sounds like exactly that: a slightly upgraded switch without any real innovation. Usually, even Nintendo's failures are interesting, like the Virtual Boy or the Wii U. They almost never release a slightly upgraded product (the only exception being the Game Boy Pocket, which they only made because the Virtual Boy flopped)

No matter what you think of Nintendo as a company, the industry does better when they're pushing the envelope. For all the (well deserved) praise the Steam Deck gets, it wouldn't exist if the Switch hadn't laid the groundwork for it. I'd much rather see Nintendo take a big swing, like integrating AR or VR, into a less powerful system than see them push out a next gen Switch every 5 years. Hopefully there's more to the Switch 2 than just a hardware upgrade, or else Nintendo (and maybe even consoles in general) might be in trouble.

I think you're forgetting the Nintendo DS family.

One of them was literally just named "New Nintendo 3DS".
- Fair enough, I didn't realize how much repetition there was in that line, although I would say that the 3DS was a pretty big innovation over the DS. It's also a testament to their willingness to take big swings that the would go back to the concept of a 3D handheld after the Virtual Boy debacle.
- There is one device missing. The original 3ds xl. Yes there is the new 3ds xl but there is also the regular 3ds xl

great emulation device

Will you people stop complaining about the switch being underpowered? Why does it have to be powerful? If you want something powerful, don't buy it. Simple as that.

It's not only that thw Switch is underpowered, it's poorly optimized, if you install windows on it and then run Yuzu, it will run better than the console itself.
- I sincerely doubt that. I don't doubt its poorly optimized, but it does its job. It just isn't a job that most people here want done.

And bigger lawsuits. This time against anyone remotely looking like any of the characters.... Think twice before wearing a Mario red hat!.... looking at you red hat Linux and you MAGA, an Mr. Johnson with his running bandana and Mike too, always wearing a red hat of some sort which makes him look like Mario. Yeah Mike, we know what you're doing and we're coming after you and your blog!

I don't need it.