Semiautomatic firearm ban passes Colorado's House, heads to Senate
Semiautomatic firearm ban passes Colorado's House, heads to Senate
Colorado’s Democratic-controlled House has passed a bill that would ban the sale and transfer of semiautomatic firearms.
Colorado’s Democratic-controlled House on Sunday passed a bill that would ban the sale and transfer of semiautomatic firearms, a major step for the legislation after roughly the same bill was swiftly killed by Democrats last year.
The bill, which passed on a 35-27 vote, is now on its way to the Democratic-led state Senate. If it passes there, it could bring Colorado in line with 10 other states — including California, New York and Illinois — that have prohibitions on semiautomatic guns.
But even in a state plagued by some of the nation’s worst mass shootings, such legislation faces headwinds.
Colorado’s political history is purple, shifting blue only recently. The bill’s chances of success in the state Senate are lower than they were in the House, where Democrats have a 46-19 majority and a bigger far-left flank. Gov. Jared Polis, also a Democrat, has indicated his wariness over such a ban.
I'll give up my guns when the cops do it first.
I hope you can fight!
You gonna win a shootout with cops?
This will get struck down, and it'll be the one thing I agree with when it does. You can't just make everything except bolt-action rifles illegal. Semi-automatic firearms encompasses 99% of what people use for self defense in America. This is a clear violation of rights.
Right or wrong it’s a constitutional right for a reason, and that reason has nothing to do with hunting.
Similar to GOP and abortion, dems need to drop this fight. Let’s fix healthcare and save/improve more lives than almost everything else you could spend time on.
I wish beyond wishing that O'rourke would have just shut the fuck up and deferred about coming after people's guns in Texas. I really wonder if he could've squeaked a victory and Texas would be quite different today. Guns are a losing issue. Even more so than abortion or 'the gays!', guns bring single-issue voters out from everywhere.
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Agreed. The 2A is a right, full stop. Doesn't matter if you or I like it, the courts agree, and have historically.
You'll get a dozen dumb arguments, but none will address the fact of the 2A. And there's no way it gets overturned given our amendment procedures.
This is actually a pretty dumb stunt. It's going to lose in court, zero doubt. And now there's more precedence.
Lever-Action FTW! ;)
Guess I’ll have to go chain-fed
You can’t just make everything except bolt-action rifles illegal.
Britain did.
And if we're going on the intent of the founders, they mostly had muzzle-loaders in mind. They certainly didn't consider automatic weapons able to fire huge amounts of bullets extremely quickly.
Britain doesn't have a 2nd Amendment.
Now, if you want to repeal it, sure, there's a process for that...
Start by getting 290 votes in the House. The same body that struggles to get a simple 218 vote majority to decide who their own leader is.
Then you get 67 votes in the Senate. The same body that struggles to get 60 votes to overcome a filibuster.
Then, assuming you get all that, you need ratification from 38 states. In 2020, Biden and Trump split the states 25/25. So you need ALL the Biden states (good luck getting Georgia!) and 13 Trump states. For every Biden state you lose, you need +1 Trump state.
Was discussing this recently. A big bit of context that is important is how the founders intended for the military to be organized for their fledgling nation. Their intent was that there be no standing army because all of the powers that they knew that had them used them for imperialism and tyranny. So, the intent was to prevent states from getting in the way of raising regular (trained and uniformed) and irregular (anyone who could shoulder a musket) militia, should it be necessary to defend the nation against an incursion from a hostile power.
Now, it's been well over a hundred years since the US has had a standing army. While that does not technically invalidate the Second Amendment, it does make it an anachronism that doesn't fit in the context of the modern world. It should have been re-legislated as soon as a standing army became a thing.
Now, if only there were a mechanism built into the US Constitution to allow it to be updated to fit the needs of the nation. Maybe they could have called them "Changements". /s
They certanly did, as Thomas Jefferson owned two of them, each carrying 35 rounds of .29mm. One is on display at Monticello, the one he lent to the Lewis & Clark Expedition that was used to successfully defeat a 50-man raiding party, is kept at The Smithsonian.
Agreed! It's UNCONSTITUTIONAL to have ANY form of Regulation on Arms! Why is it ILLEGAL for me to not be able to own a Grenade Launcher? UNCONSTITUTIONAL!
Hey folks, this comment above mine is what's called a 'straw-man' fallacy. It's when you don't have an argument against for the specific argument being stated, so you invent another similar but significantly different argument to argue against instead. The first comment states that it's ridiculous to ban semi auto firearms when that's the vast majority of guns you can buy, and the second commenter instead argues that they should be legally allowed to own a grenade launcher in sarcasm as an attempt to show how firearm legal restrictions are a good thing as they prevent the ownership of grenade launchers.
Also, it's legal to own a grenade launcher in the US. It's just not legal to own the grenades. Plus, a grenade launcher is really just any 37mm chambered weapon. It could fire grenades, flares, or smoke bombs. They're also single shot weapons, so a semi-auto ban isn't going to cover them.
Your use of randomly capitalized words does not, at all, make you look like a child screaming because his mom said no McDonalds. Definitely not.
I mean, it'd be kind of fun...
Supreme Court shoots it down in 3-2-1...
The Heller ruling in 2008 already decided this.
Washington D.C. had effectively banned pistols, the court ruled then:
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/554/570/
"As the quotations earlier in this opinion demonstrate, the inherent right of self-defense has been central to the Second Amendment right. The handgun ban amounts to a prohibition of an entire class of “arms” that is overwhelmingly chosen by American society for that lawful purpose. The prohibition extends, moreover, to the home, where the need for defense of self, family, and property is most acute. Under any of the standards of scrutiny that we have applied to enumerated constitutional rights,[Footnote 27] banning from the home “the most preferred firearm in the nation to ‘keep’ and use for protection of one’s home and family,” 478 F. 3d, at 400, would fail constitutional muster."
So, no, you can't ban an entire class of weapon.
So, no, you can’t ban an entire class of weapon.
You absolutely can. Full-auto weapons are banned for general purchase in pretty much every state. Things like explosive-based guns are also banned. Flame-throwers, etc.
Heller is a clear violation of state's rights to pass more-restrictive laws than the federal level. We've had tons of gun laws that restrict purchases and types of firearms for decades anyways on the state and local level.
General purchase, yes, but you can still buy one if you fill out the appropriate ATF paperwork and pay the HUGE transfer fees.
https://www.therange702.com/blog/can-you-legally-own-a-machine-gun/
"To legally own a machine gun, you first have to apply for approval from the federal government. After purchasing the gun, you must fill out an ATF Form 4 application and wait for approval before taking possession of the firearm. The FBI conducts a thorough background check using fingerprints and a photograph required with your application, which could take 9 to 12 months to process. The gun will need to stay in possession of the previous owner until the process is complete.
In addition, you will need to pay a $200 “NFA tax stamp” for each weapon transaction. If approved, you will receive your paperwork in the mail, including a permit with the listed lawful possessor of the firearm. Only then can you take the machine gun home and possess it legally."
This Colorado ruling doesn't allow for that.
According to Interstate Commerce and the Supremacy Clauses, the States actually do not have that right, they just haven't been sued on those grounds directly.
The whole bit about being primarily used for a lawful purpose seems important.
.
Why? Does any other right depend on that?
Maybe it isn't a right and maybe it was a temporary provision for a frontier society to quickly setup a temporary army to deal with slave revolts.
So, no, you can’t ban an entire class of weapon.
I don't know about that. In general, rocket-propelled weapons and land mines are not legal for ownership. You even need special dispensation to own a fully automatic machine gun.
Those are explosives, completely different deal from firearms. Supreme court ruled on that too, Caetano, 2016:
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/577/411/
“The Second Amendment covers all weapons that may be defined as 'bearable arms,' even if they did not exist when the Bill of Rights was drafted and are not commonly used in warfare."
Caetano is really my favorite of these rulings because it started out having nothing to do with guns.
Woman, scared of her ex, bought a stun gun for protection. Massachusetts arrested her, stated "stun guns didn't exist back then, no 2nd Amendment right to a stun gun."
Court "um, actually'd" them pretty hard.
So, you can't ban a class of gun (Heller, 2008) and you can't ban a bearable arm just because it didn't exist 200 years ago (Caetano, 2016.)
And the court has only gotten MORE conservative since then, not less. :( This new ban is going to go nowhere fast, shame Colorado taxpayers are going to have to pay for a losing case.
You can own both of those things, you just need the explosives permit from the BAFTE, and they are very strict about the permitting and furthermore the storage, etc of those items. If you don't mind the FBI examining your butthole and the buttholes of everyone you know, along with massive fees and regular inspections of the items and their storage facility, then have at it.
This just seems like a stupid time to be pressing legislation like this. I don't even disagree with it myself. I just think it's idiotic from a political perspective. The Dems can see the GoP struggling with the fall out of Roe v. Wade, and they still want to step into this fight now?
Imagine still wanting gun control people after January 6th 2021 and the police violence of the George floydd protests.
We're on our own, stop hiding your heads in the sand.
The only 2021 protests where people weren't getting their eyes shot out by pepperballs and beanbags were the ones where people were armed. Message fucking received.
It's not a "Semi-Automatic Firearm Ban" it's an Assault Weapons Tax. Seriously the only penalties in this bill are modest ($750) fines.
No matter which side of this debate you are on this legislation is a joke.
Are we reading the same link?
A person in violation of the prohibitions will be assessed a first-time penalty of $250,000 and $500,000 for each subsequent violation.
Here's the actual text of the bill. Do you find that dollar amount listed anywhere but in the summary?
Like the "End Hedge fund ownership of residential properties" bill that is just a tax on hedge funds that own over 100 residences, a tax that they will happily pass on to their tenants (after adding another 25% on top to cover the emotional cost of being taxed by the evil government!).
Laws don't have teeth in this country because they are always designed to only punish the poor.
This will never get past the Supreme Court because it is blatantly unconstitutional.
Nice job wasting money posturing for your base, colorado democrats.
You're just like the grifters in florida.
People would still have access to the OG weapons that the Constitution was talking about?
Yeah I definitely remember the words "smoothbore musket" in the 2A. People thinking this law is a good idea have huge "but I love my local PD, they're so helpful and I never get so much as a ticket, just flirt a little" energy.
I'll take that deal if we can replace cops with militias too.
If only Americans could be like the Swiss, y’all could have your guns and none of the problems.
Our ability to self govern is non-existent. We can't even put shopping carts in the return carousel. We definitely won't take gun ownership seriously.
Conservatives are demanding the widespread oppression and even slaughter of our nation's most vulnerable groups and the best we can come up with is "let's disarm ourselves". FFS
Why not outlaw far-right ideologies like nazism? The conservatives would oppose that too, but it's something all the normal people can agree on.
While not opposed to the last statement it would be a terrible idea in the real world with corrupt government
Because of the 1st amendment. Kind of the foundation of the USA outside money.
I think you're missing the hyperbole in their statement. They're suggesting they're both misguided ideas.
We could also argue, but the 2nd Amendment protects the 1st.Sounds like a loophole in the 1st amendment that needs fixing.
If the government ever decides to take up arms against us, we are already screwed even with the massive oversupply of civilian weapons of war.
Isn't that like... most guns people actually use other than some shotguns and some handguns? And even then, why you would use a pump action over a semi-automatic shotgun is beyond me...
My .22 varmint rifle is semiauto. They take those too?
Sounds like it’s only a ban on sale and transfer. Keep that gun.
I is. It was a birfday giff from ma mamaw
They can't even report things correctly. If I'm not mistaken this bill bans semiautomatic rifles only. Otherwise it would ban most modern handguns. It would be almost instantly overturned.
I don't expect this to go over well with the federal supreme court...
We've already established a line that some weapons are too dangerous for the general public. I wonder why states can't draw the line of what weapons it considers are too dangerous.
We have already established that some speech is too dangerous to be allowed in public. I wonder why states can't decide what we are allowed to say or not.
Oh wait, I don't. If you have an issue understanding opposition to a gun control law, try replacing gun with speech and see if you see the problem. Both are equally constitutionally protected rights.
I first read they ban semiautomatic fire alarms, and was wondering why and what even a semiautomatic fire alarm is
An electronic voice:
Stupid human - your building seems to be burning. May I sound the alarm now?
How about now?
Perhaps before you die of smoke inhalation, then?
Hello?
What would they say if people started mass knifing?
I imagine there'd be discussion regarding how we might restrict a person's ability to publicly and freely stab multiple people ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Which is the correct course of action. People should not be allowed to murder people, and things should be done to make it harder to do.
In 2014 there was this guy in Taiwan that started mass knifing people in the MRT Train station. The MOST he was able to stab was 22 people and killed 4.
He actually had to sit down to rest before continuing to stab people because he was tired. In a documentary, he trained for months to have the stamina to maximize kills. It would be different if he had a handgun let alone a AR-15.
Taiwan is a total ban for all guns.
Seems like your stupid comment backfired.
That seems similar to the numbers that most "mass shooters" end up getting.
I dunno. Check back in with us when that starts happening anywhere other than inside of your head.
At least something is happening inside my head.
Cool.
Now pass some laws banning hate speech, and regulate what religions can and can't talk about; the pope has no business saying that transgender ideology is sinful! While they're at it, they should make sure that criminal defendants are required to confess if they have committed a crime, and it would probably be a lot easier to just forbid lawyers from working with people charged with crimes. Oh, and ban pot and booze, since those and TikTok are going to be the downfall of the youth.
This still allows bolt action for hunting, revolvers and shotguns for defense. That should be plenty. If you're spraying a dozen+ rounds in your own home for defense you're more of a danger than an intruder at that point.
Democrats last year passed and Polis signed into law four less-expansive gun control bills. Those included raising the age for buying any gun from 18 to 21; establishing a three-day waiting period between the purchase and receipt of a gun; strengthening the state’s red flag law; and rolling back some legal protections for the firearms industry, exposing it to lawsuits from the victims of gun violence.
Common-sense gun regulation.
Republicans decried the legislation as an onerous encroachment on the U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment. They argued that mental illness and people who do not value life — not guns — are the issues that should be addressed. People with ill intent can use other weapons, such as knives, to harm others, they argued.
Lol. And yet healthcare is something Republicans fight against constantly. And "people who do not value life" is great from the forced-birth and no social safety nets crowd.
Democrats responded that semiautomatic weapons can cause much more damage in a short period of time.
Exactly. If you're incredibly viscous and lucky you can get a lot of people, but rarely double digits with a hand-held blade. With a semi-automatic rifle you can get dozens with someone untrained. And we've seen it happen. Multiple times.
.
I fundamentally don’t understand the fixation on pistol grips and thumb holes and threaded barrels. At least they left that last one off for shotguns.
Not really what this post is about, but can we get rid of the "common sense gun laws" mantra already? It's implying that anyone who disagrees with it, for ANY reason, doesn't have common sense. It's not good for having a meaningful discussion on how we can work together to deal with this problem.
Personally, I don't think guns are the underlying issue here. While I am not against regulation, I think plenty of events show that without firearms tragedies will still occur. So it would only be a small part of preventing these sort of events.
Gun culture is a major issue, even beyond the guns themselves. "Come and take em" and "fuck around and find out" are symptoms of a mentality that guns are a solution to solving problems that's on par with discussion, leaving, or de-escalating. When ultimately, guns are the final answer that should only be used when all other options have been exhausted.
Socioeconomic pressures and inequality issues need to be addressed to deal with most gun crimes, since mass shootings are the minority cases in which gun deaths occur. Yes, when they happen they are atrocious and make headlines and everyone hears and talks about it, but when people are dieing literally every day from guns we can't only focus on the events that catch media attention.
Mental health, and by extension, all health needs to be made a priority. Suicides by guns is by and far the most common method.
Media needs to stop stoking fear and divisiveness. We see too often than someone reacts with extreme actions to perceived threats that aren't really there. They've been primed to be afraid ALL THE TIME. So when someone knocks at the wrong door or uses their driveway to turn around they violent "protect" themselves from a threat that never existed.
Stop the worshipping of property. It is NEVER worth the taking of life to protect property. This goes back to gun culture where people believe that using a gun to protect their own shit is somehow a valid solution. This also extends to the police. Fuck them for violently protecting property over people.
Fix the police problem. At the very least, teach them fucking patience. At every point they try to end a non-violent interaction as fast as possible that they are often the ones to escalate to violence. Unless someone's life is directly and immediately threatened, chill the fuck out.
Personally, I don’t think guns are the underlying issue here. While I am not against regulation, I think plenty of events show that without firearms tragedies will still occur
Yes but it's literally the magnitude of it, which I covered.
They specifically banned the rifle I like shooting: Daniel Defense M4A1.
Guns aren’t just for hunting or defense. I wasn’t on board until I went to the range. I’m now a fan of rifles.
I’m not a huge fan of California spec rifles. Unless you buy multiple mags, switching out is a pain.
Now what WOULD be neat, is if I could buy the rifle and then purchase a magazine of ammo at the range, returning the magazine and unspent ammo at the counter
Guns aren’t just for hunting or defense. I wasn’t on board until I went to the range. I’m now a fan of rifles.
I'm going to say that hobbies are less important than public safety.
I do agree with your notion about restricting ammo. I believe Switzerland does that. We'd also need to restrict ammo components because otherwise you'd just have people reloading (making bullets) at home.
I would argue that hunting, defense, and sport are not reasons we have the right to bear arms. Its to overthrow a tyrannical government.
And that's why I appendix carry a S&W 500. One shot, anywhere in meat, is a show stopper.
I feel like a better option here would be limits on magazine capacities. Limiting internal and box magazine capacities to 5-10 rounds on semiautomatic firearms could have the same effect without it being an outright ban. Maybe have different capacities for handguns and rifles.
This is just more ammo (heh) for 2nd Amendment voters. Being a bit more clever about it could convince some of them to drop their resistance.
California did it and IIRC, that's going to the Supremes this year?
Yeah, CA's law has twice been overturned by federal judges (but is being allowed to stay in effect for now) and is on its way to the SC.
If you read this, after this is struck down i want you to remember this bill the next time you read about another mass shooting. I know youre numb to them but realize they arent normal for developed countries.