Android 15 will run Bluetooth with your phone still turned off.
Posted by Dave Kleidermacher, VP Engineering, Android Security and Privacy Keeping people safe and their data secure and private is a t...
I saw this on infinity for Reddit earlier, I don't know if there's a workaround for this or not.
They talk as if they're protecting our privacy when it's really a global surveillance net. The spin doctoring is insane.
Friendly reminder that Bluetooth has a larger network stack than Wi-Fi. Much more code, much larger available attack base. There have been many numerous Bluetooth vulnerabilities that allow remote code execution or theft of files.
This is truly becoming a surveillance state, in no way that can be debated. That want to be able to access everyone's innermost thoughts (texts, notes, recordings, calendars, contacts, photos, you get it) without any chance of someone being able to protect against it.
Reminder that Google was the 2nd or 3rd company to commit to NSA's PRISM program of feeding American's data for future analysis.
all of this
I really don't disagree with you, but it's so frustrating and tiring to try to work around all this stuff and use alternative tools that nobody else does, all while you're viewed as a paranoid tinfoil hat wearer. Yes I know I shouldn't care what other people think, but I also don't want to be alone forever.
"Privacy Sandbox" is just Google-controlled surveillance carried out with your phone/PC as the primary data provider. We've reached maximum perversion of the English language.
this sort of gaslighting through corruption of vernacular used to amuse me, but now I feel like the withering wojak face anymore
Straight up 1984 Newspeak, where the Ministry of Truth is really concerned with lies, the Ministry of Peace is concerned with war, the Ministry of Love is concerned with torture, and the Ministry of Plenty is concerned with starvation.
It's honestly Doublethink.
Whenever Google gets exposed for bad practices, people ignore it. And they believe this stuff is good or don't care.
Bruh, so when android phones are turned off they'll still waste energy locating people and sharing the location. And most phones don't have a removable battery! Fucking nuts.
According to the posted link, the network can be turned off entirely if you wish, and you could just not use Google Play Services on your device, and that should also stop this.
Oh yeah, you can totally turn it off. 🤫😉
On, that's fine. I wouldn't install that shit on my phone anyway.
As long as it's not in AOSP, no problem
the new google massive surveillance apparatus is ready to be deployed
What do you think Google Maps and GSF are
More like, already deployed, this is just the announcement.
Apple already does it with their iPhone, just saying.
I know
It's been on for years now. It's just more effective now and will continue to get more intrusive.
Where is that mentioned? I can't find that in the article
I also couldn't find a mention, and it definitely does not make sense (and likely isn't even possible) to run Bluetooth without Android itself running
...which uses a crowdsourced device-locating network to help you find your lost or misplaced devices and belongings quickly – even when they’re offline.
Maybe this line is being misinterpreted?
It's definitely possible. It may be using specific hardware to do the powered off tasks. Or it never be truly off, a small os running to managing these powered off tasks.
The second is more likely, it's cheaper and easier. It can also be applied to older devices and requires less integrated design.
It's mentioned in the linked article about Find My Device.
This is what it says
1. Locate offline devices
Locate your compatible Android phone and tablet by ringing them or viewing their location on a map in the app — even when they’re offline. And thanks to specialized Pixel hardware, Pixel 8 and 8 Pro owners will also be able to find their devices if they’re powered off or the battery is dead.
I don't know that means Bluetooth will be running when the device is off. "Specialized hardware" could mean a full Bluetooth modem on backup power, but more likely it's means there's a low power beacon. Would be interesting if anyone does a teardown of the Pixel 8.
For non-Pixel 8 devices, definitely not. I assume "Offline" refers to the case where your device doesn't have WiFi/LTE, but can still use Bluetooth to communicate with devices that do.
That is why we took our time when designing the new Find My Device, which uses a crowdsourced device-locating network to help you find your lost or misplaced devices and belongings quickly – even when they’re offline.
Didn't iPhone been doing it for years so you can still track your lost phone even if it's turned off?
But this is Android, I'm sure there'll be work around if you don't want it. Personally I think it could be helpful.
You turn it off. It says so in the link.
User Controls: Android users always have full control over which of their devices participate in the Find My Device network and how those devices participate. Users can either stick with the default and contribute to aggregated location reporting, opt into contributing non-aggregated locations, or turn the network off altogether.
Right, Google definitely a man of their words. Like they are definitely not record anything in your Incognito Chrome tabs.
Didn’t iPhone been doing it for years
You're trying to describe an action that has started in the past and is still taking place. "Didn't" is simple past which indicates a concluded action. The correct tense you'd want to use here is present perfect progressive --> "Hasn't iPhone been doing it for years".
Edit: Although, I missed the "been" in your sentence, so you just picked the wrong verb. Not too far off 👍
Pixel 7 with GrapheneOS is looking like a good long term choice right now.
Graphene is built on Android. If you enable all the gsf on graphene with android 15 it can probably still run in the background while off.
kinda what @null@slrpnk.net said, we should probably wait for graphineOS's expert opinion on the matter.
It seems like a waste of battery
OP blocked for clickbait.
Not a single mention in the article about whether Bluetooth is turned on or off.
Samsung has an opt in option for the Smart thing network. I guess Google will go the same route.
I think mod should step in and fix the title.
You're right that it's not at all what the article was saying.
I see HOW op got to that assumption.
RIP battery.
Depends how it's implemented, my bluetooth "smartwatch" runs for around 2 years on a single CR2032.
There is also Bluetooth low frequency thingy with less data transfer. I wonder what Google will do and use while being turned off.
Can someone explain where the code for this will be located (aosp, gsf)? How can I make sure that it will never ever be activated? What Graphene's response? etc
They said they won't support it https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/11520-android-find-my-device-when-powered-off/2
it looks like its going to be a hardware feature. if the main CPU is off, it implies the radio circuitry and its CPU (the BBM) are still powered. give google this at least, the special new Bluetooth API will be accessible to whatever OS is alive and awake to send commands (even if I don't trust that "off" means "off"). the fact that its using encryption (that's too complicated to be made out of Integrated Circut logic) means its likely another software feature added to the BBM co-processor (it handles all radio tasks on the phone). this all but confirms the BBM (at least going forward) will still get power, be awake and have access to the (transmit (TX) and reseave (RX) functions of the) radios even when everything else is properly off.
EDIT: or it could be an abuse of a generic BLE beacon mechanism that's "just there for whatever the consumer would need it for". but if they are doing proprietary encryption like they claim, that's not really possible without updating the BBM's software to add another feature.
damn that really sucks.. sounds like it may just be an OS/firmware change then that activates the radio controller?
either way this is is exactly why we need a new community built piece of hardware. we cannot keep being slaves to Google's whims just to use Graphene. i know there are other OS's but either way it's still Big Tech dependence.
This is mostly Bluetooth LE so that you can use their new device finder network if your phone gets lost. Thieves often turn off the phone as the first step, so this may help a lot of people recover their devices.
Not really. Thieves know how powerful aluminium is against waves
Yeah, was gonna say get a one of those rf blocking baggies or something
Thieves simply use tinfoil to block all signals. They have pockets and bags lined with tinfoil, they don't bother turning anything off.
Could still work against opportunity theft.
The question is: when a phone is turned off is it really turned off? The amount of software that needs to be running to manage Bluetooth leds to to believe they simply kill all applications (including the UI) and most services and leave the kernel and a few other things running. I might be wrong, but I would like to see some clarification on that.
You can turn off the phone???
Not completely. My understanding is that the baseband radio still always runs even when the application OS is shutdown, and it (often) has its own connections to the GPS, camera and microphone, sometimes even the filesystem (Samsung RFS). The battery not being removable makes this even more problematic IMO.
I guess the recommendation of turning off the Bluetooth to save battery, or the sarcastic comment that usually says "bro, just turn off the phone if you care too much about the battery" are gonna be obsolete now aren't they?
