Discord is nuking Nintendo Switch emulator devs and their entire servers
And perhaps sidestepping its own policy in the process.
Good, stop using Discord to host your shit
The article says the code was not hosted on discord. Even if it was, the code does not infringe on any Nintendo copyright. Having a grudge against discord doesn't make it fair to victim blame
Discord hosted the community, not the code. And that community is now destroyed without even a chance to backup. And Discord can absolutely be blamed because people were warning that this would happen. This is as much a result of Discord's centralized design as it is of Nintendo's greed. Now the community has to be reestablished on a new platform from scratch.
Discord sucks so much. I wish it wasn't so popular.
The company sucks and it being closed source with shitty security and privacy policy sucks but the software is still the best messaging, gaming, video/streaming experience if we’re being honest. Nothing has all the features and convenience when it comes to watching shows and gaming with friends. Theres also never been such an easy way for anyone to run their own irc/etc server with as many features and convenience/price as discord.
They are fulfilling a lot of needs and people won’t leave until something 10x better comes out and nothing is even at 1:1 quality in terms of video, voice, streaming, gaming. Some have messaging and history yes but not even bots and different channels/forums setup. Maybe MAYBE telegram if you’re a super user but and thats only for bots and chats no gaming, watching shows, etc
Well, that's one more small group of people learning not to trust Discord. I hope someone is on hand to show them how to set up a matrix server in a jurisdiction not affected by the DMCA.
We need to go back to pre-discord and bring back forums man. Don't get me wrong, discord has its uses, all my friends use it, but discord killing forums and websites was really bad for the internet as a whole. Like look at dolphin, made before discord, it has its own website, its own forums. Hopefully if Nintendo does ever come after dolphin they'll at least be able to keep the website and forums up.
or, you know, lemmy? it's not that much different from forum software, is browsable and federated
I mean Nintendo would nuke the forums too.
Their lawyers don't fuck around. They're as bad as Disney.
Unless you're a forum hosted in someplace like the Netherlands or Russia you're in range for Nintendo's nukes.
Discord has no uses that isn't already covered by other options, though. Their biggest feature is publicity.
Centralization = easy censorship.
Mass centralization. Old school forums like phpBB and SMF and vBulletin and new-school forums like self-hosted discourse are also centralized, but by one small user calling the shots, and it's very clear immediately which forums are well-run. If a forum isn't well-run with a good community, a 'competitor' will quickly pop up that is, and people will go to it. Sure, you have to have some tech skills but there are easy guides for all of it. Discourse is a simple docker image and it's the best for features and engagement IMO.
Sure you have to sorry about DDoS attacks and staying patched, but you can use OVH or another host with a large infrastructure that had DDoS resistant servers. Or, god forbid, cloudflare.
Ooh! I would like to hear from all those who were fervently vouching for Discord as a support channel for FOSS projects.
Perhaps the same might happen to a web forum or matrix channel. But at least you get an opportunity to backup and migrate.
I mean, my response earlier probably still works for those who'd prefer discord as a support channel to other Foss channels: This is far more of a Nintendo bad moment than it is a Discord bad. I doubt foss alternatives would have the lawyers to fight Nintendo better than Discord can. And while my mind immediately thought of a hydra anology that Foss might have, hasnt the hydra already activated anyways? Suyu is already jumping into different hosting mediums
I understand that Lemmy hates Discord, but this is FAR more of Nintendo being an asshat than it is Discord. I'm so far done giving Nintendo my money at this point
edit: I just wanna point out that Corgana posted a response that was straight up false, I called him out on it with proof, he edited his response instead of replying to me to make my response to him look bad, and then when I called him out on that by putting what his original response was in my response, he deleted hos post to try and hide his shame. This user apparently has a history of doing this, and I find this HIGHLY manipulative and scummy, so I'm putting this edit here so that he cant hide his actions by deleting them because I called him out before any damage could be done
Yes it's Nintendo. But it wouldn't be this bad without Discord's design that emphasizes centralization and corporate ownership of user data. Forums can at least be backed up and migrated elsewhere.
Tbf I think a lot of that is just the fault of people starting to use discord in ways it wasnt designed for. It works GREAT as a msn/skype/ventrillo type of program. Its just that people started using it for more than just that, and to my knowledge discord isnt super profitable yet, so I dont blame them for trying to accept any type of use people want to use discord for. Eventually it'll need to at least break even profit wise.
Not sure if your sarcasm is towards me or towards someone who'd defend Nintendo, but tbh I'm getting tired of Mega Corps in general (not that I ever really liked them in the first place), so asshats like Nintendo who go above and beyond being a dick because they have the legal team to do so I'm just done giving money to. Indie workers/companies of all fields I'll try and get money to, but I kind of just want to see the current crop of mega corps sink and not come back
Stop basing your organization on Discord and hosting all your development work there. Don't subject yourself to the whims of venture capital and enshittification.
Diversify your online presence, and find a local company that will host a matrix server for you.
A forum is perhaps the best support format for a project. Something like discourse. It can be easily migrated in an emergency and it can be searched from a search engine. You also don't need an account to browse it.
I loving all the discord hate here. I’ve never understood why people like it.
I mean, it's great for audio and video chats. What I never understood is why people started using discord as a forum, as documentation or as some kind of program (like, why is Midjourney on a public discord chat? It's probably the worst possible interface).
Discord is excellent for chatting with your friends while playing games, and that's it.
Convenient, easy to use, large user base, one point registration for multiple communities, tends to simply just work.
But is it the best? Nah. And their increased monetisation drives are annoying.
It's good enough and everyone has it and knows it
I'm not about to even attempt to ask someone in a game if they've got matrix because the answer is going to be no
I think it's like Windows and Reddit. People don't use it because they like or love it, but because most are there. Sometimes the only way to interact with the developers or find new people in an active community.
Yeah me either. It spies on your computer, they ban third-party clients. It's owned by bytedance. When I use the web version it kicks me out every day and I have to log in again.
I don't mind it being around but I really hate the way open source projects (e.g. Home Assistant) use it as their only platform for collaboration. The make me give up my data just to collaborate with them on a privacy tool.
sad. but SO predictable that not having a plan B for this situation is laughable
Guess what? This will make them stronger. Suyu's GitLab repo was already DMCA'd, after that they set up their own Forgejo instance. They also get their website running again (It was down for a few days, I don't know the reason) and they're now strong and independent. Moving away from Discord will only increase their independence.
I wonder if the codeberg site is vulnerable to such laws. I think they operate from the EU.
They're based in Germany, so it should be fine. But I think they said at some point that they don't want any trouble with DMCA code.
Germany specifically
Suyu died though. Right now the only actively maintained Yuzu fork is Sudachi, which is only maintained by a single person.
Apparently there was some drama about the Yuzu devs using code which came from a switch SDK as a basis for emulator code, which kind of poisons the whole codebase.
Suyu died though.
What makes you think so?
Apparently there was some drama about the Yuzu devs using code which came from a switch SDK as a basis for emulator code, which kind of poisons the whole codebase.
But if this was in Yuzu, it's also present in every other fork, right? Also, was this a leaked Nintendo SDK or something 3rd-party?
That happens if a single company controls the community (Reddit, Discord) and its closed source on top of it..
Maybe they should have picked any of the available chat options that aren't totally proprietary?
I see discord is entrenched enough where they dont need to care about their users.
It was nice while it lasted I guess, now to begin the slow search for another private community for the friend group to very slowly migrate to.
now to begin the slow search for another private community for the friend group to very slowly migrate to.
Just don't pick another proprietary platform again.
Step 2 of enshittification:
First, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves.
That’s not really fair on Discord. The article mentions they received an injunction to remove the content so they were forced to do this. Anybody in the same jurisdiction would have to do the same:
“Discord responds to and complies with all legal and valid Digital Millennium Copyright Act requests. In this instance, there was also a court ordered injunction for the takedown of these materials, and we took action in a manner consistent with the court order,” reads part of a statement from Discord director of product communications Kellyn Slone to The Verge.
What I find hilarious is that these are just minor hiccups. The emulation scene has existed for a long time and will continue to exist for a long time. None of these recent measures will do anything to stop it as long as the emulator devs aren’t trying to make money off Nintendo IP.
Everyone here is saying not to use Discord, but what are they expecting the server admins to do after moving off Discord when Nintendo's lawyers send them a letter? Like sure, hate Discord, but the problem here clearly lies with Nintendo.
but what are they expecting the server admins to do after moving off Discord when Nintendo’s lawyers send them a letter
...Not... kick them out? Discord doesn't kick out extremist groups. This seems comparatively mild. I think they had a reasonable expectation to be left alone. Nintendo got a court injunction but Discord didn't fight it.
I am guessing noone is suing discord for hosting these groups were Nintendo might be threatening a lawsuit for hosting these devs.
So not a matter of morals but self-preservation.
Is the expectation that Discord will risk spending potentially millions in court with Nintendo to protect a single community? From their perspective, it's easy to see why they'd just bend over.
Discord's response was extreme, and that is inexcusable. I'm not trying to defend them here. The core problem here though is Nintendo harassing these developers to try to stop these projects. They could have easily been kicked out by any other platform, or sent a C&D if they tried to self-host one.
Host the project in a country where IP laws don't give Nintendo any teeth.
I don't see people hating discord for it, just pointing out that it was a bad choice from the beginning
I agree there are probably better options out there, but scrolling through the comments, I had seen a lot of discussion about Discord and not nearly as much on Nintendo. I was hoping to stir up more discussion on Nintendo's involvement.
Discord's reaction may be unreasonable, but it isn't ridiculous to see them bend over for Nintendo when they're faced with hosting a smaller community (relatively speaking) or becoming a target of Nintendo's lawyers. Had they been on another platform (self-hosted or not), Nintendo would have likely persued them all the same. Also, as far as I'm aware, the developers themselves believe that they are within the law. The issue comes from Nintendo disregarding the law and harassing them anyway.
You can blame both corporations, you don't need to suck any corpo cock. Nintendo sends the takedowns in the first place, which sure is Nintendon't, and Discord heeds them despite otherwise profiting from those communities and without allowing any sort of measure.
You can blame both corporations
I don't remember saying otherwise. I just found it odd that everyone was talking about Discord (at the time of posting), and there was very little discussion around Nintendo's involvement in encouraging (and participating in) such toxic behavior.
without allowing any sort of measure.
This is what I find unacceptable in Discord's case. Options should have been given to the devs/server admins.
Problem? These devs are exposing themselves to the corporate legal eye. Have whatever opinion you want, but they are playing in the bear enclosure at the zoo.
I obviously don't love corporate fuckery, but I acknowledge it is pretty clear. If you fuck with a company with a huge legal team, even tangentially, even if you believe you are not infringing on anything, you could be wrong in their eyes, and they might nuke your project.
Discord is trash anyway, move onto Matrix already
Time to restore a backup on a different hosting provider... what, Discord doesn't let export backups, or self-host it? Well, shouldn't have relied on Discord then.
There is this Matrix-Discord bridge, but I don't exactly understand the details and if its one way only. https://matrix.org/ecosystem/bridges/discord/
i think thats a little extreme, cant they just remove the content and block them? also why does discord have weapons of mass destruction in the first place?
I'm sure all these companies have similar policy that they can stop hosting your things if they don't like to
Backup and migrate. Choose only platforms that support it. The only weak point there is the DNS registrar.
Time for them to move over to Matrix.
Something something Drake meme Discord/IRC...
Just wait, they'll move to Matrix, get legally attacked if they're hosting in a copyright friendly jurisdiction, and say "fuck it, we're going to the darkweb", and Nintendo won't be able to do shit.
🤖 I'm a bot that provides automatic summaries for articles: ::: spoiler Click here to see the summary Both Suyu and Sudachi began as forks of Yuzu, the emulator that Nintendo sued out of existence on March 4th.
Developers of Yuzu’s forks also claimed they were changing the code further, among other practices, in an effort to avoid pissing Nintendo off.
But it’s possible that people were sharing Nintendo’s cryptographic keys, firmware, or even entire pirated games in these servers despite those commitments.
Even if Suyu and Sudachi were infringing, Discord’s policy does not suggest it would permaban, much less nuke entire servers, on the first offense.
Discord did not answer questions about whether these users were repeat copyright infringers, had received any previous warnings, or were forwarded any takedown requests.
Nintendo isn’t just targeting Switch emulators with its latest round of takedowns but also some of the tools that aid them: it sent DMCA takedown requests to GitHub to remove 27 forks of the Sigpatch Updater, as well as Lockpick_RCM, kezplez-nx, and Incognito_RCM, which help Switch owners and developers obtain encryption keys.
Saved 79% of original text. :::
Discord should be used as an easy way to keep people up to date and host links, like a replacement for Twitter. Not too be the sole source of hosting info. They should still have websites the discord points to.
