Wisconsin judge sides with 11-year-old trans girl over her right to use school toilets

I went to a club with only one, huge, unisex bathroom once. It was.. like any other bathroom. Seeing people of the opposite gender wasn't really a concern anyways.

Since it was a rather yuge bathroom for a yuge club, if there was any shenanigans going on there would've been plenty of witnesses to call it out.

There was even one guy who went piss at a urinal, and started to leave without washing his hands. All the other guys started shouting at the guy to was his hands lol.

I support this.

Yes. And get rid of that creepy door gap while you're at it

To be fair, there is safety in numbers and consequently I also see a benefit to combining them. I'm a dude, and I would rather walk down a busy pedestrian mall than a sketchy half-empty street or an urban trail on a moonless night.

Same thing with bathrooms. I imagine women feel better in a bathroom where other women and other people are present and aware, vs a nearly empty bathroom where a creep could walk in and isolate them at any moment. I've been to places with large unisex bathrooms (hot springs, spas, etc.) and there's enough people in there that no one is gonna try anything stupid/inappropriate without being immediately noticed. Bathroom troublemakers are a small subset of the universally large group of people who have to use the restroom anyway.

I only support gender-segregated bathrooms because I don't want a bunch of chicks clogging up the mensroom with their slow pissing/shitting/bloody paper towels on the floor. :D I am unreasonable and self-centered, but anyone who has ever been to a concert knows which line is longer.

....so you are going to take away my urinals, my fast turnaround time, and my silence?

Now the problem with that would be that then people would only use the pissing bathroom, because who would want to poop with other people? I sure wouldn't.

We can have gender neutral bathrooms where we have a shared hand-washing area, and individual stalls. Heck, you can even have cameras pointed towards the sink area if people are so afraid of getting harassed in the bathroom. Gender should not matter when you have individual stalls.

I was at a concert at Red Rocks Amphitheatre and they had gender neutral single stall bathrooms with a shared sink area. It was great. Sure, there was a line, but there was going to be one anyway. However, it ensured 100% utilization, when potentially one side would have less than 100% usage when the other has a line. It's ideal for places with large crowds.

(The stalls were also well built basically single rooms, not the shitty American stalls with gaps in them.)

It works perfectly, it's just more expensive to construct. In some Nordic countries there are very few places with bathroom stalls, they either have lots of single-use bathrooms or completely walled-in rooms (wall from ground to roof, regular door) with a toilet and then sinks outside to wash your hands. Works in shopping malls, airports, schools (from small elementary schools to huge high-schools, I've never seen one with stalls). The only exceptions I can think of that have stalls are amusement parks, some sport arenas and (ironically) IKEA.

Because it's not cost effective

All this bathroom talk is just a bourgeois plot to make us all rent bathrooms.

I don’t know what bathrooms you’ve been in, but nobody is showing anyone anything in the bathroom. In most cases people who are trans use stalls anyways.

What world do you live in that you see other people's genitals in the bathroom? I've never had this issue, none of my friends have, and I doubt you could provide any significant proof that is an issue. You just hate trans people. Say the quiet part out loud.

Maybe teach your boy not to show their genitals to people in the bathroom because that's actually weird af? I swear the people against this are telling on themselves. You're a bunch of bathroom perverts and you think it's normal/everyone does it. Because I have never once in my whole life seen someone's genitals in a public bathroom. You looking for it or what?

That's exactly the point. The judge sided with the 11 year old girl so she wouldn't be forced to use the boys bathroom with your son.

This is some good Accidental Ally material.

But if the same happens with men you’re cool with it?

As a male, I've learned long ago when I step up to a stall next to another dude, I'm not supposed to look at their genitals. As it turns out, dudes don't like when other dudes look at their junk. As a result, I've never had another dude showing me their genitals in a men's room.

Come to think of it, if I had a choice, I'd probably rather a woman looked at my junk in the bathroom than a dude...

I see what you did there.

What is the issue you have with it, really? You think that people are going to go into the bathroom and do something nefarious?

Before asking us why we think it's okay, let's really drill down into what you're so worried about.

Yeah you're right, being trans isn't even a thing, it's all just perverted teenage boys who want to... Hear girls pee, I guess?

Seriously what the fuck is wrong with you? If you find sexual gratification being in the same room where members of the opposite gender take a shit in a closed stall, you go ahead and be as pervy as you fucking want with it, but stop projecting your weird scat fetish on everyone else and just let people go to the god damn bathroom.

Well if they aren’t a boy then it wouldn’t matter and I would be fine with my daughter sharing a locker room/bathroom. I’m more worried about her being shot and killed than someone who is trans in the bathroom with her.

People don’t just wake up one day and go “I’m a girl! Hyuk! I’m going to go be a girl just to get in the bathroom! Hyuk!”

People don’t do that, especially trans people. Get your head out of your ass.

Guess your parents never read classics to you like: Everyone Poops. Or the wonderful sequel: Everyone Farts.

We're just people and socializing these potty hangups is pretty childish.

When that happens we can talk about why it happened, and how it was handled. But it's simply not a thing that happens unless it's some anti-trans activist trying to prove a point!

Two things to ponder if you dont understand why people might answer "yes.": Boys pissing in public on trees and in bushes is a normal thing, especially among circles expressing concern about a society that acknowledges trans people exist. Boys using toilets is a plus, at all ages. Second: every Porta potty in existence seems to operate with its gender neutrality without the same kind of panic. If you can square these two notions: Boys using a toilet isn't odd, strange, or worth a moral panic. You might then see your question isn't about toilets, and about gendered space and how important it is to have spaces that are exclusive and exclusionary based on something like gender, (or even... other things!)

Why do questions like this always sound like the person asking is just putting a question mark at the end of something they've considered doing?

Also there are babies that are born hermaphrodites and often the doctors just choose a gender, getting it wrong from the perspective of the child.

🏆

Why would they need to go through puberty

Because MASSIVE hormonal and neurological changes happen with puberty.

It's like the most drastic change of your body and mind that most people will ever experience in their lives.

I wish I were on puberty blockers. I'm not trans btw

Puberty blockers are very safe and reversible

This is 100% incorrect btw.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/puberty-blockers-not-so-reversible-after-all/

https://wng.org/roundups/study-effects-of-puberty-blockers-can-last-a-lifetime-1617220389

https://www.worldtribune.com/we-were-wrong-canadian-doctor-says-puberty-blockers-not-safe-or-reversible/

https://www.transgendertrend.com/nhs-no-longer-puberty-blockers-reversible/

The FDA doesn't even approve puberty blockers for "gender affirmation".

You can't just "pause" puberty and then go through it years later completely unaffected. That's not how it works.

Bigots are incapable of thinking this way. They only see LGBT+ people as "the other" and themselves as "normal", so they never realize that they themselves at one point figured out their own identity (including both gender and sexuality). They think it's only LGBT+ folks having to figure those things out.

It's bizarre, especially since society does push cisgendered and heterosexual norms at a very early age. Young boys will get asked if they like any girls and they'll constantly be pushed with gender roles and stereotypes for their birth gender. It's so normalized that most folks don't even seem to realize that it happens until confronted with the existence of any alternative (like LGBT+ folks). A reasonable person would examine their biases and realize stuff like "huh, I guess I knew my gender from a young age", but bigots have this irrational hatred for LGBT+ people so they're not willing or capable of this kind of insight. Their brain has to twist logic into justifying the bigotry that they've already concluded on.

How do you know that to be true?

Why don't you just let people raise their own children, and you can raise yours?

i guess it must have also been sad when parents allowed kids to identify as sinister. meaning left-handed, of course. one moment, it was rightfully shunned, the next moment sinister people started getting everywhere and it was growing at an alarming rate, threatening to take over society...

...until it hit 12.5%, where it flatlined and stayed ever since. turns out if you don't bully people into repressing a trait they're born with, you'll see a meteoric rise in the amount of people you now accept, when they stop (rightfully) fearing that you'll repress them. today, it's beyond trivial that if you think there ever has been a point in history where one eight of all people haven't been left-handed, you're just a moron, but your rhetoric would perfectly fit the era when that started to be accepted.

we don't know exactly how many people are trans, but the sharp rise you see and characterize as "currently relevant in social media" is simply due to society (mostly) letting people finally be who they always have been. realistically, trans people are a minority, but that doesn't mean they don't have the same right to be themselves that you and i already enjoy simply for having been born into the majority.

jej