9mo ago

Roku explores taking over HDMI feeds with ads

www.lowpass.cc Roku explores taking over HDMI feeds with ads

Roku TVs could one day show ads as soon as you pause playing a game on a connected Xbox, or stop a stream on an Apple TV.

Roku is exploring ways to show consumers ads on its TVs even when they are not using its streaming platform: The company has been looking into injecting ads into the video feeds of third-party devices connected to its TVs, according to a recent patent filing.

This way, when an owner of a Roku TV takes a short break from playing a game on their Xbox, or streaming something on an Apple TV device connected to the TV set, Roku would use that break to show ads. Roku engineers have even explored ways to figure out what the consumer is doing with their TV-connected device in order to display relevant advertising.

485 comments

Any company trying to use the HDMI-CEC protocol in such a subversive manner should lose their license to the HDMI standard IMO.
- The HDMI forum is run by big companies so that is not happening, sorry
  
  Death to HDMI. DisplayPort is the superior port.
- The bastards that control the hdmi standard: yeah!
  Roku: 💰
  Bastards: actually no
  
  Collectivism: 💰💰 Fuck Roku.
- It's not like they ever properly implemented it in the first place.
  
  I’m mad that they did their broken implementation of sending control codes between devices that never works. I have to disable it on everything so that the correct input gets set.
  And then they are killing the universal remote industry so there is nothing to replace it with.
- You know HDMI is not some big secret they can use it without the license and ship from overseas like 90% of shit shipped from China.
  
  For cheap gizmos I can see a chinese seller getting away with it (rebranding under another weird name like AWOYO or something, in a sea of identical devices under different brand names), but not a large business like Roku.
  
  That only works if you're headquartered in China.
  Not that the HDMI Fourm will stop them, anyway. More likely, the companies involved will want to license Roku's patent.

Imagine being the guy working on this and how much you hate yourself anytime somebody asks you what you are working on.
- Even worse: Imagine being the guy working on this and being proud of yourself.
  
  I think the former situation is worse for the person working on it.
- Unfortunately, I bet these guys don't care. I used to work at a company you might have products from and I would constantly hear "Hey, we're a business" as an excuse to degrade the user experience. :(
- I remember having an argument with my teacher in college about this. He asked us what we would do if we were asked to code something that could be used for things you personally don't agree with such as the government using tools to "help" but also remove peoples privacy. Or corporations being able to show you more ads. I told him i would refuse. And he said that it would be my job though and sometimes you have to do things you don't like. So i told him i would quit. And for some reason he could not really comprehend that and we got into an argument.
  
  You were talking to a teacher who probably couldn't afford to pay rent if he ever quit his job.
  
  To be fair, most people I know don’t have the financial flexibility to quit their job if they’re asked by their boss to do something objectionable
- “Yeah, I know it’s shitty, but it pays the bills 🤷🏻‍♂️”
- We had to listen this C-level guy give a speech how good the last couple of years have been. We've increased the price of services by 50% and the amount of useless upsell shit we push to people has gone up as well. While our wages are still the same and people are getting laid off constantly. But I need food and shit.
- Some people also have no qualms in doing the dirty job. They get paid and they don't care.
  
  I knew a guy who went to work for palantir. I asked "what if you end up working on like domestic spying or other sketchy stuff?'
  He was like, shrug, iunno. Guy did not give a shit about anyone outside his immediate friend and family group.
- I recall watching a defcon speech given by someone who used to make malware. He opened the speech by apologizing and saying that he knows that he will burn in hell.

The shittiest of enshitifications.
- We need an anti-awards show for shit like this.
  
  I like that. If there was a site that did like The Razzies for movies but for technology enshitification, I would definitely watch, and probably follow a blog if it was done well
- Roku has always been a shitty company that wants to monetize everything. People are finally waking up. How many of us have a Roku remote that advertises a useless or bankrupt streaming service?
  
  I know I’m old, but I miss having numbers on my remote.
  Now I have a “sling” and a “crackle” button. 🙁

"People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you’re not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you.
You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity.
Fuck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. It’s yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head.
You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don’t owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don’t even start asking for theirs."
– Banksy
- Didn't Banksy sell out to corpos?
  
  Not that I'm aware of. But secondly... it doesn't matter if this quote is from a pure soul or a broken one - the we can gain value from its message either way.

Is there an anti-ad community on Lemmy? Or another non-Lemmy place to work through blocking/avoiding this bullshit? I'm so fed up with the advertisement industry. I don't want ads on my devices. I don't want ads in my operating systems. I don't want ads in my content. I don't want ads in the sky. I don't want ads in the ocean. I don't want to be forced to see or hear ads while putting gas in my car.
I really can't emphasize how much I am willing to go through to rid my life completely of advertisements.
- If the gas pumps have those unlabeled buttons around a screen, try pressing all of em. The pumps around here (nebraska) will mute the audio when you press one of the buttons, it just isn’t labeled. I’ve taken to writing “mute” on the magic-button with a sharpie whenever I pump my gas.
  
  Wait, the thing about ads while fueling your car is real?
  WTF?!
  
  One of my local gas stations had that to where it was so loud you can hear them in the car. A few weeks after they installed them, someone came by with a hand drill and drilled out all of the speakers. Not sure what happened to that hero but we need more people like them.
  
  I've tried pressing every button at every pump I've used in my area and this trick doesn't work. I want to epoxy the speakers and screen and glitter-bomb the entire thing.
  I won't. But I want to.
  
  Right side, second button down?
  
  You’re doin god’s work, sir
  
  Maybe try jamming something in too so it stays forever pressed and muted
  
  ♥️
- I don't know if they're on the fediverse yet but Adbusters has been doing great work in this space for a long time.
  
  Dammmn that takes me back! I had a subscription to their magazine in high school in the early 2000s. HOLY CRAP they're still selling the Corporate America flag too! Seeing all those tech company logos on the modern version makes me feel so old though... Shit.
- It’s not specifically anti-ad, but the lemmy privacy community regularly discusses ad-blocking as it very much overlaps with privacy.
- Look into adgaurd or set up pihole software for dns and have a network device dedicated to blocking ads
  
  Roku uses hardcoded Google DNS, so you’ll need to make some additional changes on your router to direct their 8.8.x.x addresses to your DNS service. Instructions at the below site are for Unlocator, but I think should work with any custom DNS.
  https://support.unlocator.com/article/131-how-to-bypass-forced-dns-on-roku
  
  I already have Pi-hole with a bunch of additional lists to be blocked. I also cancelled all streaming services that service ads, and I use Adblock. I still see ads occasionally. What do you suggest for dedicated ad-blocking hardware?
  Also, I don't know what to do about the environmental ads.
- I can't understand why anyone's money entitles them to put their mental parasites into my attention space. They aren't paying me, and I wouldn't take their money no matter how much they were offering. For fuck's sake, I don't even want to experience the offer of money for ad attention.
  
  They Live
- Rate those places online to warn others. fucking hailCorporate nonsense
  
  That only works while this is still a niche use case. Just wait until they find out how many more places they can shove ads while we are forced to stand/sit somewhere for 20 minutes!
  
  Perfect. Then people can avoid ads at that gas station by going to another gas station with ads!
- I'm still running an older version of NextPVR with three usb tuners and Comskip.exe - it gets most of the ads out of free to air automatically.
  Ublock origin and / or expressvpn seem to block some ads on the catch up services, but not all.
  YouTube with Ublock origin and Sponsorblock work well.
  Newpipe Sponsorblock fork is good as well.

Man... My personal list of banned companies not to buy from is getting scary long.
- At this point just start using a white list.
- I have a whitelist, not a blacklist.
- You wanna DM me that list? And some decent alternatives would be nice too :)
  
  That's a hypothetical list in my head :P
  As for alternarives, I use so many "alternative"/FOSS things daily that compiling one list would just be a waste of time at this point.
- Would you mind sharing the list? Or is it just inside your head?

If a consumer watches something on their Apple TV and then presses the pause button, a Roku TV set could use either audio or video-based content recognition technologies (known in the industry as ACR) to identify what’s being watched, match the current scene to a database and extract relevant information to pair an ad with it.
Wow somehow their idea is even worse than I imagined, glad I don't own a Roku now.
- Yeah way to fuck 80% of the purpose of pausing. This is basically malware.
  
  Do not look away from screen while ad is playing, or playback will be paused for 5 minutes for first offense.
- Yeah, I thought it was no different than what already happens on my fire cube. The screensaver with ads mixed in.
  This is a much bigger invasion of privacy

How the fuck can an economy that's almost nothing but advertisements sustain itself for any period of time? It feels like forcing more and more ads is the only thing anybody does for money anymore.
- Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
  
  It’s got electrolytes!
- Big economy, long time to fall. See example: rome or whatever.
  They're not even going to profit so much off the ads as they will having a new way to distribute them. Even then its, "line go up this quarter", not "what if sales go down due to this?". They'll license it out to every offer company who needs it for line go up.
- Wait until someone invents a bot/AI script that watches ads for you. Then the whole "ads everywhere" will either implode or it'll trigger a war between AI ad makers and AI ad watchers
  Either way, it'll be entertaining.
  
  I don't think AI does what you think it does
  
  They already have that it's called click fraud or automated ad clicking, mostly though it's websites that earned money from advertisers who engage in this, as a sleazy way of making more money.
  Though if you want to partake in it there are ad blocking extensions that also do it. It's not perfect but it is quite damaging to the advertising industry.
- Interested in a 4 hour Adam Curtis documentary?
  
  Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
  4 hour Adam Curtis documentary?
  Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
  I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

Don't buy Roku TVs. Got it.

Used to recommend Roku to others. I will never buy anything from them or recommend them to anyone again.
Someday maybe boards will figure out that "business" people have no idea what they are doing.
- Boards only understand "line go up" or "line go down." If something turns off a few weirdos like us but it lets them sell access to millions of eyeballs they'll do it.
  They'd step over their own dying mother to make a buck.
  
  I mean, if she's already dying, what's the issue here? I'm losing money if I have to stop and call 911, when she has a perfectly good phone to do it herself.
  
  History is littered with companies that decided they should "milk" their customers instead of providing new and innovative products. They usually don't last all that long, but you're right that the current board members might not gaf about any kind of longer term existence.
- I’ve always found their monetization strategy icky. Their remotes, with streaming service ads on them, always made me feel gross. Especially since those services change every couple years, and you get stuck with remotes plugging stupid services like Blockbuster and Redbox.
- To be fair, this is just a patent, not Roku saying they will do this. But if they do, then absolutely.
  
  I don't want my money used for shit like this so Roku and I are done regardless.of if they exercise this patent or not.
  
  Stand up, raise your hands, and shout, “McDonald’s!”
- They know what they're doing! Maximizing share price for the next quarter while they jump ship... It's legitimately disgusting.

Late Stage Capitalism: Using a microscopic laser, we are able to burn our advertiser logos directly into our customer's retinas, so they will see them even as they sleep.
Shareholders: 👏 👏 👏

Imagine a world where talented engineers would put their minds to work for solving big problems instead of ... I'm not sure wtf this is.
- Increasing profit margins....which is the thing our society puts above all else.
  
  Is it really "society" doing this? Or just the deliciously looking, juicy, meaty, 1%?
- It would have to be a society that isn't driven by profit. A society where everyone has the basics guaranteed to them, like housing, food, water, utilities, and transportation. A society where working is optional instead of one where you have to "earn a living".
  Just the phrase "earn a living" alone means to me that in capitalism, nobody deserves to live unless they work.
- This just goes to show how "engineering ethics" course requirements are extremely underrated (and how engineering ethics courses themselves don't go far enough).
- You underestimate how many talented people are in the world. I get that being on Lemmy for so long though lol.

If Roku actually does this I would definitely never use them again. Completely asinine behavior. Especially because most people aren't even using stand alone boxes with their smart TVs.
- I would get rid of my old Roku that I'm sure is too old for this tech and urge everyone I know to never buy anything Roku, and if they did, I would lambast them every opportunity I could.
  
  Our tv turned out to be a roku tv. When we bought it this wasn’t advertised well. Which feels on brand right now.
- I will never buy a Roku device because of that forced arbitration stunt. We can add the fact that they are even considering this to the list of reasons.
  
  Yeah, Roku must be on its last legs with the crap they're pulling. All of this says to me: don't buy Roku.
  
  To be fair, a lot of companies are doing the forced arbitration nonsense. I just bailed on Vultr (VPS host) for doing the TOS update nonsense (undismissable pop-up, must accept to access account), and I've been looking for an alternative and every one I've checked has that forced arbitration nonsense in their TOS. Some let you opt out, but you need to send a letter or email to do so.
  So instead of dealing with that, I'm actively looking for ways to avoid using any type of service with forced arbitration. I'm upgrading my NAS to support hosting my things, I'm trying to find VPNs that offer a fixed public address so I can expose services behind my NAT, etc. It's incredibly frustrating because it's literally everywhere now...
- I don't know. If done well this could be a much better option than pausing whatever you're watching to show an ad.
  If youtube showed ads on the corner of the screen while you're browsing around searching for something to watch, it would be a much better platform than what it is today and it would probably make more money too. If Netflix did this they would triple their revenue.
  
  you've described youtube in 2008 and it was a much better platform.
  the issue isn't what time to show ads, or where. It's the furthering invasion of marketing into private spaces and lack of apparent concern for end-user consent. There are security concerns when devices can hijack eachother. This technology is likely to rely on some means of detecting idle time, like comparing consecutive frames as the article states, so you try reading a long text on screen in an RPG, and then you're local kroger brand ad plays.
  
  The problem with this philosophy is that it’s basically how ads started on the internet and now we’re here.
  Oh it’s just a small, non-intrusive side bar ad, thats okay… oh it’s just ads on both sides… oh it’s just an additional ad on top and on the bottom… oh it’s just an easily dismissed pop up ad… oh it’s just a short video to watch before I’m allowed to see the site… repeat ad nauseam (no pun intended)
  
  Sounds like IOI in the rp1 movie
  "We can take up to 80% of the visual field BEFORE inducing seizures" ~ Nolan Sorento

It seems like so long that Roku was not a horrible company. Simple little box for a good price with a small static ad on the home screen to make money.
Seems like a lifetime ago.
- I mean, there was always this bullshit.
  
  And those have taken over all the damn tv remotes. I designed and 3D printed a replacement faceplate for my Samsung tv's remote that hides them, out of retaliation (they were in a spot where I accidentally hit the netflix button when trying to pause what I was watching, which was annoying af).
  
  How and why is there a Blockbuster button lol
  
  it's on the chromecast remote as well now. Is there an open source chromecast alternative?
  
  My parent’s 10 year old Sharp TV has a Netflix button on the remote. That’s how long this has been going on.
- That little box even got a recent update that lets you ban certain ads by hitting *.

Guess I'll never buy a Roku TV then: Get all the way fucked!

Is this why they made people waive their right to sue them?
Yeah... Fuck Roku.

"Wow, this Roku TV is so cheap!"
Your selling your privacy and basically leasing the disposable tv.
- This makes me make goddamm sure 1 don't buy a smart tv. Two definitely a Roku one.
  
  Good luck finding an affordable "dumb" TV. They're just computer monitors and they cost a hell of a lot more at TV size than most people are able to spend. The smart TVs are so cheap because they are subsidized by the shit vendors paying the manufacturer to load their malware in front of your eyes.
- Roku is a pioneer in most of this crap but don't be fooled to think that only cheap stuff is gonna have these and that somehow you are safe if you spend a lot on your TV. as it turns out high end and average TV producers would also like to squeeze the tiniest profit margins out of their consumers and if they could get away with it they would do the same.
  in fact nowadays most TVs regardless of price are actually collecting and selling your data and in the best case it's an opt out option in the worst possible place in the menu.

I wish a pox on these capitalist pigs.
Every day I get a step closer to dropping all this trash, going back to piracy.
- Just do it.
  
  Slowly but surely, we dropped Amazon, Netflix, and a few other services so far. My goal once I have free time is to setup a plex server so my parents can partake aswell.
  Probably the only thing that won't get cancelled is YouTube as it provides to many benfits even as the cost goes up when split across 3 households

This is gross. I cut my cable because of ads. Have about 3 types of adblockers on my computer to stop them. This hyper marketing is why so many have turned away from traditional entertainment to begin with.
I am more than the ability to spend money and it’s goddamn time everyone say this and boycott companies that do shady garbage like this

A TV is a device that shows you what you want. This is no TV.
- that's a monitor.
  
  Nope, a monitor is an expensive small TV that gets font rendering right =D

Just because they patented it doesn't mean it will happen. Sony patented this evil idea.
- We are not far from “please drink verification can”
  
  error! user is attempting to steal lemmy premium™
- If Sony patented this idea, does it mean nobody else can use it until it expires? Good guy Sony always looking out for us
  
  I kind of feel like starting a non profit that solely creates patents for evil ideas with no intention of ever licensing them
  
  I think you can still pay to license patented technology for commercial use if the patent holder is willing. Just because they haven't used it yet doesn't mean they won't though!
- If McDonald's needs a surefire way to make me not go to a McDonald's ever again, that's perfect.
- MCDONALD'S!

Never connect your smart TV to the internet. Just don't do it. Get a third party device or ideally use an old PC with an appropriate HTPC Linux distro or something.

so glad i never bought into roku
and i never fucking will
good riddance.

This is how you get people to start rooting their TVs

Great, so Smart TVs won't even function as basic displays anymore.
- I swear I'm like going backwards with tech, I found an old ipod to use at the gym, I'm pirating shows, and I don't bother with blu tooth keyboards and mice for work.
  Tech didn't get better or hassle free. Getting a haircut needs an "app" ffs.
  
  What's wrong with the wireless keyboards and mice?

I'm done with Roku. I have one in every room, but they all need to go.

Oh please don't misunderstand my post. I'm in total agreement that this bullshit can't go unchallenged and that posting about it is necessary and good. It's just that, like public comment town halls, all the complaining in the world does not affect change.
Instead, I meant to imply that more needs to be done and in a way that people who have already paid can use to fight against them.
Like encouraging all Roku TV owners (and eventually all Smart TV owners) to contact their local, state and federal representatives to demand they enact consumer protection laws against post purchase forced software changes to functionality of the product (aside from security patches) or forced acceptance of 'terms of service' that essentially take away your right to your preferred method of recourse.
I mean, the idea that we buy something for the features and capabilities it gives us just to have it changed at the whim of a corporate moneymaking scheme is insane. Even moreso when policy changes mean you accept something you don't want to or lose what you paid for (i.e. Roku's forced arbitration acceptance that would otherwise brick the TV).
It's fine to vent frustrations but in the long run, jailbreaking and looking to buy something different doesn't resolve the root problem. Greed overcoming consumer protection in the name of shareholder interest (most of which are corporate C level douches).
Sorry if I wasn't clear with my opinion but my posts usually are already too long before they even start. lol

Enshitification gold rush continues. It's like now there is a word for it, all these companies are exploring how they can do it.
- For consumers, "enshitification" is a reminder of how things get worse. For companies, apparently it's a delightfully new lower bar to aspire to. This is some Darkest Timeline kinda BS
  
  Guess we need to be careful what we give a name!
  
  Let's start a patent troll company that exclusively deals in dark pattern bullshit. Then sue every company that implements any of our terrible patents for as much money as possible. Use the proceeds to ~~bribe~~ lobby congress to pass stronger consumer protection laws.

Roku, somehow becoming shittier than Twitter
- Roku still gives me a lot more valuable content

You know what people tend to forget?
Shareholders = Consumers of the product too
Marketing departments that come up with these assinine ideas are staffed with consumers of the product too.
As long as enough people are making bank from this stupidity, it will not stop.
The only right answer is not to give them your money. Hard to do that when they all do it and after purchase protests are kind of pointless since they already got paid. So, how to actually impact their bottom line? That's the only language they listen to.

I wish I could find a TV for sale that isn't a Smart TV. It's not necessary and you get issues like this down the road. I'm sure it isn't too long until the other TV manufactures do the same thing.

I don't get it.... Wouldn't it be easier for Roku to just declare bankruptcy and saves themselves the trouble?
- From the article:
  These days, TV makers hardly make any money with their physical products. Roku’s FY 2023 earnings report shows that the company lost $44 million on the sale of smart TVs, streaming players and other devices in 2023. What brings in the bacon are ads and services; Roku generated a gross profit of nearly $1.6 billion with this business segment.
  
  I was joking that such a move would put them so hard on the shit list that people wouldn't touch their products ever again

I've never given money to roku, and now I'll never will
- I've given them money and now I want it back.
  
  Page 42069 of the TOS makes this legal.

Looks like I'm about to go buy another used computer to setup my streaming services using Kody.
- What's Kody? I've been thinking of getting a pc and setting up jellyfin on it and connect that to my tv, but I've never heard of Kody before
  
  It's called Kodi. It's a media centre that organizes and displays a library of your own, locally stored (on a NAS or external hard drive) video files.
  It can be extended with add-ons for example for watching YouTube, but of course there are also some piracy add-ons, which Kodi itself doesn't condone, but can't do anything against
  
  It's a Linux app but runs on almost all platforms. I have it on my phone and my windows PC as well as my dial boot Linux on the same PC. It's looks like the xbox interface (I don't have one so I would know). You can get all sorts of things on it like a video library, automatic episode downloads, illegal downloads, porn, etc, Netflix.

Luckily I'm not involved in this smart-TV saga in any way, as I haven't been watching TV since my childhood (there were no smart-TVs back then, but TV shows in my country were shit).
Now my biggest fear is, if enough people realize that smart-TVs are shit, then desktop monitors will start to become "smart" too. My life will be doomed if that happens.

Didn't know I'd have to drink a verification can just to turn on the TV
- Mountain Dew is for me and you!

All I heard is keep my current TV I'm using as a monitor alive for as long as possible.
- I'm considering a projector with a mini pc as my living room TV. I only ever do movie nights and the occasional big show that pops up for me. Everything else is my pc or audio stuff on my phone anyways.

If they can do that, then nobody can say anything about devices doing the reverse.
- Taking over Roku through hdmi ? that's bold
- It took me more time than I want to admit to understand what you meant by your comment. But yes I agree

Hardware that is supported by ads or requires a subscription should be free, or better yet, not exist at all. Fuck paying $800+ for a TV that leeches forced ad revenue on top of the sale.
And fuck the TV manufacturers for enabling this behavior. Bring back non-smart TVs. I’ll never use Roku or Google built-in streaming, so they shouldn’t be on my TV at all.
- you have to boycott all of the HDMI consortum and the streaming services who demand HDMI for full features. The idea of widevine levels on android are put to prevent "stream piracy" and why all the streaming services push you to use their apps.
  basically all TV manufacturers are part of the HDMI consortum, or adhere to it.

This way, when an owner of a Roku TV takes a short break from playing a game on their Xbox, or streaming something on an Apple TV device connected to the TV set, Roku would use that break to show ads.
But what if I want to have ads playing while I'm playing XBox? Can the Roku analyze the image, identify 3d surfaces in the game I'm playing, and plaster ads on them so that they look integrated with the game?
- Once more games are pixel streamed, that's probably possible
- Roku: Furiously takes notes

Can you just not connect your Smart TV to the internet at all to bypass this? I never connect my Smart TVs to the internet, just my Apple TV since it’s my streamer platform. Seems like this would hamstring their ability to push ads.
- If too many people do this, you bet "smart" TV peddlers will start bundling cellular modems on their devices, so they can connect directly to their servers without relying on your WiFi, just like car companies do. Blocking this would require enclosing the TV in a Faraday cage.
  
  Blocking it would require a screwdriver, and a razor blade to cut some traces on the cellular modem.
- It's entirely possible Roku would fill the ad space with a notice you should connect your TV to the internet.
- Use a pi hole to filter that shit by DNS
  
  Unless tbey start doing DNS over HTTPS or TLS, in which case cut that thing off from any network connections whatsoever
  
  You ever see what an LG does to a Pihole block log? They try to phone home every minute.
- Probably, but also HDMI can carry ethernet as well.

Exactly what people want: more ads.
- Corporations to their shareholders be like "addads"

Cool so what are some good Roku alternatives?
- A simple PC, you can also use it to browse, download stuff, Steam stream etc. The possibilities are endless
  
  Any used office pc from Craiglist for <$200, wiped and reinstalled with linux.... self contained mini PC NUC boxes are also a very good bang-for-buck these days
- I’ve always loved my Apple TVs.
- I blocked my TV from using WiFi, but there have been times I have need to unblock it (like using AirPlay or Google Cast), so it gets updates occasionally. I'm open to throwing my TV straight to the dump and buying another TV to avoid this at all costs.
- Is nVidia Shield an alternative?
  That's what I've been using for years now. It's great.
- Personally looking at dumb panels and building OSMC machines to run them.
- I run an LG OLED TV (disconnected from network), AppleTV, and my own media server. I haven’t seen an ad in my TV for years.
- Get an A/V receiver, a computer monitor or dumb TV, and speakers. Then you can get a Roku streaming player and it cannot show you anything when you do not have its input selected on the receiver.
  Even an inexpensive pair of bookshelf speakers placed on either side of the TV will sound better than built-in TV speakers. Add a center speaker and a subwoofer drastically improved sound.
  Non-4k AV receivers are dirt cheap used.
- Nothing, all TVs are crap.
  The best options are usually buying large "monitors" or digital signage. However these both tend to be more expensive than a similar TV. Monitors also often lack a remote which may be valuable for a TV and digital signage may have less input ports than you may want.
  I would love if a major manufacturer made a TV that just displayed what signals I put into it.
  Right now the best option still seems to buy a Roku TV and never connect it to the internet. But some features will be disabled. For example Miracast doesn't work for some explicitable reason until you connect it to the internet. (Then again it barely works anyways, so no major loss)
  
  Right now the best option still seems to buy a Roku TV and never connect it to the internet.
  No, your best option is to buy any other TV than a Roku TV, and not connect that TV to the internet.

Roku is pretty great for what it is, but the day I see such an ad is the day it hits the bin. That would finally bother me into driving the TV with an actual PC.
- As a former Roku fan, forced arbitration or a brick was the breaking point. Roku can fuck off.
  
  Forced arbitration is a cancer and should be illegal, but at least it’s useful and technically my 5 yo agreed to it, so how is this legal again?
- Isn't Netflix locked at 720 on pc? I can't go without 4k hdr Netflix
  
  It's limited to 720 unless your entire playback system end to end is fully drm secured... this means hdmi certified devices only, single monitor, running unmodified, legit windows. It's extremely restrictive and even the tiniest system change (like adding a second monitor, or using the wrong cable) almost always breaks it.
  Streaming is a cancer.
  
  I’m not sure. These old eyes can’t see the difference and I don’t own 4k hardware. It is possible that you need a locked down system for some content levels.

Over my dead body

That's a fantastic way to guarantee my TV will not be connected to the internet
- Get a CEC TV and a separate streaming box that supports that. Get a Shield and install an ad free launcher, or pick up an AppleTV.

Roku, I already had you blocked at Pihole, but now I’m just straight up turning off your network access.

I hate this timeline

Playing Xbox or PS5: "Game on with power thirst"
Watching Xxx content: ((Jergens ad))
Watching a movie: "Don't forget the popcorn"
No. Fuck no. All of my fuck no's that have ever fucked no
- cant wait for ads in our dreams to happen like in futurama

Am I the only one who gets the feeling that this is kinda dystopic? Like come on, this just gets crazy. It amazes me that some people think this is an ethically acceptable way to earn money.

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MCDONALD'S!