9mo ago

Please, for the love of God, VOTE!

I don't like Biden either, but anyone with half a brain knows there are two choices in the 2020 election. If we had a sane voting system, voting third party might be worth it, but as it stands, no one but you knows your favorite candidate exists and unless you want to become their campaign manager that will still be true in November. Even if you did, and even if you convinced two thirds of the people who would otherwise have voted for Biden to vote for your chosen candidate instead, Trump would still win because half the country voted for him and your guy only got a third. If you vote third party you might as well stay home.

Not voting isn't going to stop the genocide in Gaza. The US will continue to funnel them arms no matter which candidate wins this November. Trump practically campaigns on how much he hates the Jews and he's publicly told Israel to "finish up their war". He'll also make life a living hell for anyone who isn't a straight cisgender male back here at home.

A vote for a candidate is not an endorsement of them or their policies, it's a statement that you like their policies more than the other guy's, and "sticking it to liberals" and "refusing to support genocide" (that's not what voting for Biden is doing, by the way -- a vote for either candidate is a vote for genocide and a vote for neither is an endorsement of both) is not more important than keeping the furthest right politician America has ever seen out of office.

How incredibly privileged do you have to be to see an entire national election as what will happen in the Middle East and ignore Trump's campaign promises to wipe transgender Americans off the map, and further, to not realize that the same thing will happen in the Middle East regardless of which candidate wins?

I hate Biden as much as every other leftist here. But I'll still vote for him because Trump is worse. If there's a single bone in your body that cares about the lives of your trans friends you will too.

Political Memes @lemmy.world

Please, for the love of God, VOTE!

2 13

676 comments

Also, trump appointed 3 supreme court justices, who will be there FOR LIFE.
- ~~Assassinate~~ 'em, you say?
  No, just kidding.
  I'm just someone watching from Europe, getting a little concerned 😔
  
  Same here. Watching from Europe, and going "hmm, I think we had a few very bloody revolutions to solve these kinds of problems"
- Thanks to leftists who wouldn’t vote

Do I hate the two party system? Yes. Do I hate the fact that centrists like Joe Liberman who literally killed universal healthcare in the US are revered and embraced by Biden's party? Yes. Do I hate the fact that Democrats are always dismissive of liberal ideas and often act like complete jackasses and can't admit that when Obama was running there were a ton of Clinton supporters that didn't vote for Obama in a blatant act of pure hypocrisy? Yes.
Do I fucking hate Nazis and Fascist? Fuck yes.
Hence why even if I don't like the Democrat running, I'll vote for them and honestly, Biden isn't too sucktastic. Except for kyrsten sinema, she can fuck right the hell off forever.
- I hate how so many critics talk about they when criticising a political party. Get involved. Run for local office, become a part of the inside of the party. How can Democrats ever represent younger leftists, when so few of the younger leftists let their voice be heard outside of anonymous forums?
  
  Yeah lemme get like $2,000,000 so I can go run for office.
  
  Hey are you involved in your political party? Have you run for local office?
  You aren't also being a hypocrite by telling other people to get involved while not doing it yourself right?
- Do I hate the fact that centrists like Joe Liberman who literally killed universal healthcare in the US are revered and embraced by Biden's party?
  Joe Biden explicitly said he would veto any legislation involving universal healthcare. You oppose universal healthcare, but you're hiding behind the spectre of "centrists".
  
  https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/10/facebook-posts/when-biden-was-asked-if-he-would-veto-medicare-all/
  And again, as a minority in America, I would take Biden over a Nazi any day. Doesn't mean I love him to death and would take him into my arms and give him a reach around but fuck anyone who would vote for a Nazi.
- Do I hate everything going on in this country? Yes. Do I still keep voting to have the same shit happen over and over? Yes.
  
  I mean if you want to vote in a bunch of fucking Nazis and fascists just for some change , well feel fucking free to do so, I'm just going to consider you stupid and a Nazi.
- democrats are fascist.
  
  not literally everything that's bad is fascist
  
  Okay they Billy Madison.
- The party needs to start trying to win apathetic voters over if they’re as terrified as they claim to be of trump, not just spout vague platitudes, push out the most bare bones minimum viable policy possible and then shrug when it gets dismembered in committee.

Liberals would rather blame leftists than actually fight fascism.
- Leftist here. What are you doing to "fight," brother?
  
  They recommend nothing at all.
  Remember comrades,
  -Direct action (strike, strike, strike, preferably imo, and hold ur surplus value hostage)
  -Mutual aid
  -Voting to ensure you can pursue the first 2 with minimal govt interference
  All are acceptable avenues. All are necessary. None are mutually exclusive.
  
  [this space intentionally left blank]
  
  What would you recommend?
- If you look at how many times liberals staged a coup and put a dictator in charge because a country decided to democratically elect a vaguely leftist president you start to realize they much prefer fascism to leftism. Now they're just doing the same thing domestically.
  
  Fascism is colonial imperialism turned inward.
  
  You could say similar about our leftist history. How many countries did we instigate revolutions in to overthrow even somewhat democratic governments?
  Radicals will rationalize anything including putting Trump back into office.
- See: Weimar Republic

Indeed, you've spelled it out plainly: there is no vote option to end the U.S. funding of Israel's genocide in Gaza.
I can either make a vote that won't end it, or I can make a vote that won't end it (and may actually make it worse, as you alluded) and will also lead to significant negative consequences for many groups of people here.
If there’s a single bone in your body that cares about the lives of your trans friends you will too.
Not just trans, but homosexual, non-white, non-religious, women.
- THANK YOU.
- There are several options if you refuse to vote for genocide. You have just decided you don't mind.

Buddy, friend, gamer. It’s march. Can you bring this out in six months? There is no reason to fill everyone’s feed up like this and sow political division on the left over seven months before it’s relevant.
Plus, the pressure looks like it’s working, so a vote for Biden might be a lot more palatable then. A lot of your work might get done automatically

Anyone who doesn’t vote immediately loses the right to complain for the next 4 years.
Don’t like it? Should’ve done your duty and put in a vote.
Fuck you, fence sitters
- Are the fence sitters in the room with us now?
  
  yes. yes they are.
- Ok I'll be voting 3rd party.
  
  Ok, I’ll blame you as well if Trump wins
- If you actually care about trump, actually fear what he will do, maybe you should do everything you can to push for policy that will get the fence sitters to show the fuck up, rather than insulting them.
  Voting does not wash your hands of responsibility for actively pushing away the people you need voting with you.
  
  I cant control policy. Not alone. But right now, we have this election. And it is one of two options
  The idiots that are choosing to abstain or waste a vote on third party are responsible for Trumps victory if it happens. Yes, even moreso than the republicans. Because they could have defended against it but instead chose not to.
  Fuck fence sitters. Fuck abstainers, FUCK THIRD PARTY VOTERS
  You all deserve whatever hell comes for you.
- 4 years? You will not be so lucky if the choice is fascism.

Anyone that isn't voting for Biden is helping someone get into office that will implement wildly homophobic and transphobic policies. People in this thread are really showing their cards.
- I'm a disabled veteran. I know exactly what Trump thinks of us and exactly how he fucked us last time he was in office. But I will not let myself or others be held hostage for our country to support Genocide. If you think you're helping anyone by showing politicians they have no accountability then you're in for a rude awakening.
  
  "Support genocide" in this case means not abandoning a 70 year ally when our other allies are already worried we are fickle and support or dont support them based on whos in charge every 4 years.
  Under dump Eastern Europe gets trampled and the rest of Europe gets pulled into open war.
  We will not teach democrats accountability by throwing our democracy down the pisser to spite them and never have another chance to vote.
- Anyone who doesn’t push for the Democratic Party to support policies that will convince those people to vote are actively doing the same. It takes two to tango, and moderates need to work with the left if they hate trump as much as they claim too.
  
  It's amazing that the vast majority of progressives always come around and vote for the lesser evil, yet we have to listen to this ranting every single time.
  You are right that they should be pushing the Democratic establishment to do better, but there is a reason they don't. They know that progressives are willing to make compromises, but the establishment is not.
  Biden would choose Trump over a progressive candidate. We know this because he did. When the Democrats moved the first primary to South Carolina from New Hampshire, they probably threw away the NH electoral votes, and they know they will never win SC. They would rather Trump win than face another progressive challenger.

So many dumb Americans here not voting. Cutting off your legs so you can hold the moral high ground. Moronic.
- Why is the onus on the left? How come it’s never on moderates for being such poor coalition partners that knee cap their proposals at every opportunity?
  
  Why is the onus on the left to vote left to promote left values? Because that's how voting works?
  I'm not sure how to answer that question. Reword it as "Why is the onus on the right to elect a right-wing candidate?" maybe to see.
  
  The onus is on us all to keep democracy alive.
  It is on us to take all available paths towards alleviating the situation. Voting is the easiest and least u can do. Past that, theres mutual aid and direct action. Take as many paths as u can, but any and all leftward movement must be embraced.
  The "moderates" u mention are the future right wing of the country. The gop is on a sinking ship. Their base is dying (of old age and at twice the rate due to covid), and the youth lean increasingly left. Our time is upon us, but right now trump represents an existential threat to life as we know it. He is a hostile foreign agent and those paths open to us will suddenly close under him.
  
  It is on both the moderates and the left? Because neither group is enough on its own to win?
  You keep asking this question and I find it very hard to believe you don't already know the answer.
  
  who cares about placing blame? you sound like a kid crying to your mommy. JUST DO THE RIGHT THING GODDAMNIT.

f there's a single bone in your body that cares about the lives of your trans friends you will too.
Hey hi, it's me, your trans friend. And you need to put this energy towards protesting Biden instead of leftists. I honestly feel like you are low key getting trolled and missing the point?
Like, seriously, we all know "shithole countries" Trump would be worse on every single issue, including and especially Gaza. But it's six months till the election, PLENTLY of time for a course change by Biden. Absolutely a second Trump term scares the 💩 out of me. So i appreciate where you are coming from, but until it's November, I think pressing Dems and trusting leftists to do whats right day of is the most good y'all can do.
- trusting leftists to do whats right
  i can't trust leftists because leftists are stupid. look how they lost italy, the leftists splintered and refused to work together because of petty shit which allowed the right including literal fascists to take over the government. this is the same type of dumb stuff that happens everywhere with leftists, because of their "holier than thou" attitude.
  i will not leave the election's outcome in the leftists' hands because they always fuck it up when that's the case. they always refuse to cooperate with the enemies of their enemy because they don't see them as left enough, despite it being the only option to not have their long-term goals permanently blocked off, and the country always devolves into diet fascism afterwards. it has lost us many nations throughout history, so no thanks.
  
  This is actually straight up revisionism, it was the Liberals who sided with fascists, rather than working with Leftists to stop the fascists, that directly allowed for Hitler and Mussolini to come to power.

Step 1: defeat Trump Step 2: help reshape Democratic party
Because the fact is, if we don't do step 1 first, we'll have our work cut out for us the next four or more years just being back in 'The Resistance'. Which you know isn't going to make the Dems more liberal, it's going to pull them to the right as more dissatisfied Trump voters finally peel off.
On the other hand, the more resounding of a defeat we can dish out to the GQP and MAGA, the easier it will be to send them into the wilderness to regroup politically so we can focus all of our energies on the Democratic party.
- We defeated Trump in 2020. Nothing changed and Biden spent his entire term catering to liberals and moderates.
  
  And republicans and fascists and corporations and Wall Street.. hmmm but he did almost cancel a lot of student debt, but actual trying to cancel most people’s student debt was “too high”. No cracking down on predatory lending or anything. Plenty of other countries have free college, but its just too damn hard in the worlds richest country, you know jack.
  Earn the vote Biden.
  
  Sorry if I am missing your point - did you think he'd cater to conservatives?
- Not advocating for voting third party, but how do you genuinely plan on reshaping the democrat party, and how would this time be different, compared to the past?
  
  This is my question too. I'm old (Gen X), and I've never seen the Democrats acting progressive. The last time I had hope was in 08 when I volunteered for the Obama campaign, only for him to out himself as yet another conservative wearing progressive clothes once he took office.
  
  Sorry I wasn't clear - I'm saying if you care about reshaping the Dems, you do it after we defeat Trump.
  There is no guarantee it will be different this time, that's politics. But giving up on it isn't an option - politics happens to us whether we are active or not. But if you're hoping for change, it'll be a lot harder to see if Trump gets reelected. I promise you that.
  
  This is a really contrived hypothesis and probably wishful thinking considering the current state of the world, but hear me out:
  You know how the Overton window gets shifted? Rightwing voters grew a lot in the US and Democrats had to get more to the right to appeal to them and not keep losing.
  We just need to force the reverse. If Democrats keep winning elections Republicans will be forced to put out a candidate that’s more palatable to leftists sooner or later. Someone who isn’t a literal movie villain. At that point, Democrats will lose their only selling point (being the alternative to Satan himself), and they will have to actually push for leftist policies to get people to vote.
  This can only happen if Democrats win a lot of times in a row though. Even one Republican win will ensure them that they can keep pushing fascists and have a chance to win.
- Except step one is repeated every. damn. time.
  Its never time to reshape the Democratic Party. If the democrats win, it will be too early to fix the Democratic Party for millions of reasons. And four years pass and every campaign promise is ignored, and all of a sudden it’s back to 1. Beat the new threat to “democracy” 2. Fix the Democratic Party… ad nauseam forever.
  
  It's never too early to help shape the Democratic party, absolutely do it now. But it's a long process and if you can't see how it has changed in the last 20 years already I don't know what to tell you. And beating Trump is priority #1 if we're going to continue on that path.
  
  We can’t do that if people don’t vote actual leftist in the primaries because “commies won’t win the general”.
  
  Bc boomers have strangeholded our govt for decades. Its convenient that now that theyre dying off this is the shit we get to try and elect the actual genocidal maniac and not the dinosaur keeping to the same foreign policy the US has kept for 70 yrs in order to keep our other allies from thinking we will abandon them the way we did the Kurds or Ukraine.
- Fuck that, pass electoral reform so people can vote 3rd party with no spoiler effect and leave these dinosaur political parties in the past where they belong.
  
  Do you think it'll be easier or harder to get electoral reform passed if Trump is elected?

This will be the most important election in the history of the united states. You have two choices, Dictator, or Democracy. A no vote is a vote AGAINST Democracy.
- I hear this every single election.
  Dems - "democracy is at stake! THIS IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN YOUR LIFE"
  Me - *Holds nose and votes for the lesser evil"
  Dems - "thanks guys that was close" Proceeds to sit around with a thumb in their collective asshole for 4 years.
  ...
  Dems - "Democracy is at stake! REALLY guys - THIS is the most important election ever!"
  It's fucking exhausting. If the Dems really wanted people to come out and vote, they would spend less time begging for our votes, and more time representing our collective interests.
  
  They don't sit around at all! They are out there working hard. Suckling the teet of major donors. Pretending they oppose the Republican party.
  
  I hear this every single election.
  Because as we move into the future with a larger population and worse environmental destruction, the stakes become greater.
  Because we've been on the verge of losing our democracy for a couple decades now. I'm almost 50, we've been on the verge since the presidency was taken from Al Gore. It was not this way before that in my lifetime.
  You think one election is going to take a nation on the brink to being in safe harbors? This is a battle for democracy that occurs over multiple elections, why is that so hard to understand? You can only repeat what your friends say?
  
  I hear this every single election.
  Yeah, weird, it's almost like we've been on a slow march towards fascism for decades and as republicans get more and more radicalised they vote for worse and worse candidates as their nominee every election.... or something.
  
  You'd think if they really believed their own bs that democracy was at stake, they would do everything to court votes in swing states, such as, idk, the enormous Arab population in Michigan? Biden clearly prioritizes dead Gazan babies over "democracy."
- Lmao typical DNC advertisement regurgitation. This election is not 'the most important election in history'.
  Third party of bust
  
  Oh wow you're the guy from OPs meme
  
  You may as well be saying "MAGA or bust".
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vote_splitting
  
  How do you expect Trump to do as President if he wins?
- Every fucking election in my lifetime has been “the most important in history”
  You all have cried wolf too many times. If you get eaten, it’s liberals fault.
  
  Aye Komrad
- If it's so important then why isn't Biden doing everything he can to compromise with leftists and progressives? Dude should be standing at a podium begging us like "Please! I'm sorry I blocked the rail strike I won't do it again. Federal workers can continue working remotely. I won't raise the defense budget again. I will fight to block weapon shipments to Israel. Please help me."
  Or is this democracy not worth that to him?
  
  Lol, troll.
- Election of 1860: am i joke to u?
  
  There won't be another election if tRump wins. Komrad

a vote for either candidate is a vote for genocide
Demanding people vote for genocide as a lesser of two evils is where we are at now.
- Remember Biden isn't actually the one doing the genocide. That's Netanyahu and the other Israeli politicians. Let's not delete their blame by including Biden who has been putting in /some/ effort to stop it (not enough imo, but undeniably some). And remember that even if he stopped weapons shipments the day of the invasion, it wouldn't have changed the outcome at all.
  
  Remember Charles Manson wasnt the one that actually did any killings, therefore he must be innocent. Biden is providing the money and weapons to kill, therefore he is responsible, and has done nothing to stop it.
  
  Israel has always been days or weeks away from running out of ammunition and bombs. If shipments stop the bombings would stop. They've reupped and reupped and Biden even bypassed Congress to continue supplying bombs.
  
  He's completely enabling it. The UN would have already stepped in if we weren't blocking anything above saying the words, "Please Stop."
  The criminal justice system recognizes this. It charges the driver, the lookout, and the trigger puller with Felony Murder.
- Either vote for harm reduction or watch as the former president implements a final solution.
  
  How is genocide harm reduction? Is Trump gonna genocide harder or something?
- You can vote for The guy who says Tut Tut to the genocidal madman or the guy that says, "finish the job".
  There are also other issues at play. They are both a vote for genocide but one of them would like to bring that here there and everywhere!
- We need to make it personal.
  Vote for Biden so I can keep my job.
- As I see it, the genocide is not up for a vote since neither candidate will stop it. It's the other issues that are up for vote.
  They've decided to do genocide regardless of what the voters want.
  
  They've decided to do genocide regardless of what the voters want.
  That may be what they decided, but that is never an argument against fighting genocide. There is still a window of opportunity for that course to change, and the dire nature of this election is a part of it.
  
  you live in a bubble. i don't think the majority of americans sees it the way you do. i see it the way you do, but you shouldn't assume that just because your personal social media feed is pro-palestine that it's unanimous across the US.
- It’s a sad state of affairs, but as of now what other choice is there?
  
  Think about it for a moment: people are opposing a genocide. Do you think if Biden called for a ceasefire or ended his support for a genocidal regime it would cost him votes?
  People sure acting like that is the case the way people are opposing genocide as a valid electoral issue.
  So shit, right now?: Bully the everloving fuck out of Biden and anyone supporting the genocide Israel is conducting in Gaza. Fuck them and their genocide. Make it an electoral issue. See what influence can be made between now and voting day, like a properly engaged member of a political system.
- It really is something when you can put yourself into that position and trying to whip votes on this platform of all places instead of calling for a violent revolution.

Why are you trying to pressure people to vote for the guy facilitating genocide, instead of for Biden to stop facilitating genocide?
The only explanations I can come up with are either that you support what he is doing, or on some level, you understand we have no influence on policy and so trying to get Biden to do things that will get people to vote for him is a waste of time.
This same shit happened when Obama did fuckall about Bush's policies and endlessly compromised. Of course, the voters were blamed when Obama lost the house and senate, and in 2016 too.
- OP explicitly states a vote for Biden isnt a vote for genocide.
  Regardless, Trump would be an absolute nightmare for the Palestinians...so your argument is not in good faith and just want to invoice emotional responses.
  OP recognizes the system there is right now in the US is badly flawed, but since nobody did shit about fixing it these last 4 years you have a choice of pinching your nose and swallowing bad medicine or never have a voice again.
  
  Well in that case, I'm explicitly stating that a vote for Biden is a vote for a dog taking a crap right in your mouth...
  That's not how it works, if you vote for the guy doing a genocide, you are voting for genocide.
  I am highly doubtful trump would be worse. All his rhetoric is about ending the conflict, and he was significantly more peaceful than every other president dating back to Reagan at least. He got us out of Afghanistan and didn't start a new war, unlike every other president since Reagan.
  
  Israel is already getting all they want from the US, you really can't call a side participating in ethnic cleansing a lesser evil, we're already at 100% evil.
  But this misses the point, to even be posting this shows that you have no hope that Biden will stop the genocide. If you expected the democrats to listen to the people whose votes they need, you'd be telling us he's gonna do the thing we all want and stop the genocide any day now, and begging the dems to not fuck this up.
- Do you honestly think Trump would even try to negotiate a ceasefire?
  
  Trump will do whatever people pay him the most to do as long as it's not upholding his oath of office.

People need to understand that it's possible to vote against genocide.
No, it doesn't matter that he's an active participant in the apparatus that's creating the genocide, because if he's in office there's less genocide. Which is the important part, and pretending otherwise is sophistry. If you abstain from voting, you are increasing the likelihood of more genocide and if you discourage others from voting, you are an active participant in the overall social apparatus that is probabilistically increasing the amount of genocide.
The utility calculation is dead simple: more votes for Biden in key states makes more genocide less likely, and discouraging people from voting for Biden makes more genocide more likely. Therefore, discouraging people from voting for Biden is a pro-genocide strategy and voting for Biden in battleground states is an anti-genocide strategy. I live in a solid blue state, so I reserve the right to vote third party, but I will also encourage other people to vote for Biden.
You should vote for Biden unless you live in a solid blue state, and even then it's not a bad idea.
Edit: grammar correction
- Even if you're in a solid blue state, vote for Biden. Because you don't know if it's your vote that pushes your state over that line.
  
  I think your stance on the issue is entirely reasonable.
- The endgame of your utility calculation is genocidal. 30 years from now, I suspect you'll still be blasting this "vote blue no matter who" nonsense when the choice is between a dem supporting 5 genocides and a repub supporting 10 genocides. You've been anchor biased hard as fuck.
  
  What's your plan that makes the endgame not genocidal? Remember to make it fit reality.
  
  Let's suppose there are going to be genocides, what's better, 5 or 10?
  
  In your hypothetical 30 years in the future scenario, this would still be a "more genocide" and "less genocide" pick. We should never have genocide but there's no way to express that in the US binary voting system, so the choice would have to be tactical.
  What do you propose instead?
  
  Wow how edgy. I don't like either candidate so I'll protest-stay-home. As if not voting is a form of protest.
  Actually I'm legitimately curious. Where did that idea come from? Where did you get the idea that voting = endorsement.
  If you were stranded in the wilderness and your options were to eat bug1 or bug2, would you choose to starve to death because "well, I just don't want people to think that I enjoy eating cockroach". Get over yourself and your childish mindset. Choosing not to participate is still making a choice.
  Maybe when the maga fanatics come for your lgbt+ friends and family you'll think differently. Or maybe not. I don't know you or how comfortable you are with the maga end-game.
  
  I'm a transhumanist; my endgame is the abolition of all hardships including involuntary death. I want as many as possible among the those alive today to experience the universe beyond the fading of the last stellar remnants. That means clawing and fighting in every way I can and know how to allow as many people alive now to continue living. That means less genocide is better than more genocide, which in turn means that the immediate goal is making a Biden victory as likely as possible as I prepare more long-term projects. The long-term projects eliminate genocide. The Short term projects mitigate genocide. More successful short term projects increases the likelihood of more successful long-term projects.
  In short: it is incredibly small-minded, presumptuous, and uncharitable of you to assume that I think voting is the only part of this massive game. Fuck off.

Let us not forget how much Trump hates environmental regulation. He will auction off America's treasures for whoever sticks enough money in his pocket. Biden has done a pretty decent job of maintaining the old guard mentality of preservation and conservation (as imperfect as that may be).
I wish more people cared about the environment.

but anyone with half a brain knows there are two choices in the 2020 election.
Anyone who isn't brainwashed by government propaganda and who is in good faith knows that supporting corrupted criminals is never the smart thing to do and that keeping voting for the "lesser evil" is exactly how sooner or later you end up with a dictator in power.
Not voting isn’t going to stop the genocide in Gaza.
Not supporting these fueling the genocide is indeed a way to stop the genocide. The US will continue to do as it please them and aid israel government because they are confident that neither red or blue will lose the elections and they will not lose any power. Unsupporting these parties will force them to change their policies not to lose any votes and lose their monopoly on power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Israel_in_the_2023_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war
There's a genocide happening right now where thousand of kids already were murdered and keep getting murderer as we speak. For these innocent people and not for the love of any god people should overthrow and fight the corrupted criminals that are making it possible, not supporting scum is already the smallest thing you should do.
- keeping voting for the “lesser evil” is exactly how sooner or later you end up with a dictator in power.
  Do you have a source for this claim? The US has been voting this way for 250 years, and it's citizens have more rights than ever so forgive me for being a little bit skeptical.
  
  it’s citizens have more rights than ever so forgive me for being a little bit skeptical.
  How's those rights to bodily autonomy going?
- I think these parties would sooner abandon no-voters who want change rather than actually change.

Now is the time to pressure Biden. This is the tender time where leftists can actually force consessions, and those won't happen if you "Vote Blue no matter who" the situation as Biden is actively facilitating a genocide. Even if you ultimately plan on voting for him, you must pressure him now as though you may not, or you will be spinelessly contributing to even more genocide.
Biden supports genocide because Israel is a valuable ally to the US empire as a foothold in the Middle East, and will only go against that if it looks like it may cost him the election. Do not assume Biden is a good person that just needs to "see reason," that's utter Utopianism. Biden has his interests, and we have ours, so to steer him we need to fight hard, now.
Please save this sentiment for after Leftists have successfully pressured Biden into ending the genocide, not while he is actively arming Israel.
- But how do you actually press someone in that position? If Trump didn’t support genocide you could at least try and leverage on that, but he knows we have no alternative.
  We’re in a situation where he knows every person with a brain that doesn’t want fascism will vote for him. He can only realistically be pressed to make changes that could appeal to Rightwing voters, and being pro-genocide might actually be a positive for those.
  
  The "uncommited" movement is forcing concessions. It's a game of chicken, but it's our most valuable influence on elections.

It's a good time to not be American and not having voting for one of those pricks on your conscience
- It's a bad time to not be an American because that country holds far too much sway over the rest of the world and you can't even help picking the lesser poison.
- Jill Stein and Cornel fucking West are also on the ballot.
  
  I've had "leftists" here on lemmy act like Stein and West are legitimate candidates. She hasn't gotten any traction any other time she's run and I'm not sure why this time would be any different.

I'm voting for a third party instead of the slightly less evil fascist. I recommend y'all do as well. Dr. West and Claudia La Cruz are good options.
If you're not in a swing state I recommend you do the same.
- That's your right. You aren't even required to understand that the consequences of your actions are that you're making it easier for a guy who said he wants to be a Dictator, a guy who said he "wants to finish the problem" with regards to Palestinian genocide, a guy who has probably just been outright purchased by a conglomerate of foreign influence.
  You're giving that guy a helping hand.
  And that's your right.
  
  only a vote for a candidate helps that candidate
  
  Biden and his foolish decisions are giving that guy a helping hand. Try telling Biden to stop being a fucking moron if he wants to win the election.
  
  Bro, I live in one of the bluest states. It will not go red. If I were in a swing state I'd understand where you're coming from. If you don't understand the difference then this conversation isnt productive.
- 100%. Blue MAGA's going to come out in force on this thread. If you're in CA or similar "will go blue no matter what" state, there's no reason for principled leftists to vote for Biden. Same with "will go red no matter what" states.
  
  There is this notion that most states are "solid red or blue"... except we keep getting surprised in elections, and polling has been shit since at least the 2016 election. I don't want people in TX giving otherwise Biden votes to some 3rd party when the state as a whole has been trying to become more blue.
  Trump's new slogan is going to be "Take America Back". You can buy the merch on AliExpress right now. His followers don't interpret that to mean "by voting".
  Save the 3rd party virtue signals for a time when we're not on the verge of a civil war. The message we should all be sending right now is unified support for the guy who can keep Trump out of the oval office.
  
  Ayyye exactly 👈😎. Glad you're on the same page stranger.

Fucking hell, the liberals are using trans people as an excuse to throw the palestinians under the bus.
Look, if you're going to disregard the palestinians' human rights, then there will come a time when you'll do the same for trans people, and they are amart enough to know that.
The queer people's greatest strength is solidarity so spoiler alert, this won't really fly, how about you use your vote as a bargaining chip instead of sTrATegIcALly voting no questions asked?
- I'm trans. You're not helping anything.
  
  Neither are you.
  
  Neither is voting blindly, which can be used as a justification for Biden doing nothing against the genocide. Being passive is making things worse.
- See what happens to the Palestinians when Trump gets elected you lazy piece of shit. I'm done with you self-serving assholes.
  
  See what's happening to the Palestinians now under Biden.
  
  Advocating people put political pressure on a candidate to change policy = lazy.
  Getting off your ass once every few years to vote, and do it unconditionally = the embodiment of activism.
  ps. Calling me lazy for not voting in the americans' elections is a very smart move.
  
  Tankies and their ilk don't understand the concept of "worse". They are only intelligent enough to understand "Biden means genocide, can't vote for him", anything outside that thought is beyond their capacity.
  I mean, what do you expect from people who think that strategies that failed 100 years ago are somehow going to work now in a totally different world?
- A bargaining chip backed by what? "Clean up your act or you'll lose one of your approximately 100 million votes?"
  Oh, but no, we should get all our friends in on it too, so they'll lose maybe 10,000 of their 100 million votes if they don't clean up their act.
  No one but you knows your favorite third-party candidate exists, and unless you want to become their campaign manager that will still be true in November. Even if you did, and even if you convinced two thirds of the people who would otherwise have voted for Biden to vote for your chosen candidate instead, Trump would still win because half the country voted for him and your guy only got a third. If you vote third party you might as well stay home.
  Not voting isn’t going to stop the genocide in Gaza. The US will continue to funnel them arms no matter which candidate wins this November. Trump practically campaigns on how much he hates the Jews and he’s publicly told Israel to “finish up their war” so that life for Israelis can go back to normal. He’ll also make life a living hell for anyone who isn’t a straight cisgender male back here at home.
  A vote for a candidate is not an endorsement of them or their policies, it’s a statement that you like their policies more than the other guy’s, and “sticking it to liberals” and “refusing to support genocide” (that’s not what voting for Biden is doing, by the way – a vote for either candidate is a vote for genocide and a vote for neither is an endorsement of both) is not more important than keeping the furthest right politician America has ever seen out of office.

As you read through these comments, note that anyone using the phrase "the liberals", followed by some condescending remark, are voting for trump.
- None of them are voting for Trump. Some may be voting for a third party, some will vote for Biden.
  
  I've never heard an actual human talk that way who wasn't deeeep into MAGA.
- Or the equivalent of voting for trump, anyway. And also note that they seem very angry over the notion that ppl will vote for biden while pursuing other forms of change or at the very least advocating for them.

I hate Biden as much as every other leftist here. But I'll still vote for him because Trump is worse. If there's a single bone in your body that cares about the lives of your trans friends you will too.
I'm a trans person. Here's what I'm most concerned about: the dehumanization of Palestinians and immigrants. Biden has gone along 100% with the dehumanization of these groups
how the fuck am I supposed to trust Democrats that claim to support trans people when this is how they support Palestine? This is a president thats supporting an ongoing genocide while persuing draconian immigration policies. Am I supposed to just throw those groups under the bus for my own personal gain?
You've made it abundantly clear that if Biden was pushing anti-trans policies, you'd still support him. You've made it clear there is absolutely nothing Biden could do that would lose your support.
- It's not about support. It's not about 100% agreement with Biden's policies. It's about using your vote as a tactical choice to influece the government as best you can.
  Each US citizen has three options: vote for Trump, vote for Biden, or don't vote. For me it's clear what the only viable choice is.
  By all means protest. By all means vote undecided in the primary. Of course we should use other means to put pressure on someone like Biden to change his policies. But at the end of the day he's playing the tactical game too. And so is Israel, btw. They know that the US is weakened by the election cycle, that Biden's hands are tied right now by the need to retain centrist votes.
  It's a practical decision, that should be made not based on an ideal world, but based on the real world in which we currently live and the options we actually have.
  
  How does commiting to voting for Biden this far out from the election influence his policy? If he knows he has the leftist vote, why would he change? Why would leftists give up the only leverage allowed to them to continue genocide and liberalism, rather than protest and force concessions from Biden?
- Yeah you're right, trump is better. /S Don't let perfect be the enemy of progress. Trump will ensure to help Israel, and he will look for more ways to hurt trans people.
  
  Yeah you're right, genocide is not a deal breaker. /S
  
  Not just Israel. But Russia too.
  
  There is no better time to make demands from the Democratic Party than right. now. as they need progressives and leftists to win. They have shown time and time again they are not willing to change their party in times of ease.

Why dont you pressure Biden to stop genociding people then? I have a hard and fast rule about genocide, sorry but present day me doesn't make the rules about who I vote for.
- Do you believe Trump/Republicans will decrease, maintain, or increase the current genocide levels?
  
  I mean Biden spent more on the immigrant wall than Trump, so prob less genocide somehow, seeing as how there is precedent. Funny how none of the presidents tackle the corporation side of the “immigrant problem” by going after people hiring the undocumented if that is such a big problem. You remove the incentive that would slow it down more than trying to torture people at the border no?

Not voting isn’t going to stop the genocide in Gaza.
maybe it will stop the next one though
if democrats learn that allowing a genocide to unfold on their watch is going to lose them elections, you can bet they'll put more effort into stopping it
if democrats learn that allowing genocide to unfold on their watch actually doesn't make that much difference, why would they bother themselves to stop it?
A vote is not an unconditional endorsement
a vote for a candidate is an endorsement for all of their policies, whether you want it to be or not
your reluctant vote looks exactly the same on the tally as somebody else's wholehearted vote, and votes are what politicians base their platforms on.
If you vote third party you might as well stay home.
this is just a misconception
if the democrats lose a million votes to a third party, then yeah, they're going to modify their policies next time around
- next time
  Woah, calm down buddy. No reason why there should be a next time. Republicans are already creating projects as if there isn't.
  
  if you think voting for biden this time is more important, then by all means do that
  just understand the choice you're making, rather than pretending one doesn't exist
  
  Republicans trying to dismantle democracy and install an authoritarian government?
  Sounds serious.
  So when are democrats dropping gun control? Clearly there is a imminent existential threat to our nation!
  SocialistRA.org
- The United States won't be destroyed by a handful of people not getting off their collective ass on election day and 3rd parties aren't viable.
  
  3rd parties aren’t viable
  this is just a misconception
  if the democrats lose a million votes to a third party, then yeah, they're going to modify their policies next time around

If moderates really don’t want trump to win so bad, maybe they should make some real commitments to policy changes that the left want, not just half baked, watered down “market based” solutions that get shredded to a skeleton in committee.
Moderates can scream their lungs out all they want, but talk is cheap, and if they want the left on side they should earn that and not act so entitled to their support. Trump is bad, he shouldn’t win, but why is it on the left to keep him from winning? Why is it never the moderates fault for failing to hold up their end of the coalition?
- Bc the left has a really hard time coming together and we wont get another election if we dont.
  
  Stop pretending to be on the left.
  https://midwest.social/comment/8554707:
  “Support genocide” in this case means not abandoning a 70 year ally when our other allies are already worried we are fickle and support or dont support them based on whos in charge every 4 years.
  
  The left never had a good story. The right will be there, proclaiming how kicking the immigrants out or whatever will make the world better. It might not be true, but it gets attention and votes. The left will tell you how this list of 50 law changes will make things less bad.

If I reply with STOP will these "please vote" memes go away? Because I'm gonna vote the way everybody wants me to and they're almost as annoying as the texts I get from the DNC.
- Out of curiosity, though, who do you think you'll vote for in November? I'm personally voting for Biden if he's on the ballot, if he steps down then Kamala I guess.
  The RNC can swap candidates at the last moment and I still wouldn't vote for them.
  My state isn't a key state nor is it leaning blue so Independent is a good option for me if they get enough signatures.
  
  I live in a swing district in a swing state so I must vote blue no matter who.
  Yay democracy.
  The more I hear about it the more I hate this stupid system.
- I wish meme communities had a ban on political memes.
- Then don't engage. Some people apparently need to see this, judging from the comments here.

You seem mad at ME because THEY don't give enough of a shit
I've been saying it for MONTHS. If they run biden they WILL lose.
I do not WANT them to lose, I am just informing you of the outcome babe.
- Good thing they got electable Hillary on the ballot.
  
  Are you suggesting she wasn't electable? She had 3 million more votes than Trump, and only lost overall because of a few thousand votes in specific states. it was almost down to a coin flip. She was entirely electable.
- Except for his SOTU, Biden has run a horrible campaign. And it's not clear Biden can offer that SOTU energy as much as his campaign needs.
  Liberals can't challenge the liberal order, so they end up punching down with memes like these. Basically mimicking the right. This is no way to hold the democratic coalition together.
  
  punching down
  Yeah, that's not what this meme is doing. I'm sorry you feel attacked by it.

Hard pass there, votes are earned, and Biden has given us thousands of reasons why we shouldnt vote for him and none as to why.
- are you worried about what will happen if trump wins?
  
  I'm worried about what happens if our political elite begin operating with zero accountability. It doesn't matter who that is.
  
  He might even stop the war with Russia. Could you imagine? Trump was the first President in decades to not start a new war. Could you IMAGINE? No new wars and even ending wars like he did in Afghanistan? THE VERY IDEA!
  It's always funny to me how liberals want people to get all puffed up about "what will happen if Trump wins" when in reality pretty much nothing bad happened last time he was President. The economy was booming and he ended the wars Americans wanted ended for over 20 years.
  People seem to believe that they have to be hyper focused on identity politics and ignore the bigger picture. Remember during the BLM protests when crazed liberals were screaming the phrase "PEOPLE ARE DYING" with regards to police brutality in the US? Yet where are they now that tanks are literally "rolling over brown bodies" using US taxpayer money?
  It's all a scam. Dumb liberals need to wake up and look at the bigger picture and stop being used as pawns by people who hate them.
- He has forgiven student loans, reunited children it their families at the border, and he is the first president to so openly acknowledge and put forth anything towards climate change.
  The other option is daddy big boot stamping down on anyone who doesnt think like he.
  To push left, all increments of change should be embraced. Those who stage disruptive strikes will get the majority of my respect, but by diversifying efforts we reach further ends.
  
  reunited children [with] their families at the border
  Sure, in outdoor concentration camps:
  CNN:
  The declarations filed as part of this new legal challenge came from aid workers, attorneys and a doctor, as well as a child and two fathers who were at the camps this month. They allege children have gone days without eating, and at night, their cries can be heard throughout the camp.
- none as to why.
  I like that he's doing more to fight climate change
  It's also been nice to see money put towards public infrastructure, as opposed to the last guy who put all the money into tax cuts for the rich and racist border walls. We might even get some high speed electric trains soon.
- He just gave us 1800 more reasons today.

I just can't believe it's gonna be these two losers again. This is our best and brightest?
Lame.
- The best and brightest put them there because it made them more money. This problem won't go away until the system is changed.
  
  The system will never change if people like these never do anything to make it stop.
  
  WE put them there, Biden didn't end up there because Berkshire Hathaway appointed him, citizens voted for him in the primary, by a larger amount than many on the left admit. You don't win on leftist issues at the ballot box, the ballot box is where you repair the levee wall so water doesn't come rushing in. You win on leftist issues every day before and every day after the election. Voting isn't an act of change, it's an act of consensus building. If you don't like where that consensus landed, then the work needs to be done to change minds.

Let's be real, this isn't about people not voting anymore.
Those of us who have resolved to vote Biden despite much of our displeasure towards the handling of Israel/Gaze were going to do so anyways. You won't convince those who have decided not to vote this way either.
Screaming at people to vote will not make them want to vote. Worst case scenario you piss them off enough that the spite vote against you. People aren't puppets for you to control by telling them what's in their bests interests and demanding they follow through. You have to work with them in a pleasant manner if you genuinely want to convince them.
But again, I don't think this is about people not voting anymore. Some people are genuinely unhappy that others are unhappy with their options for candidates. So many people on the moderate left can't be satisfied with the fact that they have such a firm grip on intelligent voters who understand the status quo. It's not enough for them to know that our options are bleak and that we have to vote for someone supporting genocide, versus letting someone who would openly participate in genocide get in office. You genuinely want us to shut up and stop complaining and to stop criticizing the current administration.
Also, the amount of people I've seen discuss implementing mandatory voting as if it wasn't a trait of an authoritarian government is insane. Maybe if our voting process had more options it wouldn't be authoritarian, but as it stands now making voting mandatory would be little more than coercion.
- Mandatory voting usually just amounts to requiring people show up at the polls, they can spoil ballots or write in joke candidates.
  It’s not exactly authoritarian, but it wouldn’t really change the situation like some think it would.
  Really, the moderate left needs to get it through their fucking heads that the left aren’t their fucking rebound date when the moderate right shits the bed.
  If they want the left’s vote, if they fucking want to keep trump from winning, they need to appeal to voters not just patronizingly talk down to them.
  The onus is as much on the moderates as it is on the left.
  
  I consider it more so authoritarian in this context due to the expectations of those demanding it.
  Joke candidates/blank ballots would not stand with them. Part of voting is being able to withhold your vote, to utilize your vote as leverage to ensure your representatives work for you, and that's a big freedom that's would be stripped away here. You're right that it probably wouldn't change much though. You'd potentially do more damage by having uninformed voters who wouldn't otherwise show up submitting ballots.
  You summed up most of my feelings rather nicely though.
  Personally, I don't believe the moderates truly hate Trump as much as they say they do. In fact, they appreciate him. He is the perfect looming threat that they can use to coerce us into voting for them without them having to compensate or do any meaningful work towards addressing voter's concerns.
  Either that, or they are genuinely tone-deaf and out of touch. Take your pick I suppose.
- If we (leftists) want ranked choice voting, we should probably vote against the guy who doesnt want any more elections after this.
  The democratic base is aging just as the gop is. The base they will have to cater towards to survive, is going to be more progressive. We need to survive til then to take that situation and use it to our ends to shift the overton window as far left as she goes.
  
  Stop pretending to be a leftist. You support the genocide.
  https://midwest.social/comment/8554707:
  “Support genocide” in this case means not abandoning a 70 year ally when our other allies are already worried we are fickle and support or dont support them based on whos in charge every 4 years.
- Screaming at people to vote will not make them want to vote. Worst case scenario you piss them off enough that the spite vote against you.
  if people are that petty and childish, then fuck it. let them live in their spite world alongside the sociopathic, conservative right. i'm so sick of the lack of humanity in america.
- Completely agree, I also think it's baffling people equate the whole gaza thing to Biden, good luck finding any American president who doesn't grab his ankles for israel

I’m voting for the people I most like on the ballot. Isn’t that what you’re supposed to do?
- No, not in FPTP. You vote for the candidate who you least disagree with out of those with a reasonable chance of victory, or you waste your vote.
  
  So… by voting my conscience I don’t get a vote? I was literally brought up with the idea that if enough people pressure one of the parties one way or the other they might start embracing your ideas. And that was supposed to be how this worked.
  
  FPTP stands for First Past The Post voting for anyone wondering what the acronym means.
- In the primaries but not the general

I really don't see the point in voting when the executive and legislative branches are bought and paid for with candidates I don't approve of.
Bernie Sanders' constituents are incredibly fortunate. The candidates available for my districts oppose socialized medicine, returning stock market regulations (e.g. outlawing stock buybacks), and the 32 hour workweek mandate.
When I have someone I can vote for, then I'll vote. Otherwise fuck it, waste of my time.
- And we get Trump again because of idiots like you. THAT is why you vote: to prevent a fucking fascist from getting elected.
  
  Bullshit. Blame the useless DNC. They're the ones that we got elected and they've done NOTHING with it except for fuel a genocide.
  It is up to the party to make it worth voting for them.
  Fuck this bullshit attitude of blaming the voters. It's up to the ones in power.
  Everyone hates the way things are going, and the main point of the DNC is to maintain the status quo. The status quo is going to get all of us killed.
- waste of my time.
  It's very nice to have that luxury, but please try to think of the less fortunate who will be hurt most by MAGA policies.
  
  Ah yes. Because the Democrats really have changed things this time around! They really have dealt with the issues that we're all so worried about!
  Oh wait! Shit is still exactly the same and none of our big problems have been addressed AT ALL.
  In fact, things are worse now because we're paying for a goddamn genocide.
  
  What makes being disenfranchised by such a corrupt gerrymandered district that you become disengaged from your own leadership a luxury?
- I ask again, where is the democracy?
  
  If it's not a democracy, then what is it? I think the onus is on you to at least provide a hypothesis.
  (And yes, it's a constitutional republic, I'm not here to play word games)

you guys just dont want to get it do you?
i dont care about making you feel better with your right wing democrat. go actually do something about trump if you care so much.
- I don't want to get it?
  Half the comments in this thread consist exclusively of arguments addressed in the original post, and when I reply explaining it more simply they admit point blank to not reading my response and insist on continuing to not vote... and I'm the one who doesn't want to get it?
  Sweet lord, there is no talking to you people.
  I don't feel good about the democrat. I don't want to feel good about the democrat. But unlike some people I could name I will not assist in putting a self-professed dictator back in power.
  What do you propose I do about Trump? Assassinate him?
  
  nobody is even advocating not to vote, but you guys keep insisting thats what we are saying. go vote if you want to.
  we are just saying scribbling on a ballot and casting it for a right winger wont change any outcome. biden is just as fascist, hes just not bragging about it. the us is already not democratic, this is just theater.
  they wont let you vote their power away. you want change go organize with any leftist organization at all, strike, disrupt and disobey collectively with them. socialism is the only thing that was ever capable of stopping fascists.
  the rich seem to want trump anyway and its already too late to stop him, but he doesnt matter if you force their hand instead of just apathetically voting every 4 years like it will save you from fascism.
- Honestly? Posts like yours make me consider voting for Trump just to show the world the consequences of your attitude. Maybe after you and everyone you love end up hunted down by the death squads or put on a train, the idea that maybe, just maybe, you should've reconsidered while you still had the chance will enter your head. Fuck it, I already enlisted in the military, might as well wear the jackboot while I'm at it.
  
  Least psycho boot boy.

It's crazy to me that you don't have a mandatory voting system. Hopefully enough on the left gets out and votes. I do have a feeling that due to tRump losing a portion of his base, he may lose simply because of a lack of votes.
- Don't be fooled by these posts. Plenty of us will be voting 3rd party but that's not what these people want either.
  
  At that point you're voting for trump and that's all there is to it.
- i lile where you are coming from but keep in mind that a mandatory voting system with no other measures would backfire pretty quick due to a lack of infrastructure.
  the US establishment benefits from about 1/3 of the population not voting, with a good chunk of those being literally unable to attend polls due to inaccessibility and long lines in combination with not getting the day off. attempts to increase voting turnout are met with extreme and immediate hostility. see the recent backlash against taylor swift simply telling people to register to vote.
  same goes for preferential voting/abolishing FPTP. it’s not so much crazy it doesn’t exist yet as par for the course. the entire country is fucked, not just a couple voting measures that americans are too lazy to implement or something.

Switching away from first past the post voting allows people to vote for who represents them best while still counting their vote against those they dont want to win. Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoilereffect exists that makes third parties not viable.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
So what’s the hold up with the rest of the states? Consider starring a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
- The whigs (conservative but more left relatively) and the democrats (conservative but more right relatively) back in the day were facing a similar moral issue. The whigs refused to answer the question of "what do we do about slavery" and a ton of whig and anti-slavery voters formed their own party (Lincoln's republicans) because they didn't want slavery anymore. This is how 3rd parties win- by another party dying. As far as I'm concerned, both republicans and democrats need to be replaced with something more representative, but if I were to make a guess, the Democratic Party will be the first to die.

Yes, vote! The Green Party needs to get at least 5% to qualify for funding.
- The Green Party and the Libertarian Party are how we got Trump the first time around. The stakes are too high.
  
  That's a bit disingenuous, don't you think? Hillary won the popular vote, but herself was completely unwilling to concede to leftists, and as such she lost some of that vote.
  Toeing the establishment line isn't a good thing, nor is blaming dissafected voters the right place to blame. Blame Hillary and the DNC for fighting against progressives instead of working with them.
  
  Why blame the Green Party and the Libertarian Party for the DNC's failure? The DNC always says we have to vote for the lesser of two evils. The DNC always says next time we can get a better candidate.
  The parties are the same. The Dems just pretend to be better. When real issues come around, they have the same policies.
  Third party or bust.

There aren't many people that call themselves leftist and elections are won for Democrats by getting disinterested voters to the polls.
This meme is trash and serves no purpose other than dividing people. Anyone worried about Biden to losing this election should hope he changes strategies and starts motivating voters like he did 2020.
- Your strategy for stopping MAGA is... hoping harder?
  
  Hoping is all any of us can do. There is only one leader that can fix Biden's campaign, and that person ain't me.
  I've tried to message the campaign only to get ignored. I won't stop that, but one voter who doesn't live in a swing state doesn't actually have any say in the Electoral College.
- Seriously, people need to stop condescending to disaffected voters and start screaming at their representatives and local party leaders to support policies that will actually excite voters.
  The onus is on the Democratic Party to win this election, not on everyone to the left of them to drag a stagnant DNC over the finish line.
  
  Imagine an America where we expected leaders to fix shit...
- He could do a total 180 and most of us will still remember what hes allowed to happen. I expect politicians to do what's right the first time, not because it might impact their chances of staying in power.
  
  Yea, I hate the dupoly too. But as the difference between candidates grows, so does the motivation to vote for one.
  Let's say Biden stops the genocide and holds Netenyahu to account. Muslims in swing states have a real reason to show up and vote because Trump would definitely allow the genocide to restart.

I'm not okay with either of them having a second term right now.
- Yeah, well, tough. One of 'em's gonna. And it might as well be the one who at least pretends not to be a genocidal dictator.
  
  So it's fine if he's actually a genocidal dictator? Just as long as you have some sugar with it eh?
- I'm much less okay with the Republicans having a first term. A vote not against Republicans is a vote to let the Heritage Society's Project 2025 move forward.
  
  Let's not pretend Democrats are going to do anything to stop it from going forward. They won't put it into action for them but they aren't going to stop them from enacting it at the state level. They've already refused to rebalance the supreme court and get rid of the filibuster. So it's really just a vote to partially delay project 2025.

People think we have lived in a world of Democrats vs. Republicans. However, it’s always been a case of the rich vs. the not rich. The rich always wins, the rich always supports the rich, and the rich doesn’t give a flying fuck about you if you’re not a millionaire or a billionaire. So we can argue over Trump vs. Biden until we’re blue in the face. And we all know Trump is a piece of shit, but if you think Biden will do anything in the next 4 years that he didn’t do the previous 4 years you are delusional. I will vote for Biden, but I understand the outcome. Anyone that thinks Biden will do shit for them is either rich or lying to themselves.

Not voting is not a statement that either or is okay. Not voting sends a clear signal that you don't want voting rights, you don't believe in people having voices in how they are ruled.

If i’m being realistic with myself the reason I won’t vote is because it’s futile. The USA like to give you the illusion of choice and “Democracy” while at the same time having the most undemocratic two-party system any civilized nation can have. Going through the process of voting for either a genocider or a fascist is a waste of my time, and that time can be spent playing another game of league or whatever, at least I’ll have some fun. America won’t change because of my vote, or any of your votes. America will change because of coordinated, collective action from unions and when people decide to eat the rich.
And i’d even argue that refusing to vote IS democratic and not necessarily evil. Biden committed a genocide, he needs to feel the consequences of a disinterested and conflicted democratic base.
I think we should stop rationalizing and proselytizing the act of voting. Choosing to vote for red, green or blue, or not choosing to vote at all, is a personal decision. Rationalizing it won’t do anyone any favors, and demonizing people that don’t vote or don’t vote for your personal candidate because it doesn’t fit in your ideology just makes you a bigot.
- America will change because of coordinated, collective action from unions and when people decide to eat the rich.
  Are you participating in strikes? Have you set up a date to show up on Jeff Bezos' lawn with signs and refuse to leave?
  
  Are you participating in strikes?
  I would if i was employed
  Have you set up a date to show up on Jeff Bezos’ lawn with signs and refuse to leave?
  Again, that won't change anything
- You’re a fool if you think that “nothing will change” under trump. You think you’ll have a better chance affecting change after we slide even further towards fascism? You think lgbt and poc aren’t going to be persecuted even more?
  
  Hence why i’m not voting for trump 🤷‍♀️
- The US is in this weird place where voters still hold nearly all the power in elections, but nobody feels like their vote matters because they never get what they want. This is by design, the general election is designed to be about compromise and getting the closest representation of the will of all the country that one person can possibly hope to be. Biden and Trump are who the averaged (Voting) American thinks should run the country whether you like it or not.
  Primaries are for making statements to the candidates and the country then general elections are where, in a democratic system with a one person branch of government and multiple parties, you will almost certainly have to compromise at least a little because somewhere in the process your perfect ideals were overruled.
  Not voting when able is throwing away any right to complain, if you didn't exercise your right to representation in the primary, then you voluntarily waived any standing to complain about the general election candidates, but should still choose one as this is the only step in the presidential election process where one candidate is guaranteed to lead the country and not voting is again throwing away your most accessible tool for representation.
  This doesn't mean you aren't able to take other actions to influence policy after an election like protest, demonstrations, or even seeking some level of office yourself.
  This needs to be more known, Not voting isn't protesting a candidate, it's only hurting those who agree with you most.
  Third party is only slightly less useless with our current election system, at least it exercises ones representation, but is counter intuitive as it also makes whichever of the larger two parties that more closely aligns with you less likely to win. And this becomes more and more true the larger the 3rd party becomes and skews the whole point about the president being the averaged choice away from the center. Currently it's better to influence one of the major parties instead similar to what we've seen with the democratic party and unions and the republican party and authoritarianism.
  
  voters still hold nearly all the power in elections
  Studies have shown that is a lie. Voters have zero impact on politicians or policies, only money has that power.
  
  Not voting when able is throwing away any right to complain, if you didn’t exercise your right to representation in the primary, then you voluntarily waived any standing to complain about the general election candidates, but should still choose one as this is the only step in the presidential election process where one candidate is guaranteed to lead the country and not voting is again throwing away your most accessible tool for representation.
  That makes sense actually. I'll grant you that the primaries are important. But seeing as it's now a Biden vs Trump, voting is pointless. Also, I don't vibe with the rationale for not voting third party. If everybody just votes for whomever they please and most align with, without having to please a political argument saying that a third-party vote is a waste of a vote, then yeah maybe a third party might win.
  But in America there's this weird mind worm of "oh, the two party system is broken! Let's vote into it because voting third party is a waste of a vote." Suddenly everyone becomes a game theory expert come election day >_<

Yo you kids can't behave, I will look this now, it's Easter and I don't want to have this burning here

Well, it's fine as long as you're not voting for one of the genocidal candidates.

I like Biden and Harris and agree. They are the better choice by a wide margin. They've accomplished more in 3 years than decades worth of predecessors combined. Outstanding, really.

I worry what will happen if Trump wins or loses. If he wins, it will be terrible. If he loses, he will claim he won again and he will try another insurrection, but harder.
- I worry that die hard moderates will throw the election for trump by failing to support policy that will convince apathetic voters to show up.
  
  "die hard moderates" should be an oxymoron....
  But I think there is Republican&Russian troll&bot farms encouraging these people to not vote or vote third party.
  If Trump loses again, I don't think he'll accept it this time either.
  It's mad the US is so mess up. Some of this is extern meddling, but a lot is just built in. The US need to realize it isn't the best structured democracy at all. Only two parties and open bribery is shockingly bad.

If I am an American voting in the election I wouldn't have voted for either Hillary or Trump in 2016 but I will definitely vote for Biden then and now.
Hillary is full of baggage which is too many to ignore. Trump, in my view at the time, isn't a fascist but a fascist-adjacent and I thought his presence sets a dangerous precedence. After the first four years, that proved correct. He became drunk with power and became a full blown fascist.
Biden definitely is a better choice in any elections against Trump. He has less baggage and still did surprisingly well that is favourable with the left.

So! Much!! This!!!
- I agree with you but can we please leave "This!" behind us?
  
  Point taken. Reddit habits die hard.

I've still never seen or heard of any leftists who won't vote in the generals. It's like ya'll are screaming fire because you saw the mist which was the noncommitted votes in the DNC Primary.
- I take it you haven't read any of the other comments in this thread, then.
  Or any of the comments on the post this post is an edit of.
  
  That is fair I read a few comments after I posted mine. None of them said specifically that they won't vote for Biden but they definitely don't seem enthusiastic to do so.
  One of them made a distinction between leftist and liberal, though, which makes me think it's just another CCP Hexbear cuck trying to blend in.
- It is extra absurd, because they seem to care enough to scream at disaffected voters, but not enough to scream at the democratic establishment for not taking drastic action to win over disaffected voters.

I understand their frustrations given how Biden was brazenly treating Israel until lately (almost like he realized there was an election going on).

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