Are we the baddies?
Are we the baddies?
194 comments
-
I like how some people are claiming americans are aware of this lol
If most americans were sufficiently aware and organizing against it accordingly (if they're not organizing, they're not aware enough) the imperialist gov would already have been toppled.
-
Some zoomers and some millennials know it. Boomers don't know or actually think it's a good thing, with some rare exceptions.
Either way your take is extremely juvenile and simplistic. There's a lot more at play with revolutions than people knowing their country did something bad. It takes a lot more than that to get people off their ass, with very few exceptions historically, and even those exceptions are usually led by rich people looking out for themselves.
People need to have their own livelihoods threatened before they do anything. And there are always power systems in place that deliberately make it hard for people to organize.
-
Power. Your fantasy assumes the weight of mere knowing outweighs the power wielded against the citizenry. No revolution started with the whole citizenry waking up. You know why. If not, read more and be less disingenuous.
-
No revolution started with the whole citizenry waking up
Obviously not everyone lmao.
What every revolution has had is people informing others about what the issue is (often by pamphlets, news, etc), what needs to be done, and organizing. The vast majority of successful revolutions are only those that had organized revolutionaries.
-
-
-
America is everthing Americans claim China and Russia to be.
-
I've always thought that if you switch America and Russia/China in most events, it would better fit the narratives.
For example:
America brokered peace between Iran and Saudi Arabia.
America opened up factories in Afghanistan to provide jobs for the locals who are recovering from a war with China.
America is supporting their ally in Syria and combating terrorists supported by Russia.
Russia went to war with Iraq and killed a million people and destroyed all their infrastructure.
The incarceration rate in China is the highest in the world.
China accused America of spying on them with a weather balloon.
Russia overthrew the Libyan government, spiraling the wealthiest African country into a civil war.
Like seriously, switch the stories around and it better fits the narrative we're constantly being fed. With the view that libs have of Russia, China and America, events would literally have to play out like this if their view was correct.
-
Russia is killing people and destroying infrastructure, though. Do you not mind it happening if it's in Ukraine?
-
America is an endless expansionist that has illegally invaded multiple neighbours by force while calling it a "military exercise".
America has a semi dictator that gave themselves full unlimited power after being elected once and has since then meddled in every election in order to win
Hmm, not really
-
-
-
-
Huh? Pretty sure Guantanamo Bay is still open to this day. Not on the same scale nowadays, sure; but the CCP never claimed freedom as part of its core values either.
-
-
It's an international poker game and everyone is cheating. To see politics through a campist lens helps no one.
-
Acknowledging that the US has been the leader of the imperial core — the countries that have been colonizing the rest of the world for 500 years now — since WW2 is the realistic, materialist view.
Only difference now is that it's changed form to mainly the economic subjugation (neocolonialism) of "former" colonies through unequal exchange under capitalism rather than direct military subjugation — though the US still has a major actual settler colony committing a genocide in Palestine right now.
Any country that tries to escape this system (by nationalizing its resources to prevent extraction by unequal exchange, usually by establishing a socialist state) is sanctioned (DPRK, Vietnam in the past, Zimbabwe etc), embargoed (Cuba), overthrown (Chile, Burkina Faso etc), or invaded (Vietnam, Libya, Korea, etc).
-
-
-
-
It's a not uncommon theme in anime: some large imperialist/war nation or one associated with fire or occupying Japan.
It's also worth noting that Japan had a history of imperialism and occupied a significant portion of the world around them not too long ago.
Japan has a pretty similar world view to us. I don't know a lot about Japanese culture, but I think a lot of its similarities contribute to anime's popularity in the US. We both have pretty rigid class structures, appreciate violence and capitalism and are enamored with technology.
I know that Avatar is American, perhaps I just wanted to air out a pet theory, however I think it's good for us to explore some of these assumptions with art and stories.
I think most of us aren't the baddies though.
-
To be fair Not all fire nation citizens are bad either
Usually when there's a imperialistic government it's very rarely every citizens fault
-
A comforting/not comforting thought
I sort of believe that the vast majority of whoever from wherever would happily get along, but we still have wars.
-
-
Japan has a similar worldview to Americans because there's been multiple points in history where we brute forced our ways on them, conveniently at times where their old ways were losing faith.
Forcing Japans borders open while they remained isolated with outdated weaponry, and the end of WW2.
Capitalism was drilled into their culture until it's teeth sunk in and they had their economic boom.
-
Japan went from feudalism to an emerging modern industrialized state in what, 40 years? Industrial Revolution speedrun.
-
-
The irony of a diverse set of people from around the world talking about an American cartoon and in the same breath saying that American only knows war is not lost on me
The US cultural victory'd so hard that it's hard to recognize it sometimes
-
Avatar is American, but it had fantastic cultural consultants.
-
Yeah the fire nation has way more similarities to Imperial Japan than anyone else. Island nation industrializes before their neighbours and just starts taking over. Style of dress, the archesticure, the names of the characters, all give a Japan vibe way more than an American vibe. But maybe drinking tea in a ceremonial fashion is something that's part of American culture that I wasn't aware of.
But currently the US is protecting global trade from pirates and sending weapons to democracies defending themselves from authoritarian psychopaths, which to some people is exactly how the Fire Nation behaved in Avatar I guess.
-
-
I disagree. Most Americans know we are the fire nation/empire from Star Wars.
Well at least most people I know.
-
You forgot the important part
"And they're proud of it"
It's crazy how military families are so into being in the military, out how proud they are of being Marines, etc. They're literally doing the governments dirty work.
-
I thought the Empire in Star Wars was supposed to be Third Reich Germany. They literally both have "stormtroopers."
-
Most people you know seem a lot more aware than the average American in my experience
-
I think we're more like the Alliance from Firefly.
Most people are just trying to go about their day-to-day, and the war and major imperialism was done a long time ago. Now there are a few in the government who keep doing evil shit, but for the most part it's a big useless bureaucracy.
-
So...sure we are the baddies, but it's OK because America?
-
Yes, that is the justification most Americans use; western chauvinism tells them that no matter how bad they are, the other places are worse. How many times on Lemmy do you see people say "America bad, but China or Russia or Iran would be worse (therefore we're justified in facilitating massive bloodshed)?"
-
No, not okay. The monkey puppet reaction.
We are not shocked to learn we are the bad guys. I never said it’s okay, I just disagree with the reaction meme to indicate we didn’t know it.
Not sure where you pulled “it’s okay because America” from my statement but no need to jump to conclusions and put words in peoples mouth.
-
-
Surprised it's taken this long for people to grasp it.
We control the world's reserve currency, and hold the ability to fry any country's economy via economic sanctions whenever we want. We have the largest military in the world and that military is set up for the purpose of invasion. Yeah, China has a massive navy, but their ships are tiny, most likely for the purpose of defending their oceans and eventually taking Taiwan. We on the other hand have more carrier ships than anyone else, all for the purpose of being able to flex our might on anyone in the world.
People used to say that we attempted to police the world. I don't hear it nearly as much anymore, but it's accurate. We throw our weight around. We're the world's bully.
-
Yes, and to large extent NATO countries love to join in on the bullying. Britain and Australia jumped right in with the Iraq invasion for example.
-
-
Reminder that the empire from Star Wars is a stand-in for the US, while the rebels represent the Viet Cong.
US military playing 'The Imperial March' from Star Wars on a loudspeaker while heading to Gaza
-
And most of this critique of empire is completely lost in Legend of Korra. A show that does nothing to reconcile the past with the present. Instead it preaches literal horseshoe theory as the over arching message of the show.
"what did Amon want? Equality for all. Unalaq? He brought back the spirits. And Zaheer believed in freedom. [...] The problem was, those guys were totally out of balance and they took their ideologies too far. " - Toph, EP 43, "The Calling"
Each of these villains, including the final one, Kuvira, represent a kind of ideological boogie man.
- Amon is the minority rights Boogie Man, he espoused the ideals of equality. One could interpret him as the white genocide boogie man but there is little evidence of any kind of true class division between bender's and non-benders. A shallow caricature at best.
- Unalaq was the religion or spirituality boogie man, or could be interpreted as the "return to tradition" boogie man.
- Zaheer is the anarchist boogie man.
- Kuvira is the totalitarian dictator aka Communist boogie man.
At no point in the show does Korra have to struggle against any of these ideas and combat them in any ideological way. They are all metaphorical punching bags. Each of them "to extreme" to allow to exist. Each contrasted against each other as though they were equals.
Republic City stands at the center of the show as the only constant and good political organization. A representative democracy. Tied explicitly to Aang to drive the point home, if you had any doubt's about its goodness. A stand in for America with its own statue of liberty.
In the end, the heir to the Earth Kingdom Monarchy gives up his throne to install a representative democracy in the Earth Kingdom. The result of this shallow attempt at writing leaves the shows saying almost nothing at all. It's as if it was written to tell 13 year olds that their anarchist or communist curiosities are misguided and simply a phase.
-
The whole overarching theme of the two series is totally different.
ATLA is about restoring peace from an objectively big-bad. It’s a story of perseverance and self-improvement. And it’s about recognizing and correcting mistakes…Aang, in saving the world after he abandoned it; and Zuko’s entire story arc.
Contrast that with Korra (which Nick studios really messed up). There was not supposed to be more than one season, initially. And they ruined the last season (or two, I think) by rushing it out as an online exclusive.
If you have to pick a theme for Korra, though, it’s about balance and nuance. None of the big bads are objectively totally bad. They all have redeeming factors and all of them, you could say, are somewhat right. But, as you said, they go too far.
Even towards the end as Korra has the mercury poisoning and PTSD and depression, it’s about inner balance and harmony. Honestly, mental health is a huge topic for a kids show to try to tackle, and they did it wonderfully.
-
false, most amerikkkans will not have the self-awareness to feel bad about it
-
"Wow, the Fire Nation is just like the latest country the news told me to hate, good thing America's around to Share Our Greatness™️with them!"
-
-
Fox news calling the US an empire is not new. How old do you all think the moniker "Empire State" is? It's wild how it's in our language but we just don't think about it.
-
Don't you think there are better, more recent examples of this?
(Oh, I missed the instance I was on lol)
-
Big nation go ooga fuck around n find out; hamburgerland munition go boom
-
Anybody know where I can get the Mandarin dub of the original cartoon?
-
Most Americans are too dumb to realize the allegory in ATLA.
-
There are a lot of assholish nations that could easily take that place, but imo there are enough references to Dalai lama in the show to assume that the fire nation is china
-
The earth nation exists with a whole theme about being the great stagnant central state empire getting overshadowed by an upstart nation going through industrial revolution first doesn't give you any hints? Not even the queues and qibao?
-
-
greatness and freedom™
-
I think the only war we tried to show our military might "greatness" was the Gulf War. It did establish America as a coalition force to the world.
I think the meme is accurate to people who once supported the war in Iraq. I don't think it reflects people that opposed it or, people who have since changed their views on it.
-
Basically every war we did during the Cold War was about "sharing" the greatness of capitalism over communism, too. We're still pretending our embargo against Cuba is just for the same dumb reason.
-
And WW2.
-
-
Uneducated fuckwits thinking the u.s invented war.
-
"Oh my god you shot me, I'm going to die, but I don't blame you because you didn't invent the gun"
-
194 comments