It's the same fake argument every time they try to take away your rights
It's the same fake argument every time they try to take away your rights
163 留言
-
Man people really set up the strawmen here. Congress has literally said it’s about foreign influence, not about protecting children. It has absolutely nothing to do with kids. It has to do with China influencing the citizens of the United States to do things that are beneficial to China, against the interests of the US government.
It’s not a ban, if China gives up control of the app to a United States entity then there’s no problem. It has absolutely nothing to do with protecting children.
-
Congress has literally said it’s about foreign influence
Which is also a lie. The likes of Twitter, Facebook and Google are just as beholden to foreign governments such as the fascist regimes of India, Israel, Myanmar and others. They pay the people in Congress a lot more in legal bribes, though, so they can basically get away with anything.
It’s not a ban, if China gives up control of the app to a United States entity then there’s no problem.
Imagine the uproar if China demanded that Google stopped being a US military contractor..
What the whole thing is about is empty symbolic rhetoric and xenophobia in an election year and oppressive measures to go with it.
-
Google was blocked in China in 2014 for refusing to censor search results. Now search results are censored and must go through their Hong Kong subsiduary. The last part is what the US Government is asking for TikTok to do right?
China already bans and censors loads of apps and websites already so I don't think looking at what they do in this instance is a good idea.
-
Imagine the uproar if China demanded that Google stopped being a US military contractor.
China is actively demanding that all Chinese companies excise American hardware and software from their technology stacks. They know that they can’t divorce a US tech company headquartered in the US from the US intelligence agencies, so it is the next best option. This is colloquially known in China as “Delete A” or “Delete America”. Who is being xenophobic again?
-
-
Who are they worried China is going to influence? Children, right? If it's adults, that's almost more insulting, they think we don't deserve to be able to see all sides of an argument and are too stupid to discern fact from fiction. We may as well dispense with free expression entirely at that point because the government can just say "you're too stupid to read this and we're worried you'll be influenced, so you can only read the books we've pre-approved for you"
It is every American's right to think freely, to speak those thoughts to others, and to have others have the opportunity to hear those thoughts whether or not they are "good influences" according to govt. It is wild how easily people are willing to throw that right away for fears of "foreign influence". What's next, banning TV shows from foreign countries because they might "corrupt our culture"? Banning books with subversive topics because they will "give people bad ideas"?. This is how the road to fascism begins.
-
Who are they worried China is going to influence? Children, right? If it's adults, that's almost more insulting, they think we don't deserve to be able to see all sides of an argument and are too stupid to discern fact from fiction.
Yeah fam, you and me are definitely way too smart to ever be manipulated by military units whose sole job is to effectively manipulate large swaths of the population.
The answer is everyone. They’re worried about anyone and everyone, because they do it also.
-
-
-
"What about the people on epsteins list" is gotta be the most generic strawman.
-
Cna you believe that they haven't arrested every single person who ever made social contact with epstein and arrested them for rape, despite a lack of any supporting evidence that they committed a crime?
-
I mean i am sure that rich people get away with lots of stuff that normal people wont. But this whole "pedophile elite" thing smells very similar to the "elite jews control everything" and is simplistic bs at best. I am not even sure what people are on about. I would be happy if we finally fought for more equality and better distrubution of wealth but that seems "too simple" to most or something.
-
Can you believe no other single person has been arrested?
Can you believe Ghislaine was only convicted of supplying girls to a dead man so that no-one else need be prosecuted.
-
Virginia Giuffre, Prince Andrew’s accuser, disagrees.
-
-
-
Let's ban TikTok while our kids are dying because of guns. It's like they're doing everything they can to lose an election.
-
Holy shit America is crazy. How do you get to the point where more kids are dying of guns than cars in a country with too many cars. And why has poisoning gone up so much?
-
When you actually do the calculations... Even just taking a rough "6 kids per 100,000" killed with firearms, doesn't sound too bad no?
That's about 20,000 KIDS killed per year
TWENTY FUCKIN THOUSAND
Christ on a bike
-
And giant cats it seems.
Also wtf is going on with drugs since 2019. Is this all fentanyl?
-
You betcha
-
Well, it ain’t the marijuana that still hasn’t been decriminalized.
-
-
I dunno - don't underestimate just how jaw-dropping shockingly unintelligent many of them are.
-
The only way to stop a bad Tik Tok, is a good Tik Tok with a gun.
-
Let’s ban TikTok while our kids are dying because of guns.
TBF... That spike in "poisoning" could easily be attributed to dumb shit like the "tide pod" challenge.
-
Lol. Without looking up anything I can tell you not more than 50 kids have died from laundry detergent digestion in the last 5 years. I'd love to be proven wrong about this. And even among those some will be actual accidents since children ate detergents long before TikTok. That spike in poisoning is probably due to fentanyl since this data includes people younger than 19. Drug use has increased a lot in teenagers in the last few years. So stop antagonizing a fucking app to support censorship and start seeing the real problems out there.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2790949
"New data show relatively low use of illicit substances, yet overdose death rates among teens have risen in recent years"
-
-
-
The way .ml cries everyday about TikTok being banned you'd think it was an actual real life crises for all of you.
Multiple counties have already banned the app (as well as other ccp government apps) years before the US started trying to. Where was all the out cry then?
-
can't find any western countries that have it banned for the general public
-
.ee users and simping for every lib policy. Name a better combo.
-
Dune 2 on mushrooms?
-
-
-
What in the tankie fuck am i reading
-
They aren't wrong though. Every time they want to screw with us they trot out the children. From gun control to banning transgender care.
-
Lemmy being lemmy.
-
You can take the Redditor out of Reddit but not the Reddit out of the Redditor, it would seem.
-
-
-
Fuck TikTok, but I’m sick of hearing “BUT THE KIDS!!!” As an excuse for constantly trampling everyone’s freedoms
-
The fact that we have to baby proof the internet because someone is too lazy to do basic parenting is crazy
-
-
Because it's not a list of rapists, just a list of people Epstein was interested in having influential control over.
...and even going to the Island just meant he was trying to influence you. He was looking for whatever leverage he could find over people.
-
The list of rapists certainly exists
Court papers said that alongside photos were compact discs with handwritten labels including: “‘Young [Name] + [Name],’
-
Agreed. Its a list. Anyone can make a list of people. They can even put people they've never met on the list.
I can make a list, put your name on it, label "bad people" and leave it for the FBI to find. Does that prove you're bad?
For those who have truley committed the crimes suggested by the "list", I vote for a beheading (not the one attached to the neck).
-
When was the last time Tik Tok was accused of rape?
Virginia Giuffre: What we know about Prince Andrew's accuser
-
-
If the "protect children" politician does nothing about school shootings, you know they're a PoS.
-
But Black Dynamite, we're on Epstein's list.
-
🎵DYNAMITE DYNAMITE🎵
-
-
How is this itself not a fake argument?
The arguments in support of tick-tock are a bizarre amalgamation of just about every category of bad faith argument. I haven't seen one that suggests tick-tock it's actually a net benefit.
-
it's not that tiktok is good, it's that banning it sets a bad precedent and will be used to justify further control and censorship of the internet
-
That's a much better argument than what's presented in this meme. There's at least an argument to claim that the difference is about curtailing foreign interest through ownership. Ownership does heavily influence a platform. Unfortunately that hasn't prevented Murdock from owning more formal messaging platforms.
On a side note, how do you feel about a handful of corporations controlling and censoring the Internet?
-
-
The net benefit is that people enjoy it.
If there was some negative that outweighed that you'd think the bill would be banning that practice but the thing they don't like is its partially owned by Chinese companies so they're just trying to force it to be sold so it can cobtinye to operate in the exact same way but just for the benefit of an American billionaire instead.
-
Ok, I agree there's a reasonable argument in there.
On the one side of the scale is people enjoy it. Maybe that's enough. I feel similarly about drug policies (that is, people want to use it, consequences are on them, not something that should be forced on them by the state).
I also think it's legitimate to say if there's a problem, policy should reflect that problem. The idea that it's about protecting American money is probably fair too. But those aren't really arguments in support of tick-tock. Those are arguments that others should be included if there's legislation. I would love to see something passed that actually protected privacy universally. A hope for constitutional protection there was one of the casualties of the Roe v Wade overturn.
Last thing... a nation protecting it's interests is pretty legit in terms of legislative justification. One country protecting it's industry is very common and something both countries in question do all the time. Protecting from foreign interference is a pretty standard requisite for sovereignty. If you want to criticize US for not respecting others, I think you've got plenty of evidence. That's still different than saying a county shouldn't take steps to protect themselves.
-
Cocaine is something that people enjoy, same with driving drunk or drinking while pregnant. Enjoyment shouldn't factor into any policy related discussions/ decisions.
I'm not arguing for or against the app, I do not use it. Enjoyment shouldn't affect policy.
-
-
Net benefit to whom? And by what metric? And who gets to apply said metric?
-
Whataboutism is a form of informal fallacy.
-
Whataboutism means nothing at this point. Risk analysis? Whataboutism. Considering consequences? Whataboutism.
"Informal" means it's not actually a fallacy. Prooooobably because people use it way outside of its definition to dismiss arguments they don't like because they have not thought through whatever they are arguing about.
-
-
-
This is fucking removed
-
I may have missed something in civics class, but since when is access to a crappy social media site a right?
-
Since when is reading newspapers your government doesn't agree with a right? Since when is communicating with people your government doesn't like a right? Since when is publishing whatever you want a right? Since approximately 1776. It's such an important right that it's literally the first one in the constitution. Because our ability to speak freely and criticize the government is one of the rights that underpins all others. The medium shouldn't matter, speech is speech whether it's an app, website, chat server, newspaper, bulletin board, code, painting, drawing, whatever. If the government can just shut down any medium or venue they don't like because "it's propaganda", that basically closes the door to any open criticism of the government.
We've tried not having those rights for the sake of convenience, expediency, or social pleasantness. Tends to not end well. Ask people in Russia or Iran how that "government gets to dictate where and how you speak" thing is going for them. Insane bootlicking going on in this thread.
-
I mean I’m not saying that this is being gone about the right way or for the right reasons, but when an adversarial nation-state is working to undermine US economic interests within its borders is there really anything wrong with punching back? I personally don’t think so, but I’m fully aware that I’m probably in the minority on this here.
https://twitter.com/lizalinwsj/status/1765615508357779477
(paywalled article from author above https://www.wsj.com/world/china/china-technology-software-delete-america-2b8ea89f)
-
-
That slope is very slippery.
-
-
The "for the children" arguments are almost always misleading.
Don't get me wrong, there's stuff that's genuinely "for the children", but the vast majority of the time they're doing something for the children it's not.
Bluntly, the core of the argument for a lot of the online stuff for the children is reported as protecting them against would be child molestation or dangers of some similar variety. In tiktok's case, here's a platform that has huge potential for revenue due to its popularity, and has an established user base. I'm certain that many of the so-called upper class/elites/capitalist pigs/owners of the country, are salivating at the prospect of getting a piece of that. It was said, in the open discussion for the bill to ban tiktok, that they want to "make" tiktok "better". Not better for the people using it, better for the people who could profit from it. Several of these shit heads have already, formally and publicly stated that they have an interest in acquiring the platform, because the bill says: tiktok will be banned unless it sells to an American owner. So the only way for tiktok to operate in America after the bill is passed, is for them to buy it.
The legislation isn't for the children. The legislation is the people who actually hold power, making the government do a thing so they can reap the rewards.
They want to profit off of the children. Because mind raping them at a young age into a life of consumerism and spending, while earning money for that privilege, is a capitalists wet dream.
-
It's because Epstein's island is a honeypot
</tinfoil-hat>
-
A honeypot trap that's never used as a trap is just free honey.
-
Of course the island was a honeypot trap. How else did Epstein create all his compact discs with handwritten labels including: “‘Young [Name] + [Name],’
-
-
-
American political posts and the comments never fail to disappoint me.
-
"Can you do something so that any given incel can't shoot 30 of us while we hide under our desk." - kids
"Literally go fuck yourself also no tik tok because it could be dangerous." - government
-
Relax nobody is taking away your TikToks
-
-
it would be one thing if they were actually going to ban it, but the plan is pretty plainly for deep state establishment to seize it so that the US government can do all the awful things that they're accusing the Chinese government of doing. Remember y'all, the difference between information and propaganda is "Do I like the person who is currently speaking?" and nothing more.
-
If it truly was a "free speech platform" the ownership wouldn't matter either way, right?
-
swing and a miss
the point is that they're trying to pretend they're protecting us from propaganda by seizing the propaganda platform and operating it themselves. you don't trust the CCP and neither do I. Let's take that as read. do you trust the US government? if this is dangerous, why not shut it down? hell, why not go a step further and make it illegal for anyone to do?
-
-
-
TikTok isn’t your “right”, and if you say that banning tiktok is talking away your rights, TikTok’s taking away people’s lives
-
Lemmy is mostly children isn't it
-
This place is not only for people wanting to get away from Reddit because of their poor policies. This apparently is also a place for people who got away from reddit because they have shitty opinions that weren't tolerated even there.
-
-
- Are different, unrelated things
- Involve different parts of government
- Involve different people in charge
- Is smoothbrain understanding of criminal investigations
- Is smoothbrain understanding of due process
I'm starting to fly down some 'conspiracy hole' about this shit: I can't trust or even hope that the avalanche of memes like these aren't Chinese (or Russian? they love stirring our shit up for the lulz) in origin. This paranoia reinforces itself in a loop
163 留言