What are Some Good, Recent, and Available Dumb Cars?
I have a 2010 Toyota Corolla. She's been my trusty steed for the last 14 years and is in good working order. I recognize she won't last forever, and if, god forbid (mostly for her) I get in an accident, I will need to get a new car. So what dumb cars do you drive, and what would you replace them with?
I recommend a 2010 Toyota Corolla.
Are you my doppelganger? Lol
I was just pointing out the car OP already had, which isn't far off from the newest "dumb cars" you can get.
He's asking what he can switch to that's even newer than 2010, while all my cars (that I have no intention of ever replacing due to age) are already 5-15 years older than his.
Proud owner of a 2009 Toyota Corolla. That thing is a workhorse.
If you don't live in that one country where they get stolen easily, Hyundai I10 and I20 base models are the perfect dumb car
Absolutely nothing to go wrong; the most technological thing on them is a Bluetooth stereo, and the little 1.25L motor only needs an oil change every 20k kilometres to keep it sweet
Unfortunately we don't get those in the US, and they even stopped selling the i30 (Elantra GT) here in 2020. You can fortunately still get the Elantra sedan, but the hatchback definitely adds a ton of practicality to it.
When you say dumb, do you mean like with minimal computers? I think I remember reading about Mercedes or something working on a vehicle that's entirely mechanical with zero computer integration. I imagine it would be pretty expensive though
No way. Anyone have a link? Its gotta at least have electronic fuel injection. A 2025 Benz with a carburetor and old school distributor is not believable.
Mechanical injection diesels could work with no digital computer, but getting one through modern emissions tests in any countries with half a standard should be impossible.
For that, they'd have to develop an entirely new engine, which they then couldn't sell in Europe, America, Australia or most of Asia due to emissions regulations. So maybe they're doing it, but it will be a one-off prestige project at the end of the internal combustion engine age, and all of them will be put in museums or private collections.
Maybe there’s just reusing an old OM601/602 from the 80s like diesel swappers are into.
I would prefer something old enough it wouldn't even have a backup camera
Why? I wouldn't go without a backup camera. It only takes one time for a small child running after a ball to slip your eye and you've got blood on your hands. When a driver gets behind the wheel, they are barely in control of a multi-ton murder machine. A backup camera is a very easy-to-use tool to keep the murder machine under control.
They became required because a dad backed over and killed his own son. That father fought for years to make them required so no one would have to go through the same pain he went through. Why would you not want one? You could not look at it if you don't like it. But it's one of the best possible safety features imo, and it's dirt cheap compared to the cost of a car.
Does it have no ABS, or VSC or traction control? That sounds like it's only for enthusiasts, because the average driver is gonna crash (including me). Or is there a mechanic implementation for those?
Many Toyotas. Even their newest series LandCruiser is doing well and will continue the legacy of doing well because durable mechanical simplicity is what it brings to the competitive table.
A lot of Toyotas last a long time and are easy to work on. That in turn makes them popular, making parts for them even cheaper.
Honestly? Consider grabbing another Corolla if you liked your Corolla. The Toyota price tag pays itself off in longevity and low ongoing cost. They just don't die and do their job well for a long time.
Honestly? Consider grabbing another Corolla if you liked your Corolla
Agreed. My 2020 corolla has very little of the digital bells and whistles that are increasingly getting in the way of things "just working" in the driving experience.
Still, more than I'd like, but much less than any other vehicle I've driven in the last 10 years.
And, as far as I can tell, it doesn't have any way of "phoning home" to tell the corporate overlords if I'm doing something they don't approve of.
I can't quote it offhand, but I know I've read an article recently about corporations phoning home and I believe Toyota was on the list. I'll see if I can dig it up.
That said, I agree about the Toyotas. Even if they DO phone home and we have to deal with that crap, they're bulletproof and deserve their reputation.
Edit: guess I never ended up reading the whole article, but it was Mozilla. Hopefully this helps: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-car-brand-reviewed-by-mozilla-including-ford-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/
Agreed. My 2011 Toyota Auris hybrid is still chuntering along with minimal issues. A friend got a new car recently and its electronic horrorshow puts me right off giving up my dumb old car.
I've read through your comments, and honestly, you're just going to want to buy an old civic or another Corolla, and if you need to, swap in a new engine. You really have to choose working on an old car to keep it running, or live with even the basic standard safety features like a backup camera. Keep in mind that the new lane assist or collision avoidance stuff can be turned off in virtually all new cars. Plenty of new cars don't have an obnoxious infotainment screen as well.
Plenty of new cars don’t have an obnoxious infotainment screen as well.
maybe list them for OP instead of hinting at their existence.
Keep in mind that the new lane assist or collision avoidance stuff can be turned off in virtually all new cars.
Manufacturers are making this more and more difficult to control by the user.
Toyota all day every day. The best, most reliable car brand.
One rule of thumb; Never buy a Chevy. Absolute garbage vehicles that you will pay endless money to maintain.
Honda is a close second, I almost got the GR Corrola but my Integra has so much more space inside. I guess it makes sense seeing it's almost the size of an accord.
Toyota has a subscription service for remote start. https://support.toyota.com/s/article/Does-Toyota-Remote-Co-10227
Chevy trucks are good
Maybe, but their cars are pure shit
"Dumb car" is kind of relative. Computer engine controls have been around since the mid 1970's. And while the first ones were not very good, they have become pretty darned reliable over the intervening years. And as someone who has owned cars and other heavy equipment with mechanical points and down draft and up draft carburetors, you won't ever see me willingly own a car with any of that anymore.
If you really want to minimize the electronics as much as possible, look at 1990's to no later than 2010 models.
Though to be fair, much of the problems with cars are caused by the accessories like power windows, door locks, air conditioning, and power seats. Those are far more problematic than the basic car itself.
I think they mean all the newer techno crap that cars have like touch screens and the like not power windows, AC and engine related stuff thats been around for decades. And I agree with that. I want a car that has the basics and yeet the touch screens and other garbage no one asked for but it seems theres not really any choice anymore.
Those touch screens are all a part of the accessories. And I dislike them intensely also. I also find it very disheartening that in some new cars a software up date is needed to make the dock locks work. A friend had to take his mother's Kia in to rematch the door locks to a new key. They needed to remove the door handles and plug them into a computer to do so.
The last new car I bought, (2015 Jeep Patriot), made me search EVERY car dealer in 2 states before I found one that had manual door locks and manual windows. I often haul dogs around with me and while they are quite good at locking doors and rolling up windows, they really, really suck at rolling them down or unlocking the doors. It took me a couple of months of weekly searching to finally find one for sale.
I think this thread just goes to show that 'modern technology crap' is relative. For some, adaptive cruise control is modern technology crap, for others, electronic fuel injection is modern technology crap. I recall when power windows were thought to be crap, because when the switch breaks, you can't open the window any more. It's the same with any new tech.
When people refer to “smart” vs “dumb” cars, I don’t think they’re referring to the ECU. They’re referring to internet connected vs non-internet connected cars, in which internet connectivity is still a fairly recent development.
I daily drive a vehicle with a factory tape deck and CD changer, where all the electronics work flawlessly, from the sunroof to the back window rolling down. My wife wants me to ditch it, but they’re going to have to pry the keys out of my cold, dead hands.
Can you clarify exactly what you mean by a "dumb car"? Do you just mean that it doesn't have a screen in the cockpit? Or something else?
Internet connected (smart) or non-internet connected (dumb). At least that’s what this phrase means with all other context.
Understood, but OP mentioned that he wanted something without a backup camera, so that's why I was asking for clarification.
Not OP, but my most recent car is a 2016 Hyundai Accent, and I think it's perfect. The doors and ignition operate with physical keys, the displays are all physical indicators directly behind the wheel, all the controls have tactile, physical buttons instead of a touchscreen, no infotainment system, and no subscription options.
I don't think I'd ever want a car more "smart" than that, but I'm not sure such a thing even exists anymore.
My 2016 Audi A3 is also very analog/dumb and it's perfect. Physical controls for everything, seemingly no privacy concerns, and I easily added a module for Android Auto/Apple Car play to it.
For about ten years prior to 2020, I only had a company car. I've gone the past four without a car but I'm looking around for something to make it easier to visit family and take short trips.
Not only is the cost of a new car mindmelting, all the crap they put in them now is detrimental to me considering anything made in the past few years. I would sooner opt for a car with roll down windows and an AM radio than have to drive down the street with a giant computer screen shining in my face pinging me with all sorts of distractions. And that's coming from someone who spent over ten years installing car stereos and remote starts, etc.
I don't know what to do either. I'm looking at cars made around 2010-2015. I'd probably drive less than 2,000 miles a year but I'd still worry about wasting money on something that isn't going to last me at least ten years. I also have a thing for cars that feel good to drive, typically German cars, so these cheap little Hyundais and such probably aren't something I'd consider.
for less than 2000 miles a year its likely better to just rent?
Like Enterprise? I've looked into this. First, the demand goes up / supply goes down when everyone without a car wants to rent a car for the holidays. Second, there's only one facility anywhere near me. Third, they have limited hours when you can pick up and drop off making it unreasonably difficult (only open til 12 on Saturdays, closed Sundays).
I also looked into car sharing. I forget the name of the service but I've spoken with people who have rented out their cars for it. It's a scam. People have had thousands of dollars withdrawn from their bank accounts for minor body damage without warning and without evidence that they were responsible.
Gonna catch some flak for this, but a Ford Focus... Just get the manual transmission. That car will easily go 200k miles, and all the bad press about the automatic has pushed the price down. My friend has the manual version and it's about as bulletproof as you can get.
2018 Subaru Forester
It might be a bit more updated than most, but in general less smart than most cars today.
By my own assessment, it's the dumbest modern car you can get.
n assessment, it’s the dumbest modern car you can
Onstar tracks your driving habits and reports the data to insurers, even if you do not have Onstar actrivated.
I’m assuming US?
One thing to note is that the US started requiring back up cameras in all cars manufactured after May 1, 2018. Your best bet to find a dumb car would be to look at base trims of some cheap 2015, 2016, and 2017 cars. Cars like the Elantra, Forte, Sonata, Altima, Versa, and Sentra did not have touchscreen displays in their base trim. I know because I basically lived in rental cars during those years and am very familiar with all of them.
Now, definitely watch out on the Korean ones though due their cheapening out of security equipment…but the Kia Boyz have probably salvaged titled all of them by now. I would also be hesitant on buying a used car with a CVT because it’s a crapshoot if the previous owners actually kept up with the mandatory maintenance on them.
I think the Mazda 3 or Toyota iA are good used car choices to keep on your radar. There is a “screen” in both cars, but they are dialed controlled when the car is in motion. They both have a REAL automatic transmission too. No CVT stuff to worry about.
Get something similar but cheaper. Those things spend decades in the sands and humid cimates and they're still rolling around. That Toyota will probably outlive you and your kids if you treat it well.
They're like those Diesel powered Mercedes from the 90s but much cheaper and easier to fix.
And not as good
That's personal preference tbh. I'd pick a shit box I can fix in an evening if it ever needs it to a finicky machine that requires years of antiquated experience to work on. I never wanna touch a mechanical fuel injector or have to take half the car apart to change a pulley.
Then again I own a modern Honda with a turbo snaked through the engine bay.
I'm rocking a 1998 Toyota 4runner and when she dies I'll replace her with another one
Is 2002 recent? Still loving my vintage wrx.
When the wheels fall off I'd like to go with something electric, but those tend to be phones with wheels. Maybe a used volt?
Technically? It's 3 years off from antique.
Hey if it still runs and they were readily available. In terms of recent I was talking newer than my car, old enough not to have a computer system or backup lights.
Every car you could buy in the past 20 (probably 30) years had a computer system, because you can't meet emissions regulations without fuel injection.
In Europe, the Dacia Sandero base model is a car that literally only comes with what's needed to drive or mandated by law.
The previous generation was still available with wind-up windows, no power steering and no radio.
I don't know about any offerings in the US market.
I have a 2015 Dacia Logan, that's just smart enough (can connect to Bluetooth).
My wife has driven both her Hyundai Accent (2012), and her Kia Forte (2011) for 300k miles. Technically I think they're the exact same car. Transmissions have never given us a problem, but we change the fluid in them religiously at 50k miles; and oil every 10k.
Occasionally we'll have to change a battery, alternator, or coil-pack, but other than that they've been great.
Buy another Toyota no newer than 2013 and you'll be good.
The new corollas are just as good.
Toyota has lost its way, using their "smart" cars to lock people out of features that they don't subscribe to.
I recommend people avoid them.
Your best bet would be to go for something used in good condition before 2014 that's when cars started being internet connected and having controls being software buttons in screens and the like. If you have a bunch of money you could try to import something but the 25 year rule is an issue if you live in the US
I was going to cut off at 2014 as well. I have a manul transmission '14 Subaru and even with all the whistles it has no touch screen, back up camera, etc.
1996 is when US cars standardized on OBD2 computers due to emissions, so to find a truly dumb car you'd have to go earlier than that.
I see very little mention of Mazda here. 2014+ Mazda 6 or more recent 3 or cx3 are great looking and aren't all out on tech that would drive you nuts. And much more fun to drive than Toyota. Give those a look.
If I were you I'd probably just buy another 2020 Corolla or if I was feeling fancy a 2011.
Old stuff is your only option, imo. Almost everything in the last decade has some kind of tech bullshit in it.
This is only tangentially related, hopefully someone else here knows, are the newer fleet vehicles coming out still barebones? It might be a consideration if so
Alternatively, does anyone know of (a) car(s) which are easy to remove any computer systems?
While you "can" strip computer systems off a car... It is not recommended, for you never know the underlying impact (interms of interconnectedness) what you are removing has to the crucial driving routines..
I mean, you might unplug the heating of your car seat, and turns out the car thinks you have no seat... That sorta thing...
Edit: Unless the hacks are made public (of which are barely available, since they are a part of companys' trade secrets, someone's butt will get a proper suing for this) Just avoid them completely if you can.
You cant remove just any computer systems. Your current car would not start without all the chips inside.
New regulations require the use of several sytems ranging from ABS to eCall.
If you don't want any of those, just repair/buy an older car.
There are still cars being made without tablets in the middle if you just want that.
I drive an Audi S4. It has issues. If it’s no more, I’d probably replace it with another unreliable German vehicle. I also drive an F150, and it has broken a few times. If it croaks, I’d probably replace it with another F150…
Why I do this to myself? No idea.
It's called 21st century marketing bruv
I think what is a good choice greatly depends on your location, which affects prices, availability, spare parts availability etc.
Whatever vehicle it is ... you should get the option for rich Corinthian leather interior
Is the Holden/Vauxhall/Opel/Chevrolet Astra available in your country? I had one for a few years, tidy little car, built well, runs well. When it was written off I bought another, very happy with it.
Just switched from a 2015 Corolla S to a 2014 RAV4 Limited, absolutely love the feel and I don't imagine I'm ever going to leave the brand honestly. Toyota just makes damn good cars and they last forever. Look for good used RAV4s or 4Runners in your area pre-2016. My mechanic has swore by the engine Toyota used from 2008-2016, he says it's probably their best engine they made, and after that they changed styles.
GM W-body and GMT platform cars from around 2002-2008 I've found to be decent. The GM 3800 V6 engine and 5.3L Vortec V8 are extremely reliable and easy to maintain yourself if you're into that kind of thing. You can very easily replace the stock radio with an aftermarket unit that has Android auto/Apple Car play and won't spy on you. Since it's an American car and so many were sold in America, both new and used parts are pretty easy to find and pretty cheap. The biggest thing that kills these cars is rust, especially if you live in the salt belt, so just make sure you look underneath the car before buying.
Look for: Pontiac Grand Prix, Chevy Monte Carlo, Chevy Tahoe, Buick Regal, Chevy Avalanche/Silverado. A good example of these can be found for under $10k easily and if you look a little harder you can usually find good ones or ones that need minimal work for less than $5k.
Personally I plan on driving these cars until it becomes impossible to find them anymore. There's a junkyard near me that specializes in GM cars where I can get parts for DIRT cheap.
Currently I have an 05 Avalanche (140k miles) and an 07 Grand Prix (165k miles). Before those I had an 05 Grand Prix which died only due to rust, engine and transmission still strong at 160k miles. They hardly ever have issues, and when they do they are typically cheap issues or issues I can easily fix myself.
Sure - they're nothing flashy, but the cost of purchase + repairs is almost certainly less than the cost of a new or lightly used car alone. Also, minimal complicated computer systems, and no corporate spying.
Subaru Crosstrek remains about as analog as a car can be these days. Otherwise, you have to get a Chevrolet pickup truck or something.
I have one. It's great, but I wouldn't consider it a "dumb" car, just by Starlink alone. OP can probably opt to bypass it (there are tools out there to completely disconnect it from the infotainment system). That aside, it has a TON of tech on it that can only be controlled via the computer system, which OP wants to avoid.
Depends which one you buy. I have a manual transmission Crosstrek, so no starlink and no eyesight.
Yeah, but all Subaru's are now coming with cvt transmission and there have been some negative news concerning the durability of cvt transmissions in general
I switch back and forth between my 96 Tacoma with 250k miles and my 06 Scion xB with 190k miles. Love them both. Bury me in one of them.
How dumb do you need it? Old used BMWs are supprisingly cheap right now, and BMW was pretty late to adopt "smart" car technology. They also have a reputation for not breaking. For these reasons, I am considering buying one for my first car (uni!), but it sounds like it could work for you, too.
Where did you hear about a reputation for durability? I'm familiar with the phrase "if you can't afford two BMWs you can't afford one" because of how hard it is to maintain them
I've had my 2011 335i for 8 years and it's not really any worse than your average car
People repeating this stuff keeps used bmw prices low though which is good
They also have a reputation for not breaking.
I suppose if you go back to the ‘80s models or earlier this might be true. Otherwise, my first exhibit to the contrary would be plastic water pumps and plastic timing chain guides.
If at all possible, consider replacing your car with an E-bike. Way cheaper, both in upfront and maintenance costs. No insurance, no gas, no registration fees, etc, etc. With the right set-up you can haul a week's worth of groceries in the rain and not even think twice about it.
Found the city dweller
If at all possible.
I used to main a bicycle in the suburbs, which was probably orders of magnitude more pleasant than doing so in any American city, since both lack any serious bike infrastructure.
Consider a kit-car.