10mo ago

Macron Ready to Send Troops to Ukraine if Russia Approaches Kyiv or Odesa

www.kyivpost.com Macron Ready to Send Troops to Ukraine if Russia Approaches Kyiv or Odesa

At a meeting with a range of political parties, the President of France floated a scenario that could potentially lead to French troops deployed in Ukraine.

French President Emmanuel Macron met with parliamentary parties on Thursday. During the meeting Macron said he was open to the possibility of sending troops to Ukraine, as announced by, according to French newspaper L’Independant.

Fabien Roussel, a representative of the French Communist Party, said after the meeting that “Macron referenced a scenario that could lead to intervention [of French troops]: the advancement of the front towards Odesa or Kyiv.”

He noted that the French President showed parliamentarians maps of the possible directions of strikes by Russian troops in Ukraine.

Following the meeting, Jordan Bardella of the far-right National Rally party noted that “there are no restrictions and no red lines” in Macron’s approach.

World News @lemmy.ml

Macron Ready to Send Troops to Ukraine if Russia Approaches Kyiv or Odesa

www.kyivpost.com /post/29194

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271 comments

Finally someone with some fucking balls
- Someone with "balls" wouldn't be sit drinking champagne in a suit and send thousand to die out of business. Politicians like this one are actually mentally hill people with mental problems addicted to money and wealth
  
  Politicians like Putin? You know the source of all this is Putin himself. He is certainly mentally hill [sic]
- You can take my place then.
  
  Right. Macron’s not the one putting his head in front of the bullets

Russia's been nuclear saber rattling so much it might as well be "China's Final Warning"
If France wants to give their own saber a rattle and it makes Russia pause for some internal reflection for a moment, more power to them.

Don’t fuck with the French.
People forget they were a super power for centuries.
- Despite all the jokes, The French have won more wars than any other country in history. They were exhausted by the time 1940 rolled around
  
  They're country is right in the middle of one of the areas of the world with the most wars of all time, and it stretches from coast to coast. That alone says a ton.
  
  They were exhausted by the time 1940 rolled around
  They were not worthy of the mantle of responsibility
- Don’t fuck with the French.
  But what if I ... oh, you meant that as a figure of speech. Got it.
- Still are 😎
  
  I think once you have nukes you can send to anywhere on the planet at any time, you count as a superpower.
  
  Second best Navy behind USA, innit?
- They surrendered to the Germans after putting up a brave fight for ** checks notes ** 5 weeks.
  
  Meanwhile, 'murica: let's make a lot of money by selling war machines to both sides :)
  
  It was a good demonstration of the blitzkrieg tactic. Hitting hard and fast with aircraft, tanks and troop carriers without giving the enemy time to regroup or resupply. By the time the French knew what was happening it was too late to mobilize.
  The tactic couldn't be counted until the opposing side had enough firepower to stall it which would've taken too long and by that time defeat is a guarantee.
  Soviets were given tanks, aircraft, factories, everything they needed to counter the Germans later in the war which halted their army and that's when the blitzkrieg fell apart.
  Blitzkrieg is effective but only when your moving faster than the enemy can regroup and counter
- (jk, I love my French brothers)

As much as I dislike Macron, I'll just remember that he was one of the European leaders that was favoring finding a diplomatic solution the most during the earlier weeks of the war. He's probably being more opportunistic than brave, honest or committed, but at least you can't accuse him of being a bloodlusting warmonger.
- Nothing wrong with diplomatic solution if it leads to a withdrawal of the aggressor.
  
  Of course. I don't think Macron was in the wrong for trying, as long as Ukraine was being supplied at the same time.
- With The Nazi Mafia state you have to posture, huff and puff like in the olden days of Imperialism. You know, the childish game inbred kings and bishops used to play.
  You know, the days that Poland, Germany, Great Britain, Spain, France (past European super powers), forgot. Because they came to the conclusion that Imperialism is over.
  But Nazi russia is gonna peddle nazi imperialism. If people are close to revolt, send young to slaughter. It will fizzle out.
- I quite remember it, Macron and other French diplomats were humiliated by Putin and gang.
- He’s probably being more opportunistic than brave, honest or committed, but at least you can’t accuse him of being a bloodlusting warmonger.
  He's literally waging war right now. Were have you been in the past 10 years where he has beaten and repressed a million of his own people and passed all sort of authoritarians law?
  
  His policies make him a selfish neoliberal cunt, which is also pretty bad, but not quite a bloodlusting warmonger.

Finally someone with some friggin balls
- That could be called balls if he would take the rifle himself.
  Otherwise, it's political play - maybe a necessary one, but it has nothing to do with "balls".
  
  It's more like, having rts or 4x gamer skills
  
  It 100% is a political play but you must remeber thats what the armed forces of france signed up for they signed up to fight on behalf of the political power. Not one single other western country has even mentioned sending troops regardless of if he is the one holding a rifle (i suspect many of said troops being sent wont be doing such things they will most likly be engineers to support the western equipment) that is a ballsy political move and it should not be disregarded.
- Or at least talks the talk. No one has much faith in him to actually follow through though.
  
  Hes broken the seal on saying it hopefully a slightly more anti russian country (caugh caugh poland) will step up and let the people rape and kill their way across russia as they have wanted to for almost 100 years.

Following the meeting, Jordan Bardella of the far-right National Rally party noted that “there are no restrictions and no red lines” in Macron’s approach.
I don't know what this means, but it seems like a win for Ukraine, ofc it is just talk right now.
- And it most likely will remain talk. Macron would help Ukraine more by helping to set up a robust military supply chain for Ukraine.
- It's a reference to russian speakers' 'red lines' when foreign parties and Ukraine did something to cross them multiple times, but there was nothing in reaction. Ex-USSR folks started to call it brown lines for how they shit themselves with that rhetoric. I believe, even pro-war fanatics called them that at some point.

This is a remarkable turn around of two years ago when Macron warned about not to humiliate Putin.
- Yeah it really is. It's apparently pissing off Germany in particular within the EU - versus it's size and other nations, France has provided relatively little in aid compared to Germany, UK, US, and Macron initially undermined the joint front being put forward as you say. Now he is grandstanding and seemingly trying to "lead" while also seemingly advocating escalation.
  Everyone else is treading a fine line between confronting Putin and not escalating things further.
  For what it's worth, I actually do think we should be doing more because Putin is a dangerous tyrant and appeasement over the past 20 years hasn't worked. He invaded Georgia and now Ukraine twice, he interferes in global elections undermining democracy and he is an authoritarian dictator who wants to expand his influence further into his neighbours. But Macron is not a credible leader for that, and whatever happens needs to be co-ordinated and carefully actioned - where there is more sanctions, or targeted military support.
  Sadly the US, UK and Germany are also all led by weak leaders and for now there is no credible leader to galvanise western democracies to work better together. I don't see any strong up and coming leaders in the forthcoming UK and US elections (barring a surprise in the US elections given the age of the candidates; and even then it'd likely be Kamala Harris or Nikki Haley, neither of whom seem likely to be much difference), Germany is unlikely to yield a leader in the near future. That does ironically leave the next French presidential election as the best opportunity for someone better to emerge, but I suspect it will degenerate into another "anyone but Le Pen" election.
  
  Russia's hot engagements in Burkina Faso, Central Africa, Mali and Syria, the various degrees of meddling in e.g. Armenia, Moldova and Yemen, and the 20 years of general political "influencing" all across Africa and the Arab countries are often neglected. This is why parts of the Western public don't understand the need to contain Russia. It's a wannabe worldwide player, and it's corrupt as hell. Allowed to have its way, it'll turn every country into a vassal autocracy, Soviet-union style.
- Macron is highly inconsistent because dude pays a bunch of consulting companies, he's basically their mouthpiece at this point. There is a political compass meme that shows just how much contradictory bullshit he has said.
  If the wind starts to smell like a Russian victory he'd throw himself under Russian balls
- Yup, but now that Putin managed to do so himself, Macron doesn't need to avoid it anymore.
  "Besides, I think that Napoleon guy was on to something"
- While I don't know the full context of that remark, power in Russia and most of the rest of Asia places great emphasis in "saving face". So if diplomacy is still a possibility to defuse a conflict with an Asian power, providing them an out where they are not humiliated is crucial. If an out is provided in which they are clearly in top but also have to face humiliation, it will not be taken.

I hope this makes Putin's stomach churn, as if his piss wasn't frothy enough since the start of this war revealed some of his navy was missing before they even began.
- Part of his Navy went AWOL? I totally missed that what with "Russian Warship, Go Fuck Yourself."
  
  Yeah the only Russian Aircraft Carrier was completely immobile, the person in charge of overseeing repairs was charged with embezzling 45 Million Rubles, and that's only just the start of it. They were missing fuel, rations, winter clothes, you name it.
  
  Not sure what they meant specifically, but maybe it was that some of their navy only existed in paper? I know that was the case for a lot of bits and pieces of their military in general but didn't realize it might apply to entire ships (which need to be supplied and crewed and seem overly blatant for even Russian corruption, though would be a good "gig" if they could manage it... Up until the point those ships are needed for actual military action).

I am in conflict about that move. But Macron at least tries to irritate Putin with his own definition of a „red line“, like „if you push to Odessa or Kyiv we will send troops“ maybe this is just the way of talking to Putin now, Russia always threaten Europe of nuclear strikes, their propaganda shitty tv shows is full of bombing Great Britain and sink the whole island, bombing or conquering Berlin again blah blah. They won’t because they can’t because of NATO and even without the US, Russia is not capable to conquer whole Europe, yet. So I think it is a good move in terms of threatening Putin with nato troops in Ukraine, because this is the only language he understands. On the other hand France is kinda safe when it comes to a conventional war, at least for a long time. Of course Germany is scared because it is not that far away, it is literally just Poland between Germany and russia and the German military is by far not able to fight a war against a well trained army with endless human resources.
- On the other hand France is kinda safe when it comes to a conventional war, at least for a long time. Of course Germany is scared because it is not that far away, it is literally just Poland between Germany and russia and the German military is by far not able to fight a war against a well trained army with endless human resources.
  France has nukes, Germany doesn't. Meaning france can say whatever they want, the nuke-threat is empty against other nuke countries.
  If they really wanna play putin's stupid game, NATO should amass 200.000 troops not in or next to Ukraine, but elsewhere. 50.000 more near scandinavian border, 50.000 more baltics & poland, 50.000 turkey-georgia, 25.000 moldova/romania and, because why not, 25.000 somewhere near bering strait/alaska. All-in, tanks, plane, carriers, stand by on every other accessible border to russia. See how russia really handles that permanent land overstretch in every direction.
  
  Germany has access to American nukes (nuclear sharing - they would be dropped by German pilots), which would be used if Russian tanks came even anywhere close to the border.
  
  I mean, NATO already does this. NATO countries have troops stationed in Bulgaria, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Slovakia. It's a mixture of forces from different NATO countries spread all across the Russian border.
  This exists because none of those nations want to be invaded by Russia, so we keep troops stationed there to protect them from exactly what happened to Ukraine. If Putin wants to go into any of those countries he has to take on fully modernised western militaries to do it. And attacking any NATO member would also lead to a wide front invasion across the board, which the Russian military is not equipped to counter.
- it is literally just Poland between Germany and russia
  Poland has one of the most powerful militaries in Europe. If you think Russia's been struggling in Ukraine, you haven't seen anything yet. Since Poland joined the EU (and later, NATO) it's become much more prosperous than it was under Soviet/Russian influence:
  It's been using that prosperity to spend on military. It's not the pushover from days of yore any more, and it's in NATO
  
  I very much doubt they are in even remotely the same league as France or the UK. The lack of nuclear weapons would be a hint, as would the inability to produce more than basic weapons systems on their own. Don't get me wrong, they would be able to put up a fierce fight against Russia, but not on their own.
  
  well, we had a good run, ww3 is gonna be the end of us
- full of bombing Great Britain and sink the whole island,
  Well if it was up to me I'd keep Ireland floating
  
  Which is what they said...GB is England, Scotland & Wales.
  You're thinking of United Kingdom, which is short for United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
  Note that the island of Ireland is 2 countries and you can't sink one without sinking the other....unless you saw it in 2 first....
  
  You clearly haven't seen the russian tv broadcast showing their plan to nuke the ocean and create a tsunami that covers the british isles - very bond villain
- "please stop" never made a bully stop.
- Personally I wouldn't fear the Russian army. They're only barely making incremental gains in Ukraine despite a massive advantage in numbers, artillery, and air power.
  What I do fear is Putin getting scared of NATO calling his bluff and replying to Ukraine, before doing something insanely stupid with the 2000+ nukes in their national stockpile.
  
  But we have 14K+ nukes, so jokes on him!
- There is one important difference when it comes to what rhetoric is suitable between France and Russia, I think. Russia has control over the narrative within it's land, about the media and limits free speech. If Russia doesn't follow up on it's threads, there are no internal consequences and externally, Russia might lose some credibility but still say an unpredictable danger. I think France has a lot more to loose when not following up on their threads / red lines. In terms of diplomacy with other countries, internally with the government appearing weak to its citizens and towards Russia too.

If French troops were sent into Ukraine and were then hit by Russia, would that then trigger NATO agreements?
Article 6 says:
"For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France 2, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer; on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer."
Aware this might be a situation where the spirit of the agreement ends up being more important than the legalese.
- It would not. It's a defensive treaty.
  Ukraine isn't a part of France or under the jurisdiction of France, so the attack wouldn't be on France's territory, and Ukraine isn't a member of NATO itself.
  
  Complete speculation but I'd bet that the UK government is so fickle that if France sent in troops then the UK would 'have' to send in its own, and by that point the US MiC would be complaining that the US hadn't sent them in.
  
  Idk, reading it sounds like any attack on member troops would count
- [an attack] on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force
  The forces in question need to be attacked somewhere that the treaty protects, which Ukraine is not.

Fuck Putin with the big stick.
- Strike while the beast is weak.

The real question is why did they not do it already?
- Trying to solidify a stance of power in the EU due to the unreliability of American aid depending on whether a crackpot dictator or a rational, sane person wins the next election would be my guess.

Oh fuck.

Probably FFR first.
- Tell us why ?

I guess he will revenge Napoleon /s And even Nazi Germany armes to the teeth failed, but Macron shall win now /s

Good! I'm in!
- Ah, so you joined the french army?
  
  I'm on active duty in a NATO country, so sure, why not!

Seems sensible enough

Good, Russia will keep indirectly wearing out west countries resources while China prepare their whole army to take control of the wore out countries..

As much as I want to stick it to Putin, I'm fleeing to Ireland the moment something like this happens.
I don't feel like being vaporized by a Soviet warhead.
- I'm going to Kap Verde myself. Or Gambia. Uruguay maybe, or Honduras. Or Vietnam, or Kambodia. Or Madagascar, you can never go wrong with Madagascar. Or Nepal. Tanzania maybe.

send him instead to the front
- They’re okay with war because it won’t be them holding the famas, it will be me or other french people.
  Fuck them.
  
  Putin wants to take over Europe. You're okay with that?
  
  Quick reminder that we have a military. There won't be a draft any time soon and if there is one, we would have other problems. So unless you are in the army (and if you are, you signed for it) you won't have to "hold the FAMAS"

French trrops would just surrender after 5 weeks, like they did last time.
- The "last time" they were civilians, all their military having more or less been wiped out.
- The last time French troops fought bravely and fiercely, allowing the British to escape.
  
  and then they surrendered :)
- Sort of a joke that they just decided to draw this gray line now, given that Russian troops have been advancing for months

Here we go WWIII
- Nah
  
  Nah, no one is fighting.
- Jumped the gun
  
  Yes you did. It hasn’t happened yet. It’s ramping up. Look around.

Ah yes, get two nuclear powers against each other, great fucking idea.
Do people not see how insane this is?
- There have been half a million casualties on European soil. Do you suggest we simply let more people die? Or that nuclear powers can simply bully smaller countries and do what they want?
  
  I suggest you to run a simple wikipedia search on any EU or world leader to see how much corrupted and evil they are. I also suggest you to pick up a good history book and read it. The only war that should matters for people is that against their own corrupted mafiosi rulers. War between countries and nations are mentally hill games played by politicians greedy for wealth and power. War games between nuclear powers is always a disastrous scenario for people like me and you. It's not just the threat of total destruction that should concern you, when countries prepares for war they trigger a destructive machine.
- So your proposal is what, let Putin fuck Ukraine? Then Moldova and Georgia? Then maybe the Baltics? Have you not reasoned through the consequences of abandoning Ukraine?
  
  Ppl on this site sometimes act like war doesnt need to happen if they just dont believe in it, personally. I get it, im a pacifist, too. War is evil and hellish. This is a fact.
  It is also a fact that russia invaded Ukraine and has on numerous occasions now called it a stepping stone. If u dont want a war, youve already got one! If you dont want it at your doorstep (bc thats the closest youll get to avoiding it), then Ukraine must be better funded and equiped.
  We're not the only ones with wants, we're not the only ones with plans. Countries have them, too, ans some countries happen to be much more hostile towards ppl who like having their wants and needs free from government intervention.
  
  Ukraine and all other countries in the world are invisible lines draw on a map. Politicians do not fight they wars and do not give a fuck about people, look at how all the countries supporting ukraine are supporting the genocide in gaza at the same time.
  We are already walking on a thin line, if a normal bomb accidentally hits a nuclear plant in ukraine prepare to abandon half of the world.
  There are a thousand of better solutions to solve this conflict that even a kid could come up with. Truth is they don't want to solve it, politicians are mentally hill people competing with each others for world domination. They profit on war, they want more of it not less, they want more power not less. Russians are chilling in Dubai, where are the sanctions against Arabia and its dictators?
  
  So your proposal is what, let Putin fuck Ukraine?
  You're saying as if either France sends troops or Putin conquers Ukraine. What Ukraine needs is machinery and ammunition.
  
  You just don't see another way? Is it war or war? Diplomacy and peace is just not an option anymore? I hope your point of view derives from the hope no more people lose their homes nor their lives in Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, etc. and not from playing strategy games thousands of kilometers away. "We tried diplomacy and didn't work" you might say. And you would be right. But they should try harder (politicians). We pay them for that, and all they can come up with is just sending innocent people out to die.
- I'm sure Russia will withdraw from Ukraine to prevent such an eventuality from happening.
- That would imply that nuclear powers should just annex all non-nuclear powers while they're available. How would a United America sound like, from Seattle, USA to Ushuaia, USA.
- Like Pakistan and India? Or India and China?
  Nuclear powers have skirmishes all the time without exchanging spicy boys, and France's nuclear arsenal is by design purely defensive.
- Do people not see how insane this is?
  They are brainwashed by propaganda so they don't. Governments spend billions on it. For the same reason they celebrate and cheer on weapons manufacturing and war, not understanding that weapons are designed to kill people not to help them and that war only brings destruction.
  
  War is insane, so it is unfortunate that Russia has unleashed it again. But fortunately we are working on helping Ukraine stop Russia from killing more people and bringing more destruction to Ukraine.
  Edit: I love how pro-Russian shills are downvoting me without being able to give a single real reason why one should blame this war on anyone else but Russia.
- I have no desire for American troops to fight in Ukraine. For all those with the bloodlust. Go enlist.
  I wouldn’t go. I’d just resign my commission and wash my hands of it.
  I’m tried of everyone looking to America to come save them and they whine about Americans after we do.
  
  Wtf? Did Iraq/Afghanistan ask you to invade??? When was the last time the US did a military intervention to help somebody else?
  
  You're just as popular outside your echo chamber I see.

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