It's funny that leftists call him genocide joe when Trump would be actively worse and offer additional manpower.
Complain and downvote how you like, but consider which candidate you actually have a chance of getting to agree to your point of view.
Just because trump is an infinitely low bar doesn’t mean Biden isn’t actively supporting genocide.
I’m sick of seeing “But Trump is worse!!!!!1!” whenever there is a discussion of how fucking terrible Biden can be, especially on his candid genocide support. And the cries from the Democratic party to fall in line behind a president that is failing to support the will of the people in that party is a bit shitty, even though it is inevitable in such a hierarchical power structure.
Like, the problem isn’t “who would support genocide less” it is “why the fuck is the president supporting genocide” and the other question we should be asking is “what is causing us to be in the position that we are debating on who is the lesser evil pro genocide candidate”
Also, I’d like to point out that biden is a hardcore zionist. He will never not be a hardcore zionist. He will never be convinced to stop supporting israel, and we will lucky to even convince him to stop supporting israel until the genocide stops. Or to just call for a ceasefire now.
I think that's the point behind voting uncommitted in the primary. It's to put some heat on the candidate that actually has the potential to change their mind and do something. I can't speak for anyone else, but it's not as if I'm going to be voting for trump in the actual election and I understand how a 2 party fptp election works enough to put my vote in the "capable of having potential to stop supporting genocide" category.
The Uncommitted Movement's goal to get high uncommitted voter turnout in the primary so that Joe Biden changes his outdated views on Palestine and Israel is great.
However if people vote uncommitted in the primaries because they are convinced Biden is Genocide Joe then they aren't going to want to vote for Biden in the general election.
Anyone who thinks someone who has the wherewithal to vote uncommitted to protest the genocide of the Palestinians by Israel in the Democratic-only primary but not realize that the fascist republican party is significantly worse than Biden for the general election is arguing in bad faith.
someone who has the wherewithal to vote uncommitted to protest the genocide of the Palestinians by Israel in the Democratic-only primary
Telling people Biden is Genocide Joe isn't a nuanced position. People who think Joe Biden equals genocide aren't voting for him now and aren't voting for him later. An argument that ignores the inherent cognitive dissidence it would take for someone, who believes Joe Biden is directly the cause of Israel's genocide of Palestinians, to vote for Joe Biden is disingenuous.
However if people vote uncommitted in the primaries because they are convinced Biden is Genocide Joe then they aren’t going to want to vote for Biden in the general election.
If he changes policy, why not? People can make mistakes. Ideally, I'd rather not support someone who has such a past history and I'd be skeptical that the change is a long-term change rather than just trying to appeal to voters in the short-term, but given the other likely outcome, someone it certainly would be a lot better outcome.
Genocide Joe? The US isn't committing genocide, it isn't even a proxy war. It completely adds a level of responsibility on Biden that isn't his to bare. I'm not saying he has none, but that's farcical.
The US has an outsized influence on Israel. The US bankrolls Israel, and provides weapons. The US provides $4 billion annually for Israel to buy weapons, guaranteed cash for the military. The US is the main trading partner with Israel and provides loans with really low rates. US firms open factories in Israel (like Intel) via direct subsidies to boost the Israel economy. Edit: this was just ran today https://web.archive.org/web/20240000000000*/https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/06/israel-weapons-sales-loophole
The US is clearly in a proxy war with many factions in the Middle East via Israel, as the US props up and enables Israel. The US literally was in a proxy war with the Soviet Union when Israel and Egypt were duking it out. Israel being the US’s proxy in the Middle East did not end just because the Soviet Union ended.
The US (and Biden) has major responsibility, is directly linked, and could exercise a lot of the influence the US pays for to halt the genocide of the Palestinians.
Woah, with how much the US does for Israel, it almost seems like Israel controls the largest political lobby in the US!
Oh wait.
Aw sweet, republican astroturfing post!
You do not understand the US primary system.
People are driven by the genocide of the Palestinians to stop it. The title is jarring, divisive, and highly critical on purpose: 30,000+ Palestinian civilians are dead and counting. Biden has not done enough to end the genocide that the US enables, hence he is targeted by this me-me.
The uncommitted vote in the 2nd term incumbent US Democrat primary, which this me-me depicts, is a safe way to draw attention to the significant need for the US to exercise its power and end the genocide. Biden is not running against anyone with credible support, he will sweep the nomination guaranteed as he is a popular president.
There is no credible call to not vote for Biden in the general. If you see such a call, that is actually republican astroturfing or Russian bots at work. Anyone sane and rational is well aware the fascist republicans are worse, even if Biden does not act to end the genocide - as the fascists have already said they would “complete the mission”.
Palestinian children who are getting murdered by Israel are Republican?
aw sweet, genocide denial reply!
(/s, i am being facetious to prove a point of how rediculous it is to throw accusations at the slightest disagreement)
What's with all the tankies recently? If they wanted to change things for the better they would organize and vote for biden, even if he sucks. The organizing is the important part anyways, voting is just damage control.
EDIT: In case it was unclear, I do not mean organize to vote for biden.
EDIT: I am an idiot. This is a primary. Don't vote for biden if there is a better candidate.
People are organizing the uncommitted campaign to get Biden to stop giving billions to support an active genocide
"Tankie" is when you don't vote for a candidate who supports genocide.
The state of the online "tankie" discourse has never been worse.
Voting for president is damage control.
Real action is local. And voting local is far more influential in the long run.
You need to vote both.
I love how not voting for a politician who doesn’t represent my values is a bad thing. The founding fathers would puke if they saw how things are ran today.
How about Genocidal GOP or Genocidal 45
Language and words have great power. Walking around attaching the word genocide to a man who has at worse not done enough in a very complex situation will cause great harm to the electorate. You may be propping up the uncommitted vote, but not everyone will understand that, many may just see the genocide and not vote for Biden ever or worse vote for the orange idiot.
Meanwhile you have politicians who will kill Americans with their policies. And you have a potential future president who would put boots on the ground in Gaza and do just about whatever they could to see Ukraine returned to Russia.
Words have power. A simple phrase will stick more than the meaning behind it. There is a reason crooked Hilary worked so well, and no one can tell you why she might be crooked beyond her emails and Benghazi. Even then they only know those words, they don't know the meaning behind them. We need all of the votes we can get in November.
i mean i guess?
counterpoint: “sleepy joe” was around long before the 2019 general election and the dude still got into office. and that was a powerful phrase too.
i’m not down with what your argument boils down to, that we shouldn’t criticize politicians because it risks elections. this is a GENOCIDE happening. it’s not like this name came up for funsies. america has long been in the business of funding attrocities, and i have no shame in calling on Biden to change that.
The difficulty, in this particular case, is that the alternative is a President who will even more aggressively support Israel's genocide.
Like, I get it. The idea of voting for a party and a president that are actively supporting genocide feels morally reprehensible.
But the alternative will, without question, be so much worse. At least the Democrats can, to some degree, be pressured on this issue. Trump will take the opportunity to murder Brown people and gleefully run with it to the ends of the earth, and along the way he'll burn down what's left of American democracy just for good measure.
This is, quite literally, the trolley problem. You either have to be actively complicit in some amount of horror, or a passive bystander to an even greater atrocity, placating yourself with the knowledge that while more people have died as a direct result of your choices, at least it wasn't your hand on the trigger.
There is no good option here, and there is no morally clean option here. It's awful, it fucking sucks, it's not a choice anyone should ever be forced to make. But for every American, it's the choice in front of them now.
I am not championing calling Biden that, but these types of arguments are dismissive and downplay the reason he is being construed with genocide.
There is an actual genocide of the Palestinian people occurring now. 30,000+ are dead and they have absolutely no way to escape or protect themselves. People get radicalized by that, people get angry, people make up a shocking and critical name for Biden.
Biden needs to do everything he can to end the genocide, so that people will no longer have a reason to trot out that monicker.
Anyone who thinks someone who has the wherewithal to vote uncommitted to protest the genocide of the Palestinians by Israel in the Democratic-only primary but not realize that the fascist republican party is significantly worse than Biden for the general election is arguing in bad faith. And you’ve already linked to the fascist saying he would “complete the mission”, he’s told whoever is actually a single-issue-voter on the Palestinian genocide that he will be worse. People are dying, and it is clear that a vote for Biden in the general is the best way for the genocide to end (if it does not before the general).
The uncommitted movement presents a safe and effective avenue for voters to voice dissatisfaction with President Biden’s policies, particularly with the Israel-Hamas conflict. By doing so in the primary, voters can signal discontent without risking a Republican victory in the general election. The purpose is to send a wake-up call to the Biden administration that it is failing to address issues and effectively engage with the party, vis a vis that Biden is enabling a genocide.
To me it seems pragmatic and meaningful while still providing space for broader party unity and success. I don’t see how this is being compared with tankie sentiment? Someone might need to ELI5.
edit: one of the accounts i’m seeing exhibit this behavior literally admitted they think anyone who uses the hammer and sickle icon is a tankie. so there we go lol.
I think people calling this tankie don’t understand what a tankie is and don’t understand the primary process in the US.
Tankie = authoritarian communist, they’re down to clown with genocide (ask em about holodomor, tankies will tell you it didn’t happen or the Soviet gov didn’t mean it as a purposeful genocide or some other shit)
Primary process in the US = only Dems vote for Dems, voting uncommitted in just the Democratic presidential primary shows “against genocide” popularity as Biden’s team have good estimates of how many Dems should have voted for him.
Thus the campaign to get people to vote uncommitted in the primary is a way to show Biden directly how many people do not support the US supporting the genocide of the Palestinian people. Which is antithetical to tankie sentiment. And since this is a primary, it is a strong way to show anti-genocide vote numbers without enabling the fascist republican party.
Anyone who thinks someone who has the wherewithal to vote uncommitted to protest the genocide of the Palestinians by Israel in the Democratic-only primary but not realize that the fascist republican party is significantly worse than Biden for the general election is arguing in bad faith.
I can't even tell anymore whether this meme is pro-Democrat or pro-Republican, anti-American, anti-Semitic, post-ironic or just cursed.
You do not understand the US primary system.
This me-me is anti-genocide. How could it be anti-Semitic? Anti-American? Insane you could reach for those.
People are driven by the genocide of the Palestinians to stop it. The title is jarring, divisive, and highly critical on purpose: 30,000+ Palestinian civilians are dead and counting. Biden has not done enough to end the genocide that the US enables, hence he is targeted by this me-me.
The uncommitted vote in the 2nd term incumbent US Democrat primary, which this me-me depicts, is a safe way to draw attention to the significant need for the US to exercise its power and end the genocide. Biden is not running against anyone with credible support, he will sweep the nomination guaranteed as he is a popular president.
There is no credible call to not vote for Biden in the general. If you see such a call, that is actually republican astroturfing or Russian bots at work. Anyone sane and rational is well aware the fascist republicans are worse, even if Biden does not act to end the genocide - as the fascists have already said they would “complete the mission”.
It really does get confusing. But 196 isn't the most serious instance so I just let it slide, give it a lil downvote and go about my business.
Anyone that throws around "Genocide Joe" is a fascist that's trying to undermine the actual presidental election.
People are driven by the genocide of the Palestinians to stop it. The title is jarring, divisive, and highly critical on purpose: 30,000+ Palestinian civilians are dead and counting. Biden has not done enough to end the genocide that the US enables, hence he is targeted by this me-me.
There is no credible call to not vote for Biden in the general. If you see such a call, that is actually republican astroturfing or Russian bots at work. Anyone sane and rational is well aware the fascist republicans are worse, even if Biden does not act to end the genocide - as the fascists have already said they would “complete the mission”.
Yeah I just copy and pasted shit I’ve said to others cause people just keep saying the same uninformed shit. People are dying, and the poster is clearly very moved by their plight. It must end, hence the uncommitted vote protest
GenocideJoe is the fascist enabling the mass slaughter of Palestinian children.
can we stop calling people who do the bare minimum to criticize the incumbent president fascist?
go ahead, tell them you disagree. explain your position and reasoning. i get it, you are afraid of the farther reaching effects of such messaging.
but please also get it through your head that there is a genocide happening, and some people happen to be taking that seriously. people are fucking dying. stop with the name calling and gross stereotyping.
I told myself I wasn't going to get wrapped up in any fights over this conflict when it started because no one will ever back down, and I've already gone too far. See it as a cop-out if you like, that's fine, but I cannot continue one way or the other.
If you have any ethical thought processes within you, take them and follow to the logical path that the genocide of the Palestinian people is wrong.
This is not a “fights over this conflict”, Palestinians are being murdered in the thousands. Genocide must be prevented, especially when the US is directly funding it in a very significant way and has the influence to end it. Hence this protest vote in a completely safe 2nd term incumbent Democrat-only primary, which is another attempt to try to get those in control of the US government to heed the will of the people.
My stance on this conflict is:
"I'm German. I'm gonna sit my ass down and shut the fuck up before I accuse Jews of genocide."The Israel government isn't "Jews" and to equivocate them is unironically racist. Right now the Israel government is committing a mass genocide against Palestinians. There are many many Jewish people that don't support this. They are literally attempting to make Israel an ethnostate by eradicating the other people that live there.
This is messed up, and I am very confused
You do not understand the US primary system.
People are driven by the genocide of the Palestinians to stop it. The title is jarring, divisive, and highly critical on purpose: 30,000+ Palestinian civilians are dead and counting. Biden has not done enough to end the genocide that the US enables, hence he is targeted by this me-me.
The uncommitted vote in the 2nd term incumbent US Democrat primary, which this me-me depicts, is a safe way to draw attention to the significant need for the US to exercise its power and end the genocide. Biden is not running against anyone with credible support, he will sweep the nomination guaranteed as he is a popular president.
There is no credible call to not vote for Biden in the general. If you see such a call, that is actually republican astroturfing or Russian bots at work. Anyone sane and rational is well aware the fascist republicans are worse, even if Biden does not act to end the genocide - as the fascists have already said they would “complete the mission”.
Is this a grandparent forward?
Maybe you should change the US policy on Israel. Your election and millions of voters who will sit at home depend on it.
A non-vote for Biden is essentially a vote for Trump. Simple as that
