What is a story were the main villain actually turned out to be the good guy?

The older I get, more I agree with Magneto.

A Bioshock-like game set on Asteroid M would be, if you will excuse the parlance, baller.

Even the first season had Amon, the guy that wanted equality between benders and non-benders. At one point we're even shown that power was cut to a predominantly non-bender neighborhood, and when people went outside to protest to get their power turned back on, they were all rounded up and arrested. Afterwards, when Korra goes and tries to get the people that were arrested set free, she's told

All equalist suspects are being detained indefinitely. They'll be freed if and when the task force deems them no longer a threat.

Just in case it wasn't clear enough by that point that non-benders were treated as second class citizens.

I've been meaning to re-watch Korra, but I remember even the first time I watched it being a bit disappointed in the "enlightened centrism" where they are trying to paint every conflict as pacifists vs extremists.

I think it's similar to looking at BioShock 1 and BioShock Infinite. There's a lot of writers out there who just use politics and ideology as a setting for the conflict rather than actually being central to their message. It's simply a solid formula to make a villain: take any sort of stance and push it to violent extremes. Comstock is a religious zealot, Andrew Ryan I don't think ever even mentions spirituality if I remember. Ken Levine's message in the two games is not about religion, but extremes.

There are benefits. It makes the villains more nuanced and relatable. It gives the protagonist room for doubt and allows for some of the "good" guys to take on antagonistic roles. But Korra also ends up supporting an oppressive regime, and Booker DeWitt gets shoehorned into fights against the people rebelling against his enemy because... Reasons?

If you're talking about Kuvira you should read the comics that take place after the show. My feelings on Kuvira became much more mixed as I ended up sympathizing with her after finishing them.

Even in the first season, I was siding with the equalists :s

They also try to get rid of the avatar, because she is an infallible being with incredibly outsized power.

Did autocorrect change "fallible"? Because otherwise it makes the opposite point.

I think what made that group such good villains is that you could definitely see their point of view. That said, they left behind a TON of collateral damage, and they didn't seem to care that innocent people, including children, died in their wake everywhere they went. They were terrorists that happened to have a noble cause.

The formula for a good villain is "legitimate grievance, insane solution."

No they definitely were bad guys. You cant try to murder someone just because they were born as a specific person you dont like and be good guys. And they didnt differentiate between the Earth queen and any other ruler. Their ideology when it came down to it, was indefensible trash.

Damn... I thought I had a unique thought

Who's the 'main villain' in the Bible?

https://youtu.be/sky6u0ntu24?si=3NcterSCz0mO7YZu

You have the most appropiate username.

I mean, he did recreate a cataclysmic event in the process, and the projected crisis was bound to happen in 1000 years... One can never be too prepared I guess.

What is that even trying to say? That there is such thing as going too far when fighting the energy crisis? lol

Who are you?

What do you want?

Also, I think good and bad is a bit fluid there. It's just people with different agendas. Well, except emperor Cartagia. And perhaps Bester.

What bad guys are good guys? The reverse is obviously Vorlons.

Yeah and he gets unlimited power from the sabertooth looking god or whatever.

How was Jerry evil? Mice gotta skim

Snape was never a good guy though. Very brave, yes and he had some good qualities. He was also vindictive and a bully - willing to put his petty dislikes above the quality of his teaching.

I cant see Ozymandias as a good guy. At all. None of the "heroes" are, but Oz was the worst of them.

Nah ozymandies was kind of an ass regardless . Did he solve a big problem ? Yes . Was he a good guy ? Far from it.

If we're going with doomer anime Naussicaä is probably a better example.

I think Jaime becomes a good guy. He starts out as a bad guy but he had a redemption arc.

Not everyone i thought jon, robert, ned, arya,hoddor and tyrrion was good and thats from the top of my head.

Stannis was right but an asshole.

Ned was right but an idiot. As were Robb and John.

Sandor had a decent conscience he never fucking listened to.

Brienne always listened to hers and never made a good decision.

Jaime was only an anti-hero.

Mance... probably could've left out the cannibals.

Did they make Jamie less of a tool in the show or something? Cause in the books he basically just goes back to doing what he was doing before, minus one hand and plus lots of moping.

Jamie pushed a kid to his death (edit: who miraculously survives to tee up a tone deaf depiction of a character with disabilities but that’s not important right now) and raped his sister over the corpse of their dead child.

Proponent of knowledge and education. Isn't big on forced worship. Doesn't murder you for not paying enough attention. Guess it's all just a trick to capture your eternal soul.

I loved the Vampire Lestat.

The golden hour.

In Tale of the Body Thief, he drinks orange juice and it makes him think of drinking sunshine.

And the first was by far the best

Looks like your spoilers aren't working - spoilers on lemmy are three : on either side of the spoiler.

There are no good guys in Borderlands. Full stop.

Rooney? How did he turn out to be the good guy?

Or do you mean Jeanie?

the method was the problem as far as i'm concerned
not that i saw enough episodes pre-timeskip to have a strong opinion, though

Twisted is what made me love musicals. They're not a big thing in my culture, our theatre is strictly non-musical, and the movie ones seemed weird to me. But after watching Twisted, they all clicked for me. Everyone should give it a watch!

The newer one? If so, yeah, that's true.

Oof that was a hard one to watch sometimes

Alright, I'm intrigued. Could you explain why?

I'd say that's an "everyone sucks here" type of story.

still ain't finished it after all these years 'cause of how hard some levels are (and i don't wanna use a video every damn time)

It’s important to remember that the Quarians are living in the shadow of a war and exodus they didn’t personally start and have had generations telling them a story of survival and heroism against an unstoppable machine juggernaut. That’s what makes their decision to cooperate all the more powerful. They’ve spent their whole lives trying to plant a tree whose shade they’ll never sit in that they always feel is at risk of being cut down again.

It’s also understandable when a significant portion of the geth just tried to kill everybody a few years prior and was abducting humans to impale on spikes that turn them into machines-monsters.

I'll never stop complaining that in the second movie Dooku tells Obi-Wan that the Separatists are the good guys and that there's a sith influencing the Senate. Which would have been a cool reveal for the audience, that we're rooting for the bad guys.

But then Dooku is also a sith anyway. What a wasted opportunity.

I haven't seen the movie, but in the book, absolutely fucking not. At one point he abuses two 10 year-olds and from that point there was precisely 0 empathy from me. Bad shit happened to him while incarcerated which is unfortunate, but a lot of other things that happened to him before the incarceration and after he was released were completely deserved.

Edit: To be clear, he did plenty of other bad shit, and I'm not comparing the things he did between themselves, that was just the tipping point for him becoming irredeemable to me. His age doesn't make a difference to me.

Alex isn't a 'good guy.' He's the price you pay to liver in a free society where people are allowed to make their own choices, no matter how stupid they are.

Absolutely not, unless you adhere to pure utilitarianism. Veidt kills untold numbers of innocent people on a self-imposed quest to do what he believes will save humanity. He was a straight up megalomaniac and the only upside is that his murderous actions eventually lead to peace.

Questionable. Depending on your attitude towards the follow-up Doomsday Clock, he is really just a megalomaniac who believes he's the good guy

...by killing millions. Let's not forget that part.