Nintendo sues Switch emulator Yuzu for ‘facilitating piracy at a colossal scale’

Honestly, I'm surprised this didn't happen sooner. Emulating old hardware is one thing, but they have a current vested interest in their most recent console.

Still, Nintendo's lawyers can rub spurge on their eyes, and I hope the Yuzu devs find a great lawyer (or better yet, are safely hidden behind some kind of digital or geopolitical veil).

safely hidden behind some kind of digital or geopolitical veil

When will people learn that the safest place to develop a Nintendo emulator is Pyongyang?
- I guess that depends on your definition of "safe"
Yeah, it has always felt like we had something we couldn't wish for or expect. And it's a much better experience than using an actual switch.

Sadly the only surprising thing about this is how long it took for Nintendo to do something, I guess they worked on having as good of a chance as they could.
- It would be a waste of time to litigate a case they think they'll lose, after all. Unfortunately, once the devs included proprietary code in the application, they kind of sealed their fate.
  
  Maybe they got a little too excited over TotK and thought they were under Nintendo's radar. Maybe they felt like they owed the community an app that could play Nintendo's highly-anticipated game practically on day one. I dunno. Either way, it was a miscalculated move, and now they're reaping the consequences.

“Nintendo sues” oh look it’s a day that ends in Y. The only person Nintendo isn’t dead set on suing is Nintendo.

Here’s you 937th remake of Super Mario Bros 2 that you can only rent, have a nice day.

And our online service is absolute trash but you’ll pay anyway to have a legal emulator until we also discontinue that for Super other garbage online service!

Don't forget that they will hide behind arbitration to avoid paying up for knowing seeking shoddy consoles/controllers.
- Oh don't even get me started. Hall effect has been known since 1879, those JoyCons didn't use it because it was cheaper to use shitty graphite. They literally went the cheap ass route because they didn't even care.
Their Emulator can't even run SNES games at a stable framerate.
Actually, they sued themselves once too
- Don't know the website, is this bait?
It's even worse than that. The only way to back up save files for games like Animal Crossing, which can represent a ton of playtime, is to pay for their online service. The save games aren't saved to the cartridge like they were with 3ds and you can't back up saves locally on the SD card either.

You know why I played the games on yuzu? It’s because the joycons suck and they are expensive to replace.

I did the stick drift repair on my own, but the L and R buttons are soldiered to the main board so it can’t be repaired.

I bought a right joycon on its own and then the next week the left joycon had the same issue.

I wasn’t going to spend about $90 for an unreliable controller when an entire steamdeck costs $500.

It really paints the picture that the controllers are way over priced how can they alone be 20% the cost of the entire steamdeck.

If Nintendo made decent joycons, then I would not be using Yuzu.

Additionally, I dumped my own games and keys, so they got their money and through some effort, I got a better experience.

I’d like to add that the joycons were not heavily used either.

I've been eyeing Yuzu to play games like Pokemon Scarlet and Xenoblade 3 since they both run like shit on the switch and a smooth 60 fps at 4k on Yuzu.

I bought both games at release, I just can't stand playing at 20 fps.
Unfortunately, PS5 controllers have the same issue. Slightly cheaper, but same exact shitty parts for the joystick. Going to try aftermarket (with serviceable parts) for my next one.
Not for you since you've exited the Switch, but for anyone else with stick drift: Gulikit makes replacement hall effect joycon sticks that do not drift. Easy to replace and inexpensive.
- Just try not to get fakes that are just the normal garbage with drift
Why didn't you just get a better controller? You would have saved yourself a lot of time, effort, and probably money.
- I’m not in the US, so the options I had here were either expensive or didn’t have any reviews.
  
  I’ve been wanting a steamdeck for some time and that is what pushed me to get one.
- A lot of modern controllers are really ass tbh. I still use a wired usb xbox 360 controller. Doesn't work on Switch without modding/hacking/emulating.
Your situation is not applicable to why the lawsuit exists.

It's the idiots that pirated and leaked TOTK a week before the release date that gave Nintendo ammunition for this case. As a result, everybody who is using Yuzu legitimately will suffer for it.
- Yuzu did not pirate the game. Other people did. What did Yuzu do that was illegal?
  
  Did the movie studies sue dvd player makers because people ran pirated movies on them?
- Every hacked switch can do it too, but they aren't going against Atmosphere.

Oh shit, there's a working open source switch emulator out there? Thanks Nintendo!

Aaaaaaaand downloaded the source code, Windows Installer, and Linux installer. Thanks again Nintendo, I really can't express how thankful I am you brought attention to this!

Wanna hear something funny? It works on steam deck
- And not just works. It works REALLY WELL. I dumped my switch onto my steam deck and sold it ages ago.
- It works on Switch as well if you install linux then install it. But performance makes that not worth it
There are two that work pretty well. Yuzu and Ryujinx. A while ago some games only worked on one or the other. Thanks to open source they both improved dramatically.
Same yo. I would have never found it, now I'm downloading a game.

Any good torrent sites for switch games you know of?

If anyone or anything is facilitating piracy of Nintendo games on an enormous scale, it's the asinine anti-consumer policies of Nintendo themselves.

Mirrored it just in case something happens
1000013802

Streisand effect in action. I am never going to buy anything Nintendo, because they're a dog-shit company. I hadn't realised a Switch emulator existed. Andddd... My wife would really like to play Pikmin 4.
- Yep all you need to do is find a copy of the firmware (you actually can get the latest firmware from the internet archive) and the decryption keys (they're a little bit more difficult to find, can't remember where I got them from, but it took a long time for me to find a working download)
- There's actually two Switch emulators. Ryujinx is the other one. I've tried both and they're both solid options.
- They are up to 4 already‽ I mean I never really kept up with a game I started at the second entry and wasn't particularly good at at the time but still...
Mirrored it on Codeberg too
How do you do this? Just fork it? I don't know much about GitHub (and alternatives)
- Don't just fork it, otherwise if they take down the original repo, your fork will also go down.
  
  Download a full copy of the repo and host it yourself (on your GitHub account or GitLab, Bitbucket, etc.).
- Imported it from github into my own Forgejo instance
https://github.com/pineappleEA/pineapple-src

This is worth mirroring as well.
- Done

I wonder if they ever realise how much money they could make by releasing PC versions of their games.

Tears of the Kingdom is great, but I can't help but think how good it would look running in full 4K 60fps on a 55" OLED, with a controller that doesn't disconnect every five minutes.

As if Nintendo would actually do this. They'd do it like other Japanese developers 15 years ago: windowed 1280x720, no graphics settings, no keyboard support, no quit-to-desktop button.
- Playing Persona 5 Strikers now and I've just gotten into the habit of opening the Steam overlay and hitting Exit Game. Yes, Atlus, very cute and stylish menu animations, but please let me quit your games within 15 seconds.
- no quit-to-desktop button.
  
  When Elden Ring released a patch that added quit to desktop I was so happy. Except I never used it, Because I was so used to not having it.
- Well at least Durante will have something to fix in his spare time.
I don't need to imagine it. I own the game and it looks like crap compared to it running on yuzu on PC. 4K 60fps is the way. Can't go back.
- Any tips for eliminating the stutter, or increasing the smoothness of the emulation? I've got an i7-12700k, 4090, and 64GB of ram and it seems to struggle a bit.
Thinking about it, Nintendo is now the only company without PC versions of their games, the only one that thinks they compete with PC.
- On the contrary, I suspect they don't port their games to PC because they don't think they compete with PC.
  
  That might change with the prevalence of the Steam Deck and other gaming targeted handheld PCs.
but then nintendo wouldn't be able to shove tons of 6-7 year old hardware down our throats. (the 1st gen's processor is even older)

i literally own a switch, but getting that fucking thing to work with my display/audio setup is a pain. just to get 1080p at 30fps.

no thanks, i'd rather play it at 1440p at a more stable framerate, with a controller of my choice, with the ability to load mods.
- Going off on a slight tangent, but what display/audio setup do you have that the Switch doesn't work with? It's just HDMI, like everything else these days.
They don't care about that, they want to move their consoles, that's why they're completely exclusive.

Chances are you don't have every other platform and buy games for your Nintendo console.

Anybody can hate on them, but they know business.
with a controller that doesn't disconnect every five minutes.

Yeah the joycons are terrible but Ive never had an issue with the pro controller.
Nintendo is a toy company. They sell plastic. For the last thirty-odd years, video games have been their primary means of doing so.
- I think they started with cards. Poker and other card games. I remember that they still sell them, at least the hanafuda cards.
There’s a PC port of BOTW with unlocked frame rates, higher render distances (clouds and fog turned off) and 4K textures and it’s GLORIOUS
- PC port or emulated using Cemu or Yuzu/Ryujinx?
That would require effort...which Nintendo is not familiar with
A controller disconnecting every 5 minutes is not Nintendo like. I have never had any issues with wireless Nintendo controllers. Not on my own system or others.

Everything else is true.
- Usually I'd agree, but the Joycons are not their finest hour at all.
  
  They're just unreliable enough for me to be unable to trust them. Connected to the Switch, they're fine.

Gonna be real interesting how this plays out.

IANAL (and am not a lawyer) but the general takeaway of Sony vs Bleem was "emulation fine so long as you aren't using proprietary code". Hence why it is generally "find your own BIOS" and all that.

The nonsense about yuzu is facilitating piracy is going to be a mess. But I do wonder if Tears of the Kingdom is not going to be a problem. Because it was not at all hidden as to why Yuzu et al suddenly had a bunch of mysterious compatibility updates a day or two after the leaked roms went online.

Even the argument that the devs who worked on that had totally legit copies they got from Uncle Greg's Game Store on 2nd street might get into a mess if nintendo argues those weren't legitimately sold because they broke embargo date. And it is hard to argue those improvements were for people to play their own dumps.

So yeah. Gonna be real interesting (assuming this isn't just an attempt to legal fee yuzu to death). Because if I were to put on my day job hat: Doing ANYTHING based on pre-release material is a huge no no since they only had access to it because people violated contracts with Nintendo's distributors.

And... the more I look at this, the more I think the yuzu devs may have fucked it all up for the rest of us and it really depends on if nintendo's lawyers drill in on that or continue for the broad reaching stuff.

This is a great point and yuzu may get burned for it. Hopefully, it's not lost on developers of future emulators.
- The issue is that it is an incredibly dangerous precedent.
  
  There are already a decent number of emulators where the devs have done a good enough job making plausible deniability but it is still VERY obvious they looked at the "leaks". But if it is decided that "used a pre-release leak to develop code/support" is a no-no, then everyone knows to not do a 0-day update. But they start getting wary of doing day 1 updates because... it is still pretty obvious that they had that ready to go.
  
  Which... could even be nintendo's plan. The example I always like to use is Mass Effect PC. For those who were likely born well after that, MEPC was INCREDIBLY anticipated because we were all cool and didn't need Mass Effect because Bioware were traitors who abandoned PC but... motha fugging Mass Effect. It was one of the early activation model Securom games DRM wise. And the warez groups did a bad crack that broke like two hours in (which meant they already "won" the release and fixing it was low priority). Which led to waves of pirates (self included) rushing Best Buy because we needed it NOW.
  
  So if this makes for "okay, we can't add support for this game until a week after launch", that does wonders for sales figures. And, in a uniquely nintendo way, it avoids the ever more popular "So... this runs at like 10 FPS on the switch and 120 FPS on a potato laptop" problem.
Can we just take a second to say what utter bullshit it is that "facilitating piracy" is so allowed to be an argument?

How are we in this wacky world where rights holders get to say "what you built allows piracy, we demand total control over you"
- I mean, like it or not, piracy is incredibly dark grey (if not outright black) in the eyes of the law. Its one of the reasons there is such a strong focus on "abandonware" and "oh, this is about digital preservation" in the various circles. It doesn't fool anyone but it is at least a stronger protection than the old "Hey FBI. You aren't allowed to look at my DC++ share" folder that people had back in the day.
- You can argue that Nintendo facilitates piracy by making games that people want to pirate.
Because it was not at all hidden as to why Yuzu et al suddenly had a bunch of mysterious compatibility updates a day or two after the leaked roms went online

No way they were that stupid, Ryujinx always waits for the release date to publish those specific updates.
TIL: IANAL

Streisand effect is currently very active on this one. Thousands of news outlets, many extremely casual and geared towards average joes who never new emulation existed, are now all being told that "this thing called yuzu can play switch games for free". Nintendo is shooting themselves in the foot. Even if Yuzu dies, it will get forked and people who never knew emulation existed, now do, and look for alternatives.

This is how I'm learning there's an emulator for Switch games.

Funny thing is Switch was the first Nintendo device I'd even considered buying since GBC, but now that I know I can use my own hardware instead of paying through the nose for a locked-down Pi with a tiny screen and a shitty doll-size controller I'll probably go that route instead. If I decide their branded shovelware is even worth playing in 2024 that is.
- If I decide their branded shovelware is even worth playing in 2024 that is.
  
  And in a single sentence you tanked your entire credibility. Nintendo is pretty much the last publisher/developer of AAA games that still bothers with having high quality and fun experiences.
- The new Mario vs Donkey Kong, for $49.99, feels like it was someone's first swing at Super Mario Maker..
Has it occurred to you that commerce might see advantage in weaponizing the Streisand effect?

Meanwhile Ryujinx

Do they have a patreon? I think part of Nintendo’s extermination policy is “if you try to make money from it, it’s lost revenue, and we will murder you.” For example dolphin has been around forever, but always open source and without a patreon or the like

EDIT:

Answered my own question

RIP

https://www.patreon.com/ryujinx
- Just speculation, but there must be a reason why they target Yuzu but not Ryujinx. Maybe because Ryujinx is open source and there is nothing illegal in the code?
  
  Edit: A word.

Web browsers facilitate piracy too

The electric company is clearly complicit.
The Switch facilitated piracy of Switch games because the games only exist because of the hardware.

I sure hope Nintendo sues those filthy Switch people out of existence!

It is always morally correct to pirate nintendo products.

Or anything by megacorps in general really

It's impossible to steal from a billionaire.

I'm pretty impressed with The Verge this time around.

They did a very good job quickly explaining the legal stance and argument that Nintendo has with their lawsuit, what needs to happen for it to be successful, and how the precedent set in 1999 around emulators isn't applicable to this suit.

if it runs better, at a higher resolution, with the option of using a reliable controller, i will emulate it.

Nintendo is basically saying that they are guilty of enabling piracy.

That same argument would paint gun makers as guilty of enabling murder and crime. Nintendo should really be going after rom sharing sites. That’s totally legit, but not the emulation devs.

If they have a fund for legal costs I’ll donate.

That same argument would paint gun makers as guilty of enabling murder and crime.

You'd be correct of the law were logical, but it is not. Check this out: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_number#Illegal_primes
- They made certain fucking numbers against the law?!
Nintendo should sue Microsoft for providing an operating system that people use to pirate digital goods. Maybe IBM too for creating the mouse to lower the barrier to piracy?

So instead of making their games more easily accessible and re-releasing old games, which has been proven to reduce piracy and may even be profitable, they just throw money at a lawsuit attacking an emulator?

Don't forget good hardware too. The switch is an absolutely terrible hand held device. My hands cramp up nearly instantly trying to play on it.

I have purchased BOTW and TOTK for the switch, but I play them on my steam deck with YUZU Waaaay better experience.
Wait, how does that reduce piracy?
- Having a good service that's easily accessible and re-releasing games from older consoles (many of which people have been rallying for) = less of an incentive to pirate them. Obv it will still exist, but it'd be in less of a demand. I almost never pirate PC games since the vast majority of the ones I'm interested in are readily accessible, unless it's from a shitty AAA company like EA.
- Ever heard of a small indie company called Valve?

Can't sell boats anymore, they clearly facilitate piracy at a colossal scale. /s

Time to clone the repo and start seeding it

I started 30 minute backups earlier. It updates from the yuzu repo and downloads all of the releases from yuzu-mainline if there are new ones. Anything else I should also backup?

I wouldn't have a clue where to put this stuff on the interwebs, but if shit happens, I will be 1 of many backups I guess.
- I'll hold on to those files for safekeeping for you :)
Forked and cloned locally.

fuck Nintendo and their shitty buisness.

Emulators are not only good for preserving games, they are good for consumers - preserving their acess to games they own.

their "illegal" bullshit is just because they don't port their games to anything.

Nintendo can eat shit and learn how to port and sell their older titles as well

Nintendo give an example in their complaint with The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom saying that it was "unlawfully distributed a week and a half before its release by Nintendo" and that copies of it were "successfully downloaded from pirate websites over one million times before the game was published and made available for lawful purchase by Nintendo".

Back when I was on that shithole other link aggregation website, I said this would happen because people couldn't wait 7 more days for the public release before bragging about emulating TotK and sharing a clearly-not-legally-dumped ROM around.

I don't care what people do in their free time as long as it doesn't affect anyone else negatively, but it was hard not to see this coming because people couldn't keep their mouths shut and just enjoy the game. Now, we all might lose future updates to Yuzu if they settle or Nintendo wins the suit...

Why don't they sue PC manufacturers for producing the hardware that led to the emulator?

Why don't people sue gun manufacturers every time somebody is murdered? Or vehicle manufacturers each time an accident happens?

Suing Yuzu for piracy seems incredibly fucking stupid and nonsensical, but I'm sure the Neanderthals in the courtroom will side with Nintendo.

Why don't people sue gun manufacturers every time somebody is murdered?

Because gun makers lobbied congress to make it specifically illegal to do so. Even though unscrupulous practices by said gun lobby is responsible for probably hundreds of thousands of needless deaths.

Or vehicle manufacturers each time an accident happens?

They get sued for accidents caused by defects quite often.

Why don't they sue PC manufacturers for producing the hardware that led to the emulator?

This one is perfectly analogous to the Nintendo tomfoolery, though.

Suing Yuzu for piracy seems incredibly fucking stupid and nonsensical, but I'm sure the Neanderthals in the courtroom will side with Nintendo.

Happened with Mega and countless torrent sites so yeah, you're probably right 😮‍💨
- Why don't they sue PC manufacturers for producing the hardware that led to the emulator?
  
  This one is perfectly analogous to the Nintendo tomfoolery, though.
  
  Not really. PCs aren't purpose build to run emulators, these emulators just happen to also work on them.
  
  Emulators on the other hand are purpose build to circumvent anti piracy measures (which is illegal even for your own use), even if piracy may not be their primary intention.

knife manufacturer sued for facilitating murder

Thanks Nintendo, this shit reminded and motivated me to cancel the auto-renew for my subscription. It is done.

I'd prefer to use proprietary products but Nintendo have shit business practices and I hate them so Yuzu it is always and forever

PSF (Proprietary Software Foundation)
i prefer to use proprietary products
- Yeah I would prefer to pay Nintendo for their research development and experience. But it's all gimmicky shit and poor anti consumer business practices.

Nintendon't: sues for "facilitating piracy"

Also Nintendon't: facilitates piracy by restricting access to games people want to play

Also Nintendon't: facilitates piracy by pointing people to Yuzu

Also Nintendon't: facilitates piracy by hinting that "free" access to games might be at risk

Also Nintendon't:

1 step forward, 4 steps back!

Wow, fuck Nintendo. For well over a decade they didn't give a shit about emulating old games. In fact, it was and is still the only way to play a lot of old games. Now nintendo is trying to use their shit flimsy online emulator as an excuse to claim IP right to 30 year old games they don't give a shit about. Granted this is about the emulator itself, but doesn't matter. Guess I won't be buying the next switch console.

There's a fairly big difference between "you're making an emulator for a console we stopped selling anything for a decade ago" and "you are actively cutting into the sales of everything we are currently doing"

Frankly, Im not quite sure what anyone expected. Of course they were going to go after them harder tan usual, especially when they made it pretty obvious they used proprietary code from TOTK. I'm as pro-piracy as they come, but ya still gotta use some of your brain.

E: sp
- Eh, I don't really care. Now that every manufacturer and developer under the sun has decided I don't own the games I buy. I couldn't care less about their games getting pirated. I mean, I don't own the game anyway according to their ToS, I just rent it.
  
  But it's more than that. I can't even find old game isos easily anymore. Nintendo went out of their way to threaten legal action against sites that had been up for over a decade so they could do their shitty online emulator store.
  
  They're going after everyone now. I bought my switch in 2016, won't be buying another one.
- They didnt use any code from TOTK (such would be piracy); they did however use it to improve the emulator via game specific patches before the release date (hinting some devs got the game less than legally, but not yuzu itself)
- The precedent that almost everyone cites (because it is some of the only) is Sony vs Bleem.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!#Sony_lawsuit
  
  Initial release was in 1999 and lawsuits were around the same time. PS2 launched in 2000. So while the bleem marketing was a complete mess, the emulator existing while a console was still "alive" does not matter in the slightest.

i'm afraid that if NoA wins this, console manufacturers might start slapping DRM into their consoles, and therefore making them (legally) unemulatable and potentially discouraging development of modern console emulation.

now sure, this is a piracy sub, but i'm not sure if the yuzu devs are keen into piracy...

i also wonder if there's any way to fight back. people who dump their legal copies are being screwed as well.

@SergioFLS @ardi60
I'm really concerned about the future of digital freedom. All big corporations are doing shit with governments to regulate and control the Internet, just for profits. Consumers and end users are abused, no governments care to preserve our freedom just to preserve the business of these big corporations like Nintendo, Disney, or Apple.
How to be optimistic for the future?
- “No governments care” is an outright lie. Sure, there’s always more they could do, but the EU is at the forefront of regulating tech. And that’s a big conglomeration of countries and their respective governments.
console manufacturers might start slapping DRM into their consoles

You been living under a rock bud? That's literally the idea of a game console, it's ultimately what separates console gaming from PC gaming.

now sure, this is a piracy sub, but i'm not sure if the yuzu devs are keen into piracy...

They literally sabotage their emulator so it can't play certain games in case of leaks, they're well past that point.

i also wonder if there's any way to fight back. people who dump their legal copies are being screwed as well.

Could develop the emulators from a country that doesn't respect intellectual property rights, it works well enough for Empress, obviously it would absolutely not work out for her if she tried to do what she does in America.
console manufacturers might start slapping DRM into their consoles

... start?
Well switch already have DRM. Except circumventing DRM for archiving purpose is totally legal. This lawsuit is groundless.
- Circumventing DRM for archiving is not totally legal in all circumstances: https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/comments/9rfezi/us_copyright_office_gives_the_okay_to_circumvent/
  
  I know, it's a reddit link, but OP does a good job summarizing and providing sources.
  
  Anyway, videogames are specifically called out. Essentially, if you're circumventing DRM for emulation for games that are still current and actively supported by their publishers/devs, it is not legal. However, if you're circumventing DRM to repair/troubleshoot/diagnose your console, that's kosher (whole right-to-repair stance). So it isn't completely black and white. Yuzu devs will have a tough case ahead of them depending on what all evidence Nintendo has gathered.

brb downloading Yuzu repo

I did not know this, I will now go see if there is anything worth playing.

Good advertising! I just hope the dev gets out of this without consequences and the project lives on.
Mario + rabbids, pokemon legends, zelda:BOTW/TOTK (pick one they're both pretty similar and have their pros/cons), Mario Wonder, Mario Odyssey, Pikmin 4, Cadence of Hyrule (zelda spin-off of crypt of the necrodancer), zelda:links awakening remake, Mario rpg remake, and Bayonetta 2 (can also play on wii u emulator, 3 isn't as good)
- TOTK if you were really into nuts and bolts. Otherwise BOTW. 😛
- I've been playing Mario Wonder and Mario RPG both are great and run very well. I tried BOTW but I think the framerate was capped at 30 and I couldn't figure out how to increase it
FWIW, the Switch is a fucking amazing console. Don't let the "but it isn't as powerful as my PS5" bros convince you otherwise. There are top notch games on Switch.
- There are, that's why I am not buying another Switch (my last one bricked itself, lost all my saves), and rather using the Steam Deck
- There are some, absolutely. Strategy, jrpg, and 2D stuff especially.
  
  For 3D games with 3D physics, the lack of power is almost always a clear limitation, though. That CPU sucks ass.
You will like Mario + Rabbids

This is like a CIA Pulitzer. Nintendo could not have made a better endorsement of Yuzu's performance.

I litterly saw this and proceeded to download yuza

I don't even want to play any games on it right now I just did it as a middle finger to Nintendo

Same

I don't play any Switch games and have never used Yuzu, but I just started donating to their Patreon. Hopefully they can afford to go to court over this. Nintendo can pound sand.

Same, I just signed up. Here's the URL for anyone else interested:

https://www.patreon.com/yuzuteam

Fuck Nintendo.

Nintendo is a shady company. When somebody improves their product all they care to do is destroy it and whoever supports it.

Fuck Nintendo!

fuck me, yuzu was one of the emulators I was excited about

git clone https://github.com/yuzu-emu/yuzu.git

If the developers settle or lose the suit and have to take down the code, at least you'll still be able to compile all the old releases.
Ryujinx is a thing.

The DMCA anti-circumvention angle is scary, it's so draconian they may actually win. Even though Yuzu is open source, not many people want to paint a target on their back.

Devs have to give up, companies have limitless funding for these things while people don’t

They have anti-piracy measures in the emulator though and it’s not like it’s any more difficult to play pirated games on the Switch. So this is sad to see

I had no idea such a thing existed. I don't usually buy Nintendo stuff, but if this is free I'll probably give it a try

Yeah? Such a dick about it, Nintendo. Your platform is not special and people will run software however they please.

Emulation is legal. Emulation will remain legal. If you can't deal with it except through courtroom bullying, may devs should look into SLAPP defenses.

Hey Nintendo, Eat dick.

Time to sell my switch, i only have it because of yuzu.

Considering that the keys are not unique per console, it's kind of weird keeping the Switch around just for Yuzu. I mean you can get key dumps online and those work the same since they're all identical.

Only real reason to do it is because Yuzu devs said so, and that's not a great reason because they don't have any authority to say so, nor any way of knowing if people are actually doing that.
- Just found out about yuzu today, wasn't aware you could get the key dumps online. How can I find sources for those?
- Yuzu struggled running zelda on my pc, zo i bought a switch to play zelda again.
  
  I'd think a ryzen 7, 64gb ram and 3070 shouldn't have a problem with a switch game but i might be wrong because i don't know the specs of the switch.

Fuck Nintendo

Yuzu is open source though so can't people who don't live in the US just fork it? Copyright laws are a lot for lax outside the US.

Yeah but if the primary maintainers are in the US it'll take a bit before a new group can really work on it in a productive manner
- Yea, of course, but even if Nintendo wins the project survives that way.
Most countries mimic US laws on copyright. It doesn't help that Yuzu was in the US, but virtually no country is safe if Nintendo tries hard enough
- That is absolutely not the case. Even in the EU there are only a few countries where the copyright laws are close to that strict but none with laws as strict.

In other news, I got a DMCA email from Xfinity today. Might or might not be able a Nintendo switch game. 🤪

Get a VPN!

I pirated BotW and TotK and others

Which made my brother buy a Switch and TotK and Mario Kart and a Nintendo Online subscription and aaaa...

Piracy increases sales, goddammit. Literally free advertising.

I would also like to add that piracy does not equate to a loss in sales.

There are plenty of things I would never spend money on, but I would check/try them out of they were free.

For example, a VR headset. I will never buy one since I get dizzy too easily generally. But, if there was one that I could try for free I'd try it.

So, If im using one at a library, it does not mean that a sale was lost. It just means I find the value of this thing to be less than what you are charging for it.

Sony v Bleem ended with victory in court for Bleem, but it also ended with Bleem out of money and out of business. Nintendo doesn't have to have a legal leg to stand on to practically win, just a big pile of money which they definitely do have.

True, but if Yuzu wins then Ryujinx is probably safe. Also, Yuzu is pure software from what I'm aware. If they hold out long enough to win the case, they don't have to worry about capital for pushing physical sales

It doesn’t matter, it’s legal to create emulators and plugins for interoperability.

Yuzu cannot distribute switch games, nor distribute Nintendo software, but it can emulate the console.

Unfortunately, it's more of a gray area than most people think.

17 USC §1201 (f)(1)

Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a)(1)(A), a person who has lawfully obtained the right to use a copy of a computer program may circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a particular portion of that program for the sole purpose of identifying and analyzing those elements of the program that are necessary to achieve interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, and that have not previously been readily available to the person engaging in the circumvention, to the extent any such acts of identification and analysis do not constitute infringement under this title.

Ok, and that applies to...

17 USC §1201 (a)(1)(A)

No person shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

And a technological measure is:

17 USC §1201 (a)(3)

to “circumvent a technological measure” means to descramble a scrambled work, to decrypt an encrypted work, or otherwise to avoid, bypass, remove, deactivate, or impair a technological measure, without the authority of the copyright owner; and

Perfect! Right?

17 USC §1201 (a)(2)

No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that—

(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;

(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or

(C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person’s knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title.

And unfortunately, Yuzu is capable of and needs console keys to decrypt games and system firmware files.

The reverse engineering for interoperability exception, (f)(1), only explicitly exempts (a)(1)(A) for research purposes. If Yuzu—as a software product—is found to have the primary purpose of circumventing Nintendo's DRM, it will be in violation of (a)(2) and the developers are not protected.

This is something that will need to be tested in court, but the only way they would be entirely in the clear is if they stripped out all encryption/decryption code and forced users to use some other tool to fully decrypt the firmware, NAND filesystem, and game image filesystems during dumping. They'll likely argue that the primary purpose is preservation, and Nintendo will use the fact that the Switch is still sold in retail as a counterargument to suggest that their development of the emulator was unnecessary and not in good faith. If they instead argue that it was created as a development or debugging tool, Nintendo could point to their low barrier of entry for developers to obtain a devkit (as evidenced by the crapton of shovelware and asset flips in the E-Shop).

If they don't settle, it's going to be an expensive mess to sort out.
- Thanks for providing all that info, I was aware of some but not all of that. Is my understanding that just providing the emulator without keys correct? Besides the keys themselves and the switch OS, there’s nothing that bypasses copyright. It does seem like from the other comments here that the devs may not have kept a clean separation which will now bite them.

It was bewildering to me in the moment that when TOTK was leaked that they didn't restrict themselves from working on the emu to handle TOTK. It was some nod and wink "breath of the wild" improvements coming in all of a sudden.

Like... for real? If I were the project lead I would've banned discussion and development about it until after launch. And part of the legal filing from Nintendo is that Yuzu's own telemetry shows that Yuzu devs must be aware of piracy because they can see games being played on the emulator pre-launch. Make of that what you will.

I don't see how that is the Yuzo teams problem though, it's the same argument people use with firearms, just because the emulator can be used to emulate contribute piracy doesn't mean that it was made with the intent to. How would you recommend the Yuzo team actively block non-released games/restrict it down to only legal use? They used the telemetry data that they recieved to better improve their own platform, honestly it doesn't really matter what that data is. The issue is fully at the user who used the tool illegally, not the developers of the tool.

God I hate current copyright law, in my opinion they need to do seething similar to the legal systems "when acting as an official" law and just have them exempt from copyright/privacy suits. This happens with every emulator and it's generally used as a scare tactic to make the devs close shop.
- Woah. Imagine defending piracy and gun ownership on the same breath... and equating the two, no less. You just banned piracy in every civilized country, congratulations.
- I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me when it comes to legal cases you want as many facts stacked in your favor as possible, and as few facts stacked against your favor as is possible. Because at the end of the day some jury or judge will decide one way or another, based on facts and prejudices.

Welp, guess I'm downloading a copy of yuzu just in case.

Good luck to them. Regardless I'm sure it'll be forked if development stops.

Damn so now they gotta rename the emulator something different. Nah fuck Nintendo.

That is a pretty good name!
- Did you get the new NFN release? LOL NFN

This is the best summary I could come up with:

If you’ve ever seen a Steam Deck playing a Legend of Zelda game, chances are you were seeing the Yuzu emulator at work.

It also wants to take away its domain names, URLs, chatrooms, and social media presence; hand yuzu-emu.org over to Nintendo; and even seize and destroy its hard drives to help wipe out the emulator.

While there’s legal precedent that suggests it’s okay to reverse engineer a console and develop an emulator that uses none of the company’s source code, those cases are roughly a quarter of a century old or more — it gets trickier when we’re talking about multiple layers of modern encryption and the copyrighted BIOSes that Yuzu and other modern emulators require to run.

DMCA Section 1201(a)(2) bans products “primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access” to a copyrighted work.

“The important thing is that Nintendo is bringing the case as a DMCA circumvention claim,” says Richard Hoeg, a business attorney who hosts the Virtual Legality podcast.

Many small bands of developers have axed their projects after being approached by Nintendo, and it wouldn’t be surprising if Yuzu settled.

The original article contains 721 words, the summary contains 194 words. Saved 73%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

nintendrones are the most brainwashed corporate bootlickers I've ever encountered

Good luck to those out of touch wankers.

Time to boycott Nintendo Online and Nintendo in general for doing so many Ls as of late

Time? No one should have used Nintendo Online after they started charging for it. 365 days of the year thier games are full price, and they can't afford a free ptp online service? But ohhh wait look they added 3 new old ass games for you this month! Aww they're so cute (oh some of those games they themselves pirated? Silly scamps)
- I agree it’s a complete scam tbh esp as you’re forced to pay for cloud backup as well. I was given the membership via friends, hence why I haven’t paid it so far, though have been guilty of buying games from them but what Nintendo is doing now is honestly inexcusable at this point, despite many other times they fucked up before and haven’t done shit to solve it. Instead, criminalising those for archiving their games.

I never really wanted to pay any Switch games in general, but any one got a good source for roms?

Go to your favorite torrent site and search there.
I've heard good things about nsw2u's Google Drive links, but you have to use an adblocker..

If you're worried, torrenting might be a better option
ziperto.

Do existence of a full fledged Switch emulator implies that it could have been build with $40000/month (from yuzu paetron page) and r&d or whatever cost it took was artifically inflated🤨

It needs to work both ways then. Nintendo needs to pay for all the free advertisement that emulators provide.

Anytime I mess with an emulator and play an old game it triggers nostalgia. I then purchase new software and hardware from the company it belongs to.

This is some shady shit that Nintendo is pulling.

I totally bought stardew valley and recommened this game a bunch of times to people after "trying" it. In fact, I have bought it twice on PC, once on Switch, and on iOS.

Interesting that they're not suing Ryujinx. I wonder why.

My understanding is that Ryujinx has been a lot more cautious in general. When TotK was leaked, simply mentioning it in their discord instantly got you the pirate role (which means they won't give you any sort of support), and continuing to mention it got you a ban. Similarly they crack down hard on even the slightest mention of title keys or the like. They're very upfront that this is done solely for legal reasons, but they're also extremely thorough about cracking down on any discussions that could expose them to legal vulnerabilities.

They're more cautious in a few other ways, too. They have a patreon but you don't get any newer versions or improved features through it, just cosmetic Discord roles, whereas Yuzu offers the latest releases to Discord subscribers first.

Both of these things (Yuzu devs and moderators openly discussing how to get title keys in its discord, and the fact that they profited off the TotK leak by locking versions updated to support it better behind donations) were specifically mentioned in Nintendo's lawsuit, so it's likely that Ryujinx being more cautious around potential legal vulnerabilities is what kept them off of Nintendo's radar, at least for now.

(Of course, if Nintendo does well enough against Yuzu here they might move on to Ryujinx next - but it makes sense that they'd go after the easier target first.)
What's that?
- Another emulator. Iirc some of the code running Nintendo's own retro gaming products was pirated FROM Ryiujinx

Are people finding games playable? I tried Zelda and it was unplayable due to lag.

Depends on your hardware. For instance, the Steam Deck runs Yuzu beautifully.
- I've not tried my deck. My desktop quite a lot more powerful than the deck so I guess it's a config issue
I'm able to play the Italian plumber game, can't remember the name, on my spare six year old OnePlus 6T Android phone with a Bluetooth 8BitDo controller. my new Google Pixel crashes when I hit the jump button. it really depeyon the hardware. Also runs great on my desktop.
Which platform are you playing it on?
- Switch

https://youtube.com/watch?v=xZQXdiOdqf8

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

https://piped.video/watch?v=xZQXdiOdqf8

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
What is that? The linked article, but as a 7-minute video talk?

Here is the latest stable build of Yuzu that I've got from 24 hours ago for anyone who wasn't able to download it in time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aQsPipUrek&ab_channel=OldMan

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

https://www.piped.video/watch?v=6aQsPipUrek&ab_channel=OldMan

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

If murder were legally, I know a place less than a day away from my current locations that I'd love to visit.

Sheesh calm down there Ducky
- He travels around the world violently avenging Nintendo injustices
- At this point, there's no other way to stop things like this from happening other than murdering the rich and all their family and associates. So, no, I ain't calming down until they're 600 feet under the ground, resting in piss.

The comments section here is pretty much an echo chamber of people defending Yuzu. I'm a game dev and I think this case is more ambiguous. Emulators like Yuzu have the potential to make Switch piracy go mainstream. You don't need to hack anything, you just follow a tutorial and google "yuzu keys", suddenly you can play all Switch games for free. And people don't need to be tech-savvy to do that. Nintendo would be stupid if they would just ignore this. It doesn't help that the Tegra X1 is old, almost identical with other Nvidia chipsets and therefore easy to emulate on a PC.

Every single emulator has been like this for more than 20 years. Has it gone mainstream yet?
- That's a good point actually. I would argue that most emulators didn't get good enough during the lifetime of the console, and even Yuzu isn't there yet. But you can see the potential, and that's threatening to Nintendo's business model.
I'm a game dev and I think ur talking out your ass we get paid for working hours not for how much a game doesnt get pirated after launch
I’m a game dev and I think this case is more ambiguous

if you want job security, unionize your workplace
- I wasn't talking about job security.
They should sue Google, Microsoft and other search engine owners because they're facilitating piracy as well. They lead you to illegal software.
You don't need to hack anything, you just follow a tutorial and google "yuzu keys",

That isn't a tutorial from Yuzu's developers, however. The instructions that they give you tell you to get your prod.keys from your own Switch.

Further, how else would you do Switch emulation? I've set up a lot of emulators, and I can tell you that Yuzu is far and away more complicated than most of them.