Michigan governor says not voting for Biden over Gaza war ‘supports second Trump term’

This is a primary. Voting for Biden won't make it less likely that Trump will be elected.

It’s a fucking primary

I don’t know why people don’t get this.

Since 2000 progressives have been told to vote for who you want in the primary and then hold your nose in the general.

Now we’re supposed to hold our nose in the primary, too?!

I don’t have enough clothespins for this bullshit.

I'm not trying to defend the "pro genocide" thing at all, although I'm expecting to be down voted regardless, but...

Isn't support for Israel over Gaza an American / western thing rather than specifically Biden?

Like is it reasonably possible to have a POTUS that wouldn't support Israel?

I guess they could be more overt in their condemnation of Israel's behaviour, but I'm not sure how meaningful that is.

you're pro genocide

It's so infuriating how difficult it is for people to understand this

He's good friends with and likely has donations from Netanyahu. And all Trump and the GOP have to do (as usual) is sit back and watch the left fight and destroy itself while the gop sit back and win.

Democrats are so damn stupid. Not a single one of your candidates and potential presidents is against Israel, none, so why make it an issue for this election?

It's a primary. If Democratic leadership has moved on from telling people that they have to get behind the nominee in the general election, to now telling people that that can't even vote against the candidate the elites have selected in a primary, they are effectively working for Trump, and tanking the election.

It doesn't look like Gaza will survive til election day, so none of this can be put on Trump.

You can say that all you want, but currently RIGHT NOW a democrat is furthering and furthering the genocide and murder of Palestinians. Trump IS NOT DOING THIS. Maybe he will, probably. BUT I KNOW FOR A GOD DAMNED FACT BIDEN DOESNT CARE.

Quit telling me I’m letting democracy die while we have a democrat doing conservative politics in the whitehouse.

You’re letting democracy die by capitulating to the two party system that doesn’t represent you.

Agreed. But I would also point out that the left fails by failing to get out their vote which is what happens when they have a candidate they don't like (cf Hillary) and supporting Genocide is not a way to win left votes. A Trump win is worse. What a shit sandwich

And as we've seen with his decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem, his position is even more extreme. Everyone who has paid any attention to his position on such matter should be able to figure out what his response to the current conflict would be. He for sure wouldn't even try to reign Netanyahu in but actively encourage further brutalities. That's exactly the "strong man" bullshit Trump adores.

So even if you really dislike Biden's handling of this whole shit show, you better believe that Trump would be even worse. And that's just the foreign politics part of the Middle East, we all know what harm Trump wants to cause to the US itself.

It effectively proves to Democrats that if they support Genocide like Republicans they will never win.

If Democrats want to bend over backwards to appeal to a small minority of AIPAC voters, they will lose all their other voters.

Every time people are saying they will vote third party in the general, I argue that it's important to vote for the best viable candidate, and the time to vote against a Democrat they don't like is in the primaries. When people start saying no, you can't even vote against the party leadership's chosen candidate in a primary, what do you think they're going to do? BS antidemocratic rhetoric like that is exactly what is most likely to get us another Trump presidency. We start down that road and we can kiss democracy goodbye for good.

If we can't even support the candidate of our choice in a fucking primary then democracy is actually dead. Shaming voters in the general is one thing, but doing so in a primary is dickish to the extreme. It's attitudes like this that will actually help Trump. Who the fuck wants to get in line for a party that doesn't give a rat's ass what you think?

This is in the primary. Voting uncommitted isn't going to hurt Biden's chance on the general. For that reason, this is one where I support a protest vote as it does nothing to the general in of by itself. If the youth and Muslims actually voted uncommitted, that'd be a good gauge on how much people dislike seeing Israel supported over their action. I would vote uncommitted if I was in Michigan because of Israel's support toward settlers, and lack of belief toward their civilian to military casualty ratio because of the questionable definition of soldier being 18+ males.

I was told that if I didn't support Biden sending tanks into Gaza, that I was a tankie.

You have to put pressure on Biden because it could make a difference. There would be no convincing Trump. Israel has utterly failed this challenge. Netanyahu has proven himself beyond any reasonable doubt to be a criminal.

That’s the joy of continuing with democracy in the US. Biden and ‘the Left’ won’t attempt to curtail your speech or throw you in jail. The other guys… not so much.

LOL

Real talk now. You will stop speaking about the so called so called "Genocide in Gaza" as soon as you're distracted by memes making you upset about something else.

Yahya Sinwar will be dead soon enough, and there will be a ceasefire in exchange for the remaining hostages. In a few months there won't be any more civilian casualties in your social media feeds and the memes will tell you that Dark Brandon made Israel accept the ceasefire. You will love the Dark Brandon because of the memes. A few weeks after that the memes and Tik Toks will be making you upset over Trump and you will have forgotten all about the Palestinians. Just like how you never cared about the Ethiopian civil war or any other conflict in the world unless the memes tell you you're supposed to.

No. It's not on the voters to show up no matter what. It's on the politicians to be someone we want to vote for. We already did "vote blue no matter who and pressure them for change later." And now we're funding a genocide. That's over. Now it's pressure time.

More objectively correct take:

Thanks to the political-parties highjacking governing-the-country,

they can commit any crime or abomination, whatsoever, and you only can choose between them, because the rigged-system won't permit anyone to have any alternative to what the incumbent political-parties offer.

There: fixed it for you.

Zionism can be equated to fascism. Biden has stated multiple times that he is a Zionist. Neo-liberal fascists are already in power and they are destroying the left. you are saying do your duty at the ballot by saying vote this way or you are wasting a vote (that doesn't actually count anyway because the pop vote doesn't decide the presidency). I will do my duty by not partaking in sham elections for a two party state that I don't have any faith in whatsoever to deliver anything they promise. Because they have no obligation to fulfill anything they say they will do to get into office. That in itself is protest so I am doing the real changes, as you say.

I feel like this is just another division tactic to split the vote to favor Republicans.

I have friends who were rabidly for Democrats and their agenda for decades, decrying single issue conservative voters, now acting the same way toward Biden over Gaza as if he single handedly orchestrated this and didn't inherit years of foreign policy.

I fucking hate what's happening there and don't want to support it in any way, but my vote doesn't change what's already established and the alternative is so much worse.

I keep asking for a viable alternative and all I get is vote third party or stay home which solves exactly nothing.

This right here. It "conveniently" gets forgotten about during every conversation regarding Biden's stance on Israel. Ask Trump what he thinks of Israel, ask Obama, Clinton, Bush, Carter, Reagan's ghost, Nixon's ghost, Ford's ghost. They've literally all been pro-Israel since 1948.

Yeah but the statement Biden supporting Israel supports second trump term is true as well and anyone with half a brain would see it as obvious. Who do you think is more vested in winning the election?

“Elephant shit more than bears shit.” Is technically true. But you’re still talking about shit.

We have a right- and indeed an obligation- to call out our president’s bullshit. Just because one hypothetical is worse than another, doesn’t mean that Biden and most the rest of the DNC supoorting genocide is okay.

“Well it could be worse” is a cop out.

Democrats don't pick their candidates, the wealthy donors and senior members do. Which is why we always end up with a centrist and empty promises. Money in politics is a cancer.

Support for Palestinians is not even close to being a majority opinion among Demcratic voters. Most Dems that are gen X and boomers tend to (broadly) support Israel, while support for Palestinians is strongest amongst zoomers and younger millennials.

Yes, and until we get it, we must vote for the least fascist of the to two candidates.

This isn't a "implement a progressive agenda" though, it's a "be less genocidal" and it's specifically about the actions of the president. He's been supporting Israel unilaterally without needing Congressional approval. More AOCs isn't going to fix that.

We need to focus on smaller races in house and build up from there

The party steps in to protect centrist incumbents against progressive challengers.

This is the answer. If Bernie actually had a base around the country he may have won in 2016. The number of people unfamiliar with Politics that were shocked that established Democrats didn't care for a guy who isn't a party member coming into it to try to win the nomination is downright laughable. If he stayed a Democrat and helped support like-minded candidates around the country, maybe he would have had a better shot in 2020. His heart was in the right place, but I think his strategy and feasibility planning was awful.

We need to focus on smaller races in house and build up from there.

I heard this back in 2008. But the next eight years was nothing but losses, in large part because the national party kept kneecapping grass roots organizations.

From ACORN to Code Pink, left activists were targeted and dismantled from within the liberal party.

By the time Trump won in 2016, Dems had castrated themselves across the entire Midwest and were losing in record numbers.

How do you organize under that kind of leadership?

Dems need to stop shoving candidates down peoples throats -- this is how a lot of people felt with Hillary.

So things like donnie are the fault of the Democratic Party?

There is a non-zero chance that some "pro-Palestine" rallies are orchestrated by right-wing bad actors that are trying to convince centrists and leftists to not vote because of "gEnOcIdE jOe!" Even though there really is no nuance to the Israel/Palestine conflict any longer, somehow conservatives made preserving human life a political statement.