10mo ago

Fifty-nine percent of Americans think Biden and Trump too old for another term

abcnews.go.com Overwhelming majority of Americans think Biden is too old for another term: POLL

Most Americans (86%) think President Joe Biden is too old to serve another term as president, according to a new ABC News/Ipsos poll.

e; I wrote a better headline than the ABC editors decided to and excerpted a bit more

According to the poll, conducted using Ipsos' Knowledge Panel, 86% of Americans think Biden, 81, is too old to serve another term as president. That figure includes 59% of Americans who think both he and former President Donald Trump, the Republican front-runner, are too old and 27% who think only Biden is too old.
Sixty-two percent of Americans think Trump, who is 77, is too old to serve as president. There is a large difference in how partisans view their respective nominees -- 73% of Democrats think Biden is too old to serve but only 35% of Republicans think Trump is too old to serve. Ninety-one percent of independents think Biden is too old to serve, and 71% say the same about Trump.
Concerns about both candidates' ages have increased since September when an ABC News/Washington Post poll found that 74% of Americans thought Biden -- the oldest commander in chief in U.S. history -- was too old to serve another term as president, and 49% said the same about Trump.

Archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20240214133801/https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/poll-americans-on-biden-age/story?id=107126589

Part that drew my eye,

The poll also comes days after the Senate failed to advance a bipartisan foreign aid bill with major new border provisions.
Americans find there is blame to go around on Congress' failure to pass legislation intended to decrease the number of illegal crossings at the U.S.-Mexico border -- with about the same number blaming the Republicans in Congress (53%), the Democrats (51%) and Biden (49%). Fewer, 39%, blame Trump.
More Americans trust that Trump would do a better job of handling immigration and the situation at the border than Biden -- 44%-26% -- according to the poll.

So that bipartisan border bill stunt was terrible policy, and it doesn't seem to have done anything for the Democratic party politically

Can we please stop trying to compromise with fascists now?

300 comments

We have a minimum age to become president, 35, so if that doesn't qualify as "age discrimination" then a maximum age limit shouldn't either.
65 should be the max, you get 30 years to try for the presidency then you're forced to retire.
And honestly that should be the maximum age for any elected official, not just the president.
- In America age discrimination is only illegal once you're 40 years old...
  If you're 39 and 11 months, you can be denied a senior position for being too young, even if you have 20 years experience
  Because old people write our laws, and they don't see a problem with telling a middle aged adult that they're too young.
  If only one out of two groups have protection, it's not equaly opportunity, it's legislated discrimination.
  It's insane because republicans constantly complain about valid equal opportunity, but never mention the one that's actually discriminatory.
  It's especially insane when we have to pretend like an 81 year old magically is immune to scientifically proven medical facts
- It is age discrimination but it's legal because it's built-in to the Constitution. Not joking, the "founders" decided that there was a such thing as too young but not too old.
  
  I think the founders made a lot of decisions based on the assumption that voters would vote in their own interests. This would preclude, for example, voting for insurrectionists, criminals, or corrupt power brokers.
  
  People back then had an average lifespan of 39-56. A 70 year-old in 1780 would be exceptional.
- Why 65? It seems like many people nowadays are totally coherent at that age. I don't even think of 65 as old as this point. I can't think of any other occupation that's forced to retire then.
  
  Research shows that the majority of people have some level of cognitive impairment by 70. Just because you may not notice it in some people doesn't mean it's not there.
  
  If nothing else, a maximum age would give younger generations a better chance to have some power. We've been ruled by boomers for far too long.
  
  Because you want a person for president who's seasoned through and through, but not so damned season he won't try something new.
  
  Retirement age. They can go do their speaking engagements, book deals, and paint Scottish terriers until they die but they should not hold public office and make decisions that matter to future generations.
  
  I think it's because by the end of the second term they'd be 72-73.

I literally don't care if they Weekend at Bernies Biden, I will vote for him happily if the alternative is Trump.
- Biden could drop out and they could nominate a literal piece of driftwood covered in seagull shit, and I would vote for the driftwood if it were between that and Trump.
  
  This might be the enlightened libertarian in me talking now, but I believe said driftwood would also be superior to Biden.
- Yup. Gladly and without a doubt or second thought.
- Also.
- Pretty much

Anything with eyes would say they are old. Yes, a 2-party system is broken in the modern world. Still Biden/ Harris as president is better then Putin's cuddle buddy.
- Yes, a 2-party system is broken in the modern world.
  I would love to have a 2-party system. But we have closer to a constellation of one party systems. Red States and Blue States, with a smattering of battlegrounds.
  Between Winner-Take-All districts and the Electoral College, there's very little incentive to participate in an election in a municipality or state that's overwhelmingly one team or the other. And even when you do participate, you're limited to... what? People blowing up your phone and email with donation requests? A few months of block walking for a local candidate who you get to meet maybe twice and who barely knows your name? Running around bothering your friends a week before voting day not to sleep through this one? Getting drunk at a campaign event on election night, only to be dropped like a bad habit in the morning?
  The parties themselves aren't really political entities. They're more like boosters for professional athletics teams or celebrity tours that you're expected to cheer for but never really interact with. They don't do anything outside of an election season. They don't provide any kind of constituent service or artery to the leadership themselves.
  This consumerist politics is genuinely very different from the kind of organizing and activism that takes place throughout the rest of the democratic world. If it feels like Biden and Trump are just kinda being foisted on us by a cartel of party insiders, there's a good reason for it.
  
  I was under the impression that even in other countries, activism is generally separate from the political parties and it's more like activist groups putting pressure on candidates and organizing for them if they are more favorable, and sometimes getting something in return.
  I've seen exceptions, but I gather they are rare (and we can already see some change as the party is under pressure to become more "normal" and "competitive").
- And a president isn't just the presidency, it also sets tons of agency heads and tons of judicial appointments including potential Supreme Court nominations. It's a major mistake to think of a presidential vote as a vote for one person, it's for tons of incredibly important positions that the president decides.
  
  Even if that's true, wouldn't a younger person be better equipped to appoint and oversee those positions?
- You don't have to pick any of the 2.
  
  Go away RFK jr., no one is buying you as a candidate. Fucking lurking around here!

Well, too bad. Those are the only two viable options, so most likely it's going to be one or the other. The time to do something about it has long passed. All we can do is hope Trump is jailed or either of them die.
- Best government ever created by man, right there
- There was NEVER anything any of us could do. The moment Biden announced he would run for reelection, everyone who mattered fell in line.
  
  As it should be. Anything else would have been giving the GOP a golden ticket for their golden turd
- All we can do is hope Trump is jailed
  Nothing in the Constitution bars Trump from holding the Office of the President while in a super max prison.
  Absolutely nothing.
  
  Maybe, but good luck doing it from there.
  I think congress would have to make a ruling on that and I doubt they would say that he could be president in prison.
- The democratic primary has hardly started, its literally exactly the time to do something.
  
  That's not how that works. Even if we somehow managed to bypass filing deadlines up get this theoretical candidate on the ballot (that have likely already been printed, and in many cases mailed out), they don't really have time to get their message out and persuade voters. You don't just start running for president 3 weeks from super Tuesday.
  The only way Biden isn't the democratic nominee is if he steps down or is really incapable. And then it's pretty much guaranteed to be Harris. I don't think most people want that.
  If democrats wanted a different candidate, they needed to start like 6 months ago minimum.
- Democrats 2024: Well, too bad.
  
  Yeah it sucks, but I'd vote for a ham sandwich over Trump.
- Is ~~Truck~~ Trump actually able to run for president?
  Edit: typo.
  
  No, but he'll be allowed to anyways

73% of Democrats think Biden is too old to serve but only 35% of Republicans think Trump is too old to serve. Ninety-one percent of independents think Biden is too old to serve, and 71% say the same about Trump.
This is one of the really interesting takeaways. People are looking at Biden's gaffes--and he has always made verbals gaffes throughout his career as a politician--and saying that it's a sign that he's too old. Meanwhile, Trump, who trails Biden by a mere four years of age, is viewed as energetic and mentally sharp by Republicans. So essentially, Dems are pretty realistic in their assessment of both candidate's ages, while Republicans are only realistic about Biden.
Also - forcing the Senate to vote against their own compromise bill, a bill they'd worked on for months, was a fantastic bit of hilarity. They know that they're not going to be able to get a better bill under Trump--because the majority in the Senate would still shoot down their worst tendencies--but they couldn't risk bucking Trump. So they undid all their own work. ::chef kiss::
- .
  
  You can tell because they made the argument 4 years ago that Biden was too old to serve at 77.
  
  I would not take that bet at any odds
- You've basically just touched on how conservatives operate. It's never actually about any sort of philosophy, it has always been about control and projecting insecurities on the world.
- That is cause the other 65% think Trump is too crazy to serve
  Haha, a man can dream ...
  
  There are a fair number of Republicans that still think that Trump is a bridge too far. My parents, for instance; they've been reliable Republicans since, shit, Nixon?, and since 2016 they've been largely voting Democratic. Especially because all the people running as Republicans in their state are bitshit crazy MAGA-cultists. But if they could vote for a Jeb Bush, or a Mittens Romney, they would absolutely do it. I'm pretty sure that they'd vote for Nikki Haley, even though she's probably more conservative than Trump, because she's better at hiding how much pandering she does to the extreme right wing, and has some tact and decorum. (And, to be fair, Haley is consistently conservative, for the most part. Trump et al. are not; they're far-right populists, not necessarily conservative in all or even most of their actions.)

I'll vote for someone other than Biden when there's someone else to vote for.
- Which won't happen unless we call out the people who voted for him in the 2020 primaries. They made a selfish and foolish decision.
  
  It actually won't happen until there's real grassroots support and people working locally to get people elected. Lots of people just come out once every 4 years and wonder why nothing is changing.

But he's too old!
But her emails!
COMEON!
- Anything goes just so they can win and sit back like Thanos after infinity war, smiling at the sun rise.
- Genocide.

Sadly in this cycle even the declared independent and third party candidates are beyond mediocre so far as well. Stupidest election of my lifetime (and I was born when LBJ was Pres).
- It doesn't matter.
  Even if the third party candidate was literally the best candidate possible in the eyes of every American - they still wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell at getting elected under a first past the post system.
  We must enact and enforce a ranked choice voting system nationally, otherwise it will always come back to red vs blue, and a third party vote is electoral masturbation.
  
  Yes, ranked choice voting is an absolute must to happen first, if we want to see any meaningful change to the better in our electoral system.
- That's some perspective considering you lived through both Nixon and Reagan.

You're not voting for only Trump or Biden. What you're also voting for is the people they bring in as admin.
- Who cares? We shouldn't have the choices on the ballot being both choices that the majority of Americans don't want
  
  While you're right that the options are shit, I'm just pointing out that the background people will be more different than the presidents themselves.

But it doesn't matter because those are the choices
- 🦅 F R E E D O M 🇺🇸
- It really does matter. The implication is that the system is obviously broken because no one likes either choice.
  
  It doesn't matter until it's fixed.
- If we can't have a conversation about why we're in this position we will continue to be in this position.
  
  amen

Age is more than a number. Some people are very sharp at 80. Some are rapidly deteriorating at 60.
This is the point I wish everyone would remember when they're discussing this issue. It's not the age, but the 'wear and tear' that matters.
Some people age more gracefully than others, and we truly do want to have our elders wisdom, especially during trying times.
Having said all that, my personal opinion on all of this is that Biden seems to have cognitively/physically worn down past the level required for the decision-making/stresses of the office of the Presidency.
If he wants to have a third party doctor give him a cognizant test, and he passes it, and he publicly notifies all of us voters of that, then I would be up for voting for him again.
But judging based on the very little I'm allowed to see, as a voter, based on how few public news conferences that he does, and having seen him faltering in some of those, it truly does seem like it's time for him to move on.
Also IMO, Trump is a semen stain on the soul of America, and he quite literally is a test to see if America is America, or not. If we reaffirm our leader as someone who, as a 'wolf in sheeps clothing', is a very immoral and unethical grifter, then we are lost. All of us.
Not that it's going to happen, but both parties should be putting someone else up as their candidates for the presidency of the United States of America in 2024.
- Having said all that, my personal opinion on all of this is that Biden seems to have cognitively/physically worn down past the level required for the decision-making/stresses of the office of the Presidency
  If JFK and Reagan could do it with all their health problems I think Biden will be fine. It's not ideal, but the staffers of the White House and Pentagon can hold things together for a while if needbe, and I will take that over a Republican administration any day.
- It's a fact that the chance of an incumbent has a higher chance of winning a reelection. So, I understand why we are going with Biden. Even Biden said he was only going to run once. But this isn't just some random election. This will likely determine if America is going to exist past 2024
  
  Even Biden said he was only going to run once.
  I don't think Biden ever said that he would run only once. The news was that a few anonymous sources who were supposedly close to the Biden campaign said that he would not run for re-election and his campaign then denied that.
  https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/474059-biden-campaign-denies-one-term-report/
- If he wants to have a third party doctor give him a cognizant test, and he passes it, and he publicly notifies all of us voters of that, then I would be up for voting for him again.
  Except for the fact that it's generally military physicians who treat the President, he gets a cognitive test every year as part of his physical. Trump got one every year too, and was as proud as a toddler with a gold star sticker when he "passed" it. The white house releases the results of the President's annual exam and, presuming you do not distrust the doctor, it is what it is.
  Nobody is going to be administering some mental agility test on the President any more than they'll be asking him to complete and pass the ACFT (Army Combat Fitness Test).
  (IMO he should have stepped aside last year and let Kamala Harris take over as President to give her a chance to make her own case for re-election, making way for the next generation to lead.)
  
  Kamala Harris probably has less chances than Hilary unfortunately. Remember whoever the Dems choose have to beat Trump. And the election cycle is sort of repeating what happened in 2016.
  Nobody thought Trump had any chances. At the start of this election cycle DeSantis was beating Trump in polls. People thought Trump was done for. Then what happens? Trump is constantly on the news, just like in 2016. Then he dominates the GOP primary, just like in 2016.
  The only candidate that has any chance to beat Trump is another populist candidate. Someone like Bernie but more aggressive and controversial.
  Biden only won because he was the VP for Obama who was a popular president (relative to modern presidents). He was a great public speaker and was the last real "presidential" president we've had. A coherent and articulate speaker.
  Kamala Harris simply would not inherit any meaningful public opinion from Biden. It would be the opposite - she would have to start from a worse position.
  Biden is less popular than Trump. Both current popularity and if we go back to Trump'a popularity at the same time during his presidency. If the election was held today, Trump would win with a strong margin - according to the polls.

Well, who do y'all think can beat trump, because that's who's running in 4 years regardless of this election's outcome.
- Any Democratic candidate with a pulse, and tbh we could probably get voters to moderate their expectations on both of those points if we had to
  60% of the country has grown to hate and fear Trump just as much as 40% of it adores him
  
  I meant my question literally. If Biden wins 2024, Kamala 2028 feels like a bad decision. If it goes the other way, there's a non-zero chance the Dems are running against trump3, or a trump-like that beats him in the gop primaries, or both.
  Whoever the Dems field in 2028 has to start making a name for themselves sooner rather than later, and I'm mostly disappointed the Dems aren't using the primaries as a way to show off that candidate.
  
  The 60/40 split is just untrue. And it's untrue in a meaningful way. The favorability/unfavorability split is closer to 52/43 leaving 5% in afuzzy place. Without attuning to the needs and concerns of this 5%, a false sense of certainty can emerge leading to being surprised when things don't go the obvious way.
  Subsequently, people lean in to the only thing left to do, cantankerous online debate with people who just don't get it.
  These favorability polls don't mean as much as giving the people who matter a story to pull that lever for your candidate. And the people that matter are the undecided in swing states. Without meeting and talking to these people, we don't know what's important for them.
  
  Polls consistently show that Biden does the best against trump compared to any other Democrat. Why so many people have deluded themselves into believing that Biden is the worst bet against trump will never cease to baffle me.
- Boy did I love this argument in 2016
  
  I'm not making an argument, I'm quite plainly asking for names, because the reality is that now is the time for whoever that is to start building a base. 2016 taught us that pure fucking charisma is enough to win an election, and that's what the GOP is going to bank on from now until eternity since it worked for them once.
  (And for anyone doubting Trump's charisma, remember that a Sibriex has 25 CHA https://www.aidedd.org/dnd/monstres.php?vo=sibriex)

The bothsiderist media is happy to let a fascist slide into office all while acting like they just have to harp on Biden's age.
Suppose Biden becomes unable to do the job. So what? There are plenty of capable people are him, and Harris will just assume the office. Big deal; not much changes.
But if tiny d gets into office...he's been promising to be the con movement's "vengeance" and promising to be a dictator (but only for a day, yeah right).
- Depends on what you mean by the "media" because I'll agree there are a lot of shitheel columnists and hack journalists out there, but I think there are a lot of very good ones too who are trying hard to do a very difficult job in a difficult historical moment, and I think they wouldn't be doing their jobs properly if they didn't talk about Biden's age because it's an obvious potential issue.
  That all said, I agree with your second paragraph and strongly agree with the third.
- But if tiny d gets into office…he’s been promising to be the con movement’s “vengeance” and promising to be a dictator (but only for a day, yeah right).
  In that case the Democrats better put up somebody else besides Biden to vote for, so we don't go there.
  https://lemmy.world/comment/7576723

What is the population percentage of boomers, around 40%, per chance?
- About ~20%
  https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the-us-by-sex-and-age/
  
  20% of population got 100% of presidents. Fucking iron throne.

59% of Americans should have been paying attention a year ago when something could have been done about it. The choice is made now, so accept the reality and choose one (preferably the one who is not a convicted sex offender with 93 felony indictments).
- 59% of Americans should have been paying attention a year ago when something could have been done about it.
  What thing? The Democrats basically didn't have a primary. All the potential internal rivals to Biden bowed out.
  The Republicans had a conga-line of sacrificial lambs. I even saw a few spicy Op-Eds suggesting that a true anti-Trump Democrat should be actively campaigning for Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley. But... Trump's a fucking hog. He's got every AM radio and Evangelical Church repping him. What were "59% of Americans" who'd been otherwise alienated from the political process supposed to do? Build an entirely new party from first principles and put... idfk... Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk on the top?
  
  If the parties had been pushed hard enough for other options, they would have followed suit. The fact of the matter is that Trump and Biden beat everyone in the primaries. Biden won a primary where he wasn't even on the ballot. Nikki Haley lost a ballot to "none of the above. The majority got the candidates they want. We are the minority.
  
  What were "59% of Americans" who'd been otherwise alienated from the political process supposed to do? Build an entirely new party from first principles and put... idfk... Mark Zuckerberg or Elon Musk on the top?
  Jesus is that the 59% you think are alienated?

I would vote for VP Kamala Harris to be POTUS before any of them others.
So Biden it is. The "Eisenhower Box" bends to No Hitler.
- "I'm not a Hitler!" Screams the politician
  "That's probably exactly what a Hitler would say!" - Americans treating politics like a game of Werewolf.
- Where I'm at is that we vote for Biden, he survives 2 years and 1 day into his next term, then we get 10 years of President Harris.
  
  Yikes. The only way Harris gets in office is if Biden leaves office early. There's no way she'd win an open contest. Now maybe the machinery of the party could weasel another two terms of unpopular leadership, and maybe the Republicans just keep becoming more crazy and unelectable, so it could actually happen, but it's in not exactly a scenario to look forward to.

Isn't this why you have the VP running mates? You vote for them just as much.
- Isn’t this why you have the VP running mates? You vote for them just as much.
  VPs are chosen for 'helping to win an election' reasons, not processional/competency reasons.
  They're usually chosen to pull in very specific groups of voters/states to 'shore up' what the president can't pull in on his or her own.
  
  Surely that is not what the job is supposed to be though.
- this is certainly why you have primaries. not participating in the primaries is like saying "I don't care" when someone asks you what restaurant you want to go to then complaining about the menu selection when you get there.
  
  "So, do you want dog food or do you want someone to shit in your mouth? No, the Mexican place closed. No, the Italian place closed. No, the Chinese place closed too. ... Dog food it is then!" - Democratic primary 2024

If 59% think that they are both too old and 62% think that Trump is too old (regardless of Biden), does that mean that 3% think that Trump is too old but Biden isn't too old, despite the objective fact that Biden is 4 years older than Trump?
- Age is more than a number. Some people are very sharp at 80. Some are rapidly deteriorating at 60.
  
  Nobody is very sharp at 80. What kind of bullshit is this? Would you get in the plane knowing the pilot and copilot were 80+ years old?

You have to convince the RNC/DNC but Boomers' last grasp at controlling the world won't let them give it up.

Well too late to do anything about it for this election

100% of this Canadian thinks so too

The 41% of Americans who don't think Biden and Trump are too old for this bullshit, are probably beyond elderly themselves.

assuming an even split between republicans who think they're both too old and democrats who think they're both too old, roughly 30% of the population voting would be enough to sway either party's nomination process should these people decide to.
- If they all agreed on a single candidate, which is where it gets difficult

And yet nobody is willing to call out the selfish pieces of shit who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries. They are dragging all of us down with them.
- Literally.
- I mean, I've made telling moderate Dems how their crappy candidates are blowing elections for us at a time when we really can't afford to be empowering Republicans a personal crusade since at least 2016, but I'll admit I've had some pretty limited success with that effort

68% of russians say they do not want to see president older than 70 years old. Putin is 71.

What does it matter? Since one of them will serve another term unless Republicans decide to vote for Nikki Haley?

Not until it's too late. Just like in Germany.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/24/donald-trump-cpac-speech
Wow, was this a joke too?

Blue, no matter who.
- this is why 3rd parties don't exist. people pick colors instead of people
  
  Most people who are blue no matter who would gladly vote for 3rd parties if they were at all feasible. Republicans don't care who they're voting for as long as they have an R. If third parties enter the mix, only the left gets hurt
  
  No it isn't. It's a natural extension of our election mechanics.
  here's a good video: https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo?si=3eRKyXexwk4TDd6n
  
  Give me a 3rd party candidate that is worth my vote and I’ll gladly vote for him/her/them. But not during a time when we’re facing the complete and total destruction of democracy as we know it if we don’t show up and support the one person that has a chance at giving us another 4 years to fight.
  This is NOT the time to play with 3rd party options.
  
  I’d hear you — but the alternative is a fucking yikes my guy.
  Things are getting a little wild down here in Florida with no signs of slowing down.
  
  Well yeah, if we don't have something like ranked choice voting tf you think we should do? Let fascists win?
- No, but also yes?
  I'd vote for a progressive Republican. As if that's ever going to happen.
  
  That's an oxymoron.
  
  Don't tempt the fates. You will get this, but everything else will be worse.
  Trust me. Don't temp the fates.
  
  I mean, blue no matter who doesn't really mean forever.
  Where things stand, there is no scenario where Republicans will ever do a better job than Democrats. Voting progressive needs to happen during primaries.

98% of poll takers won’t do a goddamn thing about it. Even though that’s all it takes to get someone else elected.

A useless poll. Both are on their tickets and will stay that way. Hey, I'd like to have a pony too ..
- There can be hope that they get the message for 2028 at least...

Politicians are getting older because young people don't vote, while old people tend to be the most active voters. Young people need to be more politically active.
- I'd be curious to look back in time and see if historical politicians retired or stayed until death.
  If the latter, the sole reason we see it differently today is substantially increased lifespan.
  I honestly don't know the answer to my curiosity.
  
  Other countries, especially those in Europe, have way younger politicians on average than in the US, even though Europe has faster ageing population than Americans. It's just that American youths are apathetic. I'm sorry to say this but we young people whine but don't actually do anything. You don't like the candidates running from both parties? Mobilise and start a grassroots campaign to present viable alternatives who are not from either Democratic or Republican parties. It's not like there were no third party that were elected before in local elections. Majority of Americans actually identify as independent, but are silenced by the noisy partisan sides. People only lack political will.

300 comments

🦅 F R E E D O M 🇺🇸