11mo ago

Paris votes on SUVs: voters back proposal to triple parking fees for SUV drivers

www.lemonde.fr Paris votes on SUVs: voters back proposal to triple parking fees for SUV drivers

The French capital's mayor hailed a 'clear choice of Parisians' in favor of a measure that is 'good for our health and good for the planet.'

The measure to make vehicles weighing 1.6 tons and over pay 3x the parking rates for the first two hours has passed in Paris.

Now, let's get that in place for London and many other other places to help slow, and even reverse, this trend towards massive personal vehicles.

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Paris votes on SUVs: voters back proposal to triple parking fees for SUV drivers

www.lemonde.fr /en/france/article/2024/02/04/paris-votes-on-suvs-voters-back-proposal-to-triple-parking-fees-for-suv-drivers_6493516_7.html

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I might be wrong but most people who live and work in Paris don't drive. They have great public transit and there's a huge walking culture. When I was in Paris the only large vehicles I saw where taxis.
- Your impression seems correct. I haven't manged to get to Paris yet, but the numbers I found align with your experiences. From a transport in Paris article:
  "Paris has one of the most sustainable transportation systems in the world (private cars are only 12% of the overall traffic)"
  "According to a 2018 INSEE survey, a majority of Parisians (64.3 percent) use public transport to get to work. Only 10.6 percent commuted to work by automobile. 10.5 percent walked or used roller skates; 5.5 percent commuted by bicycle; and 4.4 percent commuted by motorbike"
  The local residents use public transit or walk/bike for work. They likely do exactly the same for daily errands, shopping, and entertainment. That's how it was in Berlin, London, and Helsinki when I was in those cities and it's wonderful.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_in_Paris

Fuck cars but especially fuck SUVs
- But also fuck those pickup truck monstrosities.
  
  Aren't those classed as SUVs? Is there a pickup truck class?

TLDR: driving giant SUVs is ok as long as you're rich.
- This is both not enough and better than nothing.
  
  I'm all for taxing the rich more, it's not ultimately my final goal but it's something.
  
  It's a good first step. The second one, of course, being
  .
- If nothing else, its making the "Pro-Driving Big Things Just Because I Can" people mad and I'm all for it.
- Are you against any sort of tax for oversized vehicles? Do you also believe that congestion pricing "hurts poor people"?
  Also, giant SUVs are only accessible to the rich anyways. No poor person is driving around an Audi Q8 or a Cadillac Escalade, they take the train.
  
  When giant SUVs are only accessible to the rich anyways, then the whole premise of tripling parking fees is meaningless to begin with. And yes, I'm against the idea of trying to solve the problem using a tax because it's a performative measure that accomplishes nothing of real value while distracting from real solutions. I believe this accomplishes about as much as carbon taxes.
- No one drives in Paris who's not already rich, the public transportation there is great
  
  So then SUVs should just be banned right?
- "Punishable by fine" is just another way of saying "it's legal if you can afford it."
  
  exactly!
- The question was if heavier cars should pay more. Heavier cars are more expensive to buy, so this means that people who can afford a big car, will pay more. It's a sort of progressive taxation by proxy.
  For context: don't forget that this isn't the US: not everyone drives an SUV/pick-uptruck. Here you can see the size of the most popular car in France, compared to a pick-up truck.

As it should. Be the heavier the car the more dangerous it is for pedestrians and the more destructive it is for infrastructure.

Good. Fucking hate those things.

All this arguing over progressive fining versus just slashing the tyres of all parked SUVs you see.
- tyre extinguishers are based as fuck and they have caused a nonzero amount of people to reconsider their purchase of an SUV or to not drive their SUV downtown
- I had this idea of putting construction foam into the exhaust.

I own an SUV and I'd still vote for a parking tax on them. Or pay per pound, estimated of course. You don't want people deciding to go for the mega F-250s because they aren't subject to the SUV tax.
- We have two: A Ford Explorer (really trying to get the money to get rid of it) and a Forester. The Forester is small enough that it wouldn't be triple pay in Paris, but the Explorer is a 3 ton brick. We had it because a few years back we still had six kids at home, but now that they're filtering off to college, we are desperate to downsize. We're being stopped because our city's public transit (yay US cities) is a shitshow and our workplaces haven't given us raises in years. Yes, we're looking for other work, but so far it's been tough to find things in our field, etc.
  As soon as we can, that vehicle is being kicked to the curb. It's a terrible waste.
  
  Yeah I similarly got the SUV because of kids and I think there are use cases for them, they're just vastly overpurchased and a tax could curb that.

In other news: Peugeot and Renault announce 1.59 ton Urban Utility Vehicles.

So any car over 3,200lbs. my subcompact Honda Fit weighs 2300lbs. The 2024 Honda Accord weighs 3200lbs. I know eu has many more subcompact options than the US, cuz every car available here is basically an increasingly egg shaped amalgam of station wagon SUVs that weigh 4k lbs.
- I was wondering how they would define what an SUV would be. If they're using weight, won't they be charging a bunch of electric cars extra too?
  
  Electric Cars aren't a better alternative to "fewer cars."
  
  As they should. This is foremost a measure to make cars smaller and allow for less dangerous and stressful daily commutes by foot/bicycle.
  
  From the article, its mostly about weight with Electric Cars having a higher weight threshold than Non-Electric Cars.
  Also from the article, its not a ban, its just higher parking prices. So if you've got the cash, you can drive an H3 into downtown Paris all you want.
- Yup. EVs also run into the tonnage limit quickly too. A Tesla Model 3 single engine is 1.75 tons (no extra parking costs), but the dual motor is over 2 tons.
  The US has way too many vehicles that should be about 20-30% smaller and lighter for basic city driving. Even the "small" vehicles aren't small anymore.

The SUVs in Europe are also smaller on average than the behemoths on American roads. The largest ones you will come across in France will be BMW X5 sized. And while they are large, they are utterly dwarfed by SUVs like the Suburban, Sequoia and Escalade. An Escalade vs X5 comparison here.
- Indeed! It's really hard to explain just how much smaller the traffic feels in European cities, even when there's lots of vehicles they're still less massive overall. I have taken video footage of traffic in a few different European cities just to show people how much smaller, quieter, and less dense rush hour traffic is. Even when comparing it to my US mid-sized city's traffic.
  It's just nicer to be around roads with fewer and smaller cars.

I drive a Jeep (the unlimited though, so the large one). Good..
I want to see a trend towards smaller 4wd's and other cars. And I seem to be the only larger car that can park within the lines too. And the height of my car is low compared to the people with Rangers or Dodge Ram's (and it is rare to see any of those actually towing anything). In my case, I run a hiking group, so really need a 4wd, but will probably be looking at something more economical and smaller, like a jimny
I was hit by a car once when I was on my scooter, and I was lucky it was by a small car..
And I feel larger cars like me should pay extra (and I agree with some comments saying to charge per additional weight). We have a toxic culture here where people are moving towards big cars just to impress others (along with the toxic nonsense that comes along with it), and this is the only way the culture will change

For a second I thought it said "block" instead of "back", and I was disappointed. Nice to see they're trying to do something about the issue.

Just narrow the lanes and roads even futher so it makes SUV untenable
- Do you think that would stop people who buy Escalades and Ford F250s? They already drive over the lines in my city because they're too wide. The vast majority of people who buy those kinds of vehicles are self-centered and selfish enough to not care if they're being dangerous in narrow lanes. They are already doing that.
  Hell, I saw a person drive their Ford F650 to fucking Starbucks last week. It barely fit into the parking lot. Not a parking spot (it definitely didn't fit into that), but even just turning and maneuvering in the lot was nearly impossible. He likely burned a gallon of gas just jockying in and out of the lot.

98 comments