Fediverse @lemmy.ml Zozano @lemmy.world 2y ago

Establishing a new Fediquette

Old habits die hard, but there's Reddiquette which needs to be revived, and some which needs to die.

Many "golden-age" redditors remember a time when downvoting was reserved for hostility, not a different opinion. For the sake of our growing community I would like to implore everyone to be awesome to each other.

However, this place is not Reddit.

We don't measure in bananas here.
We don't need to append "edit: typo" to edited posts and comments.
if you see something which is worthy of a downvote: down vote and move on! Don't engage with it and feed the algorithm/engament machine so other people are exposed to it when sorting by active.

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138 comments

Showing the reason you edit a post isn't dumb, its to give a valid reason so people don't think you edited to make someones response look bad. Saying its for context, adding a word or whatever just shows you didn't edit it maliciously.

The whole "edit: thanks for gold and I can't believe my most upvoted comment was about editing!" can go away for sure though
- Holy shit agreed. The “thanks for le kind gold stranger” shit makes me want to fucking cut my throat. Some shit im begging to stay on leddit. All the shit on /r/circlejerk for example.
  
  Edit: le thanks for the gold kind stranger
- This argument never really made sense to me. Anyone who is being deceptive is not going to tell people they're editing their comments.
  
  It's the result of nothing more than a moral panic. There aren't roving bands of keyboard warriors rolling around making comments and then editing them to make others look stupid.
  
  And even if there were, they could just include "edit: typo" and get away with it. Unless someone takes screenshots.
  
  I think it says more about the community that everyone is expected to prove their innocence. Let's have a little faith in each other, we're better than that.
  
  It makes sense to me and I've been editing comments this way since the early 2000's. For some, it's a cultural practice that's probably decades old.
  
  If the platform didn't state the comment was edited, I probably wouldn't bother but if it does, there is always a thought at the back of the reader's mind about what happened. Leaving a note about editing negates the thought. Leaving pointless edits less so.
  
  I find it more ethical and transparent, particularly in discussion threads where debates are being held.
I like the "edit:" append if I edited something, just to make it clear for whoever comes later.

What's the problem with it?
We don’t need to append “edit: typo” to edited posts and comments.

I didn't do that because it was reddit etiquette. I did it because people can see I edited my post, and I would like them to be able to see why
- Why tell them you fixed typos? What's the point?
  
  I've edited my comments for years to fix typos and clarify statments, and I never once had anyone accuse me of being disingenuous.
  
  And even if they did, that's their, and their conspiratorial mind's problem.
  
  Because otherwise people don't know why I edited the post. Did I change my opinion? Did I add some context or detail I missed the first time around? Or did I just fix a typo? A reason just makes it easy for people to have more context
I think it's polite to tell what you have changed when you edit a post as long as the platform does not have edit history visible (which as far as I can tell Lemmy does not).
- If you add more context to your comment then sure mention it. But I don't think it's required for typos.
I rate this post 0.5 ~~bannanas~~bananas. edit: typo
- downvoted edit: wait I think I pressed the wrong button
The algorithm?
- I wondered the same. There are "Hot" and "Active" categories on the front page but I'm not sure how they work. Perhaps commenting pushes a post further up the "Active" feed?
  
  This is my impression too. I see day-old posts with new comments on refresh, so I'm assuming you're right. Maybe algorithm isn't the right word, but you get what I mean.
  
  https://join-lemmy.org/docs/contributors/07-ranking-algo.html
if you see something which is worthy of a downvote: down vote and move on! Don't engage with it and feed the algorithm/engament machine so other people are exposed to it when sorting by active.

Disagree. You should politely state why you disagree. Engagement is good for newer websites like lemmy and you don't need to be rude or combative to disagree. One of my issues with reddit is when people would get downvoted for making a fair point or observation.
- I really should have clarified this because it seems like a contradiction for me to state that down voting is bad, and to say that when you see something worthy of a downvote, downvote and move on.
  
  When I say worthy of downvote, I don't mean a disagreement. I'm talking about people being obviously toxic. If malicious people want a reaction, giving it to them is not productive.
  
  For example, if I see a post about plant based meals, and a comment states "I'm not convinced that this is really helping the planet, I don't see a problem with eating meat" - then engage politely.
  
  But a post like "fucking vegans lol, I'm going to eat 2 steaks tonight" is not worth replying to. Downvote and move on.
Marking edits with "edit" is fine by me, just don't use ETA for that...
My take for the fediverse would include:

Again, downvote not for disagreement but for content that clearly does not contribute to the discussion. Reason should not be given, as downvoting should be done sparingly and should not require a reason (for most sane human beings).

Be aware when interacting cross-instances. Culture, norms, and rules may differ.

Unless the instance operator is fine with it, limit your self-content sharing and self-promotion.

Remember that most of the fediverse instances are independent and they owe you nothing. The instance operator's decisions are final.

Do not squat names on multiple servers unless it's what you generally have been using.

Cats are still the supreme beings. The fediverse resides on the Internet (assuming that it runs on TCP/IP), so the cat supremacy rule applies.
- Cats are corner-pissing vermin. Fite me.
  
  Wrong!
  
  HISSSSSSSSSSS
To be honest building a edit history views makes more sense to me. This project is opensource we can do more than work around.
It's hard to understand your stance on downvoting, but from what I can tell, you think everyone who downvotes should just downvote and move on without commenting. It's funny because every post I have seen about downvoting has said the opposite; "Don't downvote just because you disagree" or "If you downvote, post a comment as to why"...

I say everyone should stop trying to dictate how other people use their software and stop complaining that "everybody else is doing it wrong"™️. If you have a problem with downvoting, I think you can join an instance that has it disabled.
- negative numbers = negative person.
  
  Negative person + negative person = negative people.
  
  Negative people * negative people = Reddit
  
  It's less about telling you how to use your software, and more about understanding what it takes to cultivate a healthy community.
  
  It's too late for reddit, but it's not too late for us.
  
  Numbers are not indicative of an emotion. It doesn't matter why someone downvotes. If they are going to be a "negative person" then they will do that regardless. I agree that everyone should make an effort to be kind and avoid being toxic, but saying that downvotes or "negative numbers" have such power is just people putting too much thought into it... Good luck with your crusade. Downvotes can be disabled by an instance admin. I would recommend anyone who cannot handle the negative numbers to consider joining one of those instances.
  
  Well if someone constantly has opinions that are very disliked by other people... maybe they just are a negative person and they should be called out for it?
Listen, I'll measure with a fucking banana if I feel like it, okay. Don't tell me what to do pal.
We don’t measure in bananas here.

You are going to have to come up.with an alternate unit of measurement then. An easily available one too, as I am not keeping a lemming handy for the purposes of scale. Unless it was stuffed... I'm off to eBay, back in a mo.
- I use my Lemmy for architectural blueprints.
  
  Wait what? People have those? A lemmy is a real animal? So many new things at once for me
  
  Smaller than I thought but it does have the potential to be a standard.
- Metric.
I'm very curious as to what people's view on etiquette is regarding submitting your own content. I write a weekly newsletter about the fediverse which is pretty relevant to this community for example. But I'm also quite aware of reddiquette thats pretty hesitant on submitting your own stuff, as it can get spammy really fast. Would love to hear.
- Personally, if it's good content I don't mind a little self promotion. People won't see what you made if you don't share it. Just don't post it to dozens of communities, that's when it gets way too spammy. Find one or two you think it would a good fit for and users would find relevant and share it there, as long as that community doesn't have any rules against promoting your own content.
- I don't see any problem with that, and posting a weekly update is far from spammy behavior anyway.
It's not really an algorithm, you see posts based on the type and sort order you select. Sorting by "hot" counts votes, sorting by "active" counts posts. My default is Subscribed and New. When I get through all the new stuff I check Active and Hot.

In any case, yeah there's stuff I hope not to see here. So far so good and hopefully it will stay that way for a while.
- I mean, a sorting algorithm is still an algorithm, just a very straightforward one. The good kind of algorithm.
- Fixed it to be more precise.
  
  I suppose whether it's an algorithm comes down to which definition you use.
  
  I think the colloquial definition is something which is user-dependant and very complicated.
  
  However, the dictionary definition is "a finite set of unambiguous instructions", which fits my initial usage.
  
  Strangely though, the colloquial definition doesn't fit the dictionary definition, because the YouTube/Twitter/Facebook algorithms are so ambiguous that the people designing them don't really know what they're doing, since they are evolving by themselves.
  
  So... Elsewhere in this thread you keep stating that explaining why something is edited is not useful. But here I have no idea what your previous statement was or what you edited, and because you didn't explain why you edited, I'm left guessing what your previous statement was.
  
  This is precisely why people explain why they edit, otherwise the conversation loses context as edits occur. Hopefully you can step back and see why explaining edits is useful?
  
  Yeah it's semantics, but to me an algorithm includes some kind of code to do something I'm not aware of or have control over, like a section of code that does a job in the background. In this case I think of something that pre-selects which content to put on my front page based on some logic I have no control over.
I'm an old age redditor, and that was may reddiquette, "don't downvote just because you don't like the topic, maybe other people find it interesting".

Mostly I don't downvote at all, only on some rude or spam posts.

Reddit just become something where everyone downvote everything for no reason, even if just say "OK" ou "that's cool"!
On Lemmy (ate least for now), not so much or I don't see it.

If you see a post "orange is the best color", don't downvote just because you don't like orange, leave a comment and express your opinion instead

PS: There's an old Reddiquette song, the same can be applied to fediverse
https://youtu.be/4fLpktf2jYw
- Downvoting breeds toxicity. It's regrettable that we are wired to feel validated and rejected by numbers, but if we admit that, we should understand that unnecessarily putting someone into the negative numbers ultimately hurts everyone.
  
  I really want Lemmy to cultivate a community which epitomises virtues of civility. Reserve down votes for uncivil behaviour.
  
  Seems like kinda a toxic way to start that. Why are you trying to dictate who should post what and how they do it? Maybe someone wants to measure in bananas. Maybe someone wants to clarify their edit. I don’t see the point of the post if you’re not looking to tease out anything but an unnatural result.
  
  Lemmy will be whatever the humans that make it will be.
I only agree with two rules: be awesome to each other (if in kind) and downvote is not a disagree button, it's a troll button.

Dictating other rules, like the use of the edit keyword or how to measure scale of something... Is not awesome.
What's so wrong about using bananas for scale?
- That's their thing. You don't take your new partner to the spot where you fell in love with your ex. That's just weird.
  
  That seems like a weird comparison...
  
  I'd most certainly do that if that spot was simply a romantic location I enjoyed, and it wouldn't be weird unless I also kept talking about my ex.
Alright, a question for you all about down voting. Is the platform, or the apps made for it take it into account for feeds?

ie, if I down vote everything I don't like seeing does it get removed from my feed? If so I'd just down vote and move on. If not, I'd probably not down vote, but even if I did, I'd feel like I need to give a reason behind it for the poster to know.
- It's not as personal as that. Down voting just means that the post/comment will be further down if you're sorting by 'top'. The more upvotes the closer that thing will be to the top of the page. It's not just for you, it's for everyone. If that makes sense?
  
  Right, got it, thanks a lot. I'll stop downvoting in that case, except if something is really offensive.
- I don't believe there's any instance with an algorithm, so no. In the future someone might launch an instance with an algorithm like that.

138 comments