China Installed More Solar Panels Last Year Than the U.S. Has in Total

Source? I haven't seen final numbers for 2023 from EIA yet, but 2022 was like 22%. The growth is accelerating as economics change, and in large part the IRA (thanks Biden), but it's not 40%. I'm speaking of electricity production, but I can't think of a reasonable metric that's anywhere near 40% nationally. Let's try to stick to reality here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_the_United_States

The US DOE puts the US at 20% renewable energy.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/renewable-energy

I mean... It can all be true, right?

The anti-EV sentiment has been building much longer than BYD becoming the big boy on the block. About 8 months ago my state passed the equivalent of about a $100 per gallon tax on EV charging.

I seem to have been working on old info, as China has decommissioned 70 GW of coal plants, but it looks like they also just approved a whole lot more of them.

From Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/chinas-coal-country-full-steam-ahead-with-new-power-plants-despite-climate-2023-11-30/#:~:text=After 2025%2C it is unclear,and are phasing out plants.

In the third quarter of this year, however, China permitted more new coal plants than in all of 2021, according to Greenpeace, even as most countries have stopped building new coal-fired power and are phasing out plants.

Well, shit.

Anyway, I'm glad for the solar and nuclear capacity (LOTS of it!) that China's been building. I'm glad to hear that we are spinning down coal capacity, but I'd be interested to learn what we're replacing it with. It seems like natural gas is all the rage these days, and that still produces GHG emissions.

I'm not so sure about that. China is about to ramp up solar even more. They build a lot of solar and battery-related factories and secured mining rights for solar and battery raw elements in Asia and Africa in the past few years, sometimes to the point of fighting with the displaced locals (China tend to bring their own workers from mainland instead of employing local workers).

It's also easier to justify adopting newer tech in places that are less developed. If you made a billion dollar investment and are still paying for it, it's harder to scrap it and pivot.

It's more because developing countries don't attract the interest of corporations so much that they won't devote much energy to sabotage the installation of renewable energy.

The average consumer doesn't actually have a choice in the matter. Unless you are wealthy enough to purchase only local artisan made goods near everything you can afford is made in China or made in China adjacent.

I don't think that absolves China of any blame. They're still choosing to produce cheap goods at the expense of the planet, because it's good business for them too.

You‘re right. We should move production to cleaner countries.

No, it’s not hypocritical. Yes, anyone with half a brain knows China makes a huge chunk of the world’s stuff.

A nation can make choices as to what energy sources they use and China went balls to the wall with coal. That wasn’t a choice the buyers of Chinese products made.

Lots of that is cattle for meat, BTW, not just energy production.

Bad manufacturing practices that exploits a poor labor force. They use this to their advantage to persuade western companies to provide cheap service at the cost of their workforce and sustainability. They then turn around and make these grand plans of Eco friendly targets while their populace regularly burn their trash with little regulation. Then some regulation agency comes in and turns a blind eye to some foul shit as long as they are paid accordingly to play ball.

Because they pollute a lot

They could always say no

It just could be, maybe, military posturing.

Because I don't remember any restrictions for as long as China didn't intend to start the WW3.

Here's the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:

The Thucydides Trap, or Thucydides' Trap, is a term popularized by American political scientist Graham T. Allison to describe an apparent tendency towards war when an emerging power threatens to displace an existing great power as a regional or international hegemon. The term exploded in popularity in 2015 and primarily applies to analysis of China–United States relations. Supporting the thesis, Allison led a study at Harvard University's Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs which found that, among a sample of 16 historical instances of an emerging power rivaling a ruling power, 12 ended in war. That study, however, has come under considerable criticism, and scholarly opinion on the value of the Thucydides Trap concept—particularly as it relates to a potential military conflict between the United States and China—remains divided.

^{to opt out, pm me 'optout'. article | about}

Cool part is we've got a functional safety system like OSHA so everyone goes home with all their fingers and toes, and the EPA keeps the nearby creeks from getting contaminated.

Can't say the same for other countries, troubled and fucked up as our country is.

That would be the point of making panels and wind turbines themselves.

Ideally you'd want enough manufacturing capacity to power your whole country with renewables, in the time it takes for the first bits to start needing replacements.

Think about Uyghurs.

Until it’s a new moon…

Actually that raises an interesting point…the best time for solar, on earth, is when the panels are most directly hit.

So since the moon is tidally locked to the earth, that means that there would be better ideal tilts at each longitude, so that whenever the sun is out, they are tilted to receive as much light as possible. But that also means that the panels only even receive light for half of the lunar cycle, at most.

Right? Am I overthinking this?

We can do it, not because it's easy, but because it is hard.

Wait what? That's an awful reason to do something.

I still can't wrap my head around the case for genocide in China. Political and religious oppression is evident, but aside from grainy photos of some prisoners, but I haven't seen evidence of genocide. People are saying it though so... I guess it could be true?

hahahaha this is why I pay my internets

Funny you accuse the Saudi government of what was an inside-job. The Saudi government exiled Bin Laden in the 1990s, revoking his citizenship, while the US was still working with him. Either way we don’t need it from you. China is making you irrelevant. You can’t withhold technology to bully the rest of the world. You can go pound sand.

Also funny coming from a nation where a genocidal maniac is the lesser evil, someone who is bypassing Congress to send weapons to Israel and bomb Yemen. You keep your electoralism, and I am keeping our free healthcare, free universities and high speed rail.

FYI, the US is guilty of multiple war crimes in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere. They are guilty right now of war crimes in Palestine. It is really tiring how you pretend to be the good guys. You are Homelander not Superman, and you are no longer the only player in town.

Which is a part of China according to even the US

China pollutes so much because George HW Bush and Bill Clinton pushed American jobs to China so CEOs could make bank on huge profits on cheap labor, unsafe work places, and near zero environmental regulation that was impossible in the United States. We built China by disregarding worker rights and the environment and we are paying for it dearly.

Can't wage war if you depend on oil ships

Agreed that wealth also is a relevant parameter. But it is also a function of the population because what fraction of your population's power consumption is coming from a renewable source is a more interesting metric than your raw renewable power production.

China is from from perfect, missing tons of freedoms like speech. However do you think they have the same issues as the US regarding wealth hoarding? They have put billionaires in jail.

Whelp, in this case, China's elite is not invisible. Their citizen know exactly who's the elite controlling the economy.

what? they dont even have direct presidential elections for the federal executive.

Pooh with an iron mit is not the same as the invisible kings of the countless corporations donating their free speech to our government. They are beholden to Whinnie, and he is out in the open. Yes, there are still a lot of economical politics over there. Yes, there is still capitalistic pressures and businesses are allowed to operate. Do they define money as free speech over there? Did they capture bribery and bind it to the law? I don't know, but I do know that is true for the US, and it is the reason you won't see enough renewables being built. Its the reason we will drag our feet to our graves, because it makes some dudes richer than god.

Then next is Russia. I like this common sense concept!

They were probably referring to population

About 20% of that US land is in Alaska, which is not a place to put solar panels. Not if you want them to produce for half the year at a stretch, anyway.

Yea.... Hahaha they are chineese panels lol

I doubt it, I've no interest in discussing the matter with someone who clearly doesn't keep up to date on architectural issues within the mainland.

傻瓜

China regularly does vanity projects to get positive headlines. Mass tree planting has been a popular one, the trees are generally all dead in a year or two, but they got the pro environment headline.

Totally, you can get all the money from the government for it so you make the profit. Just look at the rent a bike industry in China or the EV industry