1y ago

User Code of Conduct, Personal Reflections

Beeple Code of Conduct # This is not meant to be rules but more so, examples or guidelines. Assume good faith # GOOD I treat other Beeple with good faith, even when I think they are not responding to me in kind, unless they are unequivocally advocating for hate or intolerance of fellow humans. GOOD ...

Personal Reflections

Over the past few weeks I've found myself engaged with Beehaw in a fundamentally different way. The explosive growth necessitated shifted timelines, had me prioritizing replies and moderator actions in a different way and in general greatly shifted what parts of the website I spent most of my time on.

This shift changed my perception of the website. I didn't have as much time to spend reading the awesome interactions which resolved themselves, where people were nice to each other and to check out the cool discussions going on. I spent a lot of my time answering questions, devoting a bunch of attention to the neediest, the loudest, or simply whomever was just in my inbox. I ended up stepping into a lot of conversations to help try and defuse or deal with difficult people and directing efforts on helping (collaboratively!) to establish a strong moderation ethos. I recently found myself reflecting on this and realizing I was missing out on the very environment we came here to establish and that I need to set better boundaries for myself.

In order to prioritize my own mental health I'm going to establish the following boundaries for myself:

I am going to spend more of my time on the site browsing and commenting and less moderating and responding to every question that comes my way. If you ping me to ask a question that other people have already asked or can be answered elsewhere I'm probably not going to answer it anymore.
As much as I want to treat all of you with the respect and kindness you deserve when intervening as a mod or admin, it's not sustainable at this scale because it quickly becomes all of the time I spend on this site, so I've put together a code of conduct below to help guide expectations of how interactions with myself and other moderators might look.
I really don't have the time or energy to take suggestions phrased like demands or to entertain anyone talking shit about this place. Instead of suggestions phrased like demands, I'd ask that they are phrased as requests or even better as a plan of action (how are you going to help us accomplish something better, together?). Instead of talking shit, you're free to highlight the flaws you see (ideally in Beehaw support), so long as you're also providing suggestions on how to fix things. Venting about this platform just to vent that it doesn't fit your ideal situation doesn't do the community any good on this platform. Or any platform we're federated with, frankly. If you ever feel the need to vent about this platform then do so to your friends, in DMs, on email, by punching a pillow, or by whispering sweet nothings to the wind on top of your roof- venting here just makes the place depressing and toxic and I don't want to participate in that environment. I want an uplifting, positive space where we enable each other and treat each other with respect.
It's upsetting to see how certain individuals react to moderators and admins stepping in to try and keep this place safe for minorities or to ensure that there's peace. This is tiring to everyone involved and not sustainable. As much as I like the idea of helping each other become better, some people need a lot more help than we can offer and I think some of us don't have strong enough boundaries on how to engage with that in a healthy manner (I know I've got issues with being taken advantage of because I love pleasing others). To that end, we've drawn up a draft code of conduct to help people understand some healthy boundaries that need to be specified.

Purpose of the Code of Conduct

The purpose of this code of conduct is not to establish new rules (our only rule is to be nice), but to frame what nice behavior looks like so that stronger boundaries can be both respectful and enforced. I've spent a lot of mental and emotional energy educating and diffusing situations on Beehaw in the last few weeks and this is a structure we're providing to show you how to be respectful of the time of the moderators and admins and how to get the best results out of an interaction with us. If we tell you to disengage and you imply that I'm being a fascist for doing so, we're no longer going to bother continuing to try to defuse the situation as some of us have been, because you simply aren't treating us with good faith. As much as I'd like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt and to always assume good faith even when they're angrily replying to me, none of us can do that at the scale we've already reached. I've seen a lot of people treating me and other moderators with bad faith and I don't want any of us becoming cold and calloused to our users as a defense mechanism to deal with the abuse.

In case you didn't notice, this post is also a link to the code of conduct.

68 comments

Good. I'm sick of reading all over the place what fascists the Beehaw moderators are, and I'm sure it's even more exhausting for you, so I'm glad you're drawing these boundaries. I've mentioned it a few places, but there seems to be two camps on what the Fediverse should be. There's the camp that thinks the Fediverse should be a fully unmoderated peer to peer free for all, and there's the camp that thinks the Fediverse should be a distributed governance model in which users are free to choose the admins whose moderation style matches their desired moderation style.
People have a lot of rage at Beehaw for being moderated a certain way, and the questions I always find myself asking are: "Why do you want to engage with a community you do not like?" if the person seems to hate Beehaw, or "Have you considered the possibility that you like the discussions on Beehaw specifically because it's curated that way" when someone seems upset that they need a secondary account to access Beehaw because their main account is on lemmy.world or sh.itjust.works.
I, personally, am in the second of the two camps I described at first. Hence, this is my primary account. I really like it here. I like it a lot. For this reason, I want you to keep doing what you need to keep it being what it is, and if that means you and Alyaza taking breaks, good! I can only imagine that rage is even more exhausting for you fine beefolk since you've invested more of yourselves into making this instance what it is, and you have to deal with it much more constantly.
So take some time to engage as a user. Go to some dance clubs. Go tubing on a river. Love yourself, just as a general concept.
- Unfortunately it comes with the territory. When you stick up for the humanity of others, people who benefit from the system fight you because they like the system as it is, they've been subconsciously indoctrinated, or they're afraid of change. I know that I signed up for this and honestly it's not affecting me all that much (I still love you all), but I'm trying to pay close attention to the environment and perceptions of the environment around here and be as transparent as I can about that journey in case it's helpful to anyone out there
  
  Someone on here a few days ago said rules like these are written in blood. I've been around to see what happens when rules like what exist here are not around, and it's not pretty (usually lots of literal Nazis get involved). I know any kind of hostility can sting however absurd it is, but ultimately this criticism can be disregarded as it is made from at best total ignorance. Freedom should extend to the point where it doesn't infringe on the freedom of others and I don't think that's too hard to understand. Some restrictions on negative freedom can enhance positive freedom, and I've really been enjoying freely expressing myself in good faith here without bracing myself for a stupid fight. I've been wanting what this is for many years.
- There’s the camp that thinks the Fediverse should be a fully unmoderated peer to peer free for all, and there’s the camp that thinks the Fediverse should be a distributed governance model in which users are free to choose the admins whose moderation style matches their desired moderation style.
  I really want to make a philosophy post on the effects of individualism on moderation...
  
  I'm really curious, and ready to read that post
  
  Please do. Don't fell pressure to write elaborate essays if the thought is incomplete. Opening discussions attract others in the same boat.
- How many social media services need to circle the drain that is the alt-right hate speech/extremism pipeline before we all admit that, maybe, there are a lot of toxic people out there who WANT that to happen, and we might be happier if we just told them up front that they are not welcome?
  Honestly, I have no problem whatsoever. If Beehaw is not for me, I'll find someplace new. And the alt-right folks can go set up their own Fediverse node if they want. Good luck to 'em.
  
  the alt-right folks can go set up their own Fediverse node
  They have, several. A relatively famous one imploded when its admin finally realized that some of the "free speech" people posing as Nazis... were not just posing, but actual believers. There is a hilarious/cringe last post on archive.org.
- When I hear people calling the admins/mods here fascists, having read their ideas and literally read some of their modlogs, it usually tells me all I need to know about the person calling them a fascist haha
  
  Some people will scream fascism at absolutely everything except actual fascism. That they consider freedom, and think you're a fascist for trying to stop it.
  Insane world out there. At least there's Beehaw 💖

I'm just stunned that anybody is making an effort, honestly. As an older tech nerd with kids and adulting and all this crap, I can't imagine the kind of impact it must have on people's time and attention to run a site like this.
Of all the recent spin-ups of reddit alternatives, I'm honestly more excited for beehaw than anything else. Having a consistent vision and concept of operations seems to be the only way to prevent media from sliding with the rightward-shifting Overton window. Every other social media site taught us that if you do nothing, your site will turn into an alt-right hellhole.

If people don't like Beehaw, they are free to go elsewhere.
They seem to forget they request to be here and have read the rules. Don't like them? Goodbye then.
I've noticed some 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong' types turning up on Lemmy world/ml.
I'll probably drop those accounts. This place is like a breath of fresh air.
Long may it stay!
- Due to federation, not everyone participating here "requested" to be here. They can still be banned though, but I think the approach of "inform, remove, ban", leaving them an opportunity to correct course, is the right one.
  As mere users, I think we may also help mod efforts by respectfully educating infringers of what they are doing; worst case scenario, it will lower the workload for mods.

It's always a bit sad when something you love starts feeling more like "just" work.
Sounds like a good plan to chill a bit and rub shoulders with the mortals.
You guys are probably going to have to recruit more mods in the near future to avoid burnout if we keep growing like this.
Hang in there!
- I think Lemmy needs instance moderators, or super moderators, basically. People who enforce instance wide rules, but don't worry about the rules of local communities. Further, these users would not have access to some of the gnarly system administration stuff that an admin would have. I totally understand right now the low number of admins on large instances like this purely as a technical requirement. The more admins you have, the more security holes your instance has, purely from a social engineering perspective. But moderation and system administration are very different tasks, and the fewer admins you have right now, the fewer top-level moderators you have.
  I know "power mod" is a loaded term for redditfugees, but I think the problem was less "this moderator does moderator action across too many communities" and more "none of these communities are well moderated because no one here locally in the communities leads the moderation." I'd be curious what other people think
  
  Yeah, I think Lemmy needs a lot more granularity over roles. Currently there's two rules outside one of a user : Admin (You can literally do anything that is possible) and Community mod (Remove comments/posts, ban community-wide).
  We need people who can remove comments/posts site-wide, ban site-wide, do application approvals. None of this can currently be delegated without giving full powers.
  
  I think that "power mods" are more of a perception than a reality even on Reddit. There are a handful of examples that people tend to bring up, but I'd wager that the vast majority of reddit users never had any issues with power mods (or if they did there's a decent chance that there's more than one side to the story), and I know that in a few of the examples people like to repeat there's more to the story.
  I agree that Lemmy really needs a site mod role. Right now, only the Admins can issue sitewide bans or purge users posts or post contents. That means that admins have to step in any time a user is a problem in more than one community (and if they're a problem in one place they are more than likely going to be a problem in more than one) or if illegal content is posted (I haven't really encountered this, I know it has happened).
  
  To me "power mod" means someone that uses their moderator/admin powers to bully users. I've been banned from FB groups for citing city ordinances and for pointing out that a post was made by a scammer.
  The legal advice mod gave me a vulgar and derogatory flare because I argued that the smell of marijuana coming from your neighbors house is a nuisance.
  If a moderator has the ability to shape the narrative on a platform and uses their powers to harass people, they are a "power mod"

Be(e) nice to the admins and mods who have made what we have possible. Kudos to all y'all. Beehaw rules.

Self love is the best kind of love. I hope you find the reason you work so hard for this community again. Thank you, and to all the mods and admins I really appreciate you all. Always fun to read discussions here

Thanks for all the work you do for this space to thrive! Is there anything community members can do to assist other than not being jerks?
- You can help remind other people to be nice if you ever see them not being nice!
  
  Will do 😄

love the clarity, love the honesty, love you. big W

Thank you for putting your own mental health first. The loud minority of assholes can be emotionally exhausting. I like Beehaw the way it is, and that takes effort. I am VERY grateful!

The new direction is more than fair honestly. I both really appreciate and sympathize with the need to point out that these hostile bad faith responses are upsetting. For a long time, commentary on attack dogging a forum has had to sidestep the issue that having to deal with this shit is emotionally draining. It's reasonable that there is a place for eveyrone at the table but the chairs have an emergency eject for diners who start throwing food. It's bad enough that everyone still eating has to finish their meal with a mess everywhere.
- everyone still eating has to finish their meal with a mess everywhere
  Content removal, addressed in a previous post, should work for that. I still wonder if an AI could somehow help in the process.

You all are definitely doing good in my view but I don't think it fair that we'd expect you to spend all of your time moderating literally every aspect of this community.
May I suggest that it just be a community rule that if somebody has a request we just say they should put it in Beehaw Support and let the community engage on the topic to discuss the merits.
If we are all fairly like minded on respecting others and the defederating or bans that have occurred it would seem we could self regulate those discussions and catch people up as a community rather than expecting the moderators to handle every engagement.
You've been transparent on actions that have been taken and why, I think we can handle propagation of that info ourselves at least.
- I had a similar thought that I'm trying to develop. We, as members, should take care of our community too. If you see moderators and admins as individuals with specific responsibilities instead of power, you might realize you can contribute in a different way. Exactly how is what I'm working on right now, but there's the danger that we'll start policing each other in the worst way possible if we start focusing in rules and not in how we behave.
  
  if we start focusing in rules
  I think a big point of all these philosophy posts, is to avoid that. Having principles instead of rules, should hopefully prevent community members from throwing rules at each other.

Thank you for this post. I really appreciate all that you and the other admins have been doing to keep Beehaw going. I hope you're able to disengage when you need to and manage the burnout. Take care of yourself.

Lots of voices saying the same thing I'm about to say, but I really want to pile on so you know many of us mean it...Please take care of yourselves mod team! You have created the best place on the internet, and deserve lots of time to rest and revel in your hard work.
I hope we as a community can do enough to make those bad actors feel like it is a waste of time to engage with us.

I always really appreciate the effort y'all put into clarifying how you want this community to be run or actions y'all are taking. I wanna say that I really enjoy the feeling I get here: that people typically are good faith and see the human on the other side. Being a mod or admin and trying to exemplify the community you hope to foster has to be incredibly exhausting. That being said, the effort is noticeable, and I'm really thankful for y'all's passion for this project of beeing nice :)

Hey. This is the only instance so far where I've felt safe to be out. I really appreciate all the work you and the other admins have put in to making this place, it really does feel special. That being said, putting yourself first matters, and if it's this community or your own health, you know what to prioritize. The rest of us will be able to figure things out!

You’re doing something special here. Successfully defending a haven of respect and decency in today’s social media hellscape is spectacular. I did not realize the scale of the backlash but in retrospect that’s just me being naive. I’m sick of this sort of constant argumentative, removed, mean or outright hurtful behaviour that would get anyone kicked out of any IRL group but that is somehow supposed to be a hallmark of superior intelligence online.
I applaud your effort to educate and enlighten. If I were you I’d wield this more readily (maybe it’s OK if you do too?):
- STL?... oops, wrong sub 😁
  I'm of the opinion that bans should be the last resort. This Code of Conduct seems to outline pretty well how people should behave, and since this isn't an IRL group, disengaging is much easier, don't even need to turn your back to stop a conversation... and shutting up is not "letting them win the argument", like some people on that Reddit site would think.

Thank you for this update, and I hope you guys are all doing OK. Look after yourselves! And thank you for this space. It's the first place in ages I actually have felt I want to post or comment on something in anticipation of a friendly discussion instead of worrying about trolls or aggressive responses :)

I want to praise you for redacting a "Code of Conduct" with only one "BAD" example, while making it clear and concise. Kudos.
Also please don't become calloused, take care of yourself and enjoy the community you're building.
Suggestion: What would you think of having some sort of "community ambassadors"; not in a role of mods, but just people who'd be willing both to orient newcomers, and politely engage those who might be trying to cause trouble, to either diffuse the situation, or lead them to show their true colors for easier modding?
I've been in some communities with such a non-mod ambassador role, and I think they were a positive influence.
- We had one early on who quit within 2 days because they didn't understand our ethos or principles before signing up. It was a bit of a mess, and I hope they found whatever they were looking for.
  I'm completely open to the idea even if it crashes and burns again. I'm an anarchist, so I'm very much in favor of anyone willing to chip in with whatever they can and that matches their skill set.

Beehaw isn’t Reddit and anyone who came here only to recreate their Reddit experience might not find a home. There is this razor thin line where a community is big enough to seem vital and active, but not so big it becomes a shithole. Surfing that edge is probably very hard and I appreciate you making the effort to do it.
I have a lemmy.world account also and it’s fine, but beehaw feels like a new kind of experiment with this sort of internet community. It is good and valuable. Thanks!

A lot of good opinion has been stated in the comments here, but I'd just like to express how grateful I am that Beehaw exists. It's like a safe outpost in the wilderness that's welcoming and comfortable, but will only stay this way if everyone behaves themselves to the bare minimum of human decency.
I don't think that's too much to ask of users. Thank you for the work you do to keep this place what it is!

68 comments