11mo ago

Germany unearths pro-Russia disinformation campaign on X: Investigators uncover concerted onslaught on Berlin’s support for Ukraine involving more than 1m posts

www.theguardian.com Germany unearths pro-Russia disinformation campaign on X

Investigators uncover concerted onslaught on Berlin’s support for Ukraine involving more than 1m posts

The German foreign ministry, which commissioned the study after suspecting it was being targeted by bots, said the findings highlighted the need for governments to systematically tackle the growing number of disinformation campaigns and recognise the effect they could have on elections.

World News @beehaw.org

Germany unearths pro-Russia disinformation campaign on X: Investigators uncover concerted onslaught on Berlin’s support for Ukraine involving more than 1m posts

www.theguardian.com /world/2024/jan/26/germany-unearths-pro-russia-disinformation-campaign-on-x

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Democratic countries are so far behind in this kind of asymmetrical information war. The Kremlin and now also CCP have been blasting propaganda and bad information on social media for years, and democracies are still flat footed.
- How is that supposed to look?
  How do you differentiate legit free speech, from concerted propaganda efforts? Especially as information is very volatile nowadays. How do you mark false information, without creating systems abused to opress investigative exposures and whistle blowers?
  Russia and China dont need to protect free speech, press and information.
  
  Social Networks have more meta information than you see on their frontend. It would be possible for them to find those networks based on who they follow, retweet, like and engage with. Or maybe check if they only write in German, but only post during business hours in St. Petersburg ...
  
  Yeah, it's a major disadvantage for countries with more freedom. Some obvious steps would be public information campaigns and working with and regulating social media companies.
  But those aren't easy solutions, especially since the Kremlin has an asset running for US president trying to divide the country and weaken it's support for other democracies.
  
  That's kind of a thing that only pro-propaganda people say.
  It's pretty blatant, propaganda focuses on emotional appeal and not factual information. Usually several forms of intellectual dishonesty are part of it as well.
  Any side by side comparison of propaganda material and legitimate sincere discourse makes this plain.

Is it just me, or do we see “study” after study finding things we all knew already? What bothers more than stating the obvious is that nothing happens. We all just carry on as is.
- It is more proof. But you are right: What we need is action.
- Stuff "we all know already" is kinda worthless. Ideally, politics should be made based on evidence, not gut feelings or anecdotes. So studies that give evidence are a good thing, even if the results were expected.

It's amazing anyone still uses that platform...
- Half the population has an IQ of 100 or lower.
  It's entirely unsurprising.
- A lot of people like porn. So why would they not use a site like X?

This is the best summary I could come up with:
Digital forensic experts in Germany have uncovered a vast, pro-Russia disinformation campaign against the government using tens of thousands of fake accounts on the social media platform X.
The German foreign ministry, which commissioned the study after suspecting it was being targeted by bots, said the findings highlighted the need for governments to systematically tackle the growing number of disinformation campaigns and recognise the effect they could have on elections.
Using specialised monitoring software, the experts uncovered a huge trail of posts over a one-month period from 10 December, which amounted to a sophisticated and concerted onslaught on Berlin’s support for Ukraine.
The overwhelming tone of the messages was the suggestion that the government of Olaf Scholz was neglecting the needs of Germans as a result of its support for Ukraine, both in terms of weapons and aid, as well as by taking in more than a million refugees.
Der Spiegel, which had access to the findings, reported that the fake accounts had matching comments attached to them, often using hashtags popular at the time, such as #Oktoberfest or #Bundesliga, in a concerted effort to reach as wide an audience as possible.
In one of the most impactful fake messages, in terms of the number of people it reached and the amount of feedback it generated, Annalena Baerbock, the foreign minister, appeared to be declaring from her own account on X that government support for Ukraine was crumbling.
The original article contains 582 words, the summary contains 238 words. Saved 59%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

One honest question I have is how effective such a campaign really is. Sometimes I feel like Russian disinformation is used as an excuse when public opinion is genuinely shifting away from the government line.
You saw this as well during the BLM protests in the US, where some liberals accused Russia of instigating the riots.
I live in Germany and I know multiple people that think the best thing to do right now is just accept the losses, get a peace deal, and stop the violence. And I don’t think they are on X.
Just to clarify I’m not saying Russia isn’t trying or that no measures should be taken to limit obviously foreign propaganda, I’m just wondering if it really has that much of an effect.
- I don’t understand this weariness you describe. We aren’t even at war, we are comfortably sitting back letting Ukraine do the fighting. All we have to do is throw some money and equipment their way and they essentially fight for our geopolitical interests by proxy.
  What’s more, who the fuck are we to tell them to settle and be done with the war, when clearly Russia doesn’t respect any status quo or existing border. Imagine the outrage if it was us at war with, say, France over northrhine-westphalia and everyone was urging us to just concede that territory for the sake of peace.
  We should throw billions at Ukraine and place whole orders with our MIC for them, and afterwards still say thank you very much. Because they die we don’t have to.
  
  If others were funding Germany's war then it would be reasonable to heed their advice lest they withdraw the funding.
  
  The weariness comes from the fact that the people actually dying or getting maimed for life, don’t want to fight anymore. They are getting forcefully conscripted. Most Ukrainians that volunteered are already dead or wounded.
- It's not the only disinformation in Germany. Many in eastern Germany still follow Russian State Propaganda in Form of Sputnik News, Voice of Russia, some small "independent thinkers" websites etc to get "indepent" information, or "a second view"
- I know multiple people that think the best thing to do right now is just accept the losses, get a peace deal, and stop the violence.
  The problem with this idea is Russia's track record of broken deals (like accepting Ukraine's territorial integrity, then invading) and aggressive ambitions (greetings to our Baltic allies). Chances are the last two points are nothing but false hopes and all that remains is "accept the losses", while Russia prepares to invade the next neighbor. All the good points are also the untrustworthy points. We kind of tried this idea when they took Crimea, and see where it got us.
  
  Russia is an independent actor on the world stage, with a huge military, a huge nuclear arsenal, and a huge economy (ppp). We have to find a way to live peacefully with them because the alternative is a nuclear holocaust.
  Russia started a war of aggression, which is THE primary war crime, and should not go unpunished. So relations can probably not be normalized until the current leadership is replaced (which granted might take a while), but a cease fire at least stops the killing.
- So you know 3 nutjobs that believe the propaganda, good job mate. They may not be on Xitter, but I bet you they are on Telegram, where the worst of Xitter's content is aggregated.
  Russia is destabilizing the west by influencing people like you, which creates a divide. Ever heard of the term "divide and conquer"? It's a pretty serious thing.
  
  Yes I have heard of that phrase, as have most people I think.
- you don't need to be on X too be touched by that, X is the media to create a "thinking", people talk and share the fake news in other platforms
- S, where some liberals accused Russia of instigating the riots.
  Literally no one said this...
  
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_Black_Lives_Matter
- I live in Germany and I know multiple people that think the best thing to do right now is just accept the losses, get a peace deal, and stop the violence.
  You also should ask them what to do when Russia will try the trick again somewhere else...
  Or better, ask them what part of Germany they are ready to drop off to some other state...
  
  Russia was very explicit in what would happen if the west kept promising NATO membership to Ukraine, and then it did as promised. No such situation exists for any current NATO or EU member state.
  To add to this Russia and Ukraine were already de facto at war since 2014, promising a military alliance to a country at war without expecting escalation is just plain stupid.
  And just to reiterate, starting a war of aggression is the principal war crime and should not go without consequences. But we do need to live together with Russia on one continent and this requires concessions from both sides, because the alternative is the mass death and destruction that we now see in Ukraine.

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