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I don't care what religion it is, I just want more holidays
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How about holidays because humans are living, breathing, thinking, emoting beings that need decent food, shelter, rest and recreation? The closing of businesses on at least one weekend day need not be religious. If we run oit for a day or two, we get some from a neighbor or are just out for a day or two?
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hear me out, i may be less for adding more religious holidays.
this is based on trying to use b and h as a professional service. they close for EVERY Jewish holiday. there's so many of them. so many more then Christian holidays that others close for. AND they still close for those Christian holidays.
it makes them unpredictable and hard to use. if they also started taking off Muslim holidays they'd be closed every 2 days... that's just too much. i don't think we as a society can afford to take that many holidays.
it's very hard to explain to you boss why we have to delay because the partner we're contracted with is closed until Monday because of a holiday that your boss has never heard of.
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This would be my argument for allowing people of various religions to take their religious holidays, but not require everyone to take them (if they don't want to).
So (and these will all be hypothetical because my knowledge of holidays across various religions is pretty poor -- sorry) :-
Imagine there are four main religions in the UK -- Potterism, Everdinery, Swannism and Sherlockian.
Potterism celebrates the 31st of July, 31st of October, the 2nd of May, the 1st of September and the 19th of September as its holy days.
Everdinery celebrates the 10th of March, the 20th of May, the 31st of August, the 9th of January and the 5th of July.
Swannism celebrates the 3rd to the 5th of May, the 10th of August, the 12th of September and the 12th of December.
And Sherlockian celebrates the 1st of February, the 9th of March, the 12th of June, the 24th of September and the 10th of October.
Along with all these, all four religions celebrate the 31st of December, the 1st of January and the 23rd of August. Just because.
(Really making this up as I ago along).
The celebrants of each religion can take their days off as a holiday (without using up their paid holiday allowance), but businesses do not have to close. Bank holidays become a thing of the past.
Schools ignore them, and school holidays are arranged around more sensible times (summer holidays, spring holidays, winter holidays).
Religion is taken out of public life more or less altogether.
Now I accept that in "real life" this will be more complicated, but businesses can adapt for Jewish, Muslim, Christian and other workers and would not need to shut down on such a wide scope
The only exception might still be Christmas, because that has become more of a secular thing than a religious one.
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I don't even want more holidays. I just want them spaced out better :)
(Every public holiday bar 1 occurs within 22 weeks and 1 day (December 25th to the 27th of May in this case).
They all occur within the last week of December, the first week of January and (generally) the first/second week of April.
How about instead of clumping them altogether, we get one every two months or so. That would be far better :)
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This is how it is where I live, it's great. There's a holiday every month except for April and June, and in September there's two.
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My da hosts a Bible study group in their home, and recently I glanced at a booked they were going through called "The War on Christianity" or some shit like that. I just gave a short laugh and said "Oooooh, you poor oppressed Christians!" before my mother gave me "the look" that said "I know how you feel, but please don't start shit right now."
These people have no idea what oppression is. They think that people having negative opinions of Christianity is "oppression". They think that folks fighting for abortion rights is "oppression" against Christians. They think that folks telling them that they gave no intention to get involved in their religion is "oppression".
They are still allowed to gather freely, to hold positions of power, own homes and businesses, proselytize, protest, etc.
They're just mad that they're finally being called out for their harmful, hateful, and bigoted viewpoints. It's "oppression" because they can't force everyone else to follow their rules.
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100%. Very similar to "the war on men" or "the war on white people".
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Don't make me give you "the look".
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I was curious, so i googled. Was it The Global War on Christianity?
Christianity is illegal in parts of the world. I can understand why Christians in America would read a book about it
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It's easy to see why they feel that way. Imagine an Affirmative Action style of law was passed to prioritize felons to get jobs. Non-felons (who have ALL the advantages) would suddenly find themselves occasionally losing a job a person who is different for genuinely wrong reasons. "I didn't get the accounting job because someone who did time for 3 counts of Wire Fraud applied and got preferential treatment". If that were me, I'd be pissed. In fact, I'd feel a little bit oppressed. I mean, same direction but hitting your later points. What if a law came out protecting people on the sexual predator registry against being discussed or discriminated against? I think you and I could agree to riot in the streets, no? Even though it be protecting a minority from the majority.
As wrong as their mindset is, they think Christianity is the one and only "right thing" wrt religion. So despite being the majority, if someone gets any protection from them for being "wrong", they feel as oppressed as you might feel if you couldn't stop a child predator across from the town's elementary school.. Now you and I know that there's no foundation for Christians to say all other religions are wrong and theirs correct, but Christians who feel that way don't.
Again, it might not help to understand why there's some logic to their complaints, but it's context and knowing our "enemy" can be valuable..
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That's not quite the same thing though because you're talking about giving another group of people preferential treatment over everyone else.
But what things like abortion laws give people is the right to self-determination. No one saying that anyone who doesn't want an abortion has to have an abortion they are just saying that it's an allowable option.
In your example it's like saying that exfelons have the right to have their record sealed once they've served their time. They're not given preferential treatment they're just equalized to everyone else.
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I understand it just fine. And it's still fucked up.
"It's okay to bomb Palestinian civilians because the Jews are God's chosen people and the land was given to them as their divine right" is unforgivable. Yet, it's part of my da's religious belief because "it says so in scripture."
If you're using religion to justify harm, direct or indirect, you're a shit person who has no business telling others how to live their lives. And they can shut their fucking mouths if they try to tell me how they're the real oppressed ones.
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Christmas is a European pagan tradition, really we base our holidays around seasons of which due to the importance of them also feature many religious events.
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I hate that argument because the reason why it's still celebrated isn't the pagan origin but its appropriation by the Christian Church.
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Except for like all the places still celebrating Yule, imbolc, halloween. If Christianity never genocided its way across Europe, we’d still be celebrating at these times with many of the same customs.
Plus if we let the Christian’s get away with stealing everything, we’d have nothing left.
But you’re right, we can do more to remove religion from government.
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I'd argue the reason it's still celebrated is capitalism. Easter is more important in most Christian traditions than Christmas, but less celebrated in society. Why? Follow the money trail. Ask Coca Cola, the modernizer of Santa Claus.
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Just because it was appropriated doesn't mean the original meaning is lost.
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Yes... GOD forbid.
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Todd forbid
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Jeff dyed for your shins!
Specifically, he made these:
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By the nine!
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The Muslim Christian comparison doesn't really hold up, holy days they actually get off happen 2-3 times a year but Muslims have to pray five times a day every day. I would hope if a Christian or any other religion (or heck non religious students who need a mindfulness break) would be respected for a prayer break. Otherwise it would be unfair.
That said more holidays sounds great so by all means give us the Muslim ones off of school too 😎
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You are missing the point.
Easter this year is the 31st of March.
The ENTIRE COUNTRY (the UK this is) will be forced to SHUT DOWN for the weekend, whether they are Christian or not. Banks. Businesses. Everything will close for the entire weekend.
But wait -- it gets worse.
The school year is split into three terms -- Winter, Spring and Summer. And because Easter is so early (because a bunny looked at a gopher's shadow or something) the Spring term starts in January (with the New Year) and ends on the 24th of March (I think). That's barely enough time to get kids settled in their classes. Then the summer term is like A BILLION WEEKS LONG because Easter is so early.
Then --- when Easter is a lot later -- you get the two bank holidays in May (one of which is religious, one of which isn't) that fuck up the summer term and make it almost not worth going back for the one week before you are off again.
This is entirely because of Christian holy days
And on top of all this there is the fact we still keep "Sunday special" -- a day that only one religion gives a crap about. Thankfully we are getting over that and starting to treat Sunday like every other day of the week. But if you ask most people they think it should still be "a rest day" because it is Sunday.
This entire country bends over backwards to accommodate Christianity in everything it does, and yet the Little Englanders always feel Christians are hard-done by.
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Well like I said I have no issues with the holidays being changed! Either adding more or changing the dates so everyone can celebrate their own religious or non religious traditions on the same days. Agree with you about Sundays too, nobody should be forced to work that day but otherwise I don't think it should be treated differently. I don't think that changes the leaving class to pray points though.
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This entire country bends over backwards to accommodate Christianity in everything it does, and yet the Little Englanders always feel Christians are hard-done by.
Might be one of those "you don't respect me as an authority but I'm going to act as if you don't respect me as a person" kinda things.
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I think your anger is misplaced. We don't have to work every single day of the year.
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It is not legally required for places to close for any of these holidays, and a large amount simply do not (whether it's the majority or not I cannot say). I have worked in many places where I don't get these days off.
On these holidays... most people go out and go places which need people working, so businesses choosing to close on these holidays is their own decision, which they should do in my opinion, it's nice to know that you and everyone you know is off. I don't really care why we're having the holiday.
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Christians by the bible and old customs are also supposed to pray in the morning noon and evening. Thats why the churches ring the bell at those times.
So it is only by not taking their religion all too serious anymore that christians dont ask for their noon prayer.
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There seems to be a misunderstanding here. I assume you're referring to Psalm 55. Psalm 55:16-19 (NLT):
But I will call on God,
and the Lord will rescue me.
Morning, noon, and night
I cry out in my distress,
and the Lord hears my voice.
He ransoms me and keeps me safe
from the battle waged against me,
though many still oppose me.
God, who has ruled forever,
will hear me and humble them.That's not a mandate, it's a description of how often David prayed. But there is a mandate in 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18:
Always be joyful. Never stop praying. Be thankful in all circumstances, for this is God’s will for you who belong to Christ Jesus.
God is always listening, and He doesn't like it when prayers (as in people who pray) babble just to check boxes. The same almost certainly applies to scheduled prayers. If there's a legitimate purpose, there's nothing wrong with that, but praying just because it's praying time doesn't make sense. Especially since we're supposed to keep the comms open all the time anyways.
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I know Catholics and Anglicans have liturgy of the hours, but based on what I learned in my studies they have never been mandatory save for priests and nuns! Contrasted with Islam where praying five times a day is one of the five pillars of the faith and salvation is seen as dependent on those.
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For daily prayers, yes that is a daily occurance. We pray 5 times a day but only the afternoon prayers are something we'd need to take a break for.
But you can work around it and you might only need to take a 5 minute break once a day. So like the post and you have mentioned it's not that much of an interruption.
However, Fridays are a different story. We have to go our sermon which might be an hour so. In the US Saturday+Sundays are off so that's not something that would interfere with a work/school schedule. Personally, in our high school we held our own prayers after school on Fridays. But I know for a fact that didn't work for all my Muslim peers.
Holidays are another issue, we'd need to take 2 days off a year to observe our holidays. I wouldn't go as far as so say this is systemic oppression. You just get an excused absence or use pto lol.
Where it would become a problem is if your requests to take off work/school were to be denied. But thankfully that isn't usually an issue in the US.
Besides, in some school districts non-Christian holidays are starting to become recognized and may already be off.
Overall there is a consistent minor friction causes by daily schedule differences. And especially in school a student may never even ask for accommodations for fear of being "different". Even though when you ask generally when you ask you will be accommodated.
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Or, you know, none of that bullshit? We could just let it slip back into the primordial muck with superstition and shitting into our bare hands... But, no. We like our invisible sky daddies and not being collectively intelligent. 🫥
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invisible sky daddies
Oh I am definitely using this phrase from now on. I've been using "imaginary friends" until now, but this is SO much better :)
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How is a common rest day bullshit? Don't take the weekends away. You could even prohibit supermarkets from opening on sunday/Saturday to encourage it. In Germany this is rather common. (But with too many exceptions and little flexibilty)
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Or, like, we could maybe recognize that humankind has always had diversity of beliefs, and just go ahead and respect that fact within reason.
That's the problem with anti-theists pretending their beliefs aren't a religion. By acting like it's something different, you think it gives you permission to call for taking away other's rights. I respect atheism, but people like you can keep your bigoted hypocritical fundamentalist Atheism to yourselves.
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Too ignorant. There is no pretending. Not having a belief is not a belief.
Believers are the hypocritical ones. By definition. And you can be very lucky that religion is still supported by some states. Because it really shouldn't be. Nothing in religion reflects reality.
Might as well invent a tax for used-up mind-energy for people who think a lot. Who cares if mind-energy can be proven, you'll gladly pay it, right? Riiiight? Thoughts have to come from somewhere. The big energy-thought-pool. There should be six days of think-rest per year to protect the energy balance. No thinking allowed. How does that sound? Let me write that down, so people in 1000 years can use my book as proof.
Who are the hypocritical ones, sitting on their holidays and rituals, and forcing them on everyone? It's not the atheists.
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Isn't Hanukkah more comparable to something like Pentecost in importance instead of Christmas? Meaning, not important at all to most of the modern day practioners. And the only reason why it is brought up so much is because it happens to somewhat coincide with Christmas so people can be inclusive with their happy holiday wishes.
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Hanukkah isn't an important religious holiday, but it is an important cultural one. Partly because it's adjacent to Christmas (for north american Jews at least) and partly because the story occurred later on in Jewish history compared to much of the Holy texts.
I don't know anyone who takes days off work for Hanukkah, most just want to be home for sun down to light the candles.
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I see your point but what if a Christian student would refuse to go to school on Sunday because of church? Would they even dare to ask for it?
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I know of a rugby player who refuses to play on Sunday because it conflicts with his religious belief. and while it will not sound plausible that I can't remember his name, I swear I am not making it up.
But I think there is room for give and take -- Muslim students and kids aren't refusing to go to school. They are just being excused for prayers. So demanding to be let out of school all day would be overkill, don't you think?
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This is actually how the US was built. The freedom of religion wasn't meant to all of them but for Christianity. It's why some historians are calling the US a theocracy.
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Can you say Merry Christmas or is that oppressive in the states?
I left the states and started traveling before that became a thing, and I noticed when I visited years later that everyone said happy holidays instead of Merry Christmas.
What's the general culture rule on that now?
Do I say Merry Christmas and then the other person just says happy whatever their holiday is?
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Nobody cares what you say except Fox News addicts who make imagined persecution their entire identity.
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This rings true, thanks
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It's not all fun and games though
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Apparently no one in America has said Merry Christmas since 2010.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSJ0TbSztao
Apart from -- you know -- anyone who wanted to.
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It was also quite confusing as a Brit. Here a "vacation" is called a "holiday". And here the people are not so religious, Christmas is more often celebrated unreligiously now, saying Merry Christmas is not really an issue. The first time I heard "the holiday season", I presumed that meant summer, because people go away on summer holidays then.
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