Linux @lemmy.ml

11mo ago

Gentle reminder to everyone that support for #windows10 ends in about 90 weeks. Many computers can't upgrade to Win 11 so here are your options:

Continue on Win 10 but with higher security risks.
Buy new and expensive hardware that supports Win11.
Try a beginner friendly #Linux distro like #linuxmint. It only takes about two months to acclimate.

@nixCraft @linux @windowscentralbot

185 comments

I know people like to hate on windows here but come on: 90 weeks is another ~18 months. It's near the end of 2025.
While absolutely true, what you're saying, saying 90 weeks instead of any alternative (630 days!) Is just trying to make it sounds worse than it is to push an agenda.
- You're leaving out the context that the time limit should be way longer given how long previous versions of Windows have been supported. Ending Windows 10 support when they are is a deliberate effort to force adoption of Windows 11 and avoid the embarrassment of Windows 8's failure. They learned it's better to scare users into compliance than to actually attract them with well developed, feature rich software. The hardware requirements just make it more egregious.
  Stop giving Microsoft the benefit of the doubt, they have demonstrated more than enough times they don't deserve it. This is them strong arming users into doing something they don't want to do, and it should be rightfully called out for what it is: shitty.
  
  the time limit should be way longer given how long previous versions of Windows have been supported.
  What version would that be?
  Windows XP: 2001-10-25 to 2014-04-08, ~12.5 years
  Windows Vista: 2007-01-30 to 2017-04-11, ~10 years
  Windows 7: 2009-10-22 to 2020-01-14, ~10 years
  Windows 8/8.1: 2012-10-26 to 2023-01-10, ~10 years
  Windows 10: 2015-07-29 to 2025-10-14, ~10 years
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_Windows_versions
  
  the time limit should be way longer given how long previous versions of Windows have been supported.
  The lifecycle of Win10 is actually pretty similar to that of the previous versions, which is about ~10 years. The only difference with Win10 is that it went without a successor for so long, that they've basically skipped one major release, leading to this relatively small timeframe between a new Windows and the EOL of the previous version.
  I agree though. Given the circumstances they should've made an an exception and increased the lifespan for at least one or two years.
- 90 weeks is more like 20 month and i could calculate that off of my head by knowing that a year has 52 weeks. I would have struggled more with days.
  You could make this criticism about any date metric that it gets more or less easy to translate into a different metric.
  Weeks are perfectly fine and most commonly used in the business context.
  
  Your point about weeks is irrelevant, if OP wanted to be clear with the information they would have said the easiest term (about 2 years)
- I agree. This post seems like a half-assed attempt to get people to switch to Linux. 90 weeks. Jesus.
- You have 5443200 seconds to make your choice.
- What agenda? Freedom? Geesh, kid...

How long until Steam drops support on W10?
That's the important event, lol
- Probably around the time developers to start requiring W11. That TPM requirement is going to be abused to hell and back.
  
  What incentive is there for a developer to abuse that?
- I am using windows 10 on my tv pc so that's all I cae about.
- Well they only just dropped support for Win7 and that came out in 2009.

I missed the "90 weeks" bit - you made it sound like it was coming soon, you cheeky scamp.
Windows 10 will reach end of support on October 14, 2025. The current version, 22H2, will be the final version of Windows 10, and all editions will remain in support with monthly security update releases through that date.
from Microsoft's lifecycle website
- Yeah who measures that timeframe in weeks, sheesh
- Gives me these kinda vibes.

But...but...I was told W10 was the last OS I'd ever have to install!!
Edit: context
- While Microsoft Vice President for Operating Systems Terry Myerson didn’t exactly say that when he kicked off the Jan. 21 presentation of the company’s plans for Windows 10, that message was still clear.
  Extrapolation by the writer in order to generate clicks by having a catchy headline? Impossible!
  Microsoft just mentioned that the update procedure would make it so users running out of date and unsafe machines on the internet would not be an issue anymore, not that they would support W10 forever.
  
  Jerry Nixon definitely said Windows 10 would be the last big release of windows, and for years, sourced reporting parroted that there will be no Windows 11.
  "Right now we're releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we're all still working on Windows 10," said Jerry Nixon, Microsoft's developer evangelist, at the Ignite tech conference.
  There's no shortage of the claim being made by MS staff during keynote speeches, and those same people being quoted saying as much in reporting by TechRadar, The Verge, PC Mag, Ars Technica, CNET, for example.
  
  Conveniently, everybody interpreted as such

I understand you want people to switch to Linux but
90 weeks is far away. It drops in October 2025
You'll still get security updates for a few years
After that there will be paid support which people will get around and find ways to install
Windows 10 LTSC (best version of Windows IMO) still exists. The Enterprise LTSC version will have support till 2027 and the IoT version will have support till 2032. You can get them if you know how to look around
- Plus, you can actually install Windows 11 on the same hardware as Windows 10 pretty easily. Microsoft just does not want you to.
- Its quite difficult to get legit LTSC licenses unless you're a large org.
  Last time I looked into it anyway. You can buy ltsc keys from third parties but AFAIK Microsoft will deactivate the license if they realize how you acquired it.
  
  I'll just leave this here for educational purposes https://massgrave.dev/ https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts
  
  Yeah I wasn't talking about getting it the legal way. They don't care unless you're a business.
- All the more time for Valve to expand on Proton and push Linux compatibility, and for EA and the rest to get their thumbs out of their collective asses and support it at all

So just a minute ago I thought "Get fucked, HP" and now I'm thinking "Get fucked, Microsoft". What a day.
- These are both thoughts you should hold in perpetuity anyhow.
- How long do you think is reasonable for a vendor to support their old software version once they release a new one? If they drop support in 2025, Windows 10 will have had 10 years of support. It was released back when Linux kernel 4.0 was the latest version. Would you expect distros today to support a 4.x kernel? (yes, I know RHEL still does)
  You can still get longer-term support if you pay.
  
  Not making the switch dependent on hardware upgrades would be a requisite for me. Maaany people (and things like expensive, tightly integrated industrial systems) can't just switch to a machine that supports Win11. Also, Microsoft promised Win10 would be their last windows version, receiving continual upgrades. So I repeat: Get fucked, Microsoft

I'm sorry, what?....Oh, all I heard was that my linux home server is going to be running on new hardware in about a year and a half when all these used computers go on sale. 😁
- Except that realistically people will continue to run the same machines just without security updates.
  
  People will, but most businesses won't, so you can expect a wave of cheap server hardware and business notebooks.

I don't get why people are removing support for Windows 10. Nobody likes Windows 11 and Windows 10 is the most popular operating system with no change of that in sight.
- Windows 10 is Windows 11 at this point (look at the UI and AI features)
  
  Yeah they said that about Windows 8 too and I sat my happy ass on 7 until 10 came out.

it's gonna be "funny": I won't create a personal account to login to crap 11 (because why should I, if you can't login to a desktop OS without a 3rd party account, that's not an OS, but a gatekeeper shit), which is mandatory. So, my work machine will become unusable, therefore in fact Microsoft put my work therefore my livelihood in danger..... [edit: typos]
- Just this week I installed W11 on a laptop (temporarily, I just wanted to see how it ran on this hardware), and despite being connected to the it asked me, by default, for a username for the local account. I don't know why, but it didn't ask for a MS account first.
  
  Pretty sure this is configurable in the OOBE of the installer. At least, it used to be in older versions.
  
  Was this a recent windows 11 version, from Microsoft directly? And what version of 11 (Home, Pro, etc) And what region?
  The OOBE changes based on a lot of factors, but generally speaking, most users will encounter the forced account creation screen.
  You can get around it by typing in "no@thanks.com" or some other bullshit. Or use the "Domain join instead" option, and then just...don't join it to a domain.
- It's not mandatory to have an account to run win11. Press shift+f10 during the install to open a command prompt. Enter OOBE\BYPASSNRO into the prompt, system will reboot, disconnect the internet, when it prompts you for internet click "I don't have internet".
  
  Easy peasy
  
  And why didn't they just do this as the default?
  
  What happens if you don’t have internet connected in the first place?
- work machine
  You do not need a Microsoft account to join a domain.
- if your sys admin keeps TPM on - and they would have to be nuts to turn it off - you'll be opening an account.

Once Windows 10 loses support I'm moving to XP for security
- I was trying to make a Windows XP compatible app last month and my god is it ever difficult. Nothing works on XP anymore, so it's insanely hard to test/develop software. All the legacy download links are dead too, so you can't go install older versions of things either.
  
  Try making an app that runs on 23 year old Linux (GTK1 o/). The fact anybody still uses XP in any context is insane.
  
  Windows XP was introduced 20 years after the sale of the first IBM PC in 1981.
  It has one been 23 years since then!
  Things certainly changed a lot more before than after.
  
  I did this for React os
  
  .NET 4.0 runs on XP and it is still very easy to create a .NET 4.0 application on a more modern machine. A well tested .NET app will deploy and run on Windows XP with few surprises. You cannot ask for better tooling. So, I would not say that creating new software for XP is really all that hard.
  If you want to be much cooler but put in more work, check this out!
  https://github.com/rust9x/rust/wiki

Anyone that still wants a supported version of win 10, look into Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC (2021) - supported until 2032 and can be activated by MAS with HWID
- You said a lot of things I don't understand
  
  It's a version of Windows 10 targeted at businesses that choose to run Windows on "Internet of Things" devices. It is a "Long Term Service Channel" release that receives primarily security updates (little to no features updates), because the devices that will use this need to be in service for a very long time. Enterprise Windows typically activates with a licensing server that's subscription based. But you can use the "Microsoft Activation Scripts" to activate it as if it were a retail copy you pick up the store.

90 weeks? I guess I can have another baby, and then after a while make a decision on what to do with my W10 VM installation
- VMs can emulate TPM cant they? Win11 still sucks but at least it will work.
  
  There is a TPM emulation, yes, 1.1, 2.0 - you choose
  
  Any decent motherboard built in the last 10 years should have a TPM chip onboard.

I’ve seen non-tech users in Linux many times. It doesn’t take them 2 months to acclimatise, at most 2 weeks but typically just 2 days. If there’s a blocker, there’s a blocker (like “my shitty bank requires some shitty software installed and they don’t support Linux”) but if there are no blockers it’s really quick. 95% of normal users just need a browser. The next 4% need LibreOffice. It’s only the last 1% that have some need that doesn’t sit in an office package or the browser.
We, the gamers, the geeks, the golems, WE have needs that may not be satisfied with Linux. But we are not normal users. So about 3% of us can be bothered to try and accept the missing software (and learn to love the new - God there are some apps I miss when in Windows), the remaining 97% either try and can’t accept the new habits required or don’t try.
But normal users?! Stick them in Mint Linux and show them where the browser is and they’ll be fine.
IMHO.
- Normal users don't even need a PC. Most of what they do can be handled on a phone or tablet.
- Further evidence for this is ChromeOS. It's just a Linux distro, but worse. It does little more than run Chrome. Yet it's popular. Anyone that tolerates ChromeOS would have an even better time on most of the standard distros if they had someone to set it up for them.
- We, the gamers, the geeks, the golems
  What does 'golem' mean in this context?
  
  I’m old. I’m low-end overweight. I don’t shave for days. I’ve been in tech for decades. I was describing myself and my ilk as golems.
  Also, it just happened to alliterate with gamers and geeks.
  
  I am curios too!
- Why is Libre Office always the goto? I've been trying every MS Office alternative and Libre is way down on this list. It doesn't compare. In my searching, I even found video of the creators seeming more keen to (rightly) blame MS for compatibility issues. Meanwhile alternatives just work with the reality and reduce differences in exchanging files from the world's most common option. Plus, and this is more personal, Libre Office is dog doo ugly. Ditto for Gimp.
  As someone newer to Linux, people really don't emphasize enough the need to find alternative software that fits into one's life. It's all fine to say it's all just new setups and once you learn them your good, but most world interactions with tech that isn't your own will be Windows. Why fight the stream when you Don't have to? There are lot of alternate Office programs is what I am saying and some are almost as good as massively funded MS Office.
  
  Dunno really. I hardly use any office app except for Excel on Windows. What are the best alternatives in your view?

People can also get an extra 3 years of extended updates, at that point TPM 2.0 integration in consumer devices will be close to 10 years old...
It's also possible to install W11 without TPM 2.0 and from what I've seen, it works without any issues.
- Yep, when you make a Windows installer USB with Rufus it has the option to disable TPM requirement and the need for a Microsoft account.

I'm a certified Microsoft hater, but man, 90 weeks? I get it, we want Gnu-Linux to be more streamlined, but his is certainly not the way. This is tech fearmongering.
- Honestly, this isn't really fearmongering. It's just fact in this post and nothing is exaggerated.
  
  Yeah. Did you know that Andromeda Galaxy will collide with Milky Way in 4.5 billion years? Gotta watch out for that one as well.

Seriously considering the switch. I already have basic familiarity because of work with raspi.
In the past, it's been support for adobe suite that has stopped me. My livelihood depends on it. Afaik theres still no native version. Can it run on wine? If so, is there a performance hit?
- Older versions of some Adobe software will run, but generally no.
- You can have both. I hear dual booting has gotten a lot safer lately, but I prefer to keep windows contained in a virtual machine, which has the added benefit of snapshots for when windows update eventually does something I didn't approve. Maintaining windows is so much less stressful when it's not running on bare metal.
  If you're very worried about performance, then you probably will need new hardware by the time you need to make this decision anyway. I've never actually purchased windows directly; I just find an upgrade that bundles an OEM key if I need a new Windows.
- Some Adobe stuff runs in a web browser nowadays through WASM but if you've submitted to Adobe, Linux likely won't be a possibility.

Friendly tutorial for those looking to swap to an easy-to-use modern distro!

A thing I wish more Linux enthusiasts were more up front about: And prepare for PAPER CUTS! Because they're there. Most Linux folks ^1 probably do 5-6 things a day that new folks would find confusing or infuriating, just because they Get Used To It.
A perfect example: My Linux desktop is a System76 Thelio-r2 running Manjaro KDE latest, which I LOVE. Every time I boot it up, if I want to use my BT speakers or headphones ^2 I have to go into the BT settings panel, wonder why it says "Bluetooth Disabled - Enable Bluetooth", click the button, and move on with my day.
Turns out this is because of a kernel bug in the latest kernel versions with Intel bluetooth hardware. The driver times out at system boot, and thus the system is disabled by default. By the time you're fully booted, that time out never happens so if you just click Enable, you're good to go.
And these things are additive. They pile up and increase frustration for end users who aren't savvy enough to know which forums to search on or what search terms to pump into their search engines.
This does not mean you shouldn't try Linux. Please do! It can be a life changer and a serious power up! But be aware that the path will have many small roadblocks that need to be traversed, so just set your expectations accordingly, explore and have fun!
^1: I use Windows, Linux and Mac as need dictates. Let "tool to task" be the whole of the law :)
^2: Perfect example: Many Linux users wouldn't use Bluetooth speakers! They'd get wired ones or one of those RF thingies that has long time Linux driver support. But if you're new, you don't know that!
- I gave Manjaro a shot recently and Bluetooth was 90% unusable for anything but my mouse. Keyboard? Nope. Headset? Nope. Other headset? Nope. Bluetooth speaker? Nope. Unfortunately, it is a brand new Intel motherboard, so I can't even get WiFi as athk12 or whatever isn't really done. I was shocked I could get bluetooth to work at all. Sound wasn't that great through a USB headset either, but then I could at least hear people. For me, I can really only use trackballs now and the USB port on the mouse is for charging only. Bluetooth compatibility is very very important to me and it still being shitty on any system in 2024 blows my damn mind.
  Only other potential issue would be something with how Proxmox is doing passthrough, but I had just as much trouble pairing with Debian underneath through the terminal as I did with the Manjaro VM. On another note, the GPU passthrough is amazing and I had a good time playing games for the first time on Linux. This machine was never intended for gaming, but I thought it would be fun to take a server to a LAN party. Sliger case for the win! Just a 3U.
  
  Yeah, "brand new" hardware is rough in the Linux-verse :) I think Linux advocates need to be more up front with that as well. Quite a number of them are rocking 15 year old Thinkpads because that's what they read will maximize compatibility.
  
  Partial list of things you haven't tried or researched?
  There is another list for realtek, you have to know the specific chip you need fw for.
  bcm20702a1--fw BCM20702A1
  bcm20702b0--fw BCM20702B0
  bcm20703a1--fw BCM20703A1
  bcm43142a0--fw BCM43142A0
  bcm4335c0--fw BCM4335C0
  bcm4350c5--fw BCM4350C5
  bcm4356a2--fw BCM4356A2
  @jadedwench @feoh
  
  Linux kernels are YEARS ahead of anything MS or Mac can handle.
  It just takes a little learning and patience to deal with a system that belongs in the future.
  Linux users complain about the kernel being so advanced and big covering industrial hw and hw not yet released in the market.
  @jadedwench @feoh

Option3: give and give hard to reactos and hope for a usable product by win10s death
- Why if there are so good gnulinux distros nowadays and most software is already working there?
- ReactOS is a cool project but ultimately pointless compared to the other free alternatives we have, with libre ecosystems.
  ROS is built to be a drop in replacement for the Windows operating system, while retaining all other components of the system (like proprietary drivers, programs, etc).

Today I watched a video about some information on Windows 12 hardware support. Video concluded with basically saying that if you own a laptop you will be forced to throw it away and buy another one. It's sad because it isn't true.
- Here's hoping it floods the market with really cheap new and used "old" laptops
- Windows 12? It's sad because it isn't true? I'm confused.
  
  It's sad that people think they wouldn't be able to use their laptops. As far as I know nothing in that video is confirmed but it's still sad that people think their old hardware that works should be replaced just because they can't run new Windows version.

Is it still that many computers that cannot upgrade, btw? They dropped all the TPM requirements later IIRC? Doesn't that then include most PCs?
- They haven’t dropped the requirement, but you have to manually go in and disable that check yourself on the windows 11 installer if you want to install it on a non-tpm 2.0 machine
  Basically, it’s a faff that only the techie people will realistically do. Everyone else will just go out and buy new hardware.
  
  For those wondering, no it isn't just a check box. You need to create some registry files.

I expect a jump in Linux users, which is of course great news. Albeit in time I expect even more Tech companies to get into the space too, which is not optimal. As I expect them to corrupt a lot of open source projects.

That is so misleading, when you can just disable the TPM 2.0 requirements with a single click in Rufus
- That's a great tip.
- And then hardly anything will work, so whats the point ?
  If your system doesn't have a TPM chip, you can still emulate it in softtware, but then everything will run like molasses, so again basically poitnless.
  
  I have installed Windows 11 on my old Thinkpad x230 and everything works as it should. You are just talking out of your ass

CLickbait bullshit and everyone that upvoted is responsible. This is stupid, you can do better.

This is how it could look like from now on https://fedoraproject.org/silverblue/
- Add forge plugin to your Gnome desktop and adjust it‘s settings 😉 it’s ducking awesome! And if you are already in your extension-manager, browse the top popular extensions, it is worth the time. No OS frontend is as nice as GNOME with the right extensions.
  
  forge is awesome! Currently, I love PaperWM. Here are some suggestions

Sysadmin noises

1 it is.

Last I checked windows 11 can be installed without TPM support. I think rufus even has a simple checkbox for it and Chris Titus's winutil can modify an ISO to do the sams
- I would assume this breaks some kind of license agreement.
  
  AFAIK CTT's tool literally uses Microsoft provided tooling.
  Edit: it's the same tooling used by companies to modify their own windows installs

Given the break-neck pace of development, I am sure the ReactOS folks will be ready.
https://reactos.org/

Backport fixes manually
use rufus to bypass hardware requirements, enforced account and bitlocker

I'm thinking of trying a dual-boot in the future. Does Linux play nice with Window's filesystems or does it still require its own partition?
- It requires it's own partition to not have issues. It can see into your windows partition however, if required.

I’ve been wanting to ditch Windows for a while now. I’ve tried dual booting so that I only boot to Windows if I need to play some game that only works on it.
But usually the thing I do the most on my PC is: play videogames. And majority of the games I enjoy are using 3rd party anti-cheats such as EAC and so on. And to my understanding, there are no really a good ways to get those games work on linux at this moment.
Sure, if I played mostly Linux supported games or single player games (I guess big chunk of those work thanks to Steam and Proton) there would be no such a big issue but I am not willing to quit some of these games just so I can make the switch to Linux.
But what I have decided on is that W10 will be my last Windows on my home PC.
I am curious, if anyone has been in similar situation and have come up with a good solution? Maybe two PCs + KVM switch?
Surely if I search the internet I can find many solutions but I am interested to see what this community has to say about this.
- I have used Linux as my main for 20 years, but I have a dedicated windows computer for games (hooked to my TV in the living room). A lot of my steam games work in Linux nowadays, but the windows computer just works without fuss. I use it ONLY for games and turn it off when I'm not playing anything.
  Ironically some older games (older win95/98/XP era games) work better in Linux under wine or emulation...
  I have also used a windows vm with gpu pass-through to play games on my Linux machine, though I'm sure a lot of your anti cheat would probably not allow that. I don't bother with that anymore since so many games work in Linux with proton.
  For non-gaming use I feel that 99% of dual boot scenarios should probably just be virtual machines instead. I have a windows VM I fire up for proprietary software or work related stuff when necessary.
- I switched to Linux three years ago. I was dual booting until I realised I was barely launching windows anymore. So I just removed it. But just to be sure it wouldn't be an issue if I ever needed windows again, I installed it on an external ssd with rufus, and it's actually more handy than your usual dual booting. I had the same issue with some games not yet properly working on Linux (like Vermintide) but in the end it was solved and I ended up never using windows for anything...the last two times I've had to use it was to unlock the Iphone of a friend and to make a pesky printer work...and it was half a year ago.
- I actually used to run a Linux laptop + Win laptop setup with a kvm switch a couple years back. It worked just fine, but I found myself barely even using my Windows machine for anything but gaming. Eventually I found out my games ran perfectly on Linux, and ended up switching to linux on the second laptop as well, as navigating the windows desktop had become painfully clunky, lol
  tl;dr: a kvm setup is great but be careful what you wish for. Once you start running Linux there is no going back...
- @niske @ajayiyer
  I have an old potato laptop with two SSDs, i dual boot between Win10 and OpenSuse.
  I have tried using Linux only but it's not ideal for games, there is notable difference in FPS drop with directx games running on Linux (especially on old PCs like mine).
  So I use win10 for gaming and Linux for everything else (surfing web, movies, manage documents, small rpi projects).
  It's a good compromise for me.
  
  I'd say gaming on Linux can be great but it heavily depends on your hardware and what you play (also it's getting better over time so with all that we're on a constant «your mileage may vary» situation) .
  On old/potato machines though, yeah it has more chances to be less ideal than windows in most situations. (I am only talking from experiences with various computers, to be clear. I am sure it can be less or more optimistic for others.)

I'll probably procrastinate finding a solution for so long that I'll end up running my Win10 installation airgapped on a separate PC made from ancient spare parts

The moment steam ends support for win10, is the moment I fully switch to Linux.
- Why wait? Carpe Linux.

Does the bypass not still work?
- It does, you can manually install windows 11 even without the hardware "requirements"
  Everyone is fear mongering over this. It's the same shit how windows 10 didn't officially support a bunch of systems but you could install it anyway.
  
  Currently running a desktop on W11 on "unsupported hardware". Even managed to get it onto a 15 year old machine running a first gen i7 920 and not even a hint of a TPM module as an experiment and it worked perfectly fine.
- Sure, but then pretty well nothing will work, so what's the point ?
  
  Stuff breaks?

Go to windows 10 enterprise to 2025 or if you want as little windows as possible go with windows 10 ltsc and you have support until end of 2032

I'll wait until the 11th hour, start testing the kids out on Debian and steam see if proton can bridge the gap for them. Wife is Mac. My servers are already Linux One of my laptops is already Debian. Anything else I have from work that needs Windows is already new enough to run 11.
I do have a camera server running win 10 and blue iris. Not really sure what to do there. I have a lot of time wrapped up in Blue Iris on that box and I seriously doubt I'll be able to run hardware acceleration in any type of compatibility layer. That box may just get cordoned off from the internet and network, or I'll do a upgrade hack.

Us low spec gamers cannot afford losing at least 10 fps in some games, so it seems we're tied to win 10 for the time being.
- There's still around two more years of support for Windows 10. By that time, it shouldn't be too expensive to upgrade some components to some second-hand ones that perform better than your current ones.
- Another option may be to use Windows Server 2022 Eval. You may run in to problems with software refusing to run on a server though. The initial eval lasts 180 days, but you can run a command to extend that 5 times (don’t quote me on the exact number) which will give you an updated system for years to come.

I only use 2 PCs with windows. An old laptop with XP I use for vehicle diagnostics and repair manuals, and a Win10 laptop my employer lent me for work. Option number 1 for both.

I would advise #linux over anything proprietary to begin with.
If you want to really go the w11 way it is not as restrictive as they make it sound, in fact in 90% of the cases it says it can't it can.
8GB of ram and GPT partitioning!
Many w10 were upgraded from w7-8-9 and retained the DOS/mbr and w10 would work with either part.table. Win-setup says it can't auto-upgrade but it can install if you delete the partitions and start with clean disk.
@ajayiyer @nixCraft @linux @windowscentralbot
- @yianiris @ajayiyer @nixCraft @linux @windowscentralbot most of windows users don't even know what is a partition... talking about GPT, you can be sure they'll interpret this as something related to ChatGPT... :ablobcatknitsweats:
  also on my side, I have a w10 running in VM, with MBR.
  cloned the VM and upgraded it to w11 took me time and I had to do a lot of tech stuff for the GPT
  not hard, but technical; too technical for most of Windows users probably..
  
  Some people have spare time to learn a thing or two, some people have spare cash to buy new hw when MS tells them to.
  We are not all equal :)
  We have a government that enforces and maintains inequality, otherwise equalization would come natural, and with some social organization.
  @grum999 @ajayiyer @nixCraft @linux @windowscentralbot
  
  I was reading what it would take to run a legal copy of w10/11 in a vm since the vm doesn't provide the chip to embed the license (post 5th gen intel and similar amd) and I almost threw up with MS disgusting policies of trying to sell more and more for every use.
  If your mb gets fried you have to call up and authorize the transfer of license ...
  You can't buy a $50 refurbished with sticker and get a free license for w11 :)
  @grum999 @ajayiyer @nixCraft @linux @windowscentralbot

.. safest bet is get a 2nd clean ssd replace, install w11 then copy user data into new installation.
@ajayiyer @nixCraft @linux @windowscentralbot

I haven't been getting updates on 10 for about 5 years or so and I'm feeling fine to be honest.

@ajayiyer that is, assuming they don’t release new Windows versions

Hardware that cannot support windows 11 is likely near the end of its useable life right now, so in two years people might be justified in considering buying a new and actually functional computer.
- You only need to go back to intel 7th gen to lose support. These are CPUs from 2017 that are still more than capable today.
  
  and in 2 years they will be even less capable. like someone else in this thread pointed out—the op was very baity. I know this is a linux community but trying to scare people into adopting seems weird.

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