One in 100 people in Gaza has been killed since October 7
One in 100 people in Gaza has been killed since October 7
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One in 100 people in Gaza has been killed since October 7 | CNN
162 comments
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I wonder how Israeli historians will remember this. Will they take take position of Germany and grow or US and justify all the shit because "we had to do it, we're great"
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They will deny it. They already making sure to get rid of all journalists and refuse visa for new one.
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Internationall, it's a known fact. Of course the current goverment will try to deny it but in some (many) years in a different political context they might acknowledge it... Guess we'll see.
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They're already saying “we had to do it, we’re great”. It'll take some government toppling before that tune changes.
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it will need a boycott and sanctions on the international level for israelis to change. netty is in power by a coalition of parties that gained voters after this. no consequences, and israelis won't change their behaviour.
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History and how it went is written by the winners not losers. Germany and the US took those stances because of who lost and who won. As long as israel „wins“ (in whatever definition) it will write its history as a winner.
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That’s a meme, it’s not how history works or how it ever has worked.
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As the rate of Palestinian children killed by Israel to Israelis killed by Hamas surpasses the infamous 10-to-1 of Nazi killings of random villagers in Occupied France in reprisal for German deaths at the hands of the French Resistance, the pro-Israel propagandists are still calling Israeli actions as "defense".
This is quite consistent with the last couple of decades of Israeli propaganda: Palestinians and even Arabs in general are always portrayed as "violent" (not Hamas or Hezbullah being violent, rather the entire etnical group is painted as "violent") and follows the playbook from Goebbels and the one generally used by Fascists (not just Nazis, though in terms of rabid racism, the Nazi kind of Fascism is the closest one to the what's voiced and the acts of the Israeli leadership and their military) were the target etnicity is painted as "violent" and "attacking us", thus justifying mass murder as "defense" or "protecting ourselves".
I expect the history they write will be anchored on that fantasy of "defense", whitewashing the extreme disproportion in deaths -most of which civilians - that would otherwise make it painfully obvious that what's being done is far beyond "defense", beyond even the racist kind of "reprisals" (racist because all Palestinians are made to pay for the acts of the tiny fraction of them which is Hamas) and into "ethnic cleansing" territory.
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Today's evidence will be hard to destroy and deny. Cameras and shit.
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Move along. No genocide to see here.
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Betcha there are people already arguing that it can't be genocide if you only kill 1% of the population.
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Saw that argument just a few days ago.
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What a fucking disaster. Netanyahu and Hamas have been quite the blight on mankind
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While Hamas is reprehensible and undoubtedly evil, the blood shed by Netanyahu and his policies would make the entire country of Qatar blush.
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Forgive my ignorance, but I was always wondering why is it such a faux pau to show support to Palestine? From how I understand it, and that may be wrong, hence the question, the regular Palestinian people are occupied not only by Israel on the outside, but also by a terrorist group, HAMAS, at home. Which is basically a dictatorship, thats not afraid to openly use terror tactics. It's a lose-lose situation, and the only thing you can do is hope youre not going to be one of the 1/100 that dies to a random strike.
When there are innocent people in a situation like that, the least we can do is show them some support.
Or do majority of people in Palestine actually support HAMAS and the war? I feel like in missing something, because the backslash to people who show an ounce of support for Palestine is massive, and I don't really get why. I just want regular people who aren't terrorists to live at peace :(
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It's manufactured. The US government unquestionably supports Israel and doesn't wanna threaten their
remote military baserelationship, so they act to silence dissidents and quench protests, such as by trying to equate criticism of Israel's government with antisemitism.-
The problem is that it's easy for the interested parties to equate it to antisemitism when intermixed with legitimate protest of Israel's horrendous actions are actual antisemites coopting the conversation for their own purposes. Antisemitism is at it's highest point in my entire lifetime. Things to note: Muslim Israelis (about 20% of their population) support Israel's wartime actions at about the same rate as Jewish Israelis. Also, the language used in opposition to, or in support of, Israel in this conflict is different than in comparable one sided wars.
To be clear I want to reiterate that i think what Israel is doing is undeniably awful, but I think antisemitism, and anti Muslim sentiments, color how people interpret and talk about what is happening irrespective of government officials agendas. It's absolutely part of the conversation whether we like it or not, and we have to navigate that as part of the larger conversation. This isn't to say I don't agree with you, it is bullshit to just paint everything as antisemitism.
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Or do majority of people in Palestine actually support HAMAS and the war?
Idk if the majority support Hamas specifically, but most Palestinians support resistance fighters, including Hamas, mostly because peaceful diplomacy with Israel has proven to be impossible.
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Is it really a faux-pas? It probably depends on where you live and the people you live amongst. Where I live, it seems like only the extreme right (the successors of the people who helped the nazi's genocide the Jews) + orthodox Jews support Israel unequivocally. Most others don't see it as black and white and still consider Palestinians as humans who need hope and prospects, which they're obviously not getting under Israeli occupation.
The majority of Palestinians in Palestine apparently support Hamas, but it's likely that they would not be supporting Hamas if Israel had been acting in good faith and not been slowly (a lot faster now obviously, but they were going slowly for years) ethnically cleansing them from Palestine. It's kinda a chicken and egg situation.
If Rabin had not been murdered by an extremist israeli in 1995, there might have been peace now in those lands, but instead Israel is now being lead by those extremists and they aren't interested in peace or co-existence.
Coincidentally, there was a recent media event in my country event where a celebrity publicly displayed support for Palestinians.
She had this to say: "Raising a Palestinian flag does NOT mean that I support Hamas or that I hate Jews or that I am okay with innocent civilians - wherever they live - being killed. It means that I want all wars and all genocides to end." https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2024/01/08/laura-tesoro-palestijnse-vlag/
Public reactions (in dutch): https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20240107_96484050 The minister Jan Jambon was in his youth a member of the local fascist party and is pretty vocal that he would like his current (more mainstream) party to collaborate in the future with that fascist party. So that he thinks that it is a "faux-pas" to express support for Palestinians, does not surprise me in the least.
Edited because of grammar.
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Off course I'd rather live under, and support the dictator terrorists if my other option was genocidal aparthied nazis who force me to live deprived from all freedoms like a caged animal and regularly get bombed.
Yes Hamas is a bad terrorist dictatorship, but they did not kill 1 in every 100 Gazan, and they are only in power because they live in an open-air prison and regularly get bombed by an occupier controlling their food, water, and electricity and keeping them like caged animal.
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I mean it is a fact that Hamas has a lot of support at home. They have won elections. This is because they build schools and deliver services at home, and take a defiant stand against Israel. However this all gets collapsed to “Palestinians support terrorism” by the disingenuous, trusting everyone in Gaza with terrorism. I’m NOT saying this is valid - just pointing out how it comes about.
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I think the basic reasoning is some form of:
"If you support Palestina, you are against Israel. And you can't be against Israel, because then you are an anti-semite and that means you support Hitler."
It's mainly prevelant in western countries that historically support Israel. I do think a big part of that is some historical shame/feeling the Jewish people are owed something, given the genocide they had to endure in WW2. And of course a touch of geopolitics. And right wing politicians using Israel as a way to position themselves (I guess they hate Muslims more than Jews?).
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It was at around 14% not too long ago. Although considering the situation, it has probably increased as a result of the relentless bombing campaigns, restrictions of food, water, electricity, and humanitarian aid
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I fear when the world will start to ignore Palestine again
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It's already happening.
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That started in 1948
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What percent of Americans died in the 9/11 attacks? How many 9/11s is this?
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Since no one answered your question. I'll assume you were just curious about the numbers. It's easy enough to answer.
Around 23k civilians in Gaza have been killed by Israel since October 7th. On 9/11 2001, around 2.6k were killed in those attacks. So, around 8.8 “worth” of 9/11s.
Given 94 days since October 7th, it would be a “9/11 amount of civilian casualties” every 10.6 days.
Or perhaps:
A “Hamas October 7th” every 5 days. For over 3 months straight.
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As this wasn't a terrorist attack, a closer analogue is a recent war.
One estimate puts civilian casualties in the Battle of Mosul at around 40,000
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I'd be willing to bet good money that this is pretty fucking terrorising to the people who live in Gaza.
It's also predictable to see your username on every post about Israel doing evil shit. Always taking the apologetic tone. Not to wrap myself in tinfoil, but, you wouldn't be part of some propaganda machinery, right? Perhaps just a sucker for one?
Oh, and where were we on the "Do you condemn Israel for its genocide"? Ifs and buts, still, I presume?
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Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of intentional violence and fear to achieve political or ideological aims. The term is used in this regard primarily to refer to intentional violence during peacetime or in the context of war against non-combatants (mostly civilians and neutral military personnel)
Sure seems to fit the wiki description at least
“Kurdish intelligence believes that over 40,000 civilians have been killed as a result of massive firepower used against them, especially by the federal police, air strikes and Isis itself,” Mr Zebari added. Mr Zebari, a native of Mosul and top Kurdish official who has served as the Iraqi finance minister and prior to that foreign minister, emphasised in an exclusive interview that the unrelenting artillery bombardment by units of the Iraqi federal police, in practice a heavily armed military unit, had caused immense destruction and loss of life in west Mosul.
40k dead in around 9 months, largely from bombing campaigns
Israel is at around 23k dead in around 4 months, not yet including the potential dead under all the rubble from the residential areas, hospitals, and schools being bombed. Also not including those who will die of dehydration, starvation, and disease due to Israel artificially restricting food, water, electricity, fuel, and humanitarian aid.
These are also two different situations. Do you think Israel is an apartheid state?
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My sympathy for Israel is pretty much gone now.
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They definitely got played like a fiddle and did exactly what their enemies wanted them to do.
The ripple effects of this genocide is going to ruin their ability to have normal state relations and any semblance of security for generations.
Israel lost the long game, because they reacted and failed to choose to respond.
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Let me just clarify that this is my sympathy for the State of Israel that I'm talking about, not my attitude toward Jewish people in general who have nothing to do with this.
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Germany was so much more efficient, take pointers you hypocrits
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Germany killed 60% of European Jews between 1933 and 1945, which is 5% per year or 1.25% every three months.
Israel has killed 1% of Gaza's population in three months, and if they maintain current pace will be at 4% per year.
So they're 80% as efficient if they sustain the current rate. Not a huge discrepancy.
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About 1500 people were killed or taken hostage by Hamas. That attack was horrific and wrong, and sadly Israel has done their best to ensure that their response is equally horrific and wrong. Because their idea of morality is to be equivalent to Hamas, while telling you Hamas is evil. Their thinking is so far up their own asses on this.
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Fuck "equally wrong". They've been marching way ahead since before 1949.
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IDF has been leading the pack for quite sometime
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What is Israel supposed to do? I'm genuinely asking. I'm not implying what they have done is what should've happened but I'm genuinely puzzled what the imagined alternative would have been. You don't react to Hamas's attack by packing up your shit and leaving. You don't respond to it by asking what your enemy would like you to do differently so that this doesn't happen again. You retaliate. It's blatantly obvious that's what you do especially since they have a superior military. How do you retaliate? That is the question I'd like answered. What is a reasonable and justifiable retaliation to their act?
If you catch a kid throwing rocks at windows you don't shoot them or punch them in the face but you don't pat them on the head either and give them candy. There are better and worse ways to deal with it here.
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You legitimately target Hamas with actual precision attacks. If they're hiding under a hospital, you go down there and deal with them, you don't bomb the fucking hospital.
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How do you retaliate? That is the question I’d like answered. What is a reasonable and justifiable retaliation to their act?
Retaliation is in the first place a wrong answer, because Hamas's whole existence is retaliation to Israel's aggression against Palestinians.
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They could do literally anything other than indiscriminate artillery and bombing campaigns. They target hospitals, schools, and refugee camps and you ask "what else are they supposed to do?"
Considering Gaza is inside of Israel technically, and Israeli intelligence is some of the best and most funded in the entire world, the IDF should have a very clear understanding of where Hamas militants are.
The IDF is equipped with all of the latest American toys. They know how to find people that don't want to be found. They're just doing genocide.
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What is this hospital bombing everyone is talking about? Every single article I'm finding is about the Al-Alhi incident.
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Politically obviously there's not going to be electoral punishment in Israel for killing people who cant vote in your elections. This isnt even about retaliation its about retaliation theater. Obviously the people they're killing mostly had nothing to do with the attacks.
They could drop less bombs but it seems like the Israeli army is understaffed and they're unwilling to conscript their yahoo settlers and take them away from harassing the west bank to send them to gaza where at least they might kill less children than the neighborhood leveling air strikes.
If the weapon supply line were threatened to be cut off, Israeli politicians would reluctantly dial down the genocide and they've even suggested as much. But so far it hasn't happened yet because whoever stops this will be blamed for the next terror attack (and there will 100% be another one) and will become enemy #1 in Israel.
So Joe Biden is cowardly hoping some european countries decide to do something so he doesn't become the guy who pisses off the Imperial outpost in the middle east.
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Genocide Joe going full steam ahead with this through the election. Let's see how well the Democrats can do winning the Nazi vote.
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I see this argument a lot, and I am absolutely a hardliner on genocide. That said, I am also aware that a second Trump presidency will be the end of our nation as we know it. It used to be so simple when voting for candidates - it was "evil" vs "more of the same", but now it's "evil" vs "genocide as a foreign policy."
What is the exit strategy for us as a nation? How many times can we stave off a Republican presidency? Even voting blue we are slipping right - how many times can we vote for the Democrats until we've made so many concessions that the blue guy is just exactly equivalent to the current red guy?
I'm really trying to argue in good faith. If someone has a decent answer to this, I'd love to hear their side. Otherwise it seems to me like we are headed for some kind of civil war in this country.
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You think the Trump and the Republicans will be any better?
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Ah yes, the classic centrist appeal to esteemed colleagues on the “other side” of the political spectrum. Leave it to Dems to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, somehow handing a win to the criminal former president McDrinkBleach
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Ah the classic IDF appeal for Genocide Joe.
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Sigh.
Gaza is under occupation by Israel, according to almost every NGO that matters, including the UN. The war has been going on since 1970.
And before you call it "the biggest massacre of Jews since the holocaust" ask the IDF how many Jews they killed between October 7th and 9th.
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Oh yes. It's always the Palestinians "starting" it. Don't mind the settlers, the Palestinians arrested and held for years without trial, the random house searches by the IDF, the protestors shot by snipers, the blockade that's been in place for decades, or anything else.
It's always their fault, you just have to ignore everything Israel has been doing, right back to the initial terrorist campaign against the British soldiers.
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A lot of those dead people probably didn't actually start the war.
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Is Biden an idiot for blindly supporting Israel? Yes.
But every fucking President since Truman has done the exact same thing ... including Trump.
So sit down and shut up already.
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People are responsible for the things they do. And the fact that your electoral system gives you the choice between Genocide Joe and Diaper Donald doesn’t mean there is a good guy between them. Electoralism has failed if this is the choice, and change should be looked for outside of it, you can still vote for whatever candidate is the least bad but don’t be smug about the fact that you did something good and be done for the next four years. If things keep going the way they’re going, there is going to be another Republican president in the future, either Trump or someone more dangerous and competent.
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Uh... No. Biden is uniquely horrible in this. He's going above and beyond what most other non-Trump presidents would do.
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Yet Palestinian support for the Hamas terrorists just continues to grow. So weird thinking it's 2024, and they're having a fucking religious war over there.
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That’s because they believe that Hamas’s attack on Oct 7 was in retaliation for Israel’s prior actions while Israel is using Oct 7 to retaliate against all of Palestine. Palestinians are going to support the side that is not bombing them and that they believe is standing up to the persecution they’ve experienced up until and including now.
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"Ukraine: It’s Not ‘Retaliation’ When You’re Fighting for National Survival"
I just saw this title on lemmy underneath this post.
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You'd have to be a fucking moron to believe that bombing Palestinian civilians would make them support Hamas less.
We already went over this in WW2. Mass murdering civilians doesn't break them, it actually increases their resolve. It's obvious Israel doesn't give a shit about destroying Hamas since they're choosing to ignore 80 years of lessons in counterinsurgency warfare.
If someone kills your wife, you aren't going to think "well gee maybe I should get along with her murderers now". You're going to look for revenge or justice, and the only people offering anything close to that in Palestine are Hamas.
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This is to be expected. The past ~20 years has been very bad for diplomacy with Israel. When it Israel actually engages in diplomacy with it's Palestinian population the population Hamas plummets.
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do you have a source with dates for this?
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Well duh. What did you think would happen? That they start loving Israel?
You can't beat people to stop hating you.
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You have to realize. They are literally idiots.
They're in prison, being fed propaganda with no future, too many kids, too many problems no education. It's hardly their choice unfortunately.
We need to feel pity not contempt.
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