12mo ago

How I cannot be worry??

103 comments

This is mine.
- Well, your first problem is you have too many arrows.
  
  Better?

Do you have a problem?
Yes
Can you do something about it?
I DONT KNOW
P A N I K

People usually worry because "Can you do something about it -> Yes" involves something unpleasant or work intensive stuff with strict time limit.
- I usually worry because "Can you do something about is" is an uncertain variable where I'm not sure how much control I truly have
  
  Also, just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. Maybe it’s a small problem, so you decide to ignore it, and you choose to focus on other, more important things.
- I'm not sure I'd agree with that generalisation.
  Is that why you personally worry about something?
  
  Yes, I'm lazy and surrounded by even lazier deadbeats.
- When the pain of the solution is less than the pain of the problem, things change.

Do you have a problem? Yes, I don’t have enough money for bills + food.
Can you do something about it? No, I’m on a fixed income.
Then don’t worry. Uh…
- I mean if a meteor is coming, I'm not worrying.
  
  Yeah the usual mental worrying part is if you're just not sure enough if the problem is actually in your reach or not.
  
  I agree. Not sure that necessarily means we’re mentally stable.
- Well, worrying about it certainly won't do anything to improve the situation
- You CAN do something: change you job, study something to improve your skills, change country if you must.
  
  The important point is not to do something, but rather to solve the problem. And some people simply can't, and it sucks.
  
  sure let me just walk to a better country
  hey wait why are there people with guns around me
  
  Not always. For example, I’m 100% disabled with a neurodegenerative disease for which there’s no treatment or cure.
  This is good advice if you’re not locked in a situation entirely out of your control, but for plenty of people it’s not that simple.

Except for the Yes -> Then Don't Worry part. If there is something that can be done then it should probably be done. Which will take time/effort/expense/cooperation.
- Agreed but I think the implication is more "if you can do something about it, then there's nothing to worry about."
  
  That’s the entire joke lol

My problem is that the "Can you do something about it?" is always unclear, I go back and forth until it consumes my thoughts.
- It's ultimately easy to tell apart because the things in our control have vastly different qualities from those which are not. Quoth Epictetus:
  Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our own actions.
  The things in our control are by nature free, unrestrained, unhindered; but those not in our control are weak, slavish, restrained, belonging to others. Remember, then, that if you suppose that things which are slavish by nature are also free, and that what belongs to others is your own, then you will be hindered. You will lament, you will be disturbed, and you will find fault both with gods and men. But if you suppose that only to be your own which is your own, and what belongs to others such as it really is, then no one will ever compel you or restrain you. Further, you will find fault with no one or accuse no one. You will do nothing against your will. No one will hurt you, you will have no enemies, and you not be harmed.
  Aiming therefore at such great things, remember that you must not allow yourself to be carried, even with a slight tendency, towards the attainment of lesser things. Instead, you must entirely quit some things and for the present postpone the rest. But if you would both have these great things, along with power and riches, then you will not gain even the latter, because you aim at the former too: but you will absolutely fail of the former, by which alone happiness and freedom are achieved.
  Work, therefore to be able to say to every harsh appearance, "You are but an appearance, and not absolutely the thing you appear to be." And then examine it by those rules which you have, and first, and chiefly, by this: whether it concerns the things which are in our own control, or those which are not; and, if it concerns anything not in our control, be prepared to say that it is nothing to you.
  Now the list of things under our control might seem small -- but it's actually real control. You can't control that an arrow you shoot will hit the target, a gust of wind may take it away and you're not controlling the wind. Have the opinion (under your control) that you shall hit, and that gust of wind comes, and when you miss you'll be wretched, so don't have that opinion. But still do take that shot unless it's impossible, in which case find a possible one.
- Well, going back and forth is another problem. You should come up with one next step to get closer to solving the problem.
  For example, I'm living paycheck to paycheck and don't have enough to save for "big expense." The next step is to cut something or find a side job to break the paycheck to paycheck cycle. Once you have a small savings, you can take more risks, like look for a better job, buy stuff in bulk to save money longer term, etc.
  You don't need to solve the entire problem, just figure out what the next baby step toward a solution is.
- I try to tell myself that I can't do anything about it to calm down, then I find a solution and I can do something about it

Why don't you simply turn off the unwanted emotion??
That's how emotions work, right? Right, that's how they work.
- TBH it's a learned skill to stop worrying about something if there's nothing productive you can do for that problem.

Explaining this diagram to a guy in the middle of a plane crash, but he just keeps screaming and pounding at the windows.
- In the afterlife, first thing he'll say is 'Don't EVEN say it..."

I’ve gotten decent at this, but it has taken years of practicing the skill, plus trying various medications. Not to mention a couple of job losses during covid.
The fun combo of adhd and anxiety made this a necessity if I wanted to generally enjoy life.
The ability to not worry about shit sounds simple, but it is much easier said than done. It’s like a muscle that you have to exercise and build up.
Here are the elevator pitched for three topics that helped me:
Mediation/mindfulness: I listened to some Buddhist talks, and liked the way some of them explained focusing on your breath and stepping back to observe your own emotions without embracing those feelings at the time. And you have compassion for yourself, and not judge things negatively. Just observe what is. It’s something you can practice at any time, and the more you do it, the more you can stay in that state while doing other things. There is also a big component of controlling your desires, because those are often a big component of suffering.
Philosophy: around the same time, I was reading stoic philosophy. Marcus Aurelius is the big name there. The bottom line is that regardless of what happens to you, the way that you internally process it and react to it is what really determines how it affects your life & mental state. So with practice, time, and sometimes medication, you are more and more in control of your mental state and how things affect you.
Acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT): The world around you is what it is, so instead of worrying about things you can’t control, you accept the true state of things and then filter that through your personal values to decide how to act.
Some common themes here, to be sure. Along with being able to better control your thoughts and emotions, it’s about finding contentment and tranquility in whatever your life looks like. Not because everything is great, but because your mental state is much more important than reacting how you “should” react.
- I just wanted to say I appreciate the way you wrote this and didn't hide the fact it's taken you a lot of work, and is an ongoing practice. I see these types of things get suggested far too often without that context. "Just meditate" really takes away from how much discipline over years or a lifetime it takes. There's nothing easy or quick about it, and it takes a lot of courage to keep it up.
  
  Thanks, I appreciate your reply!
  And yeah, I guess it’s easy to gloss over the ongoing nature sometimes. People think “how do I fix myself” but there isn’t ever a fix. There are incremental improvements as long as you’re working at it. But then one day, you look back and realize it has accumulated into a big difference.

My brain:
Do you have a problem? -> No -> FREAK OUT!
- Do you have a problem? -> No -> Create a problem

This cannot reasonably be how mentally healthy people react though, because this would seem to suggest that the healthy thing to do is to never worry about anything at all, in which case, what utility would have led to that emotion evolving in the first place?
- You worry about uncertainty. There is no uncertainty in this flow chart. Worrying about things that are defined and known is not healthy, but that's not to say that stable people never worry about things they know the solution to or never worry even though there aren't any real problems. The distinction really is if you're able to make yourself stop worry or not, in a healthy way, or if worry consumes you to the point of anxiety.
  
  Yup, I rarely worry because I'm prepared for a lot of the most likely issues that could come up. We have:
  a healthy emergency fund, so we can weather unemployment
  food in storage, so we can handle a natural disaster for a least a couple weeks
  two cars and flexible work, so we can handle a car going kaput
  space heaters, so we can handle the furnace going out in the winter
  And so on. The more prepared I am, the less I worry. However, it's impossible to prepare for everything, so I do worry, but I'm able to make that very infrequent with planning.

Replace "Then don't worry" with "If you really think about it you should definitely be worried" and this is my life.
- I mean, that's how my ADHD and anxiety combo works: every waking moment is either
  A: really thinking about everything, including completely inconsequential stuff, my brain making me super worried about most of it
  Or
  B: trying with various degrees of success to distract myself away from doing A. This in turn often tends to make me forget things that I DO need to be aware of, such as appointments etc, worsening A.
  It's so fucking exhausting tbh 😮‍💨
  
  Also, deliberately ignoring things you're worrying about backfires when they do come to pass, because then you feel guilty for ignoring them and like you're losing control.
  At least it's like that for me. Perhaps not for you, I hope so!
- I guess the thing missing from the chart is "can you do something about it?" -> "do something" -> "don't worry." Worry is only useful in that it prompts us to go "this thing could be a problem" and take action to address it. If we can't do anything about it (or aren't deciding to do something) then devoting energy and thought cycles to worrying doesn't benefit us.

This is how I think, but my girlfriend doesn't, so sometimes it's really frustrating. I think she is addicted to worrying.
- It can be difficult. My partner has anxiety all the time and it is hard to impart the sense of security and stability that I have to her.
  
  Yeah anxiety is a curse. And "just stop worrying" doesn't help.
- Yup, we're the same way. My SO keeps worrying, "what if X happens? What if Y happens?" and they don't seem to like my answer of, "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it." We're quite stable financially, so we're prepared to handle pretty much any surprise, yet she still worries about random things.
  I think some people are just predisposed to anxiety. I'm glad I don't have to deal with that.
  
  Yeah we also have money to handle if something surprising happens, but somehow it doesn't help her worries either.
  It's not every day she worries, but when she does, it's a bit exhausting to listen to, specially since there isn't any action to take to fix it.

If the answer is 'maybe' then you are allowed to worry.

Anything -> worry

I used being like that, I miss being like that.
- Same here. I actually just decided last night that I hate who I am so much that I'm going to "kill myself" in that I'm going to try to completely kill off the person that I "was."
  I have a lot of respect for transgender people who sort of go through a similar thing so I'm taking inspiration from them and saying old asafum is dead, I killed him, and in his place I'll be a new asafum.
  
  I've had much more success with just embracing who I am, flaws included, than with trying to change my nature. I was able to achieve much more by stopping to try to be someone I'm not.
  But your mileage may vary of course.
  
  If you can't get a big tiddy goth gf, then become the big tiddy goth gf.
  Fill your house with arcane and esoteric items of dubious origin simply because they make you happy (bootleg pokemon figurines). Join a coven (D&D group or whatever other hobby) and join together for rituals that reignite the connection with nature that exists in all of us (hang out and touch some grass; pet a dog/cat, it'll literally reduce your risk of heart disease). Become the witch who lives at the end of the street, creating strange brews that heal the sick (start a garden and cook homemade soup for your friends). Create a new family bound not by blood, but by bonds forged through hardship and triumph both. Move in with a girl that historians will refer to as your "good friend" and roommate.
  Realize that it's all you, and it always has been. That the person you were was simply the shell you created to protect yourself from the world. You are the big tiddy goth gf of your dreams and you can be the big tiddy goth gf that other people dream of, and all you have to do is let go of your shackles (and your facial hair).

But worrying about it is what gives the motivation to do something about it.
- Worrying about problems definitely helps to keep you alive, but the motivation to do something ideally comes from a prefrontal cortex desire to improve rather than a fight or flight response to threats.

I dont wanna worry, i really dont.
i wish it would be like that.
I may not be able to do anything for certain things but they are exactly what is really doing me in right now, how am i supposed to NOT worry.
- You're homeless, just buy a house.
  You're sick, just stop.
  You're sad, just don't.
  You're depressed, just be happy.
  Duh
  
  Vomiting into the toilet with zen tranquility, because I understand why seven tequilas was a mistake and am simply undergoing the aftermath of my decision.
  Staring down the barrel of a gun and experiencing perfect serenity because the universe is beyond my control.
  Strapped to a chair and having my fingers tenderized with a meat mallet, but its okay, because all my available decisions have been made.
  Literally on fire, but this is fine, because there's nothing around to put me out.
- Yeah, sometimes life be like that.
  One thing that has helped me is to figure out what the consequences are for failure. If I don't pay my credit card bill, my credit will get dinged and I may have to deal with a lawsuit some months down the road for failure to pay. Or if I don't pay my rent, I'll be kicked out and need to stay with friends or go to the local homeless shelter. Even if the consequences really suck, knowing what they are helps me stop worrying about what they could be.
  The next step is to take a small step toward solving the problem. Maybe I can't financially handle losing my job today, but I can save a little cash so I'll be able to handle losing it in a few months. Making some progress feels good, even if the progress is slow. Keep coming up with a baby step toward a solution and you'll eventually get there. Maybe you save some cash this month, then spend the cash on something to help you save more next month (e.g. maybe buy a staple in bulk to save per unit).

It's actually a conscious decision to worry or not. For many people this thought concept is calming: it was so unlikely, that this little ape we all descend from, even survived in that unyielding nature. But the ape even prospered. If the ape survived for hundreds of thousands of years, you will too. You can make money again. You will find a roof over your head every time. Fear feeds fear, just put it on a diet. It's not that you have to do something, you just have to do nothing. Do you breathe? There. You believe in yourself, otherwise you wouldn't.
Have a nice one

Do you have a problem? If yes, then it should consume your thoughts so you don't have any ability to think of a solution... If no, then you must've forgotten something...

Ah, yes. If they think they can do something about it, then they are completely mentally stable.

Do I have a problem?
No -> Don't Worry. Yes -> Can I do something -> No -> What the worst possible outcomes and how will I deal with them? Can I do something -> Yes -> What the worst possible outcomes and how can I negate them to only have best outcomes.
Worrying is good, preparedness makes it easier.
- Except when it becomes an anxiety disorder.
- That's not worrying though. Worrying is unproductive fear of the unknown, your steps eliminate the unknown and use logic to solve the problem. That's good, but you need to be able to break the worry cycle so your logical brain can step in.

I have generalized anxiety disorder and adhd. I wish i could control my anxiety and impulsive thoughts completely

It was also a bitter revelations to me when I met some optimistic people and figured out that it's not everyone who's a defeatist pessimistic piece of shit like me. :/

This is how to drive other people, especially coworkers, insane. That’s all that is.

This is how a lazy detached person's brain works.

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