1y ago

I'm returning my Lenovo laptop that gave me tons of compatibility issues and getting this Dell XPS 13 instead. Thoughts?

I'm going with this Dell and returning my Lenovo Slim 7 Pro. In my previous thread saying I switched to Windows I read that Dells offer great compatibility. I ordered this Dell XPS 13 and plan on going with Pop OS. Thoughts on this? Good choice?

Edit: Apparently it's certified with Ubuntu 20.04 LTS. I assume I should go with This particular Ubuntu version then?

98 comments

If you don't care about using a webcam (it's very unstable on linux), the machine is good. However, if you want to use a linux laptop, get a linux laptop, not something conceived for windows with linux as an afterthought. https://linuxpreloaded.com/ has a list of shops that sell linux first hardware
system76
purism
~~framework~~ comment below says it's not linux first
Malibal
Tuxedo Computers
If you do however insist on buying something that's windows first, it's advisable to check the linux hardware database with your model first. For example, here's the model you're buying. Somewhat consistently, these components aren't recognized across distros:
Alder Lake Imaging Signal Processor
Goodix USB2.0 MISC
USB Bridge
and no webcam is detected at all. Having one of the Dell XPS 13s myself, I'd rather go for a TuxedoComputers laptop if given the choice, but if you don't have that option and don't care about the webcam, then it's good choice.
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
- Just want to add that Framework isn't quite Linux first, more like Linux second / Linux conscious. With some tweaking it works great but there are sometimes little issues that crop up, especially if you're using the newest machines.
  For example, when I got my Intel 12th gen Framework last year, X was super laggy (opening a terminal and typing a few characters might take several seconds). You'd have to end up disabling some kernel power management setting. That was fixed in later kernel releases and was because it was new hardware, but their focus pre-release was making sure Windows worked well on it, not Linux. Technically even now there's some kind of conflict between the ambient light sensor and the screen brightness keys and the fix has always been to disable the light sensor, so I've never actually used that feature on my laptop (unsure why Windows is unaffected).
  It's still a great laptop and I absolutely love them, but I think other shops like System76 should get credit for their top-tier Linux support.
  
  Thanks for the comment. That was the impression I got as well, but a few other comments I've read (on other threads) seemed to imply it was a linux first laptop.
  I do remember the first time I opened the page, it was a windows laptop and was the reason I decided against buying one. Your comment does confirm it for me. I'll add a note to my previous comment.
  CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
  
  I had my framework AMD and I havent encountered any problem with fedora 39; besides very early bios (only affecting batch 1 and early batch 2, I believe) and a AMD display bug (which is documented in detail and fixable with one command).
  Everything else works extremely smoothly, including webcam, brightness key, ambient light sensor, and privacy shutter. Honestly, I would put their support against any linux first laptop, their support team is very responsive, and their support lead was the ex-support lead from system 76.
  One more bit of information: the very laptop on the fedora workstation webpage is a framework laptop. They seem to be on very good term with most distro developers, and likely will get more attention when something goes wrong.
  I think most of the problem you mentioned are the nature of new hardware, not caused by poor support from framework.
  However, one of the reason I landed on framework is because they offer cutting-edge hardware that other manufactures don't.
  I think they are still the only linux manufacture that uses AMD 7040U chip, which is a great everyday chip with excellent power efficiency. This kind of make them stand out from the competition for me.
- What was your issue with the webcam? It may depend on the distro but mine works well even though I almost always use an external camera instead because most webcam quality sucks on any laptop and OS anyway.
  Supporting Linux/open-source companies is certainly a plus. Not that there machines will work better but it makes more sense if you really want to adhere to the global philosophy of open-source. For the record I still didn't go that route because either I couldn't find the right machine or the price was significantly higher for similar products and I didn't take the "risk" to spend more without enough certainty on the build quality. Experience varies and I'm sad to say that I convinced a friend to switch to Linux and he immediately jump on a Tuxedo machine but unfortunately it had a lot of issues out of the box. One remains but I will not blame the company for this one (compatibility with a hiDPI external monitor).
  
  The webcam straight up doesn't work on ubuntu and debian, which are supposed to be supported. I've tried multiple things from around the web ("add this apt repo", "enable/disable this kernel module", "use this git repo with dkms", ...) and consistently ran into issues. Now I just use an external camera.
  Other people around me with the same or similar models had the exact same problem and there are many posts online about Dell's weird camera choice. It sours the experience quite a bit, IMO.
  Tuxedo Computers has been a painless experience for me. Even got a relative one and after updating, everything works without issues and has been for a while now. Haven't heard any complaints.
  CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

The Lenovo Slim series of the past couple years are absolutely broken for any kind of non-Windows operation. Stay away.
- Yep glad I'm able to return it!
- But how? Are they ARM?

I think the XPS 13 is a nice device.
For reference: I think your mistake was buying a Lenovo laptop without the word "ThinkPad" in the name. There are Lenovo Thinkpad something devices. They are (usually) more likely to support Linux. And there are Lenovo comsumer devices and they're a mixed bag.
- This is what I came here to say. Specifically the T, P, & W series ThinkPads. I’ve never had issues with Ubuntu or Fedora on any of those. Unfortunately, Lenovo’s been “diluting” the brand with things like the ThinkPad Yoga line.
  
  Agree to disagree. My laptop is in fact a ThinkPad Yoga 460. And I'm quite happy with it! What's the issue with that line? I mean there are also Yogas without the ThinkPad, which makes it confusing. But I just skip past the showcased laptops that don't have the nipple mouse. And I've talked to my dealer a few years after I bought that device and he told me lots of other customers had hardware issues. So I think there are some quality issues, but that is a known problem also for other ThinkPads since after the IBM times.
- I used to love Thinkpad laptops up until Lenovo bought the line - build quality dropped off a cliff after that. I've avoided them since then so I can't comment on their current build qualities except to say they used to be built stronger than those toughbooks with handles.
  
  I had a X61, I think that was shortly after Lenovo started building them and still very much like the models before. But that was a long long time ago.
  
  I’ve had good ones and meh ones. In terms of build quality, the X1 Carbon gen3 I got ages ago was outstanding in most respects (including how easy it is to get the back off), but the memory is unfortunately soldered and the CPU is decidedly mid-field, and it was a refurb so I couldn’t really up-spec it. The T14 gen2 (AMD) I got a couple years ago and use as a personal dev machine these days has WAY better hardware (Ryzen7 5850U; 16g soldered + 16g SODIMM), but the build quality is not as nice and the back is WAY more of a pain to get off (fucking plastic clip sections).
  I’ve had no real issues with either in terms of Linux compatibility; I’ve installed various distros on both of them, but generally have settled on to Ubuntu or Fedora for long periods. The old X1 is back to windows now though, simply because I am repairing and modifying a car with an OBD-II port, and it’s way simpler to use pretty much any automotive diagnostic software from a windows platform, and I wasn’t using it for anything else.
  Edit: also my old IBM T60p from college - iirc one of the last ones they made before Lenovo bought them. Bloody thing just refuses to die lol

XPS 13 generally has good compatibility with Linux. You can check Ubuntu certified models here. I personally went with Framework instead.

Would have sworn yesterday you made a lengthy post saying you switched back to windows? What the hell happened in 14 hours?
- Sometimes when people are given suggestions for things to try they actually take them into consideration. I know this is highly usual these days as people only want to constantly argue online, but I legitimately take advice to try new things.
  Some people in that thread gave me ideas to have less headaches with Linux, so I'm going to try them out.
  
  This is a great personal quality you're wielding. Welcome aboard to Linux land!
- The comments in the other thread convinced OP to try a Dell.
- Probably read more about Windows.

I have great experience with my framework AMD, excellent Linux hardware support and excellent support team. I have never encountered less problem on any system I own, including dell and hp.
Linux specific manufactures like system 76, tuxedo, slimbook, starlab, and nova custom are also great options, but I cannot endorse them since I never used any of them.
With framework, you get:
assembled in Taiwan, with many components made in Taiwan
more "cutting-edge" hardware (might require some minor tweaking, like running couple commands; but they have extremely detailed documentations on these tweaks).
better upgradablity (upgrade CPU, main board and battery)
3:2 display with reasonable DPI (but need fractional scaling)
With other linux manufacture, you have
(some) coreboot, system76 even has intel ME disabled.
standard screen resolution (1080P is bit grainy for me but you dont need fractional scaling)
preconfigured and preinstalled linux distro; 100% works out of the box, no tweaking or command.
BTW, I think most of these laptops have great windows support as well (but check before you buy), so you are not locked into linux.
- Another vote for the framework. They are the only manufacturer actively supporting Windows and Linux.
  
  I think tuxedo (do not offer to pre-install Windows), nova custom, slim book, starlab also officially supports Windows 11. But framework definitely have much more detailed documentation on configuring Windows.
  In general, if they are using common consumer hardware that supports linux, then it is almost guaranteed to have pretty good windows support as well.

On kbin the thumbnail for this post is a nude woman sucking a lollipop. WTF
- Do you have a link to that?
  You know… just so I know what it is and don’t click on it by accident.
  
  Look at the link through kbin and you'll see it
  https://kbin.social/m/linux@lemmy.ml/t/727861/I-m-returning-my-Lenovo-laptop-that-gave-me-tons-of
- and it directs me to best buy for some reason?
- I really wish they'd fix this issue already. I've never seen it persistent on any other website before.
  
  You know "they" is one dude, right?
- This is the only way I have seen porn on kbin, even after going out of my way to subscribe to the NSFW magazines in kbin. No porn has even shown up in my feed.
  
  It’s a bit like the 80s or 90s when we had to rely on the porn we could scavenge. Kids today do not know the significance of a Sears catalog.
  
  Sometimes I see the rare post when I sort by Newest but it almost feels like kbin is giving 18+ submissions a low priority or something. Meanwhile when I check through my Beehaw account I see a lot of it, relatively speaking. Definitely far more than on kbin.
- Best buy’s attempt to stop people hotlinking images?

Dell laptops have mostly just worked on Linux quite well, but you may run into issues with the camera, however this hack(?) has worked for me: https://github.com/stefanpartheym/archlinux-ipu6-webcam.
I believe Dell has a catch for the camera saying that it may use more CPU when in use. Whilst the laptop is Ubuntu Certified, the camera only works if you select the Ubuntu option instead of Windows, and use the install they give you.
Some other nice things to have:
fwupd should also work for firmware updates, hopefully. My speakers sounded worse on Linux than Windows, some tinkering with hdataskretask helped a little, however it's still worse.
This should let you change some bios settings, like changing charge limits and thermal profile (cool, performance, balanced etc): https://github.com/dell/libsmbios
This GNOME shell extension allows you to change charge limits easily: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/5724/battery-health-charging/
- Thank you for mentioning libsmbios, I had tried to change the power mode but given up , turned out that libsmbios was already installed and working!

Brand does not matter. You will likely get in trouble with any new laptop model. Install the latest kernel, and probably most of them will be gone. But some can be fixed only after a year or so.
My Dell with preinstalled Ubuntu had a fingerprint scanner not working, wifi chip losing connection and disabled "subwoofer" (lol). After a year or two of upgrading a distro everything works (well, I mapped subwoofer output in config and idk if this still needed or not).

Dell > Lenovo most days. Buy the Ubuntu edition to spurn the Windows license, then install whatever.
- The Lenovo business models (ThinkPad series) are amazing value. My 11 year old laptop is still going strong.
  Just stay far away from any Lenovo non-business models.
- I’ve been wondering what the best non-Mac laptop is. Like something that’s premium feeling without being the same price as a Mac.
  I have a Lenovo laptop-14 that I really like, but it’s a bit thick and the screen is a bit dim at times. The speakers are also very quiet.
  Is an xps what I should be looking at?

Get a thinkpad?

If you want to use Linux on your laptop, is there any reason not to go for 'dedicated' Linux laptops?
FWIW, I haven't seen these Linux-first vendors being mentioned under your post yet: NovaCustom and Star Labs.

Get a framework. I have a Dell and upgrading the kernel breaks the trackpad /wifi/bluetooth sometimes. I had to hold the kernel package. Really regret not getting a framework

Get a proper lenovo thinkpad it's way better than a Dell. My x1 carbon is amazing.

XPS13 has very highly positive reviews from several sources. I've had the same dilemma as you 3 years ago and went with the XPS13 9310 and I'm extremely happy with it. So much that I bought an on sale Razer Book 13 for my wife since it's almost an XPS 13 with a different name.
Note that I don't have the "developer" version of the XPS but it runs with no issues at all. I can install Linux myself, don't need someone to do that for me and I'm not using Ubuntu anyway. Also, the delivery delay were insane when I bought it and I was extremely lucky to find a "regular" version in one of my local stores.
I've tried a lot of laptops over 30 years and no brand was convincing enough to get me returning to them every time. I just go where I can find the hardware I need enclosed in a well-enough robust case and I'm done. All the parts are sold by the same manufacturers anyway. The difference between brands is just which parts are assembled together and how well it's done.
As a bonus, it's also nice that the firmware of the XPS 13 (including the bios) can be updated with fwupd.

Don't know about Pop OS, but I'm running an XPS 13 (9380) with Arch using Wayland without any issues.
- Same, I would go to Arch (for me the best distro, it's clean), and if you want something easier just Linux Mint.
  EDIT: I would forget about PopOS, really think this distro suck.

XPS machine are generally pretty well built machines. But 1300 for a 12th gen machine right after 14th gen has just come out?
I don't think Dell has 14th gen based XPS 13 yet but I wouldn't pay MSRP for a machine with a 2 year old CPU. I'm sure you can find it for a lot less elsewhere.
- Using slightly older architecture has better support for Linux. Compatibility is the most important thing to me here and this chip is Ubuntu certified.
  
  In terms of what matters for compatibility 12th and 13th gen are largely the same, just a better P core. iGPU is identical, chipsets are largely the same etc. 14th gen almost certainly will post a problem, but 13th gen is a nice step up.
  Alternatively just pay a lot less for the machine. I'm surprised best buy has the balls to list it for that much without any discounts. With 14th gen rolling out I'd hope prices will tank on those machines, if not new then used they're getting close to the 3 year mark and their value will plummet.

Out of curiosity, why not go for something that supports Linux out of the box? Why stock to mainstream?
- Dell supports pre-installed Ubuntu on the XPS Plus configuration. You can order it with Ubuntu installed out of their webshop. They also have repos for all the drivers.
  
  Ubuntu LTS in general ships with very out-dated software. Many software are lacking in many useful features.
  Although most of this can be mitigated with virtual environment of your programming language of choice, or flatpak/snap/appimage. There are several, like libreoffice, latex, and DE, are not so easy to fix.
  I am not convinced LTS is a good environment for most users.

Specs look good for the price, and those machine work great with Linux (I'm using Ubuntu 22.04 on the slightly earlier 9310 right now).
The only slight downside of the 9315 is that the SSD is soldered to the motherboard. Make sure you back up your data regularly, because there might be no way to get anything off the machine if it breaks.
There's also something of a lack of IO; just one USB-C on each side (which is nice, because you can plug the charger into either side). But I have no issues with Bluetooth headphones, and monitors with USB-C have always worked great for plugging larger numbers of peripherals in.
- I ordered a docking station to provide a HDMI 2.1 port and some more USB options along with an Ethernet port.
  
  I have one of these 9-in-1 usb-c hubs.
  It blows my mind that so much can be handled by such a small single cable.

I bought a xps 13 9370 and several years and two self-replaced batteries later, I'm not noticing even a hint of age related slowdown. I thought the lack of USB-A ports would be a problem, but it wasn't. I have run Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Mint, Manjaro, Arch, EndeavorOS, Solus, MXLinux, Debian, OpenSUSE, Fedora, and many others on this machine with minimal issues. I don't know about the models after mine, but the 9370 was a solid choice.

I've had bad experience with Dell and their chargers. Took 2-3 attempts at an RMA to get a working one.
I am currently running a Klevo (branded as Gigabyte) laptop and its working great for my needs.
Also it looks like the Framework Laptop is in budget for you. Not sure if you've looked into them.

Xps 13 is a great laptop. Personally I would install arch or artix in it.

On Ubuntu 22.04 me and a relative tried to fix the sound on the XPS 13 9315. Neither of us found an easy fix. We hopped distribution to get it working, hope you have better luck with 20.04.
- What distro did you end up using?
  
  Arch 🤮

I have Lenovo and not happy with it. Weird issues like unable to start it when battery has run out and it's plugged into docking station. Need to wait like 15 mins before it even turns on.
Also issues with docking stations (from Dell) not showing external screen unless i unplug the cable at boot and then put it in during boot.
I guess all this could be because I run Linux though but I'm just not happy with the laptop.
I would get a framework laptop as a next one.

God I love Kbin, never change
- Yeah, the randomness keeps things spicy. Upvoting a thread and getting the error page just makes me want to try to upvote things harder

Get a thinkpad (I've been liking my T14)

For Linux compatibility, something like this https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/ would be better than Dell XPS 13.
- The XPS 13 series (with the "developer" name addition that has nothing to do with development, but hey ...) has official Linux support (Ubuntu).
  Dell maintains an own repo for it and provides all drivers and first installation images for the devices.
  
  Yeah, I knew it, I still would get a TUXEDO computer, something like TUXEDO InfinityBook S 15 - Gen8, the DELL XPS 13 is very small, small keyboard, very portable but not really nice to work with. And TUXEDO looks much more into Linux than DELL.
- I can finance through Best Buy via their credit card which is why I'm going with the Dell.
  
  Dell XPS 13 with the "developer" label is also pretty nice so it's all good, but check that it has the "developer" label, or it will be not designed to be compatible, if I'm not wrong, the main difference is the Wi-Fi adapter. Also, out of this topic, careful with the finance and credit card, it's always a scam unless you really need it to work I wouldn't spend money that I don't have.
  EDIT: About the compatibility, on this Reddit post, people are saying there is not really any difference https://www.reddit.com/r/Dell/comments/fjb9na/difference_between_the_standard_and_developer/, and I think the Wi-Fi adapter was only on the old versions (years ago when I bought mine). Haha... 😛

From what I heard, the Dell XPS 13 is one option to run a Linux distro, but it isn't the only option. Should it not work for you, another alternative you could consider is the Acer Swift 3. That's the laptop I currently own, and I run Arch Linux on it. I have not yet encountered any issues with it. Prior to running Arch, I have tried Linux Mint and Pop OS on it. I wouldn't recommend Linux Mint on a laptop, not because it's a bad distro (Linux Mint is quite good as a beginner distro), but because the Cinnamon DE isn't great for laptops. The GNOME and Cosmic DE are more suited for laptop workflows.

I've been using XPS 13 as my "daily driver" for about 4-ish years now (I think the 9300 model came out in late 2019? Maybe 2020. I can't remeber tbh). It's been running Debian and I've never really had any problems with it. I didn't order the Developer Model as I wasn't going to run Ubuntu and I don't really need Linux preinstalled (and as added bonus, it comes with Windows OEM license, which you can use in your QEMU).
It has a shit battery time, but so does every Linux laptop. I don't want biometrics on my devices, so I've never used the facescanning or figerprint sensors, no idea if they work, I'd assume they do.
I've connected it to a USB-C hub with dual 1080p screens, webcam, microphone, external USB etc in the office. Works perfectly. I travel quite a lot, it's light and easy carry, I bought a small USB-C travel charger. Trackpad palm detection in Linux is bad, so I normally carry a small travel mouse with me and disable the trackpad if I need to do some writing.
It's got a SD-micro card slot, which is very useful, I can store my disk encryption keys on it and take it with me when I need to leave the laptop in hotel rooms etc.
Never had a problem connecting it to any presentation display at customers. I miss ThinkPad keyboard layout, but it is what it is. Not a dealbreaker.
Overall, it's served me well over these years - and there's not much signs of wear and tear on it. Solid build quality.
- I got great battery life improvements with TLP.
  I also found that AMD laptops do a lot better on idle power draw. Getting 12 hours of video playback out of my Asus Zenbook 14 compared to 10 hours on windows.

That should work, though you may want to look into Framework instead.
- I ended up getting a System 76 laptop. The Lemur Pro to be exact.

Ultra thin laptops look cool, but suck in almost every other way. If you need thin then get a MacBook Air.
- Dell laptops like the XPS 13 and 15 are recommended on many compatibility lists including the official Ubuntu certification page. Not only do they look fantastic but they are highly compatible with Ubuntu which is what drew me. The whole point of my purchase was compatibility remember.
  
  Yeah, I'm sorry to say that is a result of good marketing. I work at a university and we have experience with a good number of XPS laptops.
  We saw at least a 60% problem rate, and Dell's support was dog slow. Batteries being the weak spot. Because it's thin it is more fragile, we saw a number of broken screens, and keyboards. One survived a Gatorade spill, but another failed after a water spill. Go figure
  A three year warranty helped, but we were out of a laptop for months at a time, more than once on the same laptop.

98 comments