More couples are choosing a ‘dual income, no kids’ lifestyle
A 2021 study by the Census revealed that childless adults age 55 and older had a median net worth of $153,900 compared to $130,400 for biological parents.
Maybe because it’s the only way many without generational wealth can afford to live.
people used to look at children as a way to pass on knowledge, culture, adn ofc, genes
nowadays our genes dont matter so much unless youre a super athlete or mega genius, so passing them on seems frivolous to many. then theres the interent, which houses knowledge on damn near everything. so i guess it makes sense why the desire to carry on would be outweighed at this point
I was gonna say. the phrase "double income no kids" arose in the 90s when "single income + kids" was a possibility.
Honestly at this point there are only a handful of headlines that cover about 90% of news stories:
-Young people 'choose' lifestyle choice that was forced upon them by external conditions.
-Young people are 'killing industry' that they are not paid enough to even dream of participating in.
-Rich person/people found guilty of or admitted to enormous crime will go unpunished.
-Someones totally unqualified opinion on a subject that we're reporting as news because they're rich.
-World ending, shareholders rejoice.
Rich people doing stupid things with money because they aren’t being taxed like they should so that the economy actually can survive.
FDR taxes the shit out of rich people so they had to re-invest the money into their companies or lose it to the government. That built a strong, industrialized America with good paying jobs. Ronald Reagan reversed everything and we've been in decline ever since. Still a huge number of poor people continue to vote Republican, against their country, and their own interests.
this might be the greatest comment on Lemmy
Seriously, someone save this and post it on X and Reddit.
Disaster capitalism!!! 🥳
By choosing, I think we mean that it's not an affordable luxury to do otherwise
oh trust me, the right wing would LOVE to take your ability to choose to procreate out of your hands completely. Abortion for sure, but also the the night after pill and even birth control. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/04/birth-control-is-next-republicans-abortion.html
I really wish that this was just a joke. Those fascists will take anything they can to make themselves feel powerful.
"Why aren't the poors having more workers??" - the same people continually reducing the status and security of the working class
If given the option or the opportunity ... the wealthy wouldn't mind the reintroduction of slavery and outright ownership of people
Choosing or forced to choose?
Choosing to not have children is becoming more and more accepted among younger people for a long variety of reasons, among them being climate and economy as well as "not going to ruin my body" and "well i just dont like children"
Neither, really. More like are choosing not to go into child debt. Having a kid costs more than having a house. Good for this generation for taking control of their reproductive decisions.
But what you're describing is an economic decision.
Was just going to say that.
Of all my younger siblings/cousins/etc, the only ones with kids were accidents. Only I chose to purposely start a family, and that took me a decade of saving.
Most humans choose to breathe for oxygen, study shows.
Choosing. Def had the option to have kids but decided not to.
Unlike these "reporters", you know the answer.
"choosing"
Gee Mr Wizard, why don't millennials want babies instead of avocado toast?
Pretty much
they arent choosing it.
They are being forced into it because its the only fucking way to have a chance at NOT being homeless and crippled.
Oh no, make no mistake, I chose it.
However, even if I wanted them, how the fuck does one even afford them?
Don't get it twisted, many of us absolutely chose to not have kids because we don't want them.
You can both be right, you know. Many of us also agree with what this person was saying.
I used to want kids. I will refuse to have kids unless I can afford them, and until I can GUARANTEE that their human rights won't be stripped away by the whims of stupid people who are completely disconnected from reality. I won't bring a new life into a world that's rushing towards climate oblivion, either.
I'll sterilize myself before I'm ever forced to have kids.
Agreed. These people are trying to leverage something many of us absolutely aren't interested in to push for necessities such as fixing inflation, universal Healthcare etc. Except that if those things were fixed it wouldn't change the birth rate much at all. That's why Republicans are forcing people to be breeding machines. Educated well off people know better to engage in an activity that is detrimental to their physical and mental health. And making a human means you're responsible for them until you or they die. That's the biggest mistake people make. They make a human, then wash their hands of then.
Less of a choice and more of a survival tactic. Plus, my foregone children would thank me.
Those with higher income levels are the ones deciding to have less kids, whereas those with the lowest incomes are the ones having more. Source
If people are being forced into not having children for economic reasons, wouldn't it be the opposite?
But I don't disagree about it being in the best interest of my future children not to exist with the way things are heading lol.
Could it be its more lucrative to not have children?
When contraception is expensive, career paths look bleak (or non-existent) and sex is the one fun activity you have... surprisedpikachu.jpg
No one should have a child unless they are willing to commit themselves to that child 100%. I have a daughter. She's the most wonderful thing that ever happened to me. And if anyone willingly took substantially less effort than I've taken to try to raise her in a safe, healthy environment and prepare her for her future as best I can- fuck you, you should have worn a fucking condom.
No child deserves to be neglected.
Interesting/sad how simply due to circumstance, somebody’s absolute honest best at max effort/sacrifice can still be raising a kid in a favela.
Consider the top vs. bottom billion: I expect the latter half’s kids would appear neglected if they were suddenly transported to the former’s McMansions overnight.
That’s not to say the kisses and the love are any less, but the clothes and the education and the soccer practice? I’d bet certainly.
I hope within by two generations from now this kind of pondering is only possible from a historical perspective. The kids deserve it.
Hence my saying 'willingly.' You can't help being impoverished.
I also have kids and love them dearly. However I think that it is important that parents have their own interests and time for their own lives, independent of their roles as parents. Of course with very young children there's barely time to sleep, but humans grow up quickly! 😄
I'm not suggesting otherwise. You can put the effort in to do all that I said and still have time to do your own thing.
This is not a controversial opinion.
I make ~$200K a year. As a father of 5, I wish I had not had a single one. I love them, but the stress of taking care of them coupled with the future of the planet makes me regret life choices.
I find it interesting that you cite the stress of raising them as a factor in your regret. Could you not tell that was going to be an issue around the time number three came around? That's not intended to be accusatory btw. I'm genuinely curious.
Not OP, but I've found that the older they get, the harder it gets. Schedules are all over the place, and they start advocating for things they want to do that don't fit neatly into the family calendar (vs when you were able to choose everything for them).
Expectations for parents have also skyrocketed. Your "best" now is far different than what the 1990s parents were expected to deliver. And, of course, you love them and want to provide them everything they need, so you bend over backwards to make it happen. That's what society demands, too.
I don't have as many kids as OP, and I can't fucking imagine wrangling five in the current world...😳
Maybe they meant it like “there is now stress for helping pay for college at a higher cost than when they were born.” Or being stressed knowing if the family lives in a HCOL area (typically where those salaries are offered), they might not be able to live there as well with the current trends in housing costs.
TLDR: things have changed for the worst for newer generations, parents can see it.
He probably doesn't know what contraception is.
I'm sorry man, I assume you have a bit of family support in this regard?
My wife finally are in a point where we can afford to have children, but we are kinda getting a bit old to have children. So we are also choosing the dual income no children life style,
But a big part of that is our age and how long it took to get to a comfortable place financially.
Now we want to focus on saving for a house and retirement.
What choice do they have if kids are basically unaffordable?
“When we advise clients about having children, we honestly don’t even give them the full real details and the real numbers,” said Shannon McLay, founder of The Financial Gym. “It’s one of those things if you see the math of it all, it might make you decide to not have children.”
what a whole generation of pulling the ladder up behind you will do to a society. Party of family values doing everything they possibly can to destroy familes.
Holy shit, what an incredibly unethical thing to do. "We're lying to the people who come to us for advice because if we told the truth they might make a decision we don't like."
Because we can't afford our own lives, how are we supposed to support children? Not even taking into account for how absolutely fucked we all are. Our planet is dying, how can we bring children into this world if it's all falling apart?
I mean a lot of us wouldn't even if it they paid us. We finally live in a time where we know better and can choose not to be barefoot and pregnant (unless you live in tx).
But you can't forget that your children can save the planet, if your generation won't.
What an asshole thing to do. Hey we had fun using up this planet now here, we made you to clean up up the mess. That's what AI and robots are for. Not humans.
Gee, it's almost like it's important for the long term success of society to have systems in place that make sure it's not a burden to create new people to take over for your generation after their bodies are too old and broken to keep working and society functioning.
Then again, the decisions have already been made by the people with the power to make them, and technology/automation are in line to replace workers. They'll be a little loud and problematic until the numbers naturally even themselves out, but we'll be left with an enlightened society of capitalist asset owners being supported by a massive technological network.
It would be a shame if a new Luddite movement came and broke the machines putting humans out of work they want to do.
Or give us a universal basic income and let humans do what they want to do to make themselves happy while the machines do all the work.
Makes a fascinating short story:
Jimmy thought his job at the data center was easy, clock in, watch the cameras, do the rounds, clock out. Good pay, low effort....
then 10,000 people showed up with hammers and crow bars. Jimmy was about to have a very bad day.
Put the value back into my income then, ye cunts.
I make the same number as my dad used to. His was a different currency but the number was the same which makes it awfully simple to put everything into perspective.
His house: 350 Mine: a little under half the size: 900
I'm already down 550 in comparison.
His insurance: 90 Mine: 160
I'm down 620.
His medicine cost and doctor visits: basically zero. Mine: 385 and half the medicine comes out of pocket nowadays.
This difference is hard to put into perspectice as the 385 is once a year and medicine depends on the situation.
Him: unemployed wife, groceries cost about 200 for a full month, owns a car and has 4 children.
Me: wife works and has a hobby that makes money, no car because no money left. Groceries: we eat about 2/3rd of what they did and pay 200 a week. No children.
We are down 1220 if we forget about insurance and medicine. I don't make 1220 more than he did.
Fuck this hellhole, you stole our life and i hope there is a hell for you scumbags.
you stole our life
Don't blame your dad - however much you resent him it's not like he has any influence over the economy. Instead blame the super rich who have real influence and are actively pushing policy to widen this social divide.
I doubt he does.
But it is partially their fault: they have the largest political clout by generation so welfare and zoning policies have always suited them at the behest of everyone else.
And even if people don't have kids, the rich aren't going to be impacted. They just use immigration as a stop gap until everything is automated away and we see wealth imbalance get taken to 11. I'm talking gated communities everywhere with poverty in-between (e.g South Africa)
You're choosing to be wilfully ignorant about inflation. You don't make as much as he did in a real sense.
What's going on now isn't inflation. It's greed.
If only income inflated to match the expenses.
"choosing".
Articles like this are not for you and me. These are written for investors.
The plebs aren't breeding enough future workers for us to exploit to deliver the promised renumerations to our shareholders.
We MUST find out the reason why! No it can't possibly be that extracting all the wealth into our dragon hoards, I mean, hedge funds is the reason why they're too broke to support children.
It can only be a LiFeStYlE cHoICe! Like being homeless or poor.
choice or forced the reconcile the gloomy outlook, the right wing would love to take even the right to choose away from the population. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/04/birth-control-is-next-republicans-abortion.html
"Choosing"
Those with higher income levels are the ones deciding to have less kids, whereas those with the lowest incomes are the ones having more. Source
If people are being forced into not having children for economic reasons, wouldn't it be the opposite?
Because those dots are countries (with vastly different social and economic structures) not people. The people in the lower-income countries probably don't depend on money in their lives as much as people in richer countries do. Your source also lists other reasons.
Also I'd say go back in time here in the US and you'd see something similar here with farm families, but that makes less sense now when land/housing is expensive and giant expensive machinery (that you probably wouldn't trust anybody else with) does much of the work. That and 100 other factors that make it not work like that.
Friend of mine wanted kids. Can't afford it. Both her and her partner work full time, though money was too tight for them to feel comfortable. It's heartbreaking, really.
Why the fuck would I want to subject my own children to the inevitability of human suffering? I'm not going to make the same mistake my parents made.
If the world collapses because there are no more children, I'll consider it my greatest accomplishment before ending it all on my own terms.
It won't. Humans in general breed like crazy. It will collapse because of climate disasters.
What could rasing a child cost? 10$?
No, it's more like 25,000 bananas.
Quick math suggests that it takes about 2190 bananas to raise a child, with an average of 1 banana every 3 days. This cost does not incluce therapy sessions for the parents though, so is not a complete breakdown of the cost of raising a child.
That's half a star war!
Kids? In this economy?
lol this is literally the opening sequence to Idiocracy
At this time of year? At this time of day? In this part of the country? Localized entirely within your kitchen?
"Yes." "May I see them?" "....................... No."
lol this is literally the opening sequence to Idiocracy
Living that DINK life and still having trouble keeping out of debt. I can't imagine having to cover for kids, too.
choosing
Is doing so much heavy lifting in that headline.
Might as well be "More Titanic passengers choosing life rafts to ocean liners"
choosing life rafts to drowning
The world needs fewer people.
And no super rich people.
Yep
Nobody has babies anymore (except Sarah)
As I remember it: fundamentalists are repopulating the earth, and overall population will drop off before long, so don’t mind having & raising progress young minds.
Just what I would have said. We're already too many in this little space.
Im a DINK! Just this year we bought a house, vacationed in Europe and are installing a new heat pump system. I interact with my friends kids and have nieces and nephews. I get to be the fun one and if someone poops or gets sick I can return them. It's like skipping right to the grandparent stage. I don't hate kids or look down on parents like some child free communities but I don't envy them at all. I totally get why DINKness is on the rise. Hopefully the stigma reduces as it become more common.
Im a DINK! Just this year we bought a house, vacationed in Europe and are installing a new heat pump system.
Sounds very expensive.
Yeah, pretty cool what not having kids can do for you
Not as bad as you would think. I am lucky to live in a very progressive state that is investing heavily in green technology. The state gave us a .99 percent loan we have sitting in a high percent saving account to withdraw payments from. The state also gave us like 6k is rebates just to get rid of our old Freon unit. We are hoping to cut our energy bills in half. So depending on where you live you should look into it.
"Choosing"
"forced into"
Don't mind me. I'm the weirdo that legit loves being a parent.
I'm happy for you! We all take different paths in life and it's great you enjoy yours.
Me too, kids made my life so much better, but oof I hate when people push their lifestyle on others, child free and natalist proselytizers can both fuck off. We aren't going to run out of people, or get too many, you can see it adjusting even now. It seems so normal for people in a crowded world to want fewer kids, and slow birth rate is so much nicer than war or plague as a way to control population.
It's a weird alternate reality. Do I love having kids? Absolutely! Would I love having none? Absolutely!
Seconded, can’t imagine life without my family.
Fellow weirdo here. I like the world where everyone who has kids is choosing to have them. Boils my blood to see neglect or abuse of the innocent.
I think I would love being a parent too but I can't come up with a single non-selfish reason I would reproduce in this day and age
Because life is and will continue to be pretty good for a lot of people. I definitely think it will be for my kid. Also, Idiocracy. If all the good, thoughtful people take your attitude then every human will be an idiot or asshole, which is an utterly hopeless future. I get that hopelessness. I felt more or less as you do for a while. But there a good, noble reasons to have a family. It's not so cut and dry.
I already have two kids. Is it too late to adopt this lifestyle?
Sounds like 4 incomes to me!
Honestly yeah. I think a lot of these articles assume the "Move out on their 18th birthday" mentality, but I see extended family situations increasing because livability sure isn't.
If we raised our families in this cooperative fashion, even when the kids are adults, I feel like we'd be much closer to the stable "nuclear family" model than previous generations ever were, relying on a single generation's "breadwinner" and everyone else just being immediate dependents.
Instead of "paying rent", everyone contributes to the household's common good by covering portions of utilities and such.
I dunno maybe this just works for us because nobody in the house is "Boomer with a firm handshake" rich. But it works lol.
Only in Arkansas.
I think I once heard something about post-natal abortions.
No
I'm over here single income double kids. Opps lol
Why can’t I have no kids and three money?!
Send 'em to the coal mines and you'll have three incomes
"But we need your children to grow up and produce product and more children so that we can continue the cycle of funneling the value they create into the pockets of our society's most wealthy and well connected!"
That's why capitalism in the current state is not sustainable. Too much wealth and power in a small group which limits population growth.
Guess the crazed business owners should have paid more money to their lowly drones (who actually do all of the work) instead of taking larger and larger massive bonuses for themselves then.
Fuck them.
I was lucky to get sterilized in Tennessee (pre RvW), and I'm absolutely hyped about it. I never felt maternal, and the feeling disappeared even more as I heard the 'discussions' about women's 'rights'. The more I was made to feel like a next gen's workforce factory , the more I realized a life of free time and savings was much more desirable.
I can't have kids either, one way or the other, and I am so fucking thankful about it
This is similar to the "correlation doesn't equal causation" fallacy.
Dual income and no kids, is due to the prospect of cost of living and raising a family out pacing income. Housing, vehicle, child care, tuition, are all the items pricing middle class out of options.
DINK is not a choice, if anything, it's more the result of not having the luxury to choose.
Nah dude, not having children is definitely a choice and is becoming more and more common
i think it can be both, tbh
Exactly. People need to stop acting like the economy is stopping them from making the biggest mistake of their lives. This is the ONLY good thing about the economy right now.
This is a gross oversimplification that ignores a million societal factors. It's a choice for a lot of us. People used to either not have a choice or think they didn't. Many now know they have a choice and don't want to be broke and stressed. Like my parents were. You know, back when everyone was rich and happy.
It's a choice. And the exact choice compared to those who don't take that option is demonstrated at the beginning of the film Idiocracy.
I very much enjoy the lifestyle that comes with it. It's less stress overall. And it's not exactly a fun place (current state of the world) for me to want to bring a mini me into.
I’ll bet my life savings it isn’t a choice for most….its a necessity these days.
Just the thought of having to be responsible for a child's welfare in this day and age would send my blood pressure through the roof.
Bummer when my friends now don't have kids. It robs me of the schadenfreude while they enjoy their childfree blissful and carefree lives.
We're completely happy being uncle and auntie
Dink here. It's marvelous
Single income supporting a family of 4 here, and it's the best life I could realistically imagine. I live in a low cost of living area and make enough money that we all live comfortably. Kids are getting everything they want for Christmas.
While you and I have chosen different paths, I am happy yours is working for you as well.
I always feel cheated as an asexual/aromantic person. We shouldn't be forced to live with roommates for the rest of our lives just because we don't want to get married, which isn't really a choice, it's just our orientation like anyone else's. It's also so much harder when neurodivergence and/or social anxiety is an issue.
No one should be forced to get married or have roommates (or both) just to keep a roof over their heads. Everyone is entitled to have a little bit of privacy and comfort in their lives, especially if they work hard for it.
I can't believe I feel like I have to justify the desire for a studio apartment with no roommates.
Amen, AroAce SINK, with no partner to pick up any slack...I'm lucky currently to live with family that I get along well with, but they're older and not in great health, so that's not going to last forever.
As the 21st century began, human evolution was at a turning point.
Natural selection, the process by which the strongest, the smartest
the fastest reproduced in greater numbers than the rest,
a process which had once favoured the noblest traits of man,
now began to favour different traits.
Natural selection, the process by which the strongest, the smartest
the fastest reproduced in greater numbers than the rest,
That is a misunderstanding of natural selection. Natural selection means the most efficient ways to live in your ecological niche have been selected for.
Sloths are not counter to natural selection. They're not fast or smart or strong. What they are is well-adapted to live in their environment.
thank you
It's you! Oh man, I really love your show.
I am a father. If you don't want kids please please don't have them. Whatever residual guilt or obligation you are operating under I ask you to purge from your system. The world has enough problems without bringing kids into it that you don't want to raise. Being a parent is hard enough for people like me who want and continue to want to do it, I can't imagine how much worse it will be for a person who doesn't or didn't want.
Yes it is true to one extent almost all parents are rising to the occasion. No one is fully ready and there is never a perfect time. But this is a retrocon. Just because you can figure out something and muddle through doesn't mean you should have to be in that position to begin with.
Again please please do not reproduce if you are unwilling or unable to raise those kids. Leave the task to people who want to. If you still feel some guilt, for whatever reason, go look at some parent in your life and offer to help them with any little task. Even if it is just sitting on their couch playing with your cellphone while they can run out and buy groceries.
With the insane costs of raising kids nowadays, might as well DINK FTW!
replace "choosing" with "can not afford"
To quote System of A Down, “we don't need to multiply”
https://www.throwbacks.com/content/images/2018/02/the-2Bdinks.jpg
The Dink in Mr. Dink's name stands for Double Income No Kids, which would explain his ability to produce such "very expensive" purchases.
The same applies to Dinkleburg in the Fairly OddParents. It's in his name. DINKLEBURG!!!!
Between a dude calling me "pedestrian" on here the other day, and this Bud Dink reference, I think it's a sign from the universe to show my kids Doug
Dinkleberg😠
"choosing"
👨🍳🤌
You can't have the lifestyle media push as success and at the same have kids, it's not compatible to the 99% of people's wealth.
Even with dual income you can be homeless.
Say what you will about previous generations but the ilk of Brian cheskey leading the way for destitution know money hoarding from unchecked capitalism more efficiently than ever before.
