1y ago

EVs less reliable than conventional cars: Consumer Reports [Lauren Sforze | 11/29/23 | The Hill]

thehill.com EVs less reliable than conventional cars: Consumer Reports

Electric vehicles are significantly less reliable than cars powered by gas or hybrid vehicles, according to a new survey from Consumer Reports. The annual car reliability survey by Consumer Reports…

The annual car reliability survey by Consumer Reports found EVs are 79 percent more likely to have problems than conventional cars. Consumers reported electric drive motors, charging and EV batteries had the most common issues associated with EVs, according to the survey.

Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports, noted that there may be “growing pains” among EVs because they are based on new technology or are being manufactured by new upstart companies, such as Rivian. He said companies “need some time to work out the bugs,” according to the magazine.

Plug-in hybrids are more likely to have more issues than gas-powered cars, EVs and hybrid vehicles. The survey said that plug-in hybrids have 146 percent more problems than gas-powered cars.

54 comments

Or it’s because Tesla is like 60% of the market and their quality is absolute shit. https://insideevs.com/news/686440/tesla-60-percent-ev-market-share-new-registrations-2024/
- FTA:
  "Consumer Reports recommended Tesla’s Model 3 and Model Y for those interested in purchasing an electric car. Steven Elek, who heads the auto data analytics program at Consumer Reports, said Tesla’s components are “generally reliable,” according to the magazine.
  However, Elek added that Tesla still struggles with the build quality of its electric cars."
  
  The same Tesla that didn't know why automotive grade parts exist?
  
  Thank you!
- That was my thinking. A friend of mine has had a Polestar 2 for about a year now and absolutely loves it. Hasn't had a single problem with it. Like with conventional vehicles, some brands are just shit for quality and others are great.
  
  To play devil’s advocate, I bought a Model 3 in 2017 and have had 0 issues with it also and it has none of the fit-and-finish issues that newer ones have.
- My Chevy Bolt has been solid as a rock, and anything that was “wrong” with it has been fixed under warranty.
- Right to repair is also not helping EV market.
- Nope, it’s because of legacy automakers producing shit EVs bringing the average down.
  “Most electric cars today are being manufactured by either legacy automakers that are new to EV technology, or by companies like Rivian that are new to making cars,” says Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports. “It’s not surprising that they’re having growing pains and need some time to work out the bugs.” Fisher says some of the most common problems EV owners report are issues with electric drive motors, charging, and EV batteries. (Note: Charging problems reported by members are with the vehicle, not with home or public chargers.)
  If you’d read the article, teslas were the “middle ground” and the only recommended vehicles.
  Their reliability rating hits came from defects like chipped paint, door handles not releasing, and trunks that didn’t close, but their actual drivetrain and batteries were fine.
  
  I would point out that the CR report does not agree with reports from other companies and other countries. Tesla is generally bottom of the barrel. But pointing out something I meant to comment upon the other day, the problems you see coming from these brands all seem to be tied to American automakers, not legacy automakers. In general Korean and Japanese brands have been fine, even German and Swedish brands. But all the american brands? GM? Rivian? Tesla? Ford? Jeep? They're all terrible. They also tried to point out that the HI5 has had battery issues. 1 recall for 1 issue affecting a very small subset of customers is not anything like massive recalls affecting entire fleets like we've seen with GM, Tesla, etc. I have a HI5 and while there are problems, that's normal for brand new vehicles, and they're nowhere near as bad as problems I've had with american made vehicles (including my f150), and about par with the problems we have with our other korean vehicle (a kia sorento).
- That was my assumption. They have issues with batteries dying from heavy rain because they suck at fitting things together properly. Their manufacturing tolerances are way too high.

Lol. Consumer Reports, the "good old boy" for the fossil fuel industry. What idiot would ever believe a machine with less than 20 moving parts would be somehow "less reliable" than a machine with 2000 moving parts? Sure, panel gaps (Tesla) are the same thing as GM ignition switch faults. Imagine what the MSM would say if Tesla cars killed a hundred people lol.
- I would say the Right To Repair should also be on peoples mind when looking at cars.
  Reminds me of Apple and how they try to control the repair market to keep profits high and screw consumers.
- So you're just going to ignore data that says something opposite to your preconceived notions about how stuff works? In that case, I've brought you a nice box of sand for your head.
  It is surprising that EVs are not as reliable as one would expect, but then again, we have way more experience building internal combustion engines than we do EV components.
  Consumer Reports publishes their methodology for collecting this reliability data. It's not difficult to find. It's not a black box.
  I'm in the market for a new EV, so I checked out Consumer Reports reliability data for the models I was looking at. They break it down based on 20 areas (engine, electronics, infotainment, build quality, etc.) and provide reliability for each of those areas. And those areas are not weighted the same. Most of the reliability issues with the EVs I looked at are with electronics (presumably charger related) and drive train issues.
  But despite that, CR still recommends a number of EVs, even ones with meh reliability. Fossil fuel good ol' boys my ass.
  
  Many other studies have said the opposite of what CR says, so not sure it's worth what it looks like. They're also considering non-dangerous recalls as a failure, for example the slow acceleration in eco mode on the Hyundai Ioniq 5 (which I considered a fantastic feature) would be a "problem" under the consumer reports methodology.
  Tesla was considered absolute bottom of the pack in a Which? report https://www.autonoid.com/which-ev-owners-survey-ranks-tesla-bottom-for-reliability/ and https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-least-reliable-ev-brand-uk-survey-2022-3, with 2/5ths of Teslas having major problems and 1 in 20 failing to start! How in the world did CR get the complete opposite data and actually recommend a car that could fail to start.
  Clearly there's something wrong with how all of these reliability surveys are occurring, if they're getting completely opposite data.
  tesla 3rd from bottom in reliability while Kia and Hyundai are at the top
  What is very clear from looking at all these surveys is that American brands are absolutely terrible for reliability. Every single one of the surveys ranks American cars far below European or Asian cars, with many incredibly dangerous recalls for things like failure to start, losing power while driving, airbags failing to deploy or deploying at the wrong time (like when a child is in the seat), loose subframe bolts, and tesla has had so many that it's not even worth sourcing them at this point. just go look up all the dangerous tesla recalls.

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- While the survey found that electric vehicles are still less reliable than gas-powered vehicles, Consumer Reports recommended Tesla’s Model 3 and Model Y for those interested in purchasing an electric car. Steven Elek, who heads the auto data analytics program at Consumer Reports, said Tesla’s components are “generally reliable,” according to the magazine.
  However, Elek added that Tesla still struggles with the build quality of its electric cars.
  
  "Electric cars are not reliable, but if you're stupid enough to buy one, buy a Starkmobile to support the myth of The Benevolent Billionaire."
  Got it.

I had to do some serious digging on this. They previously listed the Chevy Bolt as expected to have good (not excellent) reliability in terms of batteries and motors. A few years later, reviewing their ratings for those same years, it dropped to very bad.
Once I filtered out the noise (and trust me, there was a lot), it seemed that they were counting recalls as failures. And to be clear, the Bolt had a very significant battery recall that drove most of this. But being a recall, these were all covered for free, and most of the repairs were done before failure (as parts became available).
While these were technically failures, they are not the type of data that people generally look for. I want to know how likely I'm going to be stuck with a repair bill (especially a big one), and how often I'm likely to be going in for service. Neither of which is covered by this data.
- Look I'm all for EVs, but massive recalls absolutely should count as failures. Them covering it just means the company isn't pure trash.
  
  It's a valid point of view, but I don't think that's what most people use these reliability ratings for. At least for me personally, I use it as a way to gauge the likelihood of future failures. At least in the past, CR has explicitly stated this as part of their methodology. I don't think the recall is indicative of future issues.

One brand brings the average down. Can anybody guess which one? 🤔
- Rivian, according to the article. Saved you a click.
  
  Yeah, the problem is it isn't Rivian. I own one, and I previously owned the actual shitty brand.

I really want to see the data behind this, because it just doesn't ring true based on my own experience with multiple EVs and a lot of friends who have EVs. Maybe 79% more likely to "have problems" if you are including things like broken plastic or chipped paint or bad design recalls (which I see of as different from buying a vehicle that has a maintenance/repair problem). It's not shocking that there are fewer recalls on 100 year old technology than 20 year old technology, but it is shocking that there are more serious problems on something with 1000 fewer moving parts.

I looked through the article and didn't see, but I imagine this includes all of the battery recalls. As serious as those are, I don't see them as reliability issues, so much as product defects.

electric drive motors, charging and EV batteries had the most issues
Does "an issue charging" include the broken machines? If so that's not an issue with the EV, that's an issue with the charger. That'd be like including every downed nozzle someone drove to in an ICE vehicle as an issue as well
- FTA:
  (Note: Charging problems reported by members are with the vehicle, not with home or public chargers.)
  
  Sounds good then
  Assuming it's actually issue switch the car and not operator error (something I see depressingly frequently are people at other fast chargers on a call with support claiming there's an issue when they just can't read instructions)

Something that just came out and is technologically more advanced isn't as reliable as the "gas go bang car go fast" version that's been around longer than we have been alive? I'm shocked! /s

My Japanese EV is as reliable as any other Japaneae car I've owned.

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