Many voters are weary about a Biden-Trump rematch in 2024. Third parties hope they can fill the gap

If a Trump presidency doesn't scare the shit out of them at this point, then they were already looking for excuses to support him, and "I want someone to vote FOR" is just a stupid excuse.

Like, I want a gazillion dollars and a private island, but I also don't smear shit on the walls of the public library when I wake up and don't get those things. Anyone who does, just wanted to smear shit on the walls.

In other words lots of people have an incredibly childish attitude about voting and are completely prepared to throw a little tantrum in the voting booth even if it means fascists get to take over the whole federal government. I'm becoming pretty convinced that people like that are just incapable of rational decision making.

Nah, the number one reason to vote lately is to prevent Trump from pissing all over democracy. Even Republicans are joining in.

It's gonna be republicans making a protest vote. Democrats are in lock step for once

And no, I’m not planning on voting third party. But finger-wagging won’t convince anyone already looking elsewhere.

[finger-wagging intensifies]

Republicans are all for third party candidates. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election

Telling them "it's just voting for Trump" isn’t going to convince them.

They also use that argument against people who don't show up to vote -- the very same people who might show up for a candidate they want to vote for.

In other words, despite conventional wisdom to the contrary, they might not vote for a two-party candidate anyway.

.

Biden is a good candidate. He hasn't been impeached yet, unlike his competitor during this same time in his term; he hasn't started a coup on his own country, and the fact that he's experienced at the job he's applying to is actually a good thing (displayed by the passing of both the CHIPs act and the IRA despite not having complete control of congress). Hilary was actually a significantly better candidate than Trump(very obvious in hindsight for many), but Trump had the advantage of Russian support and the fact that it was uncertain how he would act as president. Once voters found out how Trump is as a president, they turned away from him in droves as evidenced by the fact that he's the first president to lose reelection in 20 years, and Republicans have lost every election since Trump was voted in.

Biden ain't perfect, but man he's a huge upgrade compared to Trump.

Why the fuck are you unwilling to consider someone else?

Is this your first election? Incumbency advantage and name recognition. Anyone who understands that and continues to make excuses to not vote for Biden is a Trump supporter. Either intentionally or through sheer privileged ignorance.

Your choice is between President Biden, who has been a good President or the Antichrist. There isn't anyone else running that is worth my time to look at. Your argument should wait until 2028 when Pete Buttigieg is the top candidate. Probably the most intelligent member of the Federal Government right there.

tl;dr Our system of government sucks and math says you need to vote for Biden.

I hate it, too, but them's the facts.

Republicans are pushing third party candidates HARD. If Biden doesn't get 270 electoral votes the Republican House appoints the president. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contingent_election

I recall learning about STAR a while ago, and I agree that both that FPtP sucks ass, and STAR is vastly better. All we’d need to do is get it instituted to replace FPtP, which is the real hurdle.

I may be off here because this is the first I'm reading about STAR, but it seems worse than instant-runoff ranked-choice voting because of the "top two candidates based on first results are the final two candidates". It seems like ranked-choice but broken to keep the States in a two party system.

For instance: Let's say there are 4 parties: blue, red, green, and yellow. Let's say the majority of people have red (27%) and blue (26%) as their top pick, so those are automatically #1 and #2. Green is a close third (25%). The remainder (21%) vote for yellow, then green, then red, then blue. STAR would say every other candidate is eliminated except Red and Blue, and then redistribute the other votes. Instant-runoff would say: eliminate yellow and redistribute based off their second choice. In this example, all those votes would switch to green and green would become first. Then blue would be eliminated, those votes redistributed, and then you'd have to see what would happen. Instant-runoff to me allows for the opportunity for a meeting in the middle - everyone potentially agreeing on their second choice; while STAR seems like it will just continue to encourage people to put their primary pick up top.

Or you ditch direct presidential elections altogether, vote for congress with a proportional vote and let them decide who's gonna be president. That way you'll force the (now more than 2) parties to form coalitions and cooperate.

If Trump wins, you stop investing your money, pull it completely out of the bank, do not buy anything at all beyond basic needs. You want the economy to implode and your investments are safe at home. Beyond that you can't do much else.

If we need their votes, how do we get their votes?

In my opinion, the Democrats need to work on broadly popular legislation, like marijuana legalization. Try to push it through, and if it fails, which it probably would in the house, they need to make a stink over it, and then use that for campaign ads, with the promise that if they win all 3 branches next election, they will make it happen. Then they actually need to do that, rather than waffling like they have in the past.

Never claimed to have any of the answers to that.

Ex Republican here. We loved people like you. We joked about it constantly. A non voter is seen as a Republican vote because it meant we won in the end. Republican voters sort of understand on some level that they are the minority so they see non or protest voters as a victory.

You vote Republican by not voting if you were planning on voting Democratic. It's that simple, no nuance needed.

I blame you directly if Donald wins this time.

Option 1 - eat pizza. Option 2 - eat burritos. Option 3 - eat burgers. Option 4 - eat shit.

There are 5 people in your family and 2 of them are die hard shit eaters and 1 die hard burger eater. If you vote for a burrito, pizza, or don't vote you are eating shit.

What they are ignoring is that if the orange blob is able to do his worst, their very lives may be at stake.

True but it would definitely hinder his ability to hold his stupid rallies and what have you.

When is "and then"?

Gee you know what would really help with that fucked up situation? Ranked choice voting.

Youre thinking of the historical definition of lobbying, when citizens would wait in lobbies of legislatures to make their case to a legislator. Thats no longer what lobbying means in the US. Its actually a legally distinguished title, lobbyists are a paid position, generally lawyers or former legislators, representing large organizations, and facilitating giving politicians money or gifts to influence their votes. You can write to your congressman, you can call one of their secretaries voicemails, you can attend any town halls they might hold, but youre not a lobbyist and you cannot go have a personal meeting with your congressman like a lobbyist can.

Im voting on these issues for all elections, not just president. But presidential support is pretty important for any legislation.

yeah, when the choice is 'democrat' or 'fascist' you tend to win some races.

what sucks has been watching the democrats conservatively do fuck all for 40 years.

but at least they aren’t fascists.

Second worst to fascism shouldn't be the best we can ever hope for.