Linux @lemmy.ml

1y ago

Based KDE 🗿

349 comments

Kinda weird that they're calling it an OS, but ig they're just trying to cater to the windows audience
- I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux is in fact KDE/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, KDE plus Linux.
  
  I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Windows, is in fact, Adware/NT, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Adware plus NT.
  
  I finally get this reference! I think this could mean im ready to try Linux again
  
  What if you're running KDE stuff on *BSD. Or on Windows, for that matter...
  (eg: I use Kate on windows as my primary text editor on my work computer...)
- KDE neon is what they're selling
  
  Selling as in advertising, I might add. Neon is free
  
  Neon is more of a testbed than a proper distro (they don't actually even use that word).
  Is this "the KDE distro"?
  Nope. KDE believes it is important to work with many distributions, as each brings unique value and expertise for their respective users. This is one project out of hundreds from KDE.
  
  Which is....still not an OS. It's a distribution. Specifically, it's a fork of Ubuntu. To reiterate what the OP was saying, they're catering to the Windows audience, who understand the concept of a "new Windows version," but who wouldn't understand the concept of a distribution.
- I feel like they intended to mention KDE neon (which is the official KDE distro).

"But can Linux install things via a single .exe file? HAHAH EAT IT NERD!"
10'ish years ago past me, before discovering the magical wonders of the package manager
- I found since people are used to app stores, I've had a much easier time convincing people to try out Linux. My mom even said that she always wished her windows PC had a proper app store.
  
  I think it's still important to explain the key difference between an "app store" and a package repository: the latter isn't a "store" because everything is free.
  
  But Windows does have an app store, and has for ages now.
- With app images it's easier than installing. Although the chmod step will deter the typical windows user
  
  What chmod step?
  When I clicked on new app image, the OS told me, that program /name of app/ will be launched, I clicked "Continue" and it runs! No meddling with "chmod" or anything like that.
  
  With file managers, for example in thunar, you can select Properties -> Permissions -> Allow this file to run as a program
  
  I installed Linux a few weeks ago and it was on Tuesday I wanted to add some programs I had installed (it was mGBA and melonDS) to my steam launcher, I went through the hassle of making a . desktop file for both of them (I was dumb and used a Ubuntu based distro, so it installed as a snap, which sucks hard on a hdd) and then it wouldn't launch, I searched up again (I was using chatGPT for all of this, I asked it a lot how to do stuff, it's like this was it's purpose beacuse it always worked first try), did the chmod x+ command and then I was done
  Just to see it not launch :/
  
  How do you actually install an AppImage? I figured out how to use them, but not how to install them.
- Not to mention Flatpaks.
- I still am intimidated by the terminal as I've only had slight experience with CMD
  
  Honestly, if all you've ever experienced in regards to terminals is windows CMD, then you really haven't seen much. I mean that possitively. Actually, it will give you a far worse impression on what using a Linux / Unix terminal can be like (speaking as someone who spent what feel's like years in terminals, of which the least amount in windows CMD).
  I suggest to simply play around with a Linux terminal (e.g. install VirtualBox,.then use it to install e.g. Ubuntu, then follow some simple random "Linux terminal beginner tutorial" you can find online).
  
  Don't worry about the terminal until or unless you have something to do that needs it, then follow a guide
  Incidentally if a guide tells you to run a program in terminal, you can check what that program is supposed to do
  man command (eg. man mount) gives you the manual, if it has a manual
  command -h or --help gives you the command's help page - pipe it through "less" if it's more than a single screen eg: ls -h | less

Windows 11 takes your money, gives you ads, sells your information and ignores your bug reports and feature requests
KDE is free, ad-free and open to contribution
I think we have a clear winner here
- But can it run proprietary software used in the industry? From Excel to Photoshop, if you are in a collaborative professional environment, you can't run away from those, and don't tell me you can use the alternatives in Linux, because no, you can't. This is not linux fault, but it's still an issue you can't handwave.
  I love linux, but you can't expect people to adopt it just because it's objectively better than windows.
  
  Wine can run most of those, not all. You can still dual boot Windows if you need to (VMs are an option, but they aren’t always the best).
  
  You just gotta make an effort. The one who are too lazy will never be free of Microsoft's clutches. Which probably just means pretty much everyone will stick to windows.
  
  If you want real change you have to change for real.
  
  @desconectado @glibg10b Wine exists... And that's all I have to say. There is a good installer in lutris for creative cloud that works pretty good if you own it. And if you have a NVIDIA graphics card, it works even better, almost like on windows. It's not 1:1 but we're getting close. For excel you have wine again or a great free alternative is WPS or softmaker if you want to buy it.
  
  List of things to consider
  There are alternatives
  You can use wine
  You can run a windows VM and install it there
  Dual boot windows
  Microsoft has built a proprietary moat around their operating system. The reason why it’s hard to switch from Windows is by corporate design. A mix of early adoption, network effects, and just plain cold hard cash makes them dominate the operating system market. Of course it’s infeasible for your 60yo coworker to switch; but KDE presents an alternate reality, an opportunity, for people fed up with big tech’s bullshit. Yes, figure out how to run and use alternatives you fucking nut. Way to go disparaging countless volunteer hours spent on open source projects so that people like me can switch to linux.
  Comments like these make me irrationally angry. Why complain about open source software and give bad PR? It’s open source; contribute.
  
  There are enough web based office instances running for Linux to be functional in that regard.
  Photoshop on the other hand...
  
  I love linux, but you can’t expect people to adopt it just because it’s objectively better than windows.
  Excel o,O
  
  Meh I had a dual boot machine ages ago. Still here collecting dust. Basically I only switched to use the Linux for down time, movies, and study, most day to day tasks from engineering software to anything I considered important enough that you do not want the results hacked or broken I would use Windows.
  I think of modern machines kind of like a hammer. These days almost nobody actually remembers the guy who made the first hammer, or who discovered fire, but there's a price tag for the bow, the paper and the hammer, not so much the making of the hammer, because the actual skill involved or required to learn about it has become challenged if not cheapened to the degree that there are now multiple paths to obtain or create a hammer, yet the benchmark quality of the hammer as well as the process for creation itself as a whole is now more of an authority than the actual original statue or monolith of "hammer man" himself.
  This is why I think the many flavours of Ubuntu including the many esoteric Linux distros are still interesting but still lack the diversity of use and specialization. The fact that whole blockchains are built for XYZ while sitting around pumped then dumped to trading at cents with no use goes to show how cloud computing systems and lower level computing is still very disconnected and becoming further thrown aside to uphold ponzi schemes.
  I'll give you an example, more money is wasted on onlyfans per year than for people trying to use system XYZ for solving problem A, or curing cancer. Consider that to be one of the "good" reasons many men and women are so misogynistic, even without looking down on sex workers.
- Not to mention free as in freedom.
  
  Also free as in beer.
- And anytime you mention that anywhere when somebody is being fucked again by windows, people find you annoying
- But can it play Starfield with an Nvidia GPU? I originally had popos on my PC until Starfield came out, I had to switch to Windows to play.
  
  https://www.protondb.com/app/1716740
  
  I mean Starfield was just terrible optimized for Nvidia at launch and still isn't ideal no matter what OS you use.

Linux is the modern OS and windows is just a bunch of old shitty technology in a trench suit.
- This is kinda how I feel about Windows these days. It's interface, directory structure, shudder the registry, user specific apps (from MS Store or Winget), buttons being inserted into the menu bars on some apps, but not others, button sizes being different sizes, some parts still using the Metro interface. The whole thing either needs a re-write, or should be dropped and something new to replace it. Don't even get me started on things like the eventvwr hanging for 20 seconds after it opens, event tracer API, their in-house abandonment of powershell modules once powershell was open sourced, Windows containers being a disaster, etc.
  
  The problem is that so much critical infrastructure around the world relies on ancient Windows software. I’m pretty sure their backwards compatibility is one of the reasons there’s so much inconsistency in Windows, and every iteration seems to just add more bloat on top.
  
  There was a TCP/IP bug that shared it's exploit on versions of windows from windows for workgroups 3.11 (which you ran from the DOS prompt by typing 'win') through to windows 7 (which was the new hotness at the time)
  That's a bug conserved from the very first Microsoft implementation of TCP/IP through to the state of the art at the time
  People were surprised at the time that it wasn't a windows NT bug
- Yeah, but that old technology is what still lets me run a 13 year old version of Adobe creative suite. If that ever changes I will have to learn something new!
  
  We will perhaps never beat adobe but nowadays there are some amazing tools!
  ... Which are developed for windows as well. Haha.

So basically ever since I first tried Windows 7 I held it as the "Gold standard" for desktop OS's. Half my tweaks to Windows 10 were trying to get it as close to Win7 as I possibly could.
When I finally start experimenting with Linux early this year KDE quickly got me to reconsider my "Gold standard" and finally switch my main machine fully to Linux.
No regrets and certainly ain't switching back even if Microsoft gave me updated Windows 7 with every extra feature I wanted back then.
- I've been a Linux user for a decade and a half now, but still use Windows on my corporate laptops. Honestly, it's baffling how Microsoft seem to consistently manage to miss the mark with the UI design. There's lots to be said about the underlying internals of Windows vs Linux, performance, kernel design etc., but even at the shallow, end user, "is this thing pleasant to use" stakes, they just never manage to get it right.
  Windows 7 was...fine. It was largely inoffensive from a shell point of view, although things about how config and settings were handled were still pretty screwy. But Windows 8 was an absolutely insane approach to UI design, Windows 10 spent an awful lot of energy just trying to de-awful it without throwing the whole thing out, and Windows 11 is missing basic UI features that even Windows 7 had.
  When you look at their main commercial competition (Mac and Chromebook) or the big names in Linux (GNOME, KDE, plenty of others besides), they stand out as a company that simply can't get it right, despite having more resources to throw at it than the rest of them put together.
  
  To me it's absurd how Microsoft gets beaten by a free desktop environment when windows is like their main product. They have billions of dollars. How do they manage to not do better?
  
  What drives me crazy is how they can't update all their configuration interface to the same standard, if you go deep enough you still fine things that are unchanged since Windows 98
  
  It seems like a big company's problem. They have a well-paid design\marketing department that can do whatever they want to create the best-selling interface for the new version of Windows, but before it's released, no one tested it yet for anything but bugs, and who'd argue with a flock of top designers anyway? Add here the board of directors who are here to sell them ideas and who won't use it either – I'm sure they applauded to the idea of unifying mobile and desktop experience with WinPhone&Win8, but especially Tablet-Laptop transformers they saw as the future. It sounds great on the paper, right? At that time it could've even sounded obvious for their business. And so it happened like it did.
  Linux counters it by constant feedback and competition between easily switchable DEs, users being prepared even to jump distros; Apple has a fetish for style and experience (that's a half of their pricetag), they build their business model about looking and feel nice, so you'd build an ecosystem of their products, you can't even see error windows here and their garden is gated af; and ChromeOS\Android aren't shy of looking what others do (like iPhone's design findings) and conservatively taking what works, also having tons of vendor-created restyles\forks on their own platform as a testing ground for new ideas to make them then a standard. MS lack all of it, and their creative process is guided by external interests and ideals, it's just an afterthought. And as they have their stable market share, they probably won't even care. It took whole internet's screams to return their traditional start menu in win8.1, then w10.
  That'd probably stay the same until their new CEO would happen to be an art college graduate - like the current one pushed for accessebility and building special controllers because she has a child with a disability. A top-down signal. I won't bet on it anytime soon.
  
  The fact that Windows 11 has removed the ability to move the taskbar and has no intention of adding it back is just baffling to me. It's a small thing but so jarring every time I try to use it that I've barely used my desktop in the last few months.
  
  I've noticed a trend in modern design where designers will put out garbage to 'keep people on their seats' waiting for it to be fixed.
- Almost all my desktop gets used for anymore is gaming. The windows only anti cheat shit leaves me not messing with splitting what I boot up for.
- I've been on Linux for ages and ages.. back when I had to order CDs for new copies of Ubuntu.
  Kde is the first desktop experience that I feel is the gold standard.
  Every iteration of Linux I've used, solus, fedora, Ubuntu, Manjaro the DE I use is KDE.
  I'm not sure why.. but it makes sense to me and is my gold standard experience.
  
  You can make KDE do pretty much whatever you want
  
  Haha, I remember buying Mandrake Linux CDs... I'm a FreeBSD user these days (for the past 20-odd years) but still run KDE. Plus they're still trying to remain fairly *nix agnostic which is nice.
- I set my KDE up to look as much like Windows 7 as possible.
  I think that was peak desktop design before designers started changing shit just to stay relevant.

Plasma is not a system, but I see how they didnt want to confuse people here
- It is a desktop environment system.
  
  But no operating system

Microsoft will probably never truly catch up with KDE
- Plasma 6 is approaching fast
  
  So is Windows 12... /s

In the newest windows, it is even possible to hover the volume icon and change it with the mouse wheel!!!
- Does clicking on it open the mixer, or still the useless menu which should be accessible with a right click instead?
  
  Menu
- KDE had that pretty much since the invention of the mouse wheel.
- I have the same functionality on my waybar
- Still not going back to Windows!
  LOL!
- Wait, they didn't have that before? Heck, even my sway install with Waybar has this.
- But you still need to get at the audio settings to tell it that it should use your microphone for a microphone, not the USB camera

KDE is the best desktop environment.

To be fair, forcing a bunch of software on the machine users own was never a good move, and in my opinion, not a new normal.
- It was a good move when people had no idea what they were doing and needed defaults to get started.
  
  You mean the defaults that were against anti trust laws?

not a kde user but huge respect to them

It's not my primary driver, but I would gladly choose KDE over Windows.

I came back to KDE after a long absence because I never liked it back in the day (I found it ugly and bloated). I was really surprised by how good it has become. It's now my favourite desktop environment on Linux, and I'm looking forward to version 6. So to any other oldies still avoiding KDE because of how it used to be, it's worth another look.
- I second your experience. It was not so impressive back then and 2indo2s was much nicer, but not anymore. I'm feeling it, this year Linux will be on top!
  Edit: I tried to write Windows 🤷‍♂️
  
  Here I am thinking there's some obscure Linux project using a name that's somehow a sequel to Windows, like a Windows 2, but also a play on the 2__4me meme.
  
  Third. KDE is really amazing now.
- Oh, this is good news for me. I remember trying KDE years ago and feeling that it was just way too heavy. My goto is usually Cinnamon, but the lack of Wayland support has made me hesitant to go all in with out on my gaming PC. Def gonna give KDE a try, thanks!
  
  Cinnamon was where I had ended up too. So now I have a couple of Linux Mint/Cinnamon machines and a Tumbleweed/KDE machine. It surprised me that I like KDE more.

Fully based

Konquered

What's the current reliable KDE Distro? I've been rolling with Kububtu for a while now, but Ubuntu's Snap mandate has been getting annoying.
- I have been enjoying OpenSUSE Tumbleweed. It's a rolling distro unlike the Ubuntu and Debian derivatives, but the updates hardly ever cause problems and it's very easy to roll them back if they do. It also gives you a choice between X11 and Wayland, and Wayland is working well for me on Intel graphics.
  
  I jumped into Tumbleweed recently and have really been liking it. Last time I used Linux with a desktop environment I was using Gnome and KDE was a lot unglier. Things have definitely changed.
- I would recommend the KDE spin of Fedora.
  
  Second but I use Nobara with KDE.
  
  Second. Up-to-date packages and stable at the same time.
- Tumbleweed is pretty much the "official" kde distro
  
  Not KDE Neon?
- Fedora KDE Spin works pretty well
  
  I can confirm. I’ve been running it on my M1 MacBook Pro and it’s quite nice.
- Debian or MX.
- If you want something Ubuntu-based I'd recommend KDE Neon, last time I tried it, it was great. I don't think it has snaps since it's made by KDE.
- Endeavour switched to KDE as their main DE
- Most likely the best distro for KDE is KDE neon, but that doesn't mean that much.
  I use it on Debian testing and am very satisfied with it, KDE has never been so stable.
- I'm using Kubuntu as my main OS and it has been very stable for me. You can remove snapd and install the deb Firefox repository. You should look up tutorials on how to do it, I did it and nothing broke
- I for one hope to move from kubuntu to debian with KDE, I assume that won't have snap shit or systemd shit, but I might be painfully mistaken right there, I haven't checked it out yet.
  
  Debian does use systemd, but what's so bad about it? I'm just curious, I'm using Arch with KDE, and that also uses systemd. Never had any issues with it. Debian doesn't use snap by default though.
- I use it in Garuda. No complains.
- Fedoras flavor with KDE. Fedora never caused an issue for me.
- Manjaro is pretty good.

KDE nerds: Is there a way to get a normal app launch indicator (cursor with a loading icon/hourglass) instead of either nothing or the little hopping icons that don't animate right?
- System Settings → Appearance → Cursor Theme → Configure Launch Feedback
  
  That only has nothing, static (icon), blinking (icon) or bouncing (icon) though. I find anything involving the icon jarring, especially because it keeps lagging behind the cursor. And yes, this is incredibly minor.
- I think you mean different. I find the bouncing very normal after all these years. The spinning wheel and hourglass is there but they are used to indicate system waits, rather than launches.
  Of course you can shut the bouncing launch off if you dont like it.
- I don't know about an hourglass specifically, but there are some options. Should be in system settings, applications, launch feedback and/or busy cursor.
- No. Some people wanted to change it to that for Plasma 6, but on Xorg there's apparently no way to make that happen, as the cursor is always decided on by the window you're hovering over...
  
  Oh, I see, thank you! Never noticed the cursor changing back when I put it over another window in XFCE, but I also never looked for that. I really just want that brief feedback, especially when I'm using a touchpad.

What's plasma ? Is it a browser? Sorry, I dont understand computers
- Unlike Windows and MacOS, the Linux ecosystem is a lot more modular. For example, graphical user interfaces. There are a few types, ranging from ruthlessly simple tiling window managers to more complex desktop environments that more closely resemble the Windows or MacOS experience.
  Linux users may take their pick between about a dozen desktop environments (DEs), including Gnome, Cinnamon, Mate, xfce and LXQT.
  KDE (once standing for Kool Desktop Environment, now merely KDE) is a community/organization that produces open source software. They made Krita, a raster art program, KDENLIVE, a video editor, and many other such utilities. They also make the Plasma desktop environment, which is often referred to simply as "KDE" by distro maintainers. For example, you might download Fedora GNOME or Fedora KDE.
  KDE Neon is an operating system maintained by KDE which features the Plasma desktop.
  
  Thanks for the explanation. Really appreciate it.
- It's a desktop environment for linux operating systems. Desktop environments pretty much dictate how a pc looks. KDE Plasma,Mate, Gnome, Cinnamon etc are some famous desktop environments
- KDE Plasma is an desktop environment.
  The kind of thing you interact outside of installed app/programs. Like the panels, window decorations (titles, close buttom, maximalize button), the way windows float and behave, system settings, etc.
  Unix systems (like Linux) are very modular and you can install different desktop environments if you want. And even within those desktops are modules, like you can install different "start menu" or file manager on KDE Plasma.
- an linux operating system made by the KDE team
  
  raises pendantic finger Ah-hem, sorry, but KDE Plasma isn't an OS. It's a desktop environment. For an OS bundled/built-around Plasma then Kubuntu or KDE Neon are both Linux distributions that would better fit that description.
  
  Since when has KDE been an OS?
  
  Things are more interesting in the Linux world. Plasma is just a user interface, a desktop environment. The actual operating system is Linux. And we have so many choices for how we want our desktop environment on Linux, but Plasma is the most advanced one.
- Well, if you bothered to read the text on the image, you would have found your answer.
  
  Whoosh
  
  No wonder lemmy user base Is dropping with holier than comments like this. Let me guess, you use arch too?

And you can't get de-crufted Win11 outside Europe! Another win for Plasma!
- You can, but it takes a little effort

Because I need Windows to run old C&C games. Get Generals world builder working on Linux and I'll delete my dual boot
- You can already get it working under Linux, running a Windows VM. I remember doing that for Homeworld, it's basically the emulator approach. A VM is ok if it isn't too demanding graphically.
  
  Yeah the issue is the tools. They're what I have a hard time with in the VMs. I have no idea why
- Imagine keeping an entire system set aside for one application. You do you, bud.
  
  I don't think you understand how zealous C&C fans are. Some of us have entire XP machines with CRT monitors just to play the game in its purest form. We're about as culty as Linux.
  But it's also not just one program, it's all the c&c games, their map editors, mod loaders, and any modding tools. World builder is just an example.
  
  I'd like to introduce you to Qubes OS then :P

Do Android next!
- Try LineageOS
  
  I'd prefer a solution out of the box. I am well aware of alternative OSes.

Yeah like they (the Windows sheeple) celebrated a CLI package manager as if it was their best invention since sliced bread. Every Linux user was like yaaawwwn... "finally"
- Who in the world celebrated that?
  Like, I get the self-reinforcing bubble that Linux communities exist in and all, but... nobody did that.
  The vast majority of Windows users are random people that never touch anything beyond the Start menu in their entire computing lives. What segment of the Windows userbase is out there celebrating any features, let alone command line anything? This is not a thing. At least not in numbers large enough to matter.
  Sorry, I try not to get involved in these arguments. Frankly, grown adults taking sides on operating systems of all things like it's Sega vs Nintendo in a 90s playground seems very strange but I don't begrudge people finding communities wherever. It's just... you know, come on.
  
  As someone who needs to do initial installs on computers with 10-20, I celebrated. It is much easier to type names of the programs and the manager do anything instead of manually downloading installers. But turned out WinGet is really badly done.
  As for preferences, for some this is actually Nintendo vs Sega unfortunetly. But don't underestimate moral decitions too.
  
  People who do not use the dominant system/program/etc. often feel the need to tear down everyone else in order to validate their decision instead of just letting the results and their daily happiness with the decision speak for itself.
  
  Sysadmins very commonly make a lot of use out of automating things with Powershell and various utilities that work with it.
  Given that a pretty decent sized portion (I'd assume at least, no numbers to back that up sadly) of the Linux user base tends to be "cut from the same cloth" in terms of having the passion to automate (and heavily customize) their system - I would think this is why you see this sentiment repeated often.
- sheeple
  c'mon man
  
  Meh let him lord over people, better to let the mask fall off
- Do you known kde has discover to install and update applications with a gui right?
- Looking to pick sides I see. Very funny

Maybe I can just post here and get a good explanation?
I have been using PopOS for a while now and I am super happy with it, but last time it tried to switch from Gnome to KDE I ended up with a black screen after boot and had to reinstall from scratch.
Does anyone have a good writeup on how to do it properly?
- Just install KDE (package name is probably something like kde-desktop) and reboot.
  Next login there's a button bottom right for changing the DE. you don't need to uninstall gnome desktop.
  What probably happened, is that you uninstalled your display manager when uninstalling gnome. This causes you to end up in tty when starting PC when there's no app configured for the login window
  
  IIRC the package name is kubuntu-desktop
- https://support.system76.com/articles/desktop-environment/
- I already saw many issues with PopOS, I think they aren't really that good at Linux and that's why it's messed up, you probably uninstalled most of xorg tools. Try Linux Mint, is more stable and serious.
  
  FEDORA!
  
  think it more comes down to all the layers they’re having to deal with: (soon: Cosmic DE) on top of Gnome changes on top of Pop!_OS changes on top of Ubuntu changes on top of Debian changes on top of System76 hardware …

I used to use Linux exclusively, but I eventually gave in to the appeal of Windows. I'm just too into gaming, even with all the advancements Steam and Proton are bringing into Linux. The main difference I've had is which OS type hosts which OS type.
- I managed to get it to work for me with a bit of tinkering
- Which specific game do you play that made you switch?
  
  It's not a specific one, it's about not having to worry about which one are in the ProtonDB list and how it actually performs and can be configured. I just lose less out of having Linux in a VM for what I use it for, and have less surprises running the games on the system they are marketing and testing for.

Bel nick 10/10
- Grazie brother ❤️

Currently, dual booting Fedora and Windows 11 on my Asus gaming laptop, and I love Fedora, but it's still not full sailing. Every other boot the wifi card doesn't register and I have to reboot, others the OS freezes even though Grub doesn't but nothing actually opens or closes, and lastly if the laptop is on battery and goes into hibernation, waking it up takes around 5-10 minutes. To add that gaming is still not as smooth as it is with windows, and I still have a use for Windows pOS.
- That isn't a problem with Linux, as much as I hate it. It's a problem with Asus, which I hate more. Asus is known for having many unfixable bugs on everything they have similar to these but even this isn't as severe as most people get where their audio will go out for days on end.
- Have you tried another distro like Pop OS?
  
  Unfortunately, the drivers aren't available as easily with other distros. The main issue is that my laptop is an ASUS laptop, awesome laptop most of the time, but it's not easily supported by Linux
  
  I'm using Pop OS on a couple devices and I like it, but it also gets temporary hung up frequently. It's irritating when I'm only doing one thing.
- there seems to be a problem either with your specific install or with the compatibility of fedora and your hardware. None of what you listed is expected normal behavior. Maybe try reinstalling fedora or another distro, best of luck :)
- Been running Linux as primary is for 10-15 years now, used to distro hop a lot, often just because. Life is too busy for that now but I last installed fedora (KDE, I always run KDE out of preference) about 5 years ago and I'm really impressed. The system is very current but its always remained stable for me and upgrading from version to version is smoother than normal security patches on win 10 which I still run for CAD.
  Are you all up to date? Tbh I do agree with the other post, ASUS have terrible QA and don't care.
- Framework sell laptops with Linux
- I've tried Fedora 3 times years apart in my life and never had a good experience. The longest time I used a distro was with Elementary OS and Zorin OS, the latter of which I'm currently on.

working from home has loosened ms grip on corporate desktop counts. some brilliant bean counter will save them a ton of money after they write off the downtown office space and offer everyone the cost of a micrsoft seat license. I'd guess it's around $100/seat but I've been out many years. The shitty companies will just pocket the savings.

Me still trying to figure out how to get it to auto start / auto login on boot on my fresh new Raspberry Pi 5 without locking up at a flashing cursor screen: 😩
- I haven't had luck with auto login, as soon as it's logged in it wants a password to unlock its keyring
  I wish installers let you set low local security mode. We don't all need strong security, some of us are just playing games

Can I use MS Office natively with that? Also, can I use it as a non-techie lay man in a way that is similar to the way most office bottom-feeders use Windows?
I know there is Open Office but I am lawyer and the free office alternatives just don't have the rich formatting options I need to do my job. I have tried and they just won't do.
- Can I use MS Office natively with that?
  Not the full suite, natively. You can install it via PlayonLinux, which works well without fiddling, or you can use Office 365 on the web.
  Also, can I use it as a non-techie lay man in a way that is similar to the way most office bottom-feeders use Windows?
  Yes.
  I know there is Open Office but I am lawyer and the free office alternatives just don’t have the rich formatting options I need to do my job. I have tried and they just won’t do.
  Open Office is deprecated. You can use LibreOffice which is free. Or WPS Office or SoftMaker Office, which run on Linux and are 100% compatible with MS Office, but cost money.
  
  Also Only office, which appears to have the best compatibility with MS documents (although in my particular case I find it a bit cumbersome).
- First of all, libre office is very competent but I understand that it'll always be very behind whetever Microsoft decides to do next.
  Office is available on all systems at office365.com if you must use Microsoft tools.
  For the non-tech usage, very much yes. Most of the problems your hear about with linux stem from people trying to make it do stuff that you can't dream of doing on windows because it will stop you. Simply installing a system and using it to browse the web, edit documents, maybe install a few popular programs like VLC or Discord is set-and forget. System installers have recently gotten much more noob-friendly as well, imo the debian and Pop!OS installers don't really allow you to mess up. KDE is a good choice of DE, but you might be more confortable with others. Good news, you can decide later, as switching desktop Environments is easy and preserves your files.
- Fyi: Libre Office is the actively developed Open Office fork.
  Don't know how it stacks up to MS Office though.
  
  In my opinion, it stacks up VERY well, even better, except the toolbar is by-default a mess for some reason while there's a very easy option to set it to tabbed.
- Just out of interest: What are the specific formating options / features you're missing to be able to perform your job?
  
  ToC via Styles formatting and Table of authorities - these are from the top of my head, which I remember not working properly with Open Office. They need to work when I do them and also should be displayed correctly when I receive them from colleagues in docx format.
  Format painter, track changes, spell checker in two languages, intendation adjustments, page breaks, and paste as text - I use these like crazy but I don't remember if they were OK in Open Office or not.
- honestly Libreoffice is not on par with MS Office. I use MS at work and Linux at home and Libreoffice is great for general use, but it is very rough around the edges, and does not have all the capability that MS does. I wish it were not the case but lack of an excellent office suite is one weaknesses of Linux.

Based
I can't wait until community ADHD picks another inscrutable word to mutter arbitrarily and signal clique membership.
- Better teach yourself what ADHD is if you ever want to get out of your basement.
- What weirds me out is that this was a Maga/redpill thing to start with.
  
  I remember it first from twitch, many years ago.
  
  that's the joke
- I like the word, it fits well with biased which is approximately opposite
  My least favourite new word is 'doom scrolling' which is now used to mean "scrolling internet feeds mindlessly" where it originally meant "constantly refreshing the internet feed in the hope the result of the American presidential election will change"
  I'd be happy if it was used in another doomy context

Because I don't want to have to hope that things work on Linux that work on Windows.
- What is left? Photoshop? Excel?
  Meh
  
  You can literally use photoshop in your browser now, thanks to webassembly.
  
  Photoshop is now available in the browser. Just Excel (not always, sometimes LibreOffice Calc with VBA compatibility does the trick), the other Adobe Creative Cloud applications, and some other Windows-only software (for example I dual boot Windows, because of advanced game macros written in AHK that don't work on Linux via wine or ahk_x11, and I have failed in porting or rewriting them (it's too big of a task, there is a whole team behind the actual macro). So... still some reasoms to run Windows, but fhese reasons are decreasing.
  
  Proper CAD software :(
  
  You're casually blowing off two of the main reasons why I still have to use Windows.
  Is there a Linux alternative to Excel that will allow me to reliably write and execute VBA macros that I can then deploy to my windows using co-workers?
  Is there a Linux alternative to Photoshop? Doesn't even need to be the most current version. I'd be happy with something that is functionally comparable to Photoshop 7.
  I'm not being glib with those questions either. It's been probably ten years since I've really used Linux. If there are legitimate alternatives I'd absolutely give it another go.
- Change is hard.

I love KDE a lot but if I'm honest, I dislike that they posted that... That wasn't kind of them and it was rude to Microsoft!!! I wouldn't insult them ("ditch Windows for good"), well, Microsoft has been using and including Linux too!! So both should be fine and friends.
- Nothing they said was incorrect. All of it is true. It helps common people to understand there are alternatives to Windows.
- I suggest you look up "Microsoft Halloween Documents". They DO NOT see Linux as their friend.

And then I have to install a windows vm to be able to play all my games properly. And the practical benefit of switching is basically zero for the normal user
- You never heard of wine? or proton (THAT STEAM MADE especially for their linux handheld device )?
  
  And you forgot to say that their linux handheld is made with gaming in mind
  
  I know many people here dont like to hear it but: I really dont care about linux. Never used it (except for school projects and once when i tried some stuff on a raspberry pi)
- I switched my gaming pc to Linux over a year ago, never looked back and haven’t needed to
  And I’ve never used a VM to game, either
  
  Same, linux is just so customizable and compatible with everything.
- In a VM you can not really use your GPU so that's not the way to go about it. So no, you seem uninformed
  
  Okay then please give me a rundown of benefits I will get if I switch to linux. And how I will be able to play all my games without issues. And maybe i will think about switching. But as of now, i have to find even a single benefit i care about
- VM adds too much overhead for anything near modern, even if modern VM integration does add GPU drivers that act as a bridge for 3D acceleration. But SteamOS and Steamdeck are great examples of how far gaming has come in Linux, it's no longer something just on the fringe.
  I sort of do agree with your last comment. I tried to introduce several family members, and their take was basically that, why bother with something that seemed as unfamiliar as Linux for something they were already used to using. And if you try to use it at work, you are going to have to end up installing a Windows VM most of the time for most jobs. Monopolies be like that.

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