Time off and a healthy lifestyle are driving some young Americans to Europe: 'You are a person first and a worker 2nd'

25 years I’ve been abroad (The Netherlands) and the work-life balance is why I stayed. They insist I take days off (still foolishly work like an American) and have already booked out a 3 week vacation for later in the year…and I’ll still have nearly 2 weeks of vacation left. We can roll a few weeks of vacation over to the next year if not used. Even though the Dutch have NO holidays from June to Christmas, I’m still able to take 4 day weekends when I want to.

The downside is family left behind may begin to resent you. My family have developed this red-hat victim culture. I can’t bring up how I live abroad or else it starts fights - they don’t want to talk to me now.

Same with the resentment! Lots of people in the US don't want to hear how much better it is elsewhere. GrEaTesT NaTiOn oN eArTh!
- It's funny, because if you're living in the US and bringing up topics (like e.g. healthcare, parental leave, vacation time, sick days, the school system, universal access to universities and higher education, traffic deaths, gun violence, etc. etc. etc.) the reaction is often "well, if you hate it so much, why don't you just leave?"
  
  And then, when you actually leave and live a much more enjoyable and happy life elsewhere, the reaction is "we don't want to hear about it!!!"
- Honestly, EVERY country is doing this. “If you ain’t dutch, you ain’t much” is our ridiculous motto. Pfft.
- Gold plated shithole for those of us unwilling to delude ourselves with that crap.
looks like you should stop talking to that family of yours
- Too late. They stopped taking to me.
Seriously been considering moving the family to the Netherlands or Sweden.

Lived in a few places in Europe over the years. Currently in Canada, which is slowly sliding into being a hellhole like America. 😓
- I’ll be retiring soon and move to Asia with the wife. We’ll leave the light on for ya… 👍
I also moved to the Netherlands recently (but from Germany) and their holiday schedule feels really weird to me. You get a lot from April to June and then nothing until Christmas. They should've spaced that out better.
- Germany isn't that much better, in most states you get two public holidays between June and December, 3rd October and either reformation day or all-saints' day, and those can all be on the weekend so in a bad year you get zero additional days off.
- You do know that most public holidays are based on christian events right? Spacing those out is only possible if we separate those days from religion.
  
  The statuary minimum holiday entitlement of 20 days (most employers give 25+) can be used freely.
Why the resentment though? Is it because they're thinking that they had it terrible and therefore you should too? That you're not a loyal worker and therefore less of a person because of that?

Or can it be that they feel left behind and you talking about how great it is to them sounds like you don't miss them or regret moving away?
- I tried not to parade the differences around, but there would inevitably be issues with any comparisons made. I’m a Democrat, and they are very Republican; this last president has made things very hard. It’s also possibly just simple envy - my father suggested it when he was still with us all - and I’ve tried to keep in touch and be there for children’s birthdays, etc, but now they just turn away. Or just convienent: now 25 years later, I think the friends are more family that actual family.
Jealous! I'd love to be able to move out of the US, but seems you need certain jobs in order to go. Don't think I qualify, so will continue to be a slave to the system here.
- Dunno how old you are, but you can take a loan to study in Europe, get a job, and decide whether you want to pay back the loan or not. If you plan on never returning to the US, then AFAIK, you don't have to pay back shit and there's nothing they can do. Although, maybe that changed when the USA started demanding taxes from Americans abroad and forcing banks to close their accounts abroad too... who knows.
  
  Anyway, it'll probably be cheaper for you to move to Europe.

As an American who has been abroad for many years, can confirm! I'm visiting the states at the moment and its crazy to hear a family member talking about trying to convince their boss that the employees should get five paid sick days a year instead of only three. Three! A year! Insane.

sick days even
- Five!!!
What are you supposed to do?

Turn up, shit yourself, keep helping customers?

Or do you turn up, shit yourself, then get fired?
- Ok, but what matters is your turned up /s
Last year was super shitty, I had COVID twice and Shingles with nerve pains, I've been on sick leave for more than a month over the year, it would have been a disaster without socialized healthcare and workers' insurance

America becoming a third world country.

Always was

(••) (••)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)

If only they would leave their political affiliations and a few bad bits of their culture in the US too, that'd be great. They're otherwise very welcome here, as is anybody else who wants to embrace the European lifestyle and integrate, Iranian, Afghan, Australian, Kenyan, Brazilian, Turkish, whatever.

If I had the money, I'd be running for Europe right now. America has gone to shit and it is only going to get worse from here

The paperwork and logistics is going to be a removed, but if you can start looking for a job in Europe from your current location, the move itself might be less expansive than you expect.
- See, that’s the thing. I’m in film and my goal is to parlay this work into a work visa in Europe for this exact reason. I love my work, but I want benefits and protections that just aren’t afforded me here (because my particular Union in my area is problematic as fuck, not to mention hard to break into). But my concern is how this even gets done.
  
  The US has made it very difficult for citizens of other countries to get paperwork to live and work here, so we see a lot of reciprocation in level of difficulty to leave this place. I wish I could get someone to give me some info on the process that’s been through it
My boyfriend only has a year left of nursing school. With so many countries having a shortage, we are thinking that might help us. Like apperantly in Japan they have a program to get people in for nursing and you can buy a house for cheap. But I'm not sure if I want to love in Japan. About 3-4 months ago I actually had some people from Australia on reddit giving me a lot of good info to help us get over there, and one person was talking to me about New Zealand.

So here's to hoping. I'm gonna miss my family and friends. It's gonna be hard, but I'm tired of this place.
Don't worry. It's also going to shit on this side of the pond.
- It seems to be going to shit in most of the world these days. The fight for freedom and against consolation of power is a never-ending fight.
  
  The future still seems better in western/northern Europe than the US.

If you understand that the high salary is to meet the high cost of living in the United States then you'll understand that it isn't a pay cut. Take that one step further and consider the fact that the higher cost of living does NOT come with a higher quality of life in the US.

Honestly, I moved to Germany two years ago, and I would only go back if my family needed my help in the US. Life feels a lot easier, and more comfortable. Yeah, the winter sucks, but even then I'm outside more than when I lived in the US.

There is no bad weather, just bad clothes.
- how are you cold? just put on another layer B)
- I've found that that's actually very true.
What's wrong with winter?
- Since I came from a very dry, hot area, I'm not used to such long winters, weather that cold, and days that short.

as an European I have to say:

please stop advertising this, they will all come here with their American dreams and turn Europe in USA.

I'm yet to see two of them actually connecting the dots between the "American dream" and the horrible labor laws. They want the wellbeing we have but they also want the rampant capitalism, they think "socialism == communism"

American here - this stuff is actually widely known and accepted among our progressives, who are the people most likely by far to leave.

We just get fucked out of political power at the federal level by the outsized representation of small-population, rural, die-hard-conservative states. For example if the presidency was by popular vote we likely wouldn't have had a Republican president since 93 which would have made the supreme court liberal by 8-1.

At the most fundamental level, the US political system just wasn't built to handle the increasing rural/urban population disparity, and at some point things will need to change. What that change looks like is anybody's guess. One scenario is that with the economic failure of the backwaters, plus the housing crisis and additional automation, it becomes economically feasible to just build/buy enough housing in the backwaters to be able to have a controlling share in the vote. Which obviously sucks in a lot of ways but it might be the solution with the lowest barrier to entry.
Clumping 332 million people together and expecting that they're all the exact same.

Come on, buddy.
I wouldn't worry too much about that. The most reactionary people in the US, those who think socialism is communism and horrible labor laws are "freedom," are too heavily indoctrinated into their own little death cult. They honestly believe there is no country more free than the US and are genuinely fearful of the idea of living anywhere else, they would never move to Europe.

People who live in reality, on the other hand, see how horrible it has become in the US and are looking for a real "land of opportunity," where you do not have to be a willing slave to capital in order to have the right to the basic necessities of life. They are fully disillusioned with the "American dream," and so are more open-minded toward socialism, and are more willing to agree that maybe most countries in Europe provide them with real, actual freedom far more that what they have living in the US.

This has been my experience with immigrants from the US, anyways (and, full disclosure, I am an immigrant as well, just not in Europe).
That’s a weird take on the subject, most American I’ve met or worked with where surprised but happy about our ways.

We might have met totally different kinds of people.
I think you should take the time to actually talk to people rather than throw rancied judgments all around
Wow you're generalizing way too much! An American that had the will to move out of the US is proof enough they think differently, probably. Give them a chance.

A lady I work with in the Netherlands sent me an email Friday. I responded and got an OOTO message saying she's out till 7/31

Definitely jealous

Damn, isn't 8 years a bit much?
- Dunno. Could be 9 years and then I'd be in trouble
I'm in Asia and receive OOTO emails all the time, meanwhile we work even during holidays 🙃. A co worker is a Chilean, and during her 3 weeks leave to go back home after years of not taking any leave, she worked day and night, slept only 3 hours the whole stay. We Asians were successfully brainwashed into the hustle culture
- It's a thing I like about Germans. They tend to be more strict about working hours than other EU countries, let alone somewhere like America.
  
  I worked in the Netherlands for a while, and we'd get loads of German visitors. When we were nearing closing time, we'd often have German visitors going "It's his 'Feierabend'(end of day). He can't help you anymore". Especially when they had a problem that would last till after closing time to solve. And then when you told them "no, no. It's fine." they were genuinely grateful. They didn't expect you to work, when you were no longer being paid to.
  
  You shift starts. You work. Your shift ends. You are no longer working.
  
  The unsurprising result: experts often say German workers outperform American workers. Turns out strictly enforcing working hours, allowing workers to recuperate when they're not on shift, means they end up working harder when they are on shift.

I'd do it if I could afford it or was younger. Honestly wish I had. The sacrifice now, with family and kids, is too massive.

You can get a new family and kids! Or bring em I guess

Muss gerade an diesen Bericht von kürzlich denken, ebenfalls vom glorreichen Business Insider:

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-germany-relocation-american-move-disappointing-2023-6

Lustiger Kontrast.

Generell lustiger Artikel, danke.
- "We live in a small German town called Otterberg" had me laughing out loud.
  
  I was wondering where she could be living - maybe Munich or some other city in Bavaria, where people are not exactly known for warming up easily on foreigners (read: people from more than 20 minutes away). But no - she's living in Otterberg. Hilarious.
Was für ein dämlicher Artikel. Wäh, wäh, ich wohne in einem kleinen Dorf und habe nicht Zugang zu allen Modern conveniences wie in einer grossen Stadt. Wäääh... Echt, jetzt?
- Haha genau das habe ich beim lesen gedacht. "Warum hilft mir denn keiner? Ich vermisse Walmart!" lol
- Mein Highlight war dass sie einen schlechten job hat bei dem sie in einer schwachen Währung Geld verdient aber Deutschland ist teuer.
Moving abroad is always challenging and not for everyone, some people can't adapt to a different way of life.

Those damn lazy immigrants only want to exploit us! We can't accomodate them all!

(I hope it's clear that this is a joke)

/s is easier to point out it is a joke

I'm bitter because I was never well off enough to escape to Europe. Best I could do is maliciously complying with USA capitalism and becoming an anti-consumer

I went as a student (free university!) and managed to stay.

I lived in Italy for two years and would love to go back someday.

I'm approaching the end of a four-year stay in Italy, and I'm considering chaining myself to a fence post or something. The country is a mess, but the quality of life just cannot be beat.

If only Europe wanted us there! If moving there were easy, I'd have done it years ago. Unfortunately, I probably need to wait until I retire.

just a heads up, retiring to europe is only possible in very few places and a few more if you're loaded.
- Yep. Focused on a Portuguese passive income visa. Portugal is beautiful

Yeah it's very attractive but not the easiest to obtain citizenship.

That depends a lot of the country. In some EU countries is rather easy and cheap.
- As a former EU citizen (UK, thanks Brexit) which countries do you think it is easy? I don't think it is, I believe there is Malta where you can literally buy a passport and Portugal that has some lax visa laws. But gaining citizenship isn't necessarily an easy thing to do.
- Do you have any examples? I thought even the more lenient ones require you to study there for 5+ years or work in some highly sought after sector.
Yeah they weren't looking for people like me last I checked

IDK, does the salary deficit makes up for it?

Depends entirely on your values and perspective

If you're coming from the upper echelons of US income then it might not.

Otherwise you'll potentially find the increase in quality of life to be significant.

Americans work too much, commute to much and don't take enough holidays. Europeans work significantly less hours day to day, have significantly shorter commutes on average and have legally required and protected minimum annual leave that vastly outstrips US workers.

E.g. Take myself and a US friend in a very similar job into account. Yes he earns roughly double what I do.

However I average 10-15 hours less work a week than he does.

My commute is half what his is and I have actual public transport options that aren't trash if my car broke down.

I get 38 days of paid leave a year. 8 national holidays and the time between Christmas and Jan 1st by default.. That leaves me with 27 days to use with some degree of freedom. He's lucky if he takes ten days total per year.

I get private healthcare but also know that if that was removed from my benefits I'd have access to state healthcare without the risk of bankruptcy.

Those listed things are just employment based. Culture is also a factor. I've never once worried about being shot in my entire life. Our food quality standards are higher whilst also costing significantly less. We don't have the institutionalised national self delusion of tipping culture. Our religious and crazy right wing aren't politically powerful enough to be dragging us kicking and screaming inti the 18th century like the US is. We aren't completely and utterly dependent on cars, so being car free is a viable way to live.

My final note is this. I'm not some US hating zealot. I literally booked flights for a two week holiday in the US yesterday. I adore the NBA and find American people to be absolutely lovely on average. But I couldn't live the way most Americans do.
- What always seemed strange to me: Every single US-American I've ever personally met (in Europe or the US) has always been nothing but polite, helpful and friendly. But 300 million of them (mayby together with historcal ballast) create this political system that seems to be rather counterproductive for raising the average standard of living (emphasis on average, if you are in the top 10%, USA seems to be a nice place to be).
  
  I do concede, that the average standard of living is still impressive, but the continual improvement of the 50s and 60s seems to have stopped
look at it this way, necessities in USA are largely out of reach (health care, education, housing, funded retirement) and luxaries are easy to come by (phones, sneakers, branded clothing, streaming etc).

Whereas in Europe, the necessities are much more attainable for the population at any income bracket. Do you have much more "free cash"? No. Do you need it? No, you have a social safety net.

Even vacas in Europe are cheaper bc for an American to travel to Europe is very expensive by means of airplane. In Europe you can take a high speed train and be in any climate.

On the topic of trains, Public transit is more efficient there than it is to drive cars in the states. Imagine not having to buy a ~$30k car every 10 years? Not to mention fuel and maintain it.
Without an atom of doubt. I've experienced both, and I will make the choice of paycut again a hundred times if I had to choose again.
I cannot speak to what working in Europe is like, but as someone who works in the public sector in a very blue state, the work/life balance and benefits are unmatched. Yes, the pay is slightly less, but it is more than worth it imo if it means I only have to work 4 days and 35 hours a week, and not 6 days and 70 hours a week.
Coders in the US can make six figures easy. In Spain it's like 20-40k, 60kish un Luxembourg if you're a specialist and got a masters degree, etc. I've looked at the tech jobs in Europe in general and I'm unimpressed.
- Wages in general are much better in the US. But then expenses also tend to be higher, not only health, even the tipping gets crazy expensive. But in the end it's very personal, what makes you happy? Is it money? Being close to family? Being in your own country? For most people the move would be too troublesome to be worth it, I guess.
- Rookie mistake is to look for coding jobs in Luxembourg, you earn 68k as a elementary school teacher
- Wages in general are much better in the US. But then expenses also tend to be higher, not only health, even the tipping gets crazy expensive. But in the end it's very personal, what makes you happy? Is it money? Being close to family? Being in your own country? For most people the move would be too troublesome to be worth it, I guess.
- Wages in general are much better in the US. But then expenses also tend to be higher, not only health, even the tipping gets crazy expensive. But in the end it's very personal, what makes you happy? Is it money? Being close to family? Being in your own country? For most people the move would be too troublesome to be worth it, I guess.

And only the poor and/or uneducated will stay behind. The USA is going down fast.

Bad take. There aren't droves of people leaving the U.S.

High skilled immigration to the U.S is still big. Hell, its a problem for European tech companies, as their best engineers get poached by the U.S.

Might be a surprising take for some, but Europeans still move to the U.S today. Not in the droves of the 20th century, but still an amount. 12% of all immigrants to the U.S are from Europe in 2021.
- That's not immigration, those Europeans generally don't move to the US to stay. The US are a place to make lots of money while your're young, who the hell would want to fund a family or grow old there: The wages might be high, but to get an equivalent level of social security and general quality of life none of it would be left.
I don't think that's really true. The US is still the largest economy and attracts many educated and highly skilled people in the tech sector.

Certain parts are declining for sure, but I don't think that applies to the whole country.
- That's what I mean. The middle class is shrinking to non-existent. The few that can afford to jump out of it do it and only someone who can live really well in the USA would consider going there.
  
  The USA will become a land of the rich and poor. No more middle-class.
The educated are paid way more in the US. Americans buy houses and stuff. Unimaginable for most Europeans who don't get to inherit one. Also Europe is on the decline. Due to terrible demographics mostly.
- Buying a house in a soulless suburb and living on the driver's seat of a car staring at nothing but other cars and concrete? No, thanks. I believe in the inherent superiority of urbanity.
- Not everyone wants to live in a dystopian country. Yes you earn more but everything is also more expensive and things like decent public transport and not to see misery everyday are also nice
- You're being downvoted, but the salary argument is completely true.
  
  I did some calculations before when I was talking to my friend. I live in the U.S now. I'm Romanian. If I were to move back to Romania I'd be taking something like a 70% salary cut. If I were to move somewhere Americans are more familiar with like the Netherlands, I would be taking something like a 40% salary cut.
  
  You guys in here are patting each other on the back, but I've talked to some miserable engineers from Europe who feel like they have no way out. They are making a pittance what their peers are making elsewhere.
- Americans buy houses and stuff. Unimaginable for most Europeans who don’t get to inherit one.
  
  I've got bad news for you. The median income-housing ratio is going down on both sides of the pond.
  
  Agree with the rest though.
- Honey what, you seen the housing market recently?? Fuck I'd trip and break my arm and get the Honor of being a slave to the system for the rest of my life
- "Terrible demographics" will ensure bigger inheritances to Europeans..

Wish I had the money to afford moving out there alone. Jealous.

When America sends its people, they’re not sending their best.

I get the reference, youre not alone

I vacationed in Germany recently. Something about it just felt right... But it would be hard to be so far from my family, and probably harder to make friends or find a church. :(

Church? Easy. Catholic in the South, EKD in the North, take it or be a weirdo cultist. Orthodox is acceptable.
There’s plenty of churches. If you live in a city there are usually many churches to choose from.
- We have tons of churches in the States, too, it's a matter of finding one that's not weird politically, promoting nationalism or the equivalent of US far-right crazy.

I mean. At least the americans speak and write the better english. There's just something about british pronunciation and spelling which makes it feel ugly.

I'm not sure I'd want to go to Europe right now as a means of improving my mental health. Look at what is unfolding in France, or the far-right leaders popping up elsewhere. The US is rough but I'm hopeful we've already weathered that storm. With Russia on your doorstep too, I'd just prefer to travel elsewhere.

It’s because you’re living these events through the prism of TV News. I live in France, I was born here, I’ve lived in other countries too, but here is where I chose to stay.

I haven’t seen any of the events depicted in the news. I know bad events are taking place, I know the president and government are morons. This has zero impact on my daily life. I just mind my business and do my thing.
- No Europe is uninhabitable. Americans should stay safe in their perfect utopia.
- Yeah, but you can say the same thing about life in America for all the people living here and moving. It doesnt look like the grass is any greener.
  
  Not that I have a horse in this race.
The US is rough but I’m hopeful we’ve already weathered that storm.

We haven't. Not by a long shot. We've only barely passed the "Beer Hall Putsch" phase of our descent, and we didn't even manage to arrest our Hitler. In other words, we're doing even worse than the Weimar Republic.