Microsoft will let users uninstall Edge, Bing, and disable ads on Windows 11 as it complies with the Digital Markets Act
Microsoft will let users uninstall Edge, Bing, and disable ads on Windows 11 as it complies with the Digital Markets Act
Microsoft ensures Windows 11 is compliant with the Digital Markets Act in the European Economic Area.
First RCS now this, today has been wild
I'm a Linux guy and I don't really care about Windows, but I'm glad to see this happening and every day I thank Europe for being the main entity fighting for regulation of big tech monopolies, because America is really failing.
Its nuts that during the Obama admin, all anyone cared about was the threat of zero privacy. Now everyone in the US has surrendered to it, because our politicians have sold our digital privacy rights to the tech companies.
If we had actual IT giants in Europe, this would look very different.
I've seen how the car industry in Germany only got a slap on the wrist because of Dieselgate and even got the chance to send out advertisement payed by the government.
I feel like the only reason stuff like this gets pushed so hard is because we try to slow down the current IT giants until we get our shit together.
I'm glad that we do it, but i wouldn't say we are better than anyone else.
EU is very much a mixed bag. On the one hand, they do this, on the other hand, they tried to ban P2P encryption and microtargetted religious and elderly in resisting countries, feeding them the classic "it's for the children's safety" lies.
Though we have to remind ourselves that it's mainly the EU Commission who does this.
The Supreme Court spoke out against it from the very beginning, the Parliament voted against it, it's really only the Commission who doesn't want to understand that EU law applies to them, too.
Quite a few positions in there that need to be held by new people who understand the damn law.
they tried to ban P2P encryption
They recently enshrined it as an unalienable human right as a world first.
California is doing okay, all things considered
I wonder if Windows in Non-EU areas does not have this kind of choice.
Well, does not matter, I use Linux, too.
America is a huge corporation.
This apparently only applies to Europe, say least for now.
Wait for it. Slow roll outs
How do you know someone uses Linux?
Don't worry they'll tell you
As a Linux user (and ex arch user btw), I'm deeply offended.
I use Linux (one that's based on Arch btw) Make one guess at:
- my diet
- what I think is the best text editor
Seriously, how am I supposed to keep quiet when I find a clearly superior choice? Especially when most people feel a psychological barrier to trying it, that turns out to be not nearly as big as the adcantages.
ABOUT FUCKING TIME. Take edge and shove it so far up your data tracking sphincter of a face hole.
Can we please get these laws on a global level.
I’m not disagreeing, but what entity would enforce those global laws?
Space force?
If I have to keep a chromium browser around, in addition to Firefox, I'd rather edge than mainline Chrome.
I'm not sure I would. Edge is trash, it keeps shoving the AI bullshit, all the MSN news stuff, ads for cheaper shopping, all in your face when you first start up. While you can turn it off, it gets annoying doing that every time you reinstall or spin up a new VM. Chrome, for all its faults, is a lot less annoying freshly installed.
I appreciate your sense of relief, but don't share it. This isn't the first time Microsoft has been ordered to stop pushing its stuff (remember Internet Explorer?) and I'm sure it won't be the last.
Nope. But hey look, the Democrats are coming to take your guns!
Hey, 'Muricans, how come we need to pressure every company into compliance for you?
See: Regulatory Capture
Sorry, our country is currently on fire 😕
For $100,000 the US Congress will tell you!
Nah. Those corps will still do it at home or sell it as PR at home.
Hey, 'Peans, how come you think a country larger than your pseudo continent is a homogenous hivemind?
E: what Ive learned from this comment is that apparently, all europeans share 1 single trait, which is just utterly horrid reading comprehension
The US is smaller than Europe in size of population and in area.
Thank you Europe. Once again you prove yourself to be what we all aspire to be.
As an American, all I can say is thank you Europe for continuing to have sensible legislation that forces these companies to have decent policies worldwide if only to comply with EU laws. I only use Windows on my company provided laptop but just because I don't need to worry about it personally doesn't mean that I shouldn't care about how it affects others.
We're basically dependent on the EU and California to have any rights as consumers at all.
That's pretty crazy when I think about it. And I'm from within the EU.
Don't forget California's emissions standards effectively forcing car manufacturers to make more efficient vehicles for the entire NA market!
So apparently having consumer-friendly laws does in fact lead to better products. Cool.
Perhaps the USA and other countries should follow the EU's good example on this.
But socialism! They're all gonna be starving and homeless! Any day now...
(they're starving and homeless under capitalism)
must be evil socialisms fault /s
USA politicians are paid for and if anything they will never do this in fact they will do the exact opposite and make it easier for corporations to exploit people.
Yeah turns out businesses behave when you legislate their misdeeds instead of just calling them job creators
Now there will be two versions of Windows. One that adheres to EU regulation, and another that's filled with ads for everyone else.
There sort of already is https://www.howtogeek.com/322112/what-is-an-n-or-kn-edition-of-windows/
It’ll be one version, they’ll just force certain “features” on you based on the region you’re in as determined by your system time, GPS location, or IP address
system time, GPS location, or IP address
They can all easily be spoofed or changed.
They say if you don't pay, you're the product, but that's obviously bullshit, paying solves nothing. The saying should be never trust corporations.
If you don't pay, you are the product. If you pay, you are the product + you are paying.
I just switched to Linux. Get fucked!
and that's the only long-term winning move, because MS shenanigans will never end
I'm team Linux as well
I, really really want to switch to Linux. I duel boot and use Linux for study. but there are some apps I just can't get around, and have to switch back to Windows for. I ran some cool scripts that stripped Windows of bloat and uninstalled edge and ads, and I have to say. it's almost as nice as Linux now. runs faster too.
Honestly what finally pushed me was when windows suddenly decided that going to sleep and keeping on sleeping was too much to ask for. Haven't found anything that doesn't work on Linux yet, but I mostly play games.
Its a bit of drama but if you have a look at setting up qemu with virtual machine manager its worthwhile.
It makes virtual machines that directly utilize the hardware, meaning you can run your stripped out windows inside a window on your Linux desktop.
Its pretty hard to get your GPU to pass through but if its non-gpu oriented apps you need its perfect. My fixed windows VM boots in about 10 seconds, has next to zero network usage, uses 2 cpus and 4gb of ram, and just runs its couple of little apps no trouble every day
Same, but I switched back today. DaVinci Resolve doesn't support AAC audio on Linux, even on the paid version (literally everything uses AAC audio). The closest thing to any kind of usable photo editor is photopea, and that's web only.
Linux is just unusable for media creation, unfortunately.
Unless your media is made in Blender, then it's pretty good. Inkscape has been getting nicer, too.
But that's about it, yeah.
Man I miss Linux, I swear one day I'll install it on my old Mac, at least as a funny project.
Regulation works.
Once steam covers 90% of games windows becomes irrelevant.
So what you’re saying is, 2024 will be the year of Linux on the desktop?
I know that phrase is the most beaten dead horse around at this point but the year of the Linux desktop is going to be different depending on what your requirements are.
If you just need to browse the web, it's been there for over a decade. Same for most dev work.
For gaming, it's already there for most titles. Pretty much everything I try works now unless it has anticheat. It's been in a pretty good state for 2 or 3 years now at least.
For media creation and specialized software, it's not there yet. The big stuff like adobe will probably never get ported and the free alternatives vary wildly in quality. Blender is awesome. GIMP is not. There's also issues like lacking color management and iffy HDR support.
But which distro though?
yes he did and if it doesn't happen we can shame him for all eternety, but i'm right with you there buddy: 2024 lets gooooooo!
it already is irrelevant for many people
As long as many important games fall into that 10% many gamers won't consider Linux.
Not to mention Adobe/Office/CAD suites that will prevent others from switching.
And finally most pcs are sold with windows preinstalled and the vast majority of people don't even know that other OS even exist.
Also a lot of high end medical equipment. Some stuff will only work/communicate with Windows XP, even today, for instance.
For gamers-only maybe lmao
E: and people willing to spend several hours a month wondering why their OS broke again
Hmm. My partner's Linux machine is perfectly stable and has been for a decade. I administer it for them, but that's just running updates and distribution upgrades every now and then
My server takes more effort, as distribution upgrades sometimes break stuff, for example the mailing list manager I have used for a long time became deprecated and was disabled on the recent LTS upgrade
My laptop running Ubuntu from the factory is perfectly fine, I'll probably make it less stable by moving it to Debian
If you stick to Ubuntu you usually don't have that problem IMHO.
Does Linux let you disable its system-embedded advertisements? Didn't think so!
I just wish it would stop showing me ads for Linus' Only Fans. Like, I already subbed, please go away.
It does.
sudo pro config set apt_news=falseandsudo truncate -s0 /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20apt-esm-hook.confBut I feel sorry for you if you are still using Ubuntu at this point.
Why?
Which flavor?
Only in EU/EEA countries. So us here in
GileadAmerica are SOL at the momentAt last. This is actually good news for Windows itself because people will be more inclined to use it again if they don't see ads, aren't tracked, can set any default browser etc.
So it's good for both users and Microsoft.
Sometimes these corporations just can't help themselves by adding trash and they need a mommy figure to force them to stop doing that which ultimately benefits themselves.
Thing is for me windows opened a pandora's box that goes further than just ad-free, once I started getting into open software thanks to switching to linux, I realized it's not just the them saying there's no tracking, it's the being able to see it for yourself, it's the there being a 1000 eyes on a project that don't have a motivation to lie to you, checking making sure that there are no trackers.
It's no longer just sbout them saying "it's all good we ain't spying" it's about a project with a thousand eyes on them making sure this is actually the case, plus the nature of most open licenses where every fork also needs to follow such license.
It's starting to become a sort of change in how I see society working with each other and I whish there were other aspects of life where such a philosophy vould be applied.
Agree 100%. Free Software user here. Linux Mint Debian Edition is what I'm running.
I wish all software and hardware abided by the FOSS principles
I’m genuinely worried if hell is okay, are you guys getting a tad chilly?
We've somehow managed to create reverse climate change in the unholy fires themselves
Next up to freeze: Google's unholy war on ad-blockers. A decisive blow to that would make this a holy trilogy 😄
IT Sysadmin from the non-profit circle checking in. It's actually unseasonably warm right now.
I can't speak for the pharmaceutical IT, Medical IT, metal fabrication IT, bakery IT, education IT, or embedded systems IT circles, though. Might be getting nippy over thereabouts.
Based EU.
Hell has truly frozen over. I guarantee that uninstalling edge will break something else in Windows
EU to the rescue once again.
As a Linux user, this is freaking funny.
Even better as a Windows 10 user - get to avoid the issues with version 11 and the issues with Linux!
Even better as a Windows 10 user
is EU based or something
Uh... Yes. Yes we are.
Does this also mean Google will let me uninstall Chrome from my Android device? Or is this only about PC's?
I hope we will get there too. Be able to fully install and uninstall Google services.
Chrome browser? I could uninstall that right away.
How do they verify that I'm in the EEA? Do I need to sign up through a VPN when I register Windows or do I just specify an EEA country during the install?
It seems in some cases when it comes to protecting you from industry practices can only be handled by government agencies.
You should still switch to Linux.
I will do whatever it takes for my non-European windows install to behave like a European windows install.
If I got rid of ads on windows if be much happier with the OS and would not have such a grudge against using it.
I can’t wait until benchmarks are run on the two versions side by side to see if it impacts battery life and or performance.
If you used Linux your OS wouldn't be trying to subvert your well being by casually manipulating you while you are just trying to get shit done.
I actually use Linux on everything other than my work computer due to needing a few programs that absolutely will not work on Linux and do not have Linux alternatives.
Until you can't game at 4k, 120hz, with an HDR high resolution display.
But, from the most recent time I tried it: Display scaling doesn't always work (150% UI). 2x worked fine, it is supposed to work fine with wayland, but wayland didn't seem to like nvidia drivers. Many anti cheats don't work. WoW didn't work (though it should based off the wine compatibility reviews). Bluetooth had issues (didn't reconnect on startup I think).
While I'd love to change to linux, every time it's always been inferior for my personal use cases. As windows gets worse, and linux gets better, eventually the time will come when I switch. But for a great many people, the support simply isn't there yet.
I don't get why Linux users don't understand that they are part of like a 1% bubble. 99% of people would not enjoy Linux. I'm a Pop Os user myself and seeing what I have to do sometimes to get simple everday things to work that work right out of the box in Windows and MacOs is rediculus. No normie would ever figure out what to do even when googling. Linux is an exclusive Pc enthusiast operating system. Even the beginner friendly distros are not "dump proof" enough for the regular person. There is no use in advocating it on every problem post from Windows or MacOs. You're doing no one a favor with it.
Wait, what's the RCS news you're referring to OP?
Apple announced RCS support is coming
Expardon me?!
But will they let you disable tracking and telemetry?
You wanna guess?
I already know the answer. Windows isn’t the product. We’re the product.
This is Microsoft... What's the catch?
I think it only applies to Europe
Most likely, they have "N" versions for some time for EU regulated countries
https://www.itprotoday.com/windows-10/what-are-windows-10-n-and-kn-editions
I live in the UK, and because of Brexit we won't get this. Thanks Nigel Farage.
I expect that it's because we're not in the EU that measures like this can be passed there. Maybe in 10-20 years time we can rejoin an EU massively improved by our absence.
Not true. There has been big moment against the MS monoply by the EU, pre-Brexit. Truth is, the UK hasn't been powerful enough to stop these large antitrust cases for a long time. Brexit or not.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Corp._v._Commission
I read elsewhere that this good news only benefits EU users of Windows 11.
At least in the past this sort of thing has sometimes made it into Group Policy settings that can be set if you use the Pro version of Windows, but more and more of that is locked down.
A bunch of privacy related settings for Edge can only be set if you're running the Education version of Windows. On Pro/Enterprise the options are available but won't work. Microsoft is determined to make it impossible to run Windows without allowing them to do whatever they want with your data.
They are using the region setting to drive this, so it won’t be GPO enabled in a way that makes sense to do outside of the EU.
How do I trick my computer into thinking I'm in Europe?
Better yet, trick your local legislator to get equivalent regulations implemented.
Sign up for this video's sponsor, NordVPN
Obligatory Mullvad > Nord
If it's how the did the earlier EU versions (no inbuild IE or media player), there'll be an N version of windows for the EU market.
Change your region location.
What is the point of Microsoft keeping Edge when most people avoid it?
Enough don't avoid it.
It allows them to scrap more data and push their web services. It also gives them leverage in web standards completion. The have a browser and user base that they can diverge from chrome.
With the revelations coming out due to the court cases. Microsoft might be (or at least aiming to) get a cut of Google revenue like apple gets for safari users. Google is probably very happy that edge (which is 99% chrome) is the default in most desktops.
I usually use Firefox, but sometimes a website won't work on it, for example so web apps like Adobe Express just refuse to work. In these cases I use Edge, not Chrome anymore. Between the two, Edge has better privacy and has some really nice features. It also works better with my work stuff thanks to integration with 365.
What I'm going with this is that there's definitely a user base for Edge. Between it and Chrome, I'd go with Edge any day. Firefox still beats both though.
I'm desperately waiting for a reputed company like Samsung to ditch windows and introduce linux pre-installed laptops
Samsung a reputed company? The Samsung of the ad-ridden smart TVs?
System 76
There was a brief moment in the 2000s where major manufacturers were selling computers with Linux preinstalled. A lot of netbooks and thin clients had Ubuntu as an option.
I was not born then🙁
Doesn't Samsung have nutty bloatware too?
Like Dell?
Dell's Linux support is laughable. I have the distinct displeasure of dealing with their shit quality right now. Camera doesn't work, fans spin up for no reason, graphics card stutters / sometimes there's no hardware acceleration... Actual linux shops like system76, purism, tuxedocomputers, slimbook, and other better hardware, better pricing, and better hardware support.
Dell, Fujitsu, HP, etc. are OK as Linux hardware providers, but it's clear that their main business is till WIndows.
Samsung once used tizen instead of android just like that, Their own distro would increase traction in this platform
Simply having the option is a good start, but a lot of people would buy those and ask "a friend" to install windows instead. I've seen that happen quite often in the early 2010s
You can (could?) get Thinkpads with Ubuntu preinstalled.
ThinkPad is no longer a good computer for GNU/Linux
Framework make good laptops that can come with Ubuntu
isn't Android based on Linux?
I wonder if this also applies to allow uninstalling Safari browser on MacOS, and allow other browser engines into iOS devices instead of WebKit Safari clones.
Yeah! How about allowing uninstallation of Chrome from Android?!
Oh god yes, would love that.
And all those dumb bloatware browsers on Samsung devices as well
I would be so happy if they just let browser extensions work on 3rd party browsers. They already force them to use WebKit. Why are the extensions not working?
Brussels Effect at work again.
The sad thing is that this happens because someone forces them to comply and not out of principle.
All for a $12 a month subscription!
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Microsoft has published a new blog post which details how Windows 11 will be made compliant with the Digital Markets Act (DMA) in the European Economic Area (EEA.)
To be compliant, Microsoft has made several changes to the OS, which now allows users to choose between providers and uninstall most in-box apps.
The company describes these changes as specific to Windows 11 PCs in the EEA, so it's unclear if users outside this area will be able to utilize these functions.
These changes will rollout in preview on Windows 11 in the Insider Beta Channel in the coming weeks, and will become generally available early next year.
The EEA is an economic and political union that spans 27 countries in the European and surrounding area.
In the case of Microsoft, this means not forcing users to use Edge or Bing, and ensuring the OS is interoperable with other services where necessary.
The original article contains 488 words, the summary contains 151 words. Saved 69%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
This is cool and all, but why do we always stop at Microsoft? I think it would be more impactful in 2023 if we can uninstall Safari from iOS devices and Chrome from Android?
Will they?
Or will you just be able to hide them?
Start menu, search suggestions from the start menu. They can be disabled/hidden from view so you may have done so while customizing Windows?
Uninstall Bing? When did Bing become an installable thing?
They probably mean your browser/search engine settings will actually be respected, instead of what sometimes happens now where you can have set everything to not use bing or edge but still certain MS software will launch a search in edge, using bing.
Wow, that's a hellscape straight out of 2008.
It's probably not about that, but Bing is actually integrated in the start/search menu by default.
This is the first time I saw a post get over 1000 upvotes in 15 hours.
RCS and this? Seems hell has indeed frozen over in the tech world today.
What's the rcs thing? Is Apple finally going to adopt it?
Yep, they said a software update is coming next year.
Probably part of their legal appeal to get themselves removed from the Digital Services Act... something they're a niche player in the messaging services industry... Never mind the fact iMessage has billions of users sending a quarter million messages per second.
Just Europe, doing Europe things.
What happens if you uninstall edge and you don't have any other browsers?
How do you reinstall it or install a different one without a secondary computer?
I imagine you can install it through the Microsoft Store or via the add/remove Windows features function
Back in my days we had windows versions that didn't come with ethernet driver
USB stick with a browser installer or a portable installation.
Windows will probably gladly reinstall Edge via some update service.
I remember installing Netscape Navigator and Mozilla like this across some years. But it was CD-Rs.
Download file from another system.
Use wget in powershell to download it in same system.
Use winget to install browser.
wsl --installsudo apt updatesudo apt install firefox -ycurl
into a ball and cry?
You can use winget via powershell winget install firefox
Or you use the Microsoft store to install another browser
From shell
winget install --id=Mozilla.Firefox -e
For example
Hopefully you'd be able to do so from the Microsoft store
Winget like everyone said. But you can also download the exe with powershell if you know the url (otherwise just download the page and have fun finding the link haha)
Didn’t we do this already back in the 90s with IE bundling??
So it won't force Secure boot anymore?
LOL
that's for locking out Linux,
Bless the EU
It does specify the European economic area for (EEA) for these changes. Looks like I'm living in Europe ;)
Get ready for that sweet € symbol everywhere. I live in Brexitland so I can sort of get by with Ireland as a region, but it’s not great if you’re wishing to see your own decimal separators etc.
Wow, are we getting Windows N again?
Only in the EU right? Also what's up with RCS?
Time for everyone to tell Microsoft we live in France!
Apple is adding RCS.
Oh that's cool.
What about RCS?
I might upgrade now from 10. Imagine giving what consumers want.
Imagine being forced to give what consumers want due to European legislation.
Welcome to the American tech industry.
I wonder if this affects any of the telemetry systems they use to send user data back to the mothership (Microsoft servers)? I haven't looked into it in a while but there used to be a powershell script to disable a lot of it in the registry.
I'm a bit surprised, this time it took them so long I thought they stopped about even pretending.
What happened with RCS?
I wonder whether Microsoft makes enough money on analytics and ads worldwide, minus Europe, to split off a separate dev team. I hope not, but I think they do… Please choose the easier, objectively better option and just make these a checkbox for everyone, windows.
This sounds to good to be true.. What's the catch? A monthly subscription??
They say that you will be able to remove these, not that they will not install them, so...
I wish Apple would let me uninstall Apple Music and stop media keys opening it by default.
You can delete Apple Music
On iOS, when you delete a system app, all you're doing is removing user data and the configuration files for it.
On Android, when you disable a system app, all you're doing is removing user data and the configuration files for it.
In both scenarios, the app is still retained. You've only removed it from your home screen and anywhere it may appear in actions.
Removing built-in iOS apps won’t free up storage space on your device.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/100567
Because the app is still functionally there. This has been the case since Apple introduced the feature in iOS 10.
On MacOS?
Just in time for Windows 10 going out of support. I guess the next time Windows nags my wife about updating to 11 I can tell her to go ahead.
I always hear people complaining about ads on their win 11 and it confuses me, as I've never seen a single ad in my win 11 install.
In what section are the ads showing up?
On the widgets board and the news app. It's shown up in occasional other locations
I use the News app only on accident sometimes, so I'm not certain about that. There has definitely never been an ad on my widget board. Are there any differences in Win 11 Pro to other versions?
I also paid like 18€ for a key and did a fresh install instead of an upgrade if that makes any difference.
damn, Europe is wild!
Huh, so not in Switzerland?
I believe Switzerland is not a part of the EU
Yes, and not on the list. Still, that small country in the center of EU...
I seem to recall this also applies to WebKit on iOS. Thank god.
Adesso è godopoli
Holy shit I am going back to Windows then!
This is terrible news for everyone like me that wants to incessantly tell people to switch to Linux. While I'm here, do it. Any distro other than Ubuntu and it's deranged derivatives please.
I mean it's a good thing they are doing this, but I was kinda hoping they would go full suicide like unity or musk's twatter. It's also too little too late. They should allow straightforward telemetry disabling.
Agreed that Linux is better. Disagreed on Ubuntu, that is a fantastic distro.
Also, let people use what they want, you're not the fsf.