Microsoft may replace the Start button with the Copilot AI in Windows 12

I’ve often wondered what new and innovative ways Microsoft could find to make my computer even less likely to do what I want.

But AI, bro
- Bro, remember when VR was all the rage? EVERYTHING was pushing VR, so much so ~~Facebook~~ Meta went all in on it.
  
  Now it's a fucking novelty at best.
- It's very obvious that they rushed Copilot. What should have been an assistant like Jarvis in Iron Man, has literally no purpose and can't do anything useful.
The product people who determine this shit need to be fired. If I had to guess, they're over there planning this in Macs and shit. Force them to use their product and that will help resolve these dumb issues.
- Yep, the reason Macs are more usable is not that they are usable in general, it's that they can't keep the pace with Windows.

This might just be the push I need to switch to Linux desktop.

Do it. With proton the last argument for me to use windows is gone (gaming).
- Well, it's not GONE. There are still plenty of games that won't run well on Linux, or they won't allow online multiplayer because their anti-cheat software is restricted to Windows. But that number is getting smaller every day.
- Can you run Adobe software via proton? As soon as that works I'll be on Linux.
- roblox:
Do it.
- Dooooooittttttt!
[5 years later]

"it wasn't"
I spent the last ~10 days "playing" with many distros, including testing some current games, and I am literally right now backing up my files and about to reformat my main PC to linux (full drive, no dual). This is after only having experience with copy-paste Raspberry PI guides for my pi-hole.

Don't totally believe "oh it's so easy, nothing to configure" - those people are lying, especially if you've not used Linux before. But several flavors of Ubuntu are quite pleasant, and I appear to have found a home with PopOS. I can't find anything that "doesn't work", and the worst fixes were just quick searches for help. PopOS won due to nvidia compatibility and a nice, snappy desktop. It also was the fastest in overall reformat cycle time. My wife's computer is still Windows, if I do have any microsoft emergencies.
- There are some games that just will not work even under proton, or that have functional restrictions. It's way fewer games than it used to be, but it's still not an absolutely perfect solution. I would love to make Linux my gaming OS instead of my "getting shit done" OS like it currently is, I've been advocating for it for a few decades at this point and it's almost there, but it's not to a point yet where I can unreservedly recommend it to gamers. If you aren't a gamer I'd say it's already good enough for anything you need.
- How easy was setting up the pi-hole?
- Congrats on picking an awesome distro! :) Pop is really nice, and I’m really excited to see what they do with their desktop environment. I feel like we’re spoiled for choice right now on Linux.
  
  There are always things to configure, just like on Windows. I think some people kind of forget that they had to learn to configure things on Windows at one point. xD
- OpenSUSE Tumbleweed is rather easy.
  
  But anyway, no mainstream user-friendly Linux distribution is that hard to use if you can read and think.
  
  So when people say that they can't manage one on their desktop - they also usually can't manage Windows on their desktop, they just think they can.
Lol, every single Microsoft article has this comment.
been working on it here. i've just moved my multi-monitor setup at the office over to debian mint, and relegated windows to a crt.

i can't go "all in", as supporting windows desktops "pays the rent", but it'll be "all but one" at home and at the office.
if you're using windows in 2023, I doubt it
- I use Windows, macOS, and Linux, but all in separate ways. Haven’t used a desktop Linux in quite some time — only headless Linux servers.
- Why? I switched to Linux in 2023.

Nope

Well in that case I might replace windows 12 with not using windows 12

Im 70% sure I'm replacing wins 11 with Linux already so join us
A few weeks ago when they made the search bar come back after I had told it to go away I switched to Linux. It's weird the small annoyances that add up. It's great so far. With KDE for the desktop environment, you can make it look however you want, including almost identical to any version of windows you want. It's really quite usable, and generally I'm already faster and more comfortable with it than I was with windows.
XP gang
- Botnet gang :/

Is this like the previous theory that Windows 12 would be subscription based?

“The Copilot is like the Start button,” Nadella explains. “It becomes the orchestrator of all your app experiences. So for example, I just go there and express my intent and it either navigates me to an application or it brings the application to the Copilot, so it helps me learn, query and create — and completely changes, I think, the user habits.”

Saying "copilot is like the start button" is not saying "copilot will replace the start button", the article is dishonest clickbait and stupid.

This is just MS taking another kick at Cortana, this time powered by LLM generative AI.

This post needs to be somehow tagged as misleading. Too many people are going to accept the headline at face value.
- Given Microsoft's track record, it's also not hard to believe, which makes it even worse
Remember those times when Microsoft said that Windows 10 would be the last version of Windows, as it will get to a free "Windows-as-a-Service" model? My ass, now
- I can't find the words to describe how absolutely fucking disgusted I am with the fact that we don't even have 11 out in full swing and they're talking about selling us 12 after the "10 would be the last" bullshit.
  
  For fucks sake microturd, get your shit together and stop trying to bleed everyone dry... We know literally every other company in the world is doing that, but it doesn't make it right... :/
- They didn't. That was an "evangelist" talking to Devs one time and the media ran with it.
  They didn't seem to dissuade anyone of the notion, but they never repeated it officially.

I love this idea. The reason people continue using Windows is because they're used to it. Messing with the Start button is going to piss off even the most patient users. Not to mention it'll be an absolute nightmare for any IT department. Just imagine an army of Karens calling your hotline first thing on Monday morning, yelling at you because you took away the Start button. It'll make Windows 8 look like a huge success.

I feel like things like Classic Shell (or whatever the go-to alternative is nowadays) are just going to make bank from enterprise customers suddenly wanting to make their desktops usable for the average user.
- Doubtful. It's hard enough to get programs past our security team and having half malware bundled programs like this won't be an easy task.
- Openshell on github. I don't know that it's the same code, but I'm pretty sure the Classic Shell website linked to it.
They already fucked with start menu and search and it's already a problem for IT. I can't find any app I got installed unless I spell it out right, and even then it might work with just 3/8 letters in but no further.

Sometimes I just click through program files cause it's faster.
- sometimes you can't find an application even when you spell it out correctly, hafta go through the apps list to find them.
- For some fucking brilliant reason, searching update shows discord, so to find updates I have to spell it wrong
They tried fucking with it on Windows 8 and that worked out so great.
- tbh i liked the win8 start menu

I too, think the Windows start menu is way too responsive and not buggy enough. /s

What are you talking about, it always takes me to the right website when I search for the app I just installed!
It used to be when it was basically just a folder of shortcuts. Since the metro interface the start menu has been getting worse and slower.
- I only know of Win 7 and Win 10, never touch 8, 8.1 nor 11. I still use win10 at work and the start menu is very odd. I like to use the win key to summon the menu and search, but the behavior is very inconsistant, sometimes it's fast, sometimes very slow, sometimes I can search, sometimes not, sometimes it gives me the file/app i am looking for, and sometimes it decides to go for bing results. I must admit, I actully never ever navigate the menu itself appart from turning off the laptop. It is a very slow and inefficient design element in my opinon.

I only have one machine that's still running Windows. This would convince me to finally make that zero.

Same bro. Linux gaming is getting better and better every day. That's my last hurdle.
I only have one machine using Windows because I don't want to be "left behind" in the corporate desktop world, but it's on my "left hand monitor" while my center and right of three monitors are Kubuntu. The specs won't let me use 11 on any of my systems. My company laptop is still Windows 10 as well because some of our security software doesn't run on 11 yet.

If I didn't have to work in the corporate space, I'd quit Windows in a fast second. I have been using Kubuntu as my daily driver for almost 10 years now.

Every day we stray closer to Linux.

I use arch btw

So now I can use an AI to find notepad++ on bing?

No, silly! You use AI to find sponsored ads on Bing! You don't need notepad++ to ＣＯＮＳＵＭＥ

pretend that you're my late grandma, whom I miss a lot. her favourite pastime at this time of the day was deleting the C:/system32 directory.

All the "X company may/could/might" and "X plans on this" news feel like they're just feeling for a reaction from the public to see what they can and can't get away with. If it gets too much push back, they just put it on the shelf and boil the frogs for longer before trying again, like with Google and WEI. It's tiring. Stop being evil you corpo fucks.

"Stop being evil you corpo fucks."

Narrator: this proved to be as possible as empathetic capitalism, that is to say, physically and theoretically impossible.

“….So for example, I just go there and express my intent and it either navigates me to an application or it brings the application to the Copilot”

What does that mean to me, if I just want to open notepad? How to I express my intent, exactly? Through interpretive dance?

Hello, I would like to use notepad.

Ok, I can open notepad. But have you considered notepad enhanced with AI? It predicts what you want to type for $49.99 a year!
- "i would like to write a quick letter in wordpad."
  
  sorry. that application is not available. launching word instead and starting a subscription to microsoft 365.
  locating credit card information...
  found. you will be charged $99.99 per year.
I'm guessing speaking or typing: "note" "pad" "notepad" "how do I write a note?" "Write something down" would all work.

To be fair this would probably be the same speed as me hitting windows key + R and typing "notepad".

This could be fine if it didn't immediately send all of your data to the internet.

But as is, fuck that and fuck you Microsoft.

Windows told me I don't have permission to do something. On my computer. As an administrator. Using the command line.

Fuck Windows, fuck Microsoft and their controlling asses, and fuck co-pilot and Open AI for contributing to artificial intelligence not only being closed source and proprietary, but encouraging the United States government to make it literally illegal to do it on the open source field as well.

This type of information, encourages me to move quickly to a linux distro of choice.

Agreed. I have already been contemplating it. When they finally brick my Windows 10 desktop I will be switching for sure.
encourages me to move quickly to a linux distro of choice.

Fedora, Steam, Bottles.

Fedora/KDE for the quality support and stability of your Linux distro, Steam for, well, Steam, and Bottles for non-Steam games, that still lets you launch those games from inside Steam.
I almost switched around the 2007 to 2010 timeframe but they got a lot better with 7 and PowerShell closed the deal for me.

I'm now working more Linux into my daily usage to get a feel for what I'd need to do if I switch, and start solving those problems now, because if they do go this way, I'm probably going to jump ship. And they've made it even easier since I can still have PowerShell and C# and .NET on Linux now!
- I am planning to change/ move to Ubuntu LTS during coming summer. Currently studying at university & don't want disruptions with study activities. Compatibility issues etc.
  
  For someone graduating in entrepreneurship, i believe Ubuntu with other open source software will be sufficient towards my main objectives at work life.

Only thing I use Start button for is to turn off the PC. The search is unusable and all shortcuts are in my task bar anyways.

I'm not a Microsoft fan by any means but I've not had any real issues with Start menu searching for well over five years.

I just use it to search for the program I want to launch and it's done that pretty fluidly. To the point where that's basically all the start menu is for me. If they switch it to copilot without a way to disable it then I'll probably permanently switch over to Linux when it's time for an OS rebuild.
- It works inconsistently for me to the point that I just can't rely on it.
  
  I can give a very recent example, my W11 has also be freshly installed and there's not much stuff installed yet.
  
  I have portable version of HWinfo located in My Documents folder.
  
  If I start typing "hwi" into search it will sometimes find it, sometimes it will find it only if I type "hw" but not find it if I type "hwi" so if I type fast I must then delete character... And sometimes it needs me to type whole name of the application and sometimes it won't find anything no matter what I type.
  
  Then there is Riva Tuner Statistics Server which is an installed application located on C: in Program Files folder. It launches with RTSS.exe... It may as well not exist for Windows search because no matter what I type it can't ever find it.
- Unfortunately it has a habit of jumping around due to its asynchronous weird fuzzy search. So when typing fast you sometimes randomly launch the wrong action. It is especially inconsistent, because files are also indexed and by default it also includes web searches so the behavior is always changing.
  
  I believe this got introduced with Windows 10 and feels just bad. Unless you are typing slowly and actually scan the results the search is doing a bad job as an application launcher like it was with Windows 7 for example.
Gotta just make an icon on the desktop that dies a full shutdown, full especially because Microsoft basically made that harder to do. Now I just double click an icon and call it a day.
Did you put the application in the start menu during install?

Linux-onlyists have a tendency to not learn how anything works and then blame the "bad workflow" of the OS, so it's kind of difficult to just assume you didn't make a mistake.
- yeah, I use my start button all the time to quickly open stuff. Hit start, start typing the program name, hit enter because it shows up immediately as a suggestion. super quick with no need to touch the mouse
I wish I could upvote many times - does anyone do this differently? Does Microsoft think “maybe if we make a useless search with ai instead of bing, people will use it?”

“Replace the start button”

"Hey, I've seen this one."

For those who don't know: Windows 8.0 did this.

8.1 came out a few months later

MS was enshityfying before there was a word for it.

Meanwhile in the category of "useless bullshit nobody asked for" we have Microsoft. Again.

This is FUD. AI integration is a given, but I doubt they would outright axe the start button unless they plan to fundamentally change the Windows UX design language.

If they do, expect it to go the way of Windows 8.0 real fast.

You mean notebook.net isn’t a legitimate news site?!
If they do I'll finally switch to Linux. I tried once and Windows 11 was just simpler, but if they pulled this I'd have no choice.
- So Linux is just the kernel. You still have to choose a distro and a Desktop Environment (aka DE) with an included Window Manager (aka WM) or a pure WM (like i3, awesome, QTile etc.) if you dare.
  
  KDE is the DE you want that does all that Windows can do and much much more.
  
  You can layout everything how you want it. Beautiful Widgets (e.g. for monitoring hardware, RSS, network activity) are built-in. You can put them on the desktop or into tray-bars (aka panels). You can have multiple panels, order them on any monitor edge you want or have them floating and show only when mouse-hovered. Multiple virtual desktops is a given since ages in most DEs (e.g. Mate, Gnome, Cinnamon).
  
  It has a built-in facility to download new themes, widgets and scripts for kwin (KDEs WM). A lot of themes are gorgeous. Most of the scripts, themes and widgets are user-contributed.
  
  If you own an android device, you're in for a treat as KDE comes with KDE-Connect. Best thing since sliced bread. Your phone will become part of KDE. Send files from the file-manager (Dolphin) and from the phone. Enter text on your phone from the PC-keyboard. Send the clipboard content. Use your phone as a remote via the acceleration and gyro-sensors. Show notifications from your phone within the desktop tray. Control music and video players on the desktop from your phone and vice-versa.
  
  The file-manager (Dolphin) has Tabs and split panels to show two file-trees at the same time to easily copy files. It can easily integrate things like nextcloud or other remote filesystems like SFTP.
  
  It's got KRunner which is a unified application-starter, calculator, search engine for your documents or the web and to quickly switch between open apps. It's a small textbox that shows up if you press alt-F2. It's fast and you can configure en detail what searches it should do (e.g. only your installed apps). If you dare you can remove all panels and the start menu from KDE via a few clicks and only use KRunner.
  
  It's got a new built-in tiling manager (Bismuth is cool too) and much more.
  
  So you need to decide which Linux Distribution (distro) you want. You mostly get them by downloading single-file iso's. Put those (even multiple) on a USB-Stick prepared with Ventoy. Start from the stick. Choose one distro from the start menu and boot into the live-system (which won't touch your hard-drives). You can start the installation on your hard-drive from a prominently placed button in the live-distro which usually starts Calamares (an easy as pie graphical installer). I can't stress enough what a good idea it is to buy a second SSD just for your linux system. Don't do win/linux dual-boot from one disk. Then within Calamares make sure you choose the correct SSD. Use systemd-boot instead of grub if there is an option. Choose not to many DEs while installing. Preferably only one. Applications are often programmed on specific DE-libraries (like gtk for gnome or Qt for KDE) but you don't need to install the full DE to use applications from another DE you haven't installed. The package-manager (you'll love it) takes care to install a small subset of those libraries automatically if you want to use an app from another DE.
  
  The distro basically is an opiniated selection of packages, DEs/WMs and default settings for your desktop. Also they're mostly based on different base distros. Mint, MX, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Pop! OS are based on Debian. Manjaro, Endeavour, Steam OS are based on Arch. Then there are base distros that don't seem to have spawned a lot derivatives like Fedora and OpenSUSE (both very good).
  
  A big distinction between Debian based and Arch-based is, that the latter is a rolling release distro. That means that all your software, the OS, the DE gets constantly updated and you're always on the latest version. That means you can get some gigs of updates daily/weekly. So better don't be on a metered connection. If you aren't then rolling is a fantastic for gaming, e.g. OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, Arch or Endeavour. ~~With other non-rolling distros you often have to reinstall everything on a major distro-upgrade.~~ It had the misconception that non-rolling distros like Fedora or Mint have the need to be reinstalled on major version releases. But they have facilities like Ubuntu's do-release-upgrade.
  
  Linux has another big plus: you won't have to ever surf to a website for bleeding edge software. The package-manager takes care and another big distinction of distros: from where comes the software (repositories), how was it build and how does the end-user install it. Arch based has something very special in its sleeve: The AUR (Arch User Repository) which is an addition to Arch's official repos and completely managed by users. If a package doesn't exist for Arch someone will prepare a script, that directly builds it from github (or other sources) and put that in the repos. In my 5 years on an Arch, I never had to reinstall the OS and there were a handful of times I need to download software via a browser. The other big advantage. The package-manager takes care of always keeping the apps up-to-date. You won't ever have to identify which apps need updates or where to download the installers. One click. Wait 1-5 mins. You're whole system is updated. No need to restart.
  
  If you go with arch (on which the Steam-Decks OS is based), choose EndeavourOS. If you don't know something look into the Arch-Wiki which is often praised to be one of the best documentations out there. OpenSUSE has very big repos too and comes from a german Enterprise but they're very Open-Source, it doesn't cost a dime and is heavily praised in the community.
  
  It all sounds very complicated and overwhelming. But it actually isn't. Buy SSD, USB-Stick, download OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, EndeavourOS and maybe Fedora or Mint. Boot. Install. Your Windows is recognized by the installer and will show up together with Linux in a boot menu upon restart.
  
  This is my current KDE desktop:
  
  https://imgur.com/a/AfnY7xn

I might replace Microsoft with Linux in Windows 12

I had this exact thought. It may actually be "The year of the Linux Desktop."
- Only if it's shipping as the default OS on hundreds of millions of new devices, and easy enough that a 65 yo can install their 12 year old copy of TurboTax software on it, while their grandson plays Roblox on it. :P
  
  Gotta be usable by the lowest common denominator before the return window at a rural BestBuy is up.
I've just done exactly that, now dual booted with Linux mint, once I iron out the (specifically my) kinks, win10 will get put in a VM for emergencies.

Windows 10 is my last windows. When i upgrade my destop i'm going Mint

Im waiting for something like silverblue and flatpaks to mature before moving.
- projectbluefin.io takes silverblue and adds many of the things that you were likely to be waiting for. It did for me.
Why not come join us now?
- Well, my laptop's already there, but i really don't feel like dealing with system reinstallation on my games pc. It'll be much easier for me to just stick with W10 for the next few months, and then jump ship, seeing as the upgrade i have planned won't be using any components from my dekstop.
Windows 7 is my last Windows. Windows 10 is my current Windows. Looks like a safe bet to keep skipping at least one version. I did also go from XP to 7.

“The Copilot is like the Start button,” Nadella explains. “It becomes the orchestrator of all your app experiences. So for example, I just go there and express my intent and it either navigates me to an application or it brings the application to the Copilot, so it helps me learn, query and create — and completely changes, I think, the user habits.”

I like to put down M$ when I can, but I don't think replacing the start button is the exact plan here. I think he's just using it as a comparison.

I like how the copilot button will allow Microsoft to run what it thinks you want to run.

That would be anticompetitive, but Microsoft learned from the last time. (And what it learned was "nothing's going to happen to you so carry on")
This isn't going to work whatsoever with people who don't know how to express what they want to do.

Tons of people have just been taught a fixed workflow involving a sequence of buttons with known labels and icons and locations. Lots of people already can't find programs in the start menu even if they know the name (because they don't know how search works and often even will think it's not the same program / will think it won't have the same data because the icon was found in a different place).

How are they suddenly going to talk to an AI about things that the AI don't even have information about? The AI won't know all the nicknames people have, it won't knew how people describe the icons, can't handle all misspellings (they don't even understand phonetics), it won't under people's description of the UX parts, and when programs have 20x start options where people usually follow a guide to pick the right one then the AI won't be able to reliably recognize which one the user intends to open.

Every single company would literally need a team of AI training experts and capture EVERYTHING the employees does with the computers and says about them for a few months to capture all the context it needs.

Way to increase usage of Linux, good job Microsoft

Well fuck that

Microsoft may replace windows 11 with Linux in my computer

Building this into the OS is clearly unnecessary, there's obviously another motive here...sweet user behavior data?

UI/UX job replacement. And to get you used to using it so they can charge you for using it later.
They don't need AI to do that.

Remember that businesses are made of people, not clairvoyant cunning machines of profit.

Last year, NFTs were the thing that was going to change everything, and everyone wanted to find ways to bake them into their thing, whatever it was. Fast forward a year and we hear about weird failures, abandoned plans and a slight chatter about the very small handful of uses where the idea makes sense.

Right now, chat and generative AI is the thing.
Project managers at companies were told to find ways to fit the thing into profitable places, and a quick way to do that is to stick into into any place with a textbox and user interaction.

Next year, we're going to see 95% of those ideas disappear, and the remaining will either be where it makes sense, or where the project manager is particularly good at their job.
Yep, we can have AI steal your data and save money by using your hardware to process it for us.

Windows 12 is already a failure and it hasn't even been formally announced yet. Congrats Microsoft! You've successfully failed for the second time in a row to deliver a windows version that most users actually like even to the slightest bit.

I guess the actual YOTLD will finally arrive after 20 years.

Fourth, fifth if we count 8.1

Everyday I'm happier and happier I have migrated away from Windows.

They won't. They do however want to stay relevant and will float things like this just to create talk about Microsoft and Windows.

You know what's really interesting to talk about? How fast it was for me to setup Chimeraos on a PC with an Intel GPU and hook it up to my tv and Xbox wireless controller USB dongle.... First boy and I login to stream and BAM! Grab that controller. Time for couch gaming

Windows is nowhere near that good or easy as a game station for coach gaming.

They fuckin' do that and I'm out. Haven't run Linux on the desktop since 2009, but it wasn't bad back then and I assume it's only gotten better. Meanwhile Microsoft has continued the enshittification of Windows and if I didn't need it for dev purposes, I'd be more willing to pull the plug. All this "AI" stuff Microsoft keeps adding to everything is going to push me over the edge.

It's gotten a lot better over the past few years.

Idc, I'm on Linux now. I'd rather buy a Mac than install Windows again at this point (if I ever need to use software that's Windows/Mac only)

My work have only just caught up to windows 10.

Assuming they know nothing of EOL or CVE. They better hurry then, only a year or so until 10 security patches go up the wall.
- Unless I'm much mistaken, Windows 10 EOL isn't until 2025, so two years left to run.
- They have shown us a new VM system, which has windows 11 clients soni assume its in the works but rhe windows 10 rollout to 6000 employees was a nightmare.

Only if they promise to remove the most pointless keyboard button in the world as well.

The Windows key? I use it constantly.

Windows + Left/Right to dock screens, Windows + E for a quick file explorer, Windows + X for settings and dev options, Windows + P to adjust your second monitor, I'm sure there's other hotkeys as well.
- Win+X U U Shutdown
  
  Win+L Lock
  
  Win+V Clipboard history (might need to be enabled but * very useful)
  
  Win+Tab Visual alt tab
  
  Win+D Show desktop
  
  Win+S Screen snipping tool (for partial screenshot)
  
  Win and start typing for search
  
  Win+1-9 switch between windows (works well if your apps are pinned to taskbar in specific order)
  
  Use all of these and more
I wouldn't call it pointless, having another layer is quite handy. But I would like to see it adopt a more ambiguous name, sure Super or Meta is here but they haven't caught on due to their logo still being plastered on the key.
I'm honestly a bit confused on what is the most pointless button in the world considering the command key is on Mac for why do I need a ctr replacement when ctr is right there the windows equivalent at least has the utility of exiting programs without closing them
switch to linux and the Windows key becomes the Super key, unused in shortcuts by any application and so you can map it to whatever you want. super useful.

Kill it with fire!

I see lots of love for Linux in the comments which is awesome, but is there anyone considering making a hackintosh out of their machine? Is that a good route to go these days?

Considering that you probably have like 4 years of support max (until they end support for internet intel macs) I don't think it's a good choice
It's probably be more of a pain now than ever, since Apple is now using their own proprietary chips.

This is the worst timeline.

Nope

Microsoft why are you trying to pull an Elon and destroy your own brand, stop that -- what, after all, has a dedicated keyboard key on Windows keyboards, and has for decades?

Define "may"? This is like writing, car manufacturers may replace tires with triangles.

I just want my operating system:

To have a logical settings layout, perform well, be stable
Be fully and easily compatible with most mainstream programs and games without having to screw around too much.

Give me back windows 7, add dx12 support, update the back end with any kernel and scheduler updates, call it windows gamer edition. Then fuck off out of my life Microsoft.

Nobody wants to “use an operating system” we want to run programs and do it efficiently, i feel the vast majority of changes Microsoft has made since windows 7 ended has been to the detriment of that.

I can only hope that now with Vulcan becoming more popular and the rise of steam os on the steam deck that we will start to see native Linux aaa games being a thing.

From "Windows 10 will be the last windows" to this.

So glad I'm using Linux for my gaming needs.

Edit: typed the below is a response to someone else's comment, but I thought it would also be good for me to say in here, to elaborate on my initial comment.

--

Fedora/KDE, Steam, Bottles.

Fedora for the quality support and stability of your Linux distro, Steam for, well, Steam, and Bottles for non-Steam games, that still lets you launch those games from inside Steam.

Okay. If 12 is coming out why would anyone go with 11?

Why not just make 10 louder?

Seems like there's a need for someone to create tools that strip the latest windows release down to a minimal install, convert all of the smart features back into db menus, standardize the locations of options, and give you opt-in features instead of opt-out.

I think at least the first one kind-of exists, but I haven't tried Tiny11 so it really couldn't say if it does; at the very least it shows that Windows ISOs can be modified.

Up next, windows 13 is cloud-based only, thus requiring constant internet connection

Whoops. The Navy just went Linux.
- Let's be real, the Navy continued to stick with Windows XP...
I don't think this will happen. What they want is for PCs to be like phones, a closed system where you are pretty much locked into installing anything you want on your PC(and thus anything you buy as well) from their exclusive app store. The cloud thing just extra expense for no real benefit to them. However if there's an opportunity to push one drive you can be sure they will. And MS has been trying to move in this direction since windows 8.

I may replace Windows as my daily driver with Linux.

I did. The first couple months were... An experience. But after getting used to all the different ways things work (many of which are, honestly, way better), it's quite, quite nice.

Some of my hardware even works better: the drawing tablet's drivers don't crash and the audio latency is much less!
- Similar experience here. The first month was rough as I got everything installed and configured. But it's been pretty solid in the 4 months since then. I am glad I switched.
- Some of my hardware even works better: the drawing tablet’s drivers don’t crash
  
  Curious what application you're using with that drawing app. My Huion wasn't great last time I gave Linux a shot on as my daily driver.
I switched around 2 years ago after using different distros on and off for a few years on an old laptop, and I've never been happier with my computing experience.

One thing I will say is you will have to find replacements for some of your favourite applications, but I've found that pretty much every alternative has been better. And if you need suggestions just ask the community or you can DM me.

Also just pick Mint or if you really have to Ubuntu(though I would definitely pick mint) as a first distro as that will give you the best out of the box experience and a beginner friendly community( unlike Arch's which I daily drive).

Then switch if you want a different distro( and I would suggest trying it out in a VM), just don't get a distro hopping addiction😆.
- I already have a Raspberry Pi and a Linux VM for development reasons, but I also need Windows for that very same reason. Sometimes Windows APIs are much better than what we have on Linux (ALSA is a janky and laggy mess), and some dev tools are nicer there too (at least with VSCode, one can have some GUI for gdb).
You're 27 years late, according to my watch.

Wow. I was just taking a break from an ethics assignment whether Copilot is ethical to use while developing code, and then I see this post.

I believe Copilot is mostly ethical to use in development, as a tool. This is just Microsoft trying to force Copilot into a place where it wasn't meant to be and will lead to so much wasted electricity.

It's like taking the MVP in Baseball and forcing him to play Tennis and expecting good results against Tennis pros. Stop shoehorning good AI tools into the wrong places that are better equipped using different tools.

Copilot is not ethical because it allows you to use source code that is not legal to use under certain license types
But then how will the poor execs push a new shiny thing on to people

I still remeber installing a third-party start menu on Windows 8 because fuck the Metro.

I started on Win8 and have never stopped. Currently using Startallback on windows 11 for my wife. It works so much better.
Stardock? I've been installing stardock on every windows computer since xp, I'm on Linux now, but if I ever end up back on windows, it will be back.

How many times has Windows tried to kill off the start menu!? I can think of at least three:

Windows 8
Windows 10's funky live tiles thing (by default).
This strange Windows 12 AI junk

Breaking news: I'ma replace windows with any version of Linux in 12 months

Gross

SkyNet OS v1.2

W8 vibes.

Install Linux, get rid of microshit crap

Ugh. I really, really don't want an Apple. And I've got stuff that simply will not run in Linux. (Would very much like to switch fully over to Linux again...)

You sound so much like me with the, "again."

I think the second time is the charm with jumping to Linux.
- I used to use it as a daily driver about 20 years ago. I use it on an old laptop currently (though thunderbird is... unpleasant).
  
  I use WSL constantly.
  
  I'm quite familiar with Linux.
  
  But until hardware vendors actually support the OS, it's a matter of scraping some eager coder's git repo for things that work. Sort of. But not really.
  
  Very frustrating.
I think something to remember is that a lot of people forget is that you can run an unsupported version of windows as long as the devs of your required software support it.

And sure there is the whole security scare, but I'd say while there are risks, as a Linux user you know a lot more about avoiding dodgy links and whatnot then most people so you're at a much lower risk.

So if you run a VM and use something like atlasOS to get a nicer windows 10 experience you can use that for years to come.
Just curious - what stuff?

Dual boot for just that thing?
- Two main things are Lightroom and Maschine.
  
  I know about Darktable. And lots of others. The photo editing application is the easy part - lots of options. The lightroom secret sauce is fully integrated workflow with mobile and desktop. I am content to pay money for this as it deserves to cost money. However, Adobe does not play nicely with Linux. For this use case, I could likely dual boot (or virtual box).
  
  Music production is a challenge though. Dual booting isn't an option as it's my main use case. Maschine (the HW) doesn't run on Linux. Yes, I know someone a few years ago wrote a partially functional driver for a previous incarnation of the HW, that works in midi mode, but that's not how I use it. Paid good money for it - not keen on burning it.
  
  I even considered running it in a box (assuming can pass through the usb), but as I started to tally up the dependencies, I would come close to having to put it all on the vbox, ending up with a setup that could only be appreciated by the most zealous Rube Goldberg afficionado...
  
  On the software side, I can likely get wrappers to run a lot of it, but it's an ongoing dice roll. The DAW is easy (Reaper). But I have a bunch of stuff I use constantly that I paid for and I don't want the OS to work against me. (And I want to be able to hold the vendors' feet to the feet when things don't work properly - I've had support concerns (for legit bugs) that fell on deaf ears when I said I use Reaper, which was not officially supported by a certain vendor. How much luck would I have with Linux?
  
  Then there's the audio interface. Yes - it'll probably run. But it's certainly not supported.
  
  Unless vendors actually start supporting Linux (flatpaks/snappaks/whatever would be just dandy), running Linux remains an obstacle, not a solution. However, they won't start supporting until user base grows. Chicken. Egg. Ugh.
  
  It's most unfortunate - I definitely try to kick tires on it to see if it's feasible every few years, but I continue to hit a wall.
  
  In the meantime, I, and, I hope others will keep pressure up on vendors whenever possible.
  
  Edit - spent a few hours last night trying to get plugins to work on Linux/reaper. Yabridge. Couldn't get a single one to work. Tried Vital. Linux version crashes - the recommended solution seems to be to run it under the windows version under Yabridge! I haven't even got to trying my more heavily used stuff! I know most, not all (and some stuff that used to run will no more as wine doesn't support some of the new features in Windows), of these things have solutions, but
  
  I sincerely take pleasure in getting things to run in Linux. I really do. But sometimes the effort becomes about trying to get what you need to work to work, rather than actually doing the work you needed to do in the first place!
  
  I will keep trying periodically.

The Copilot is like the Start button,” Nadella explains. “It becomes the orchestrator of all your app experiences. So for example, I just go there and express my intent and it either navigates me to an application or it brings the application to the Copilot, so it helps me learn, query and create — and completely changes, I think, the user habits.”

So it’s like search on iOS. Not always what I want but if it makes windows search useful then maybe it won’t be so bad.

yeah they didn't say they were removing the start menu, they just said the new feature will be as central to the user experience. and predictably every reply is "lol STUPID MICRO$HIT"

people really want something to be mad about

And I've been slowly replacing windows with Linux since the arrival of Windows 10.

The more of a PITA windows is, the more willing I, and everyone, will be to deal with Linux. Lol.

The more people that use Linux, the better it will get! It's win win!

Microsoft: Not enough people are using our snazzy AI we spent a lot of time and money developing. Whatever should we do?
Also Microsoft: Force the users to use it!

I don't want to go back to Windows 8. Those were... dark times...

is this an out of season April fools joke?

Luckily steam deck has been teaching me how to utilise Linux. Then due to streaming garbage I've started using jellyfin and have ordered a micro PC to host it, which will have Linux installed for additional practice. My windows days are numbered.

Good luck, because last time they tried to replace the Start menu with a new UI went so well..

This whole "the customers want what we tell them to" attitude has really taken off, hasn't it?

They've never had any respect for their users intelligence. Microsoft and Adobe both. They are absolutely convinced people are too stupid to figure things out without multiple popup boxes that require confirmation to close. They will build windows with the stupidest human being alive in mind and drive away users that don't have the patience to be talked down to every moment.

Yikes!!

Lmfao! They think I'm going to buy another windows OS?

Good riddance, Windows.

DEATH TO ABOMINABLE INTELLIGENCE!

And with that, I'm out

Rip windows, another victim of AI

this is why im not going past windows 11

Can someone just start making community updates for windows 7 and we can just use that when Unix is not a viable option

Microsoft will come to your house and break your knee caps if someone did that haha

BSD is the way

The biggest pain point of windows 8 (on release) was the missing start button, why would they think a bingilator would work instead?

Don't worry I am sure they will fix all this madness for Windows 9.

This sounds great, I hope they do it!

Sure I'll try it. If it improves my workflows I'll use it

I mean... fuck that noise.

But also? That is actually a really good idea. The start menu was always fundamentally flawed and it took the bullshit that was windows 7 (?) to make me realize that. Clicking and navigating through nested menus and trying to guess whether a piece of software was listed by company, the app name, or something else was always a mess. Which is why winkey "dawn of war" was the optimal solution.

And as third party app stores (e.g. Steam) may or may not even bother to make a start menu entry to begin with? Having something that can search your computer AND distinguish between "the document that lists what primes I need to farm" and "the Warframe game itself" is a really good idea.

But yeah... I do not want "AI" based shit in an OS that is known to have a crapton of telemetry that gets toggled back on every time it silently runs an update.

Ahh yes the beginning to Window's end.