Titan sub: crew have died after catastrophic loss of pressure chamber, US Coast Guard confirms
Search team spokesman says families were informed immediately
i'm just glad this whole thing is over. what a sick world we live in where five billionaires in a submarine sparks wall to wall coverage and five hundred migrants lost at sea gets barely a passing mention
I think it's more how uncommon the situation is, the complexity and odds of the rescue, and the 'ticking clock' effect that came from them only having 96 hours of oxygen. Stories need to be interesting to get mass media coverage (look at the Tham Luang cave rescue - none of them were billionares), and, as incredibly bleak as this sentence sounds, a boat capsizing with hundreds onboard just isn't interesting enough.
Yea it's totally not that every major news outlet is owned by and serves the interests of the rich.
There's also a sort of morbid fascination and curiosity that comes from a situation this unique. I definitely agree that of course the sinking refugee ship should have gotten far more help and attention, but I think the "morbid curiosity" element is certainly part of why this got so much attention. The whole situation of paying a fortune for visiting the Titanic in a janky unregulated submersible and then vanishing underwater is...bizarre, and surreal, in a way that captures attention
Agree, I don't think much of the coverage at all had to do with "Oh no, look at the poor rich people in trouble!" And had a lot more to do with the potential for a Hollywood style life-saving mission.
Not to say that that idea itself isn't saddening
Interesting enough to get a gaggle of billionaires in a bolted metal box and explore the capsized boat. 🤨
In my country, they started the newscast 2h earlier than usual just to say "Debris were found; may be unrelated". I think they initially went live earlier because the conference was meant to happen earlier and they couldn't wait to show it; it had to be live. When it got postponed, they spent 2h just talking about it with commentators and different specialists; all just theorizing what could have happened, and whether there might still be a chance for rescue or not, and repeating that there would be a conference "so stay tuned!".
But refugees you barely hear about.
I get this story has some more "thrill" and novelty to it, being a submarine near the titanic and all, but this really is ridiculous.
The more prosaic explanation -- bordering on "banality of evil," but still -- is that a story about a rickety overloaded fishing boat full of desperate war refugees sinking in the Mediterranean has become a fairly common occurrence in the years since the Arab Spring turned into a decade of civil wars, but whiz-bang private subs going missing while diving on the most famous shipwreck of all time is unusual. Horses vs. zebras and all that.
Definitely shows where the media's priorities lie, ie the wealthy lamenting the loss of their own
4 billionaires and one guys 19 year old kid.
Were all of them billionaires? I can't imagine the people actually operating the thing were, surely, just the passengers?
I find it incredibly sad that the teen, Sulemon Dawood, only agreed to go on the trip to appease his father. Left on his own, the teen was not interested in going. And although I’m saddened to hear all five perished, the four older adults made their own independent decisions to take the risk. I feel an extra sense of sadness for the teen though who was influenced by his father into going.
I ought to concede I have plenty of disappointment around this. I feel like there were well established means to do this kind of thing safely, and I think because Seagate failed to meet that, five lives were needlessly lost. I wouldn't be surprised if this story lives on for a while as a sort of fable in hubris. That's not even getting to, say, the sense of injustice invoked in comparing how this was handled to the recent shipwreck in the Mediterranean. I think all of those thoughts distill down to the Eat The Rich flavored fan faire, and I think there's already plenty of that here.
Still, the Rich and Foolish nature of this trip all said, I find it commendable that the likes of the US Coast Guard, the Navy, and international groups came together and put up a sizeable and respectable search and rescue effort. I think it would've been well in their right (and in fact realistic) for them to wave it off and say something like "they made the wine, they drink the cup." But they didn't. I can respect that the collective weight of the wallets on board likely played a big part in it to say the least, but I'd also wager that it also takes a mighty large amount of forgiveness in people being foolish to go through that kind of effort to try and save them. Similar can probably be said for rescue missions helping out others in equally foolish incidents.
There's a lot directly and indirectly connected to this disaster that doesn't reflect well on the bulk of society, but the effort to try and help others even if they don't necessarily deserve it? I'll admit it feels naive to say, but I'd rather live in that kind of society than one that errs toward extending a callous hand. I hope we'll hear more often about us extending a hand to those who indeed deserve it, like those in the Mediterranean, but I'm also in the camp of continuing to extend that kind of forgiveness to The Foolish we'll continue to stumble upon. I hope to have the will to do that, at least.
We're all going to be foolish from time to time in life, and I sure know I'd sincerely appreciate a kind hand when it's my turn.
We're all going to be foolish from time to time in life, and I sure know I'd sincerely appreciate a kind hand when it's my turn.
It depends on your net worth. I see Americans wish death on homeless people for lowering property values and insisting they did it to themselves. I see Americans telling student loan debtors who committed the crime of buying the lie and improving themselves being laughed at for their struggles.
Meanwhile a wealthy person can go to a fancy rehab for years of acting like a belligerent, intoxicated asshole, be called brave for it, and have their job with massive salary waiting for them after it all.
Second chances (and third, and fourth...) are for capital holders. Poor people half to walk a tightrope from birth and be both lucky and perfect to improve their station, with plenty of people ready to scold them for trying the moment they fall.
I’d say you’re right about all you said. It’s a shame and a bad look on our society that’s how it works out more often than not. I’d like to try and do my small part to leave things a bit better than how I found them, whether that’s in cultural values or in political action. But as you alluded to about the United States: that is much easier said than done.
You sound like you have a vital and focused framing to what I said, and admittedly more relevant to, well, This. I’m inclined to extend the sum of my takeaway to a broader scope, however. To try and extend generosity when we are in the circumstances to do so, in both large and small incidents and in large and small ways. It’s the kind of reminder that personally comes to mind whenever I hear about these kinds of rescue efforts.
It’s also admittedly getting outside of what this incident was and starting to get into more trivial manners, but I seem to get inclined to try and find something positive and/or productive to get from tragedy. Lamenting about the likes of capitalism and the US has definitely been a crucible that helped shaped my perspective for the better, but as crucibles go, it drains and exhausts me.
All that said, I can’t deny what you said. It’s the state of affairs, and it’s a sorry one. Let’s see what we can do within our means to help change that 🤝.
Bravo
The more I have read about this, the more disgusted I am. This company generally, and the CEO personally, took all sorts of shortcuts to build this thing.
The CEO stated that he didn't want to have any ex military submarine experts as part of the team, because they were "uninspiring" and "50 year old white guys", and he'd rather have young college grads who are inspiring. The real reason: the college grads were simply cheaper. He didn't want to pay the ex military experts. That's it.
The CEO lied to CBS news in their CBS Sunday morning report and told them that Boeing and University of Washington consulted with them on the design of the submersible. Both organizations told the NY Post today that they had no involvement with it. So that was a fucking lie. All he did was use the UW lab after hours.
The use of a Logitech PS3 style controller to navigate the vehicle...what the actual fuck.
Because this was a submersible in international waters, there are virtually no regulations. That needs to change. If the UN needs to draft a treaty for countries to ratify to regulate these things in international waters, then that's what needs to happen.
I don’t see the issue in using a controller, the US Navy does the same
https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/18/17136808/us-navy-uss-colorado-xbox-controller
I do think it’s ironic that they used a Logitech controller instead of an Xbox controller, but the reasoning is probably similar to the US Navy’s
Using a controller is fine, but I'm sure they are hardwired. There is a Today show interview where the CEO specifically said they use them over bluetooth.
Absolutely all shit made up in my brain from my hatred of bluetooth. I could definitely see the controller dying because they forgot to charge it, tried to connect the spare but bluetooth being bluetooth wouldn't. Then they drift into the Titantic, get a puncture and implode.
The big difference I see is what it's controlling. Sure, the Navy used Xbox controllers for intuitive use of the periscope. I bet if you asked them "please make all ship attitude controls, and therefore crew safety, reliant on this," they would laugh at you and walk away.
I have to admit that a game controller, at least the ergonomics and controls of one, likely makes more sense than it would seem at first blush.
I think it’s more a problem with circumstances and optics. If all was well and this whole fiasco didn’t happen, I could see it being framed as a sort of goofy trivia piece, just like the US Navy’s use. But when things go wrong as they did here, it feels like the kind of bit that’s incredibly easy to reach and dunk on.
I’m not inclined to hinge my disappointment on the game controller, but I can’t blame anyone for doing that, either.
I've done some mountaineering. The people going down would have known the risks and accepted them for an opportunity for a once in a lifetime opportunity to go to the titanic.
Whilst in retrospect, things like this seem like a stupid risk, sometimes, you become so focused on wanting to do something that you take them.
Personally, the idea of being stuck in a tin can with thousands of pounds of pressure surrounding me with absolutely no redundancy/backup though isn't my kind of thing (same reason I take a rescue beacon when hiking, i always want some kind of backup. Even on Everest, they have some backup). But, too each their own.
Sometimes in life, you need to take a risk.. Also, I'd be more worried if they were using Switch Joycons
I’m inclined to characterize this loss as reckless and needless, but I find myself agreeing with likewise here. Some opportunities are the once-or-so in a lifetime sort. There’s likely such opportunities out there that I’d love to take if I had the means, even if the risks were great.
I can completely understand people wishing ill on those lost here. As I said, I think there’s an element of hubris and needlessness in this disaster that makes it upsetting, and that doesn’t even get to the likes of the discrepancy in coverage between this incident and the greater loss near Greece this week.
Still, I suppose I hope this risk was worth it to at least a few of the souls on board.
The people going down would have known the risks and accepted them for an opportunity for a once in a lifetime opportunity to go to the titanic.
I think the problem here is that there's willful recklessness buried in the risk taking here. It's like running a shady skydiving operation and being like "yeah, the professionals are full of it and just want my money, you don't really have to repack the chutes carefully, just stuff that shit in there, it'll be fine. Trust me bro, it's worked for me, like, five times."
There were so many obvious and stupid risks this guy took. There were multiple near misses that should have raised alarm bells, as well as expert whistleblowers who were dismissed. It's frankly a wonder it took this long to fail, and a shame this moron took other people out with him because he was able to just hand wave it all as "risk taking".
Better that than them surviving all that time slowly dying on the seabed.
If it were me or one of my loved ones, aside from rescue, this may be the best outcome.
It sucks that 4 other people were killed by the CEOs own hubris. But at least they don't appear to have suffocated to death. At that depth, it would have been instantaneous.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna90336
good thing we put so much effort into saving a billionaire with a deathwish while we let all these poor people die. Good thing so many peasants were more interested in a billionaire's life than our brothers and sisters the billionaires oppress and exploit out of proud, insatiable, sociopathic greed.
Thanks for sharing the link. Fewer deaths is definitely less tragic than more deaths, but less tragedy makes it easier to talk about - it's not a judgement.
I'm so glad this story is done now. Rich people dying paying huge money for dumb things makes me 😴😴.
Literally couldn't care less...
With all the red flags I've seen in the 4 days of them looking for it, I cannot understand how anyone spending that kind of money on this didn't see enough to back the fuck off.
i'm sorry but the cables on the OUTSIDE of the sub? hell even just LOOKING at the damn thing. And once I saw the controller I'd be out so quick.
The controller was probably the least problematic aspect of the whole thing, and that’s saying something given that they were relying on fucking Bluetooth at the bottom of the ocean.
Main character syndrome, wealth-induced hubris
It does seem like Oceangate advertised in a misleading way, emphasizing claims of safety and compliance with safety standards. There's also probably an unfortunate bias, of sorts, of "rich and powerful man saying something is safe in a confident and authoritative voice so it must be true"
For those wondering about James Cameron's comments, I'd thoroughly recommend watching the Deep Sea Challenger documentary. It is enthralling. I have a friend who actually worked on the sub and went on the expedition with Cameron. In his words: "to underestimate the safety requirements is, put simply, to die."
I feel sorry for thecreww members who were just there to drive the thing, but the rich I could care less and I'm pretty hungry
The CEO/founder was the operator.
I still don't think this is anything to celebrate though.
Better that than suffocating to death slowly on the bottom of the ocean. Sympathy for their families.
Hypoxia is way better than drowning
Not actually correct in this case. Hypoxia is only painless if oxygen is displaced with an inert gas like nitrogen. Our bodies detect low oxygen indirectly via chemoreceptors that detect the increase in blood acidity (respiratory acidosis) induced by high carbon dioxide (hypercapnia).
As humans breathe in a sealed environment, oxygen is replaced with CO2. Hypercapnia is what causes the panic and pain of drowning prior to inhalation of water. Consciousness is lost mere seconds after water inhalation.
Drowning and hypercapnic asphyxiation are essentially the same experience in terms of suffering.
Secondary outcomes and resuscitation are a different story, but are obviously not applicable here.
They would have died (or at the very least, lost consciousness) from the pressure long before they drown.
A sudden implosion is the best-case scenario, given how else it could have gone.
This is incredibly sad but at least it was a quick death.
Nice going with the breaking report. At least they went painlessly.
"catastrophic loss of pressure"?
Wouldn't it be a catastrophic increase of pressure? They were at the bottom of the ocean.
You need high internal pressure to not implode, I guess that's what they mean
No? It's the hull of the vessel that counters the outside pressure. The main reason to use a submarine, instead of scuba diving, is to shield yourself from the pressure. If the inside pressure was even close the the outside, which it would have to be to keep it from imploding, you wouldn't need the submarine at all; you'd be crushed regardless.
At the depth of the Titanic, roughly 4000 m, the water pressure is ~400 bar. The record for highest survived air pressure is around 70 bar. That was for 2 hours, breathing a special gas mixture of 99,5% hydrogen and 0,5% oxygen.
I find it highly unlikely that they'd rely on the inside air pressure for anything other than the comfort of the passengers.
Yes? I want to agree, it's an increase of pressure from the surrounding waters.
Hmm I wonder what were the tapping sounds that were detected by sonar in 30min intervals then. So sad.
Apparently it may have been the Titanic itself shifting.
The hubris of CEO Stockton Rush caused the death of 4 other people.
It's sad but ultimately this is the kind of thing that can happen when you explore the frontiers of humanity's reach. People die every year climbing Mount Everest. It's inevitable that space tourism will eventually result in tragic accidents. I applaud these people for their bravery and passion to push forward the means by which we explore our world. I hope that future explorers are able to learn from the mistakes that were made and that future endeavors will be safer because of it.
The endeavors were already relatively safe. These people pushed the envelope on how unsafe they could make it. There were warning signs, red flags, and a whistleblower.
What they've likely done is set back this type of exploration.
People keep calling this “exploration” and the people on board “explorers”. The Titanic is the most well-documented shipwreck in history. The site has been picked over by countless dive teams, scientists, engineers, oceanographers and historians. There is nothing left to discover. Let’s call them what they were: rich tourists whose hubris made them think they were invincible but actually lead to their pointless, avoidable deaths and a search operation that will likely cost American, Canadian, French and British taxpayers millions.
haha