Basic income 'unlocked dozens of doors for me,' supporter says amid call for national program | CBC News
Basic income 'unlocked dozens of doors for me,' supporter says amid call for national program | CBC News
18 comments
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I think it's worth pursuing. People who are on programs now that would risk losing those programs by getting a job, could now go get a job, and some of those people will excel and grow and make money and pay lots of taxes. All low wage jobs would suddenly be that much more interesting and there wouldn't be as much pressure to drive up the minimum wage.
I'd be curious about how the dollars work out How expensive would it be if we didn't need AISH, employment insurance, CPP, or any number of other living assistance programs anymore (or which of those it makes most sense to axe, which to keep, and which can be dialed back). Definitely worth exploring the idea, in isolation or in comparison to other cash expenditures.
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
resident was a student at Trent University in 2017 when then-premier Kathleen Wynne's government launched the largest basic income pilot North America had seen in 50 years.
Authors write it made participants feel more dignified, proud and confident, allowed them more agency in how they spent their time and money, and did not seem to disincentivize work.
"Almost every single person we spoke with used basic income in a positive way to improve their lives … [the program] worked precisely as it was meant to."
David said often, conversation around basic income is limited to labour market impact, but what people really wanted to talk about was being able to afford things like nice glasses, their child's favourite food or a new mattress.
She's now the interim executive director of food security non-profit The Nourish and Develop Foundation, and says that although speaking about one's experience with social assistance can come with a lot of stigma, it's important to advocate.
Topfer contributed to a zine David and her BICYN co-chair Chloe Halpenny produced based on the new report and then distributed to schools, libraries and elected officials throughout the country.
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Receiving some extra money benefits people who get it, all other things being equal. Water is wet.
The question is what happens when you implement such a program widely. All things will not be equal then. How would it affect inflation, the labor market, etc.?
One might expect that even if it was implemented in a way that didn't increase the money supply, which would be difficult, it would increase inflation for at least two reasons. First, because working class people are more likely to spend it, increasing consumer demand. Second, because people who were approaching retirement would be incentivized to retire earlier, decreasing labor supply and production output. All these effects are inflationary.
This is a complex subject and I wish people saw beyond the simplest first-order effects.
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Dude, they did it for an entire town in Manitoba for four years in the 1970s, and none of the horrors some people seem to love to predict with respect to UBI ever materialized. How big and long-lasting would a pilot program have to be to convince you that yes, this does work?
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Dude, they did it for an entire town in Manitoba for four years in the 1970s
The experiment did not apply to everybody in the village, but to a small subset of people.
none of the horrors some people seem to love to predict with respect to UBI ever materialized
The experiment did show a reduction in the number of hours worked in the house, as expected.
The experiment wasn't in any way self-sufficient. The funds came from the wider province, and thus the cascade of "fewer people working leading to a loss of tax revenue, making it harder to continue funding the UBI" couldn't have materialized.
This isn't idle speculation: this loss of revenue is the reason why the age at which people are eligible to receive a public pension has been increasing in developed countries.
Lastly, the experiment didn't attempt to measure inflation in the prices of goods and services provided in the village, so we can't tell whether it materialized or not.
How big and long-lasting would a pilot program have to be to convince you that yes, this does work?
I don't know. The specific concerns about the ramifications of a UBI and hasn't been addressed properly by any UBI advocates. I would like future pilot projects to be designed specifically to address them.
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Consider just the labour market. You imply that taking people out of the labour market is a bad thing, but how?
If a person can further their education as a result, that sounds positive.
If a student is better able to focus on their studies, that sounds positive.
If a parent is able to stay home with young children or work only part time with older children, that sounds positive.
If an adult is able to care for elderly or infirm relatives instead of putting them into a long term care facility, that sounds positive.
If a worker is able to retire a bit earlier, opening up opportunities for those struggling to enter the workforce, that sounds positive.
Your "labour market impact" makes it sound like you think businesses are entitled to the labour of others.
As for the rest, much can be avoided by appropriately funding universal services, thus limiting the role of ready cash.
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Eh, I don't think there's much of an argument for UBI to not be means-tested. If it's meant to be a basic support so that people can maintain dignity through their most difficult time, I doubt you're seeing people choosing early retirement. Besides, OAS and GIS are already means-tested basic income for seniors.
As for big inflationary force? Maybe? But the idea that lifting a limited portion of the population out of the worst of financial circumstances will cause problematic inflation is pretty laughable. Economists still don't know what actually causes inflation, apart from the expectation of inflation.
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There are plenty of arguments for it not being means tested including not having the huge administrative burden and removing social stigma. I think people often don’t realize the time and finances required to administer means testing.
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I don’t think there’s much of an argument for UBI to not be means-tested
That would make it a basic income, but not a universal basic income. Just to clarify the terms.
Something similar to what you are describing is called a negative income tax, in case you want to learn more about that.
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18 comments