Swing-state Muslim Americans threaten to vote against Biden

The neoliberal mantra:

Yeah, we're shit. But what are you going to do, vote Republican?

In real life some of those people just won't vote. I'll never understand why the blame isn't put on the candidate for low voter turnout.

It just sucks neoliberals have shown time and time again that they're fine ignoring anyone to the left of them because they feel entitled to their votes. Even tho it's clearly not been working for decades.

Yeah, we’re shit. But what are you going to do, vote Republican?

You forgot the bit at the end where they laugh like a One Piece villain.
- Whispers Because they are exactly that.
Sure, if you want to interpret "voting against Biden" as not voting. On election day, I think most Muslims know that not voting or voting for Trump or any other Republican is directly against their interests.
- I think you put a lot of faith in the typical voter.
- You pretty much just reworded my exaggerated quote:
  
  Yeah, we’re shit. But what are you going to do, vote Republican?
It has been working fine, they keep getting elected.
- So 2016 to 2020 really was a fever dream and the Supreme Court isn't packed with far right religious extremists?!

Abused minority: attempts to use the only leverage they have to influence policy away from full-throated support of an ongoing genocide

Neoliberals and their useful idiots: "You must want fascism!" 🤦

Considering that literally the only other options would be objectively worse, and would give the openly fascistic party a better chance at winning, are they wrong tho?

I fucking hate the stranglehold on power that the 2 party system gives to both parties, and how it allows them to hold our votes hostage. But at the same time I'm a pragmatist who understands how electoral politics works, and also someone who understands that while voting won't get you to a utopia, not voting can absolutely help push the country farther and farther away (as we saw in 2016).

I'm absolutely not going to be the guy that tries to guilt people into voting against the fascists even if it means holding their nose for a party they don't like (which is where I've landed), but there really isn't a much better option available that isn't directly against peoples' better interests. I'd love to hear where I'm wrong or overlooking something better, but I haven't seen it yet.
- I agree. It's a huge gambit that is unlikely to pay off.
  
  Why? Because despite valid concerns over Israeli aggression and Palestinian oppression, support for Israel is still high and for every Muslim you try to reach out in support you risk ostracizing the predominantly Democratic Jewish voters (which roughly doubles Muslim population) all the same. I'd hate to be the analyst for Biden on that, but it's pretty cut-and-dry.
- Right but... they don't want Trump to be president. They want someone like Biden to be (or Biden) and for Biden to not support a brewing 'Hot' Genocide (It was already arguably one and I don't know the proper terms here). It's just that the only leverage they have is withdrawing support. It's a game of chicken.
- What openly fascist party?
That's how first past the post voting works. It sucks, but until that changes it's what we got.
- Yeah, except for the fact where even THREATENING to do anything but meekly go along with it gets you ridicule if not outright hostility, no matter how noble the goal.
  
  If you truly think it sucks, why are you vehemently defending it against viewpoints closer to your own than those of the out of touch establishment?
I get that not voting for Biden is bad, and so I will, but I'm so very tired of people blaming voters for not being excited for shitty candidates. Give us good candidates for once, please.
- Well we almost got Bernie before the DNC decided he couldn't win and went again him.
  
  You want to vote for a Kennedy this year? Not one of the cool ones (they are all dead) one of the weird ones.
Lesser evilists are no small part of why the two party system continues on undisturbed. Free propagandists that are convinced the only way to fix this is to continue to not disturb the system that continues to produce further right candidates every term.

Whats the definition of insanity again?

But my favorite part is instead of doing anything civicly productive, they would rather simply yell at the citizens who don't think and vote the same way they do.
- Lesser evilists are no small part of why the two party system continues on undisturbed.
  
  I mean it's literally proven with math that FPTP voting systems descend into duopolies but whatever makes you feel superior
- And yet people constantly harping about voting about voting for third parties in a system that doesn't support it totally isn't screaming into the wind over and over.
  
  I dont disagree that we need a change... but voting for third party national candidates isn't the way to do it.

…yeah, I’m sure Trump will have your back…

Exactly. I'm sure they're pissed at Biden for his position on Israel. Justifiably. But Trump already has a track record of being bigoted when it comes to Muslims and already talks about oppressing them, so this seems like cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

I think it’s just shitty they have to choose between their families getting attacked in the Middle East and their families getting attacked in America.

What a terrible system of government.
- I agree with you 100%, but that's the reality of the situation. We should have anything but FPTP voting in this country so people like American Muslims don't have to make faustian bargains, but I hope they realize they do have to make that bargain if they wish to retain their rights.
So, are Democrats going to adapt to this reality?

Or are they gonna demand enthusiastic support regardless of their behavior and start blaming people they already regarded with withering contempt when that doesn't work?
- I'm not sure why you're asking me as if I control them.
- This is just another iteration in the infinite loop of “blue no matter who.” We could’ve had Kucinich but the media conglomerates did their overlords’ bidding and silenced him. We could’ve had a lot of human, but infinitely more decent pols. They either ended up dead or received media silence. Funny how tfg continues to get plenty of coverage.
The democrats also actively work against minorities. The difference is that you guys try to hide it, when the republicans are honest about hating people who aren't middle-class whites.
- Are you actually claiming that Democrats are as oppressive and dangerous to minorities as Republicans? Because that's some "enlightened centrist" bullshit.
Go look up Biden’s voting record.
- What specifically in Biden's voting record means he will oppress Muslims more than Trump will? You tell me. He has a very long voting record, so telling me to look it up is not especially informative or helpful.

"At least we voted our conscience on Gaza" ~ Muslim Americans as they get dragged off to the MAGA reeducation camps.

Then you completely understand why voting for a 3rd party is not a realistic option for change at the national level and only serves to siphon votes from your chosen party and actively works against the causes you claim to want to promote.

By all means, vote 3rd party in the general, I've done it more than once during contentious elections. I'm not your dad and I'm not looking to convince you of who to vote for, but I'm not going to stay silent when people act like there's no downside to holding their ideals in the face of reality.

Let's be fair. With the Electoral college it doesn't matter, unless you happen to live in a handful of states.

Otherwise, in Minnesota and In Idaho you can vote for whomever the fuck you want since your vote matters as much as a fart on a roller coaster.
- Exactly! The electoral college makes your vote meaningless. They only look at the general vote as a statistic. I think that statistic should reflect discontent when we we're inevitably again asked to pick between 2 ancient pedophile capitalists.

Ah yes, the glory that is bipartisan democracy.

Not surprised at all. Biden has been awful with his Israel stance and I honestly can't judge anyone that won't put their vote on him for that.

Whether you think he's been "awful" or not, I'm sure there are at least as many who would now consider voting for Biden on the other side of the issue.

You win some, you lose some.

Horse race garbage.

Place yer bets! Place yer bets! 5-to-2! Polls incoming!

. . . Garbage media. 22 paragraphs, most were one sentence. Another insult to democracy.

This is the best summary I could come up with:

“The sad thing about it is those who truly care about democracy did this to themselves by their mismanagement of this issue,” Alzayat said of Biden, with whom he met last week as part of a small group of Muslim American leaders invited to the White House.

And while Muslims are a tiny minority of the overall U.S. population — about half the number of American Jews — they happen to make up a large enough proportion of several battleground states to be at least theoretically capable of swinging an election, were they to pull support from Biden en masse.

Religion Census, run by a consortium of religious institutions and other nonprofit groups, estimated that there were 110,00 Muslim adherents in Arizona total, including people ineligible to vote because they are too young or not citizens.

Wassim Malas, executive director of the Wisconsin Muslim Civic Alliance, said many in his community feel that Biden has failed to recognize the humanity of Palestinian civilians and advocate for their plight as much as he has for Israeli citizens killed in the Oct. 7 terror attack.

Biden’s remarks in an Oval Office address this month urging Israel “not to be blinded by rage” and telling Muslim Americans, “I see you" and "you belong” were helpful, Malas said, noting that the White House seems to be moving in a better direction.

In Minnesota, local Muslim leaders held a press conference Friday setting a deadline of noon Tuesday for Biden to call for a full cease-fire in Gaza or lose their support.

The original article contains 2,021 words, the summary contains 257 words. Saved 87%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

Did you read the article?

" in multiple battleground states that Biden won with thin margins last time, a growing chorus of community leaders say his handling of the war in Gaza and Islamophobia at home jeopardize his path to victory in the Electoral College, with many Muslim American and Arab American voters saying they plan to either stay home next November, vote for a write-in or a third-party presidential candidate, or simply leave the top of the ticket blank."

Not voting for Biden isn't the same as voting for Trump. If it was, then not voting for Trump would mean that they were defacto voting for Biden.

Votes are earned, otherwise people are just hostages. If Biden, and Democrats at large, care about their votes, they'll earn them.

In a 2 party system, not voting for a party that does not rely on voter suppression, is giving a vote to a party that does.

Conservatism needs disenfranchised votes, they always benefit from lower voter turn out.
- No, a +1 for Candidate A and a -1 for Candidate B is a swing of 2. A -1 for Candidate B is a swing of 1. 1 =/= 2.
Yes, I read the article before posting it...

And, yes, in a 2-party, winner-take-all system, not voting is the same as voting for Trump.

On election day, I think most Muslims know that not voting or voting for Trump or any other Republican is directly against their interests.
They’re not earned and people are voluntary hostages like their so noble for it.
Votes are earned, otherwise people are just hostages.

Whole lotta Stockholm syndrome in this thread.
- And they’re proud of it! This is a whole lot of “if I just love them the right (pun intended) way, they’ll love me back!”

Would that mean voting for the party that wanted to ban Muslims from entering the country?

Can't blame 'em.

Biden sucks. Biden has ALWAYS sucked. His only selling point was damage control over Trump. But that's thin and a tough sell with his full throated endorsement of Israeli oppression. At no point is real change an option in the voting booth, it's just picking the lesser of two evils. I don't fault those who can't stomach it.

Not voting or voting for Trump will be directly against any interests American Muslims might have regardless of whether Biden "sucks" or not.

In the US 2-party system where the winner takes all, not voting is the same as voting for Trump.
- not voting is the same as voting for Trump.
  
  It is not.

Brilliant, so they can get deported?

Good, don’t vote for Biden, he sucks ass in myriad ways. Different rhetoric, same old white man.

There are progressives running who could use votes. Marianne Williamson, Cenk Uygur to name a few. Vote for them instead.

Doesn't matter if you think Biden "sucks" or not.

In the US 2-party system where the winner takes all, if you vote for a third party, you may as well vote for Trump.
- They send different signals. If Trump wins 55% of the vote, and Biden wins 45% of the vote, Democrats realize they need to compromise on contentious issues (maybe ban abortions federally or let insane people buy more guns etc.)
  
  If Trump wins 46% of the vote, Biden wins 42% of the vote, and a super-left party wins 12% of the vote, Democrats realize they need to comrpomise less on contentious issues and become more radical to capture that 12%, while not scaring off the 42% of the vote they have. That 42% probably isn't in favor of genociding Palestinians for example, so that's something Democrats could concede to the far-left to just gain votes.
  
  I get the arguments that for that 4 year period fascists won because of the split between Democrats and actual leftists, but to pretend that the two situations I outlined are literally identical is obviously foolish as hell.

Its about time that muslim americans realize they have more in common with republicans than they do with democrats and I can assure you that republicans are ready for pogroms geared specifically to you.

Its about time that muslim americans realize they have more in common with republicans than they do with democrats

Lol. Sure.

https://www.cnbctv18.com/world/trump-promises-to-revive-travel-ban-on-muslims-draws-white-house-ire-18180761.htm
- I think "programs geared specifically to you" was tongue in cheek.

... And democrats do have our backs? Lmao democrats hate minorities as much as republicans do, you asshats just don't have the honesty to say it to our faces.

If anything, you're worse than Trump, because he's perfectly honest about the fact that he's working against us. You guys try to hide it.

Hexbear? That you?