Palestine-Israel Crisis Megathread II
This is the second megathread for discussion regarding the crisis.
Informal/Satirical news sources are not allowed on the main feed of the community but you are free to post them in this thread.
Please remember that all community and instance rules apply to this thread hence keep is civil.
I am going to use this thread to make a continuation of what I've posted in the first megathread where I shared a plethora of related links that share insight on the nature of this conflict.
#Nakba
Burying the Nakba: How Israel Systematically Hides Evidence of 1948 Expulsion of Arabs
Classified Docs Reveal Massacres of Palestinians in '48 – and What Israeli Leaders Knew
'I Saw Fit to Remove Her From the World'
Zionist Militia’s Efforts to Recruit Nazis in Fight Against the British Are Revealed
#Recent Events
Using an Attack Dog, Israeli Women Soldiers Forced Palestinian Women to Undress
Cigarette Burns, Beatings, Attempted Sexual Assault: Settlers and Soldiers Abused Palestinians
Israeli Settler Documented Shooting Palestinian at Point-blank in the West Bank
Israeli tank fires on car near Gaza City
Hundreds Involved in Attacking Arabs and Leftists, but Israel Police Arrest Only Four
Far-right Israeli Knesset Member Zvi Sukkot to Head Subcommittee on the West Bank
#Videos
Dr. Gabor Maté (Holocaust Survivor)
Here's an interview regarding recent events.
Katie harper interviews political scientist and activist, Norman Finklestein
At 1:43:50, Finklestein asserts that Israel would bomb a residential area, wait for people to come out and call an ambulance, and then bomb the ambulance.
Katie Harper interviews journalists and political activists regarding recent events.
At 00:24:15, Ali asserts that Israel is willing to shoot their own civilians as evidenced by the Hannibal Directive, verifiable events, and testimonies such as Yasmin Porat's where the IDF was shooting indiscriminately and even fired tank shells into Israeli homes.
#Articles
How colonizers weaponize rape: reflections from the Palestinian case
Opinion | Dying in Southern Gaza: 'I Want to Go Home. At Least I’ll Die After Drinking Fresh Water'
Opinion | Amid the Mourning, Israel's Settlement Enterprise Celebrates a Great Victory
Israeli Soldier's Explosive Tell-All: "Palestinians are right to resist" - Former IDF soldier talks about how he realized that his actions were perpetuating apartheid, and that Palestinians were right to resist through any means.
Tantoura Ethnic Cleansing Testimony - Yosef Diamant [There is a whole-ass documentary for those interested.
Breaking the Silence - Israeli NGO where IDF veterans testify their experiences. Some examples:
If you find any other notable background information, feel free to share.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Israeli tank fires on car near Gaza City
Dr. Gabor Maté (Holocaust Survivor)
Katie harper interviews political scientist and activist, Norman Finklestein
Katie Harper interviews journalists and political activists regarding recent events.
Israeli Soldier's Explosive Tell-All: "Palestinians are right to resist"
Tantoura Ethnic Cleansing Testimony - Yosef Diamant
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
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I recommend this book written by Ilan Pappe a jewish historian, who now lives and works in UK.
July 15 2021
More articles from the author of this piece: Yuval Abraham
Here will be a compiled list of 972 magazine articles related to this conflict, continually updated as I delve into this harrowing treasure trove of information:
July 31, 2015: Palestinian baby burned to death in West Bank arson attack
July 31, 2016: A year since the Duma murders: Navigating justice and pain
October 12, 2020: For Israel, tens of thousands of Palestinian newborns don’t exist
June 8, 2021: Settlers shot Palestinian and mutilated his body as he lay dying
July 15, 2021: Joint militias: How settlers and soldiers teamed up to kill four Palestinians
April 5, 2022: Israel charges Palestinian journalists with incitement — for doing their jobs
April 10, 2022: Israel’s false promise of security
May 25, 2022: Israel says this book justifies Masafer Yatta expulsions. Its author begs to differ
July 8, 2022: This Israeli forbids Palestinians from building. He lives in an illegal outpost
July 11, 2022: Classified document reveals IDF ‘firing zones’ built to give land to settlers
August 11, 2022: ‘We killed a little boy, but it was within the rules’
August 30, 2022: Israel destroyed Palestinian village for luxury settlement that was never built
September 15, 2022: How Israeli media reported a ‘lynching’ that never happened
September 26, 2022: ‘We built the Palestinian Authority with blood. We won’t give up on it’
November 8, 2022: “He asked me how many children I have. Then he said: ‘Now you have one less.'”
October 5, 2022: In Jenin and Nablus, resistance and despair go hand in hand
January 24, 2023: A coming out party for Israel’s religious Jewish left
February 16, 2023: The theft of Harun Abu Aram’s body, home, and life
February 27, 2023: The pogrom is the point
March 2, 2023: ‘They were burning our house with kids inside. The army didn’t let us through’
March 5, 2023: ‘I couldn’t see if my brother’s murderer was a soldier or settler’
March 13, 2023: ‘Who hits a 64-year-old woman with a bat?’
March 22, 2023: Armed settlers break into Palestinian family home under cover of darkness
May 3, 2023: Revealed: The IDF unit turning ‘hilltop youth’ settlers into soldiers
November 13, 2023: How a hasbara group’s sham investigation put Gaza journalists in the firing line
November 23, 2023: What Israelis won’t be asking about the Palestinians released for hostages
November 30, 2023: A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
December 8, 2023: ‘It would’ve been better if they shot us’: Palestinians recount prison abuse
December 11, 2023: ‘Diseases are spreading rapidly’: In Jabalia camp, thousands shelter in one school
December 19, 2023: Gaza’s rescue workers are haunted by those they couldn’t save
December 19, 2023: A Palestinian student briefly deleted her social media. Israel revoked her permit
December 28, 2023: Palestinian Christians in Gaza fear being ‘swept under the rubble or into the desert’
Thank you for this. Very helpful.
They migrated from North Arabia and took Jewish land every time the Jews were forcefully removed by a long line of oppressors. Then, when every Arab country started kicking out Jews, thy had nowhere to go but their homeland. When they arrived in the early 40's en masse, the Palestinian leader met with Hitler to see about exterminating them. You got the colonizer/colonized dynamic backwards. This is what happens when you get your info from Facebook.
I saw this YouTube comment where people were arguing whether the Palestinians or Jewish people were there first. Does anyone know how accurate this comment is?
Seems like baseless rhetoric to justify the ongoing colonization and atrocities of the past century.
First, Arabs and Hebrews both have ancestry dating to the Levant back in the bronze age. Many of the Jews back then would have descendents that would later convert to Christianity and Islam.
Second, up until the colonial era, when the Jews were being persecuted by European nations, they sought refuge under Arab and Muslim rule. One notable example would be the Muslim Sultan, Salah ad-Din, allowing Jews to resettle in Jerusalem after the European Crusaders brutally kicked them out. Another example would be the treatment of Jews under the Ottoman Empire.
Third, even if all of this was not true, that does not justify the ongoing oppression, atrocities, ethnic cleansing, genocide of the indigenous people for the past 75 years, nor does it change who is and isn't a colonizer and the colonized. This video gives a good explanation on why.
‘America First’ Republicans Explain Why They Support Israel’s Military
“Oh, just because I have a basement full of Nazi memorabilia, I can’t support Israel?”
What's the educated opinion of how could this been handled by Israel? Honest question. (Ignoring the fact that Israel failed with intel)
To me it seems like Gaza had no intention to get rid of Hamas though at the same time bombing is unnecessary as the culprits can't really leave other than the secret tunnels to Egypt which can't really be bombed.
So the only real alternative is a full Blockade and ultimatum or something? Clearly Gaza doesn't stand a chance against IDF too so Israel had all of the cards to conjure any response they wanted.
I've tried to Google similar modern scenarios and couldn't find anything.
To me it seems like Gaza had no intention to get rid of Hamas though at the same time bombing is unnecessary.
There hasn't been elections for 16 or 17 iirc so how can Palestinians "get rid of" Hamas?
Hamas was supported & funded by Netanyahus likud party specifically because it drove a wedge between those in Gaza and in the West Bank. Classic divide and conquer technique.
As for what Israel can do? They can get rid of the genocidal crook that's running their government and his two murderous far right henchmen and grasp that he had concocted this situation for several reasons:
To divert attention away from his corruption and fraud indictments
To quell the protests that have been going on for months against him because of the corruption and legislation he has passed to curtail the supreme courts ability to hold the executive to account.
To level Gaza, ethnically cleanse it & genocide the Palestinian people so he can get to the natural gas and oil reserves there.
Yes, there's a lot Israel can do and it needs to be quick about it.
Ideally Israel wouldn't have been oppressing Palestinians in the first place so that Hamas would never have come to power. They could have engaged in dialogue and diplomacy with Hamas and the Palestinians to figure out something that would work for everyone. They could have negotiated a prisoner swap or something for the hostages.
But Israel, specifically Likud and the right-wing parties, have no interest in this. They want all of Palestine gone, and to control it all themselves.
Not to mention that Hamas had accepted the 1967 borders back in 2017 and it was Netanyahu who rejected it. Hamas is a pet project by Netanyahu to divide Palestinians in Gaza from the West Bank. He’s helped nurture and support them as a means to do more land grabs and expand Israel’s territorial grip. So the starting point has to be a full withdrawal of the occupation, the ability for Palestinians to have a democratic government that is free from Israeli influence, and the restoration of the 1967 borders. The withdrawal of all Israeli settlers from within Palestinian borders.
They can also currently stop protecting murderers in the west bank. So we don't have to ask how did a radical movement take power there a couple of years from now.
Dealing with this situation logically doesn't work, because it's not logic that got it started.
Both sides have majority support for essentially exterminating the other side.
Add to the fact that both sides are receiving massive external support in order for those external nations to wage a proxy war against each other, and it's just a shit show all around.
You’re right, logic didn’t start the current conflict. The British did when they disarmed Palestinians and armed and trained Zionist paramilitaries. This enabled the Zionists to forcibly evict hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homes in a brutal ethnic cleansing campaign. The pace at which Palestinians are being displaced has slowed but it has never stopped. While Palestinian resistance movements have received outside support it pales in comparison to the military support Israel receives from the US and other western countries. This conflict is unfortunately very one sided.
This isn't exactly an answer for how it could have been handled, but it's got a lot of great info on the complicated factors at play.
Causes of the war https://youtu.be/zMxHU34IgyY
Israel's reaction/overreaction https://youtu.be/B4H95DlII2s
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https://piped.video/zMxHU34IgyY
https://piped.video/B4H95DlII2s
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Get a peace-keeping force made up of Iranians. If missiles are still being shot from Gaza after that, Israel can go to war with Iran and cut out the middle-man.
For those who haven't seen it yet, here's a short video on the history of the conflict:
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How Palestine Became Colonized
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I'll just say it.
The state of Israel is basically the modern Nazi Germany.
I want Israel to exist, but not by genociding an entire ethnic group from the land. This is fucked up, and fuck anyone defending these actions.
Published by the IDF about six hours ago on YouTube: Inside a Hamas Terrorist Tunnel Under Rantisi Hospital in Gaza
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Inside a Hamas Terrorist Tunnel Under Rantisi Hospital in Gaza
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Dozens killed in Israeli strike on Indonesian hospital in northern Gaza.
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Anxious, optimistic: Families of female Palestinian prisoners await release
‘Can regain our soul’: Relief and fear in Gaza ahead of Israel truce
Israel releases Palestinian women and children prisoners under Hamas deal
Photos: Palestinians released from prison reunite with loved ones
Family celebrates return of freed Palestinian prisoner Marah Bakeer
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39 Palestinian women and children were sent home
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Israeli fire destroys water reservoir in northern Gaza amid dire shortage of clean drinking water.
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Map of Palestine from National Geographic magazine 1947.
Gaza’s Christian community faces ‘threat of extinction’ amid Israel war.
Israel’s assault on Gaza could spell the end of the Christian community’s long history in the enclave.
Statement by Hamas' Izzat Al-Rishq;
"Regarding what the spokesman for the terrorist enemy army said about the arrival of prisoners of the occupation to Al-Shifa Hospital, we said early on that the resistance transferred many prisoners of the occupation to hospitals to receive treatment and undergo surgical operations, especially after some of them were injured as a result of the occupation’s aircraft bombing them.
We risked our fighters to guarantee the injured prisoners the best treatment. Possible in hospitals in the Gaza Strip.
We have published many pictures about this; Now their army spokesman presents it as if they have discovered something great.
What the spokesman for the occupation army says completely condemns them. These are points that are recorded for us and not for us.
Taking care of the prisoners, treating them, and giving them possible medical care is a point for us and not for us."
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Senior Hamas Official Says Fighters Waging ‘Fierce Battles’.
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Why you may not see Palestinians celebrating family members' return
Israeli officials warns Palestinians about celebrating the release of prisoners
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Video from 2021 but still relevant.
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Debunking Israel’s ‘Human Shield’ Defense in Gaza Massacre.
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Pro-Israel demonstrator chants Nazi-era slur at protest
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This Interview is worthwile. For everyone who hasn't succumbed to the war on their mind and soul, as the interviewee Yuval Noah Harari phrased it:
[https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=9qaxYQqmzIg](Hamas and Gaza | A Liberal Israeli's View - Yuval Noah Harari | The Rest Is Politics)
Here is the view of the "other side" (PLO not Hamas therefore the " ")
[https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=AtsTsCFxrNI](The View from Gaza | Palestinian Ambassador to the UK - Husam Zomlot | The Rest Is Politics)
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Deadly Air Strike in Gaza Area Where Israel Told People to Go.
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December 3, 2023: ‘Death corridor’: The al-Samounis recall terror of ‘safe passage’ in Gaza
December 6, 2023: Two Gaza brothers stripped, jeered at by Israeli army, one taken captive
December 8, 2023: Palestinians detained by Israel in Gaza blindfolded, stripped to underwear
December 13, 2023: Civilians sheltering inside a Gaza school killed execution-style | December 21, 2023: UN calls for probe as Israeli army accused of killing unarmed Palestinians | Demember 26, 2023: Classroom massacre: Survivors say Israel executed innocents in Gaza school
December 1, 2023: Israeli air strikes pound Gaza as truce with Hamas ends
December 1, 2023: Israel strikes Gaza after truce expires
December 1, 2023: ‘Where to go?’ Palestinians say nowhere safe as Israel resumes Gaza bombing
December 1, 2023: Palestinians flee homes, dig in rubble as Israel resumes strikes on Gaza
December 1, 2023: Gaza aid trucks stranded as Israel-Hamas war resumes
December 1, 2023: ‘Bombing everywhere’: As Israel renews war, my eight-year-old has questions
December 2, 2023: ‘Hell on Earth’ in Gaza: Israel strikes hit Deir el-Balah
December 2, 2023: Photos: More deaths and destruction as Israel targets southern Gaza
December 3, 2023: Over 700 killed in last 24 hours as Israel intensifies strikes | December 3, 2023: From north to south, nowhere safe in Gaza as 700 killed in 24 hours
December 4, 2023: Khan Younis hospital stretched by influx of patients as Israel bombs Gaza
December 4, 2023: No end to suffering of Gaza children as Israeli attacks rage on
December 5, 2023: Searching for survivors after Israeli attack on central Gaza building
December 5, 2023: Israel intensifies strikes on Gaza’s second-largest city
December 6, 2023: Israeli raid kills 22 members of Al Jazeera correspondent’s family in Gaza
December 9, 2023: Photos: Israel bombs Gaza areas it declared safe zones for Palestinians
December 9, 2023: US skips congressional review for emergency sale of tank shells to Israel
December 10, 2023: Nearly 300 killed in Gaza in 24 hours as Hamas, Netanyahu trade threats
December 10, 2023: ‘A hand here, a head there’: Israeli warplanes kill dozens in central Gaza
December 24, 2023: Israeli strikes kill UN staff, more than 70 of his extended family in Gaza
December 25, 2023: ‘Massacre’ as Israel steps up Gaza bombardment for Christmas | December 25, 2023: Israel intensifies Gaza strikes, killing 250 Palestinians in 24 hours | December 25, 2023: Gaza’s Maghazi refugee camp in ruins after deadly Israeli attack
October 6: Palestinian killed as Israeli settlers attack West Bank town of Huwara
November 29: ‘Military camp’: Palestinian town of Huwara under 55-day Israeli closure
December 1, 2023: ‘My son was killed on October 6. There was no Hamas’
December 5: ‘Massacres await’: Palestinians in Nablus warn of deadly settler attacks
December 6, 2023: West Bank family sees no hope of justice in settler killings
December 9, 2023: Two teenagers killed, 15 detained in Israeli raids in occupied West Bank
December 14, 2023: Casualties mount in occupied West Bank as Israeli forces extend raids
December 20, 2023: ‘No safe place’: Jenin’s Freedom Theatre raided, daubed with Star of David
December 24, 2023: Muted Christmas as Palestinian Christians mourn for Gaza
December 25, 2023: Israel hits Bethlehem in Christmas raids on occupied West Bank
December 27, 2023: Six killed in Israeli strike on refugee camp in occupied West Bank