Hamas blocks foreign nationals from leaving Gaza
UK is working to rescue its citizens as 'scared and desperate' people begin looting food
"Officials said that Israel and Egypt were prepared to let foreigners leave the Strip which is under heavy Israeli bombardment, but Hamas had refused."
There's got to be a way to remove Hamas without killing everyone in Gaza. I hope the international community can come together to find a way. I definitely wouldn't leave it to Israel lol.
It probably involves with allying with the PLO or some more secular faction of Palestinians, and Egypt. But they'd need to give something to them or else no one has a reason to support them unless they have some victories they can point to.
As a retired Major-General explained on TV over here the other day, Hamas is a Insurrection Movement, which are made of 3 parts, the Political Side, the Military Side and Popular Support.
Want to destroy Hamas, destroy its popular support side.
The current indiscriminate bombing of Palestinians will never destroy it because not only does it increase the Popular Support for any Insurrection Movement against Israel, it also adds to the number of people who would join the military wing of such a movement (i.e. directly put their lives at risk), especially because for all the parroting of Israel's "human shields" propaganda, what the people there see is Israel choosing to bomb and kill their family, so even those who detest Hamas will detest Israel much much more and with good reason.
Unless Israel is willing to commit a Nazi-sized Genocide (which I suspect its current leadership would do if they thought they could get away with, hence their talk of a "second Nakba"), the solution will never be more violence.
To stop people from going to extreme lenghts, you need to give them something to lose.
Those people lost everything, of course they will fight by any means necessary
That popular support will never disappear, Hamas is using Muslim vs infidels agenda. You see, that works well to brainwash Muslims worldwide. At no point would they stop cursing Israel and Jew.
The current indiscriminate bombing of Palestinians
The only people indiscriminately bombing Palestinians are PIJ and Hamas. They spray and pray with rockets, hundreds of them have landed in Gaza.
Israel's strikes are the most targeted fucking strikes you've ever seen a military do, and they actively warn the people in those buildings with everything from roof knocking to a phone call.
for all the parroting of Israel’s “human shields” propaganda, what the people there see is Israel choosing to bomb and kill their family, so even those who detest Hamas will detest Israel much much more and with good reason.
You call it propaganda, but it's exactly what Hamas is doing, isn't it?
When Israel calls you and tells you they're going to bomb the building you're in, and when, and Hamas tells you not to leave, how are you going to come away from that hating Israel more than Hamas?
When Hamas steals and hoards gasoline that it could use to run the power plant, the hospital generators, the desalination plants... when they dig up water pipes to fire as bombs... when PIJ fires a rocket that hits a hospital parking lot killing hundreds, you think they're too stupid to follow that?
You think they don't blame them for causing this war? They had a ceasefire and then they invaded Israel killing thousands of civilians, and they brought back hundreds of civilian hostages, you don't think they can tell that's an obvious casus belli?
It shouldn't be left to Israel but nobody wants to do it, so we get this cluster fuck. Other surrounding nations can help and take in Palestinian refugees/stamp out Hamas, but the truth is that they don't actually care about Palestinians either.
but the truth is that they don’t actually care about Palestinians either.
They sure do. They care about keeping them in refugee camps, using Israel as a scapegoat for their own war crimes and other bullshit, refusing to let them work, often revoking their citizenship in the rare cases it's been granted! Heaven forbid a third-generation descendant of a Palestinian immigrant be allowed to work in Jordan, or own a permanent home.
There’s got to be a way to remove Hamas without killing everyone in Gaza
Bibi isn't interested in that.
Netanyahu said “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 1 Samuel 15:3 ‘Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass’," .
He's openly calling for genocide.
Not making their only other choice an Israeli puppet would be a great start. Hamas is reactionary. Getting rid of the abuse would go a long way to putting a cap on the reaction.
There's got to be a way to remove Hamas without killing everyone in Gaza. I hope the international community can come together to find a way. I definitely wouldn't leave it to Israel lol.
Israel is going to try its best. Nobody else is going to touch this with a ten foot pole. Most of the international community isn't even willing to condemn Hamas, let alone go in there and get rid of them. Israel literally calls them up in the buildings they're going to bomb and says "please evacuate this building by this time!" You can't make that shit up.
If Egypt or the UN wants to take care of Gaza after the war, and actually make sure they don't get weapons, and actually de-radicalize them (current schools in Gaza are not great at deradicalization), you name it, I'm sure Israel would be on board with that. They didn't blockade Gaza for fun, blockades are expensive. But burying the dead from the constant attacks of a Hamas with infinite weaponry is fucking worse.
You've lost the support of the international community and even the US is distancing itself from the approach you are taking. This is a fools errand to try to extract a part of a society by direct force (see Vietnam, Afghanistan lt;-two different super powers made that mistake). What this will be is an excuse to murder as judge, jury and executioner as you move to further subjugate a civilian population behind closed doors. Literal closed walls in Gaza's case. These kids have grown up knowing nothing but what the adults tell them and looking at the walls that keep them in.
"You name it, I'm sure Israel would be on board with that" How about just releasing the Prisoners for the hostages and going home?
“We spoke bluntly and made it clear to the prime minister in no uncertain terms that a comprehensive deal based on the ‘everyone for everyone’ principle is a deal the families would consider, and has the support of all of Israel,” Meirav Leshem Gonen, mother of Romi Gonen, who was kidnapped from the Supernova dance festival, said on behalf of the families in a news conference following the meeting.
Netanyahu was asked about such a deal at his Saturday news conference, and acknowledged he discussed the option with the families.
“I think that elaborating on this will not help achieve our goal. In the meeting with the families, I felt emotionally helpless,” he said.
So maybe not everything. Please don't judge Dan for not responding, He blocked me an hour ago as he didn't like my response to the justification of the 3,000 children that have been bombed to death in Gaza.
edit: deleted two words I accidentally repeated
The debacle prompted criticism even from allies who said Netanyahu had facilitated Hamas’s grip on Gaza as part of a strategy to divide Palestinians.
“Since coming to power in 2009, Netanyahu has built up Hamas as an alternative to the Palestinian Authority,” wrote Yoav Limor, the military affairs correspondent for Israel Hayom, a normally pro-Netanyahu newspaper. “He was warned countless times that this was a dangerous plan: instead of bolstering the pragmatic elements, he strengthened those that will never recognize Israel’s existence.”
Even normally pro-Israeli news outlets are condemning what is happening. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/israeli-tanks-on-outskirts-of-gaza-city-with-key-road-cut
Israel doesn't really want to be rid of Hamas.
Their investment in the group has already paid dividends.
Memri TV is literally Israeli propaganda.
If Egypt or the UN wants to take care of Gaza after the war, and actually make sure they don't get weapons, and actually de-radicalize them (current schools in Gaza are not great at deradicalization), you name it, I'm sure Israel would be on board with that.
Basically turn them into a mini West bank; people with no means to defend themselves, constantly getting attacked by settlers and the police. Make them believe that this is normal and that they shouldn't defend themselves on your way out.
You could only ACTUALLY get rid of Hamas by getting rid of the current Israeli leadership, because even if you actually knocked out Hamas themselves, the Israeli leadership will just gin up a replacement Hamas to be their strawman in Gaza until they've bombed their way into settlerizing Gaza same way they're doing to the West Bank.
There’s got to be a way to remove Hamas without killing everyone in Gaza.
There is a way, it's just excruciatingly difficult and has no chance of happening.
People will excess wealth will need to give up some of that wealth so others can have more.
For example, increasing immigration limits to the US and giving refugees the means to contribute to society, such as housing and utilities. It shouldn't just be the US, either. All nations with excess can pitch in to help. This can be done, but the hand-sitters among us are already chomping at the bit to tell us why it can't.
I wonder what percentage of their rapidly diminishing military might is being used to block foreigners from leaving? seems like a poor allocation of resources... unless there's something they dont want the foreigners to tell the outside world?
It's not like they ever had a chance of winning considering their definition of winning is driving the Jews into the sea. Their whole purpose is to fuck shit up and cause maximum damage and this makes sense in that context.
From the footage at Rafah, feels like hundreds of foreign nationals are gathered waiting an okay from Israel and Egypt. I don't see WHY Hamas would even care to stop Palestinian Americans from leaving to the states.
Hamas doesn't need to do anything. All they have to do is say nobody's getting out, which means the IDF can assume anyone running towards the exit is a terrorist making an attack. I think any foreign nationals that would ever travel to Gaza know better than to approach Israeli forces for help.
If there's anyone that doesn't want the outside world to know what's up, ask the folks who recently cut off internet access to Gaza. Who was it? It wasn't Hamas.
None. This is the Telegraph a known israeli propaganda outlet. Israel is literally bombing the border crossing and this newspaper is telling you that Hamas is the one responsible for it.
"palestianians". use. human. fucking. shields. fuck. fuck. fuck. fuck. fuck.
Israel will strike an area and kill hundreds of people. If there are males 16-30 killed they will say they were militants often, and that the civilians were collateral damage due to the use of proximity shielding. They do not go in and verify whether or not the people killed were militants. This is an age old tactic, the US would do the same to shift blame for atrocities in Iraq and Afghanistan.
oh, ok. ok. ok. ok. ok.
As an atheist, I’ve generally avoided that area of the world. I’m quite happy to not be directly involved in this stupidity.
cowards like you said the same thing while they were shipping jews to auschwitz in cattle cars. nothing ever changes.
Oh yes, the old "I'm an atheist so I avoid Germany" argument we've all heard a thousand times
No need to ship em anywhere if you have them all surrounded in a prison called Gaza and drop death on em. ^Say's the coward that complains about people being able to see your racist and fascistic posts after you block them. "why can't I say these horrific things without anyone dissenting!"
being against Israel doesn't mean you hate Jews you fucking weirdo
Nazis were explicitly Christian lol
Nazi Germany was overwhelmingly Christian. The athiests of the time were fighting or contributing to the war efforts of their country just like every other person was. There just wasn't too many openly atheistic people due to the discrimination at the time.
I’m a coward?
Netanyahu said “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. 1 Samuel 15:3 ‘Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass’," .
Who's doing an auschwitz again?
"Israel blocks anyone and anything from going into or out of Gaza."
You know Gaza has border with Egypt? That's not possible
The Rafah Border Crossing is the only crossing point between Egypt and the Gaza Strip. It lies on the international border that was confirmed by the 1979 Egypt–Israel peace treaty and the 1982 Israeli withdrawal from the Sinai Peninsula. The Rafah Border Crossing can only be used for the passage of persons. All goods traffic must use the Kerem Shalom border crossing on the Israel-Gaza border.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt%E2%80%93Gaza_border
The Rafah Land Port became the primary border crossing between Egypt and Gaza, managed by the Israel Airports Authority until Israel had dismantled its settlements in Gaza on 11 September 2005 as part of a disengagement plan. It subsequently became the task of the European Union Border Assistance Mission Rafah (EUBAM) to monitor the crossing.
In the 2023 Israel–Hamas war that began in October, the crossing was again effectively sealed. The Egyptian government refused to allow either Gazans or foreign nationals to exit Gaza via the Rafah crossing, despite intensive international efforts to secure a window of time for the Rafah crossing to open to foreigners who want to exit the Strip.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafah_Border_Crossing
The Philadelphi Route, also called Philadelphi Corridor, is a narrow strip of land, 14 km (8.699 miles) in length, situated along the entirety of the border between Gaza Strip and Egypt. Under the provisions of the Egypt–Israel peace treaty of 1979, it was established as a buffer zone controlled and patrolled by Israeli forces. One purpose of the Philadelphi Route was to prevent the movement of illegal materials (including weapons and ammunition) and people between Egypt and the Gaza Strip.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphi_Route
Tl;Dr: Europe, Egypt and Israel all play a part in managing that border. The only party that has zero control over this border is Gaza.
Is the Telegraph a good source for info on this?
The Torygraph is a step up from the lowest tier tabloid.
"Palestinians" never met a human shield they wouldn't call their own
Fun fact! ^He puts Palestinians in quotation marks because he doesn't believe they have any right to the land, can't claim it as a real country and because he thinks none of them are civilians and are actually all terrorists. The more you know!