GAZA: 3,195 children killed in three weeks surpasses annual number of children killed in conflict zones since 2019
GAZA: 3,195 children killed in three weeks surpasses annual number of children killed in conflict zones since 2019
The number of children reported killed in Gaza in just three weeks has surpassed the annual number of children killed across conflict zones
Since October 7, more than 3,257 children have been reported killed, including at least 3,195 in Gaza, 33 in the West Bank, and 29 in Israel, according to the Ministries of Health in Gaza and Israel respectively. The number of children reported killed in just three weeks in Gaza is more than the number killed in armed conflict globally – across more than 20 countries – over the course of a whole year, for the last three years.
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Yet some people still claim Israel is the victim! When the truth is that Israel is a terrorist state.
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The ol' "you shot me in the foot so I burnt down your neighborhood and killed your entire extended family" defense. Unbeatable in the court of law.
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People see will see these numbers and still argue "they are showing restraint, if Israel was really evil they would just carpet bomb them all." Like what the fuck is this then?
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Ministries of Health in Gaza is Operated by Hamas, so it would not be outlandish to say these numbers are being inflated in order to push public opinion and international support
“Hamas has now been in charge of Gaza for 16 years. It has squeezed the life out of honesty and probity. Any health official stepping out of line and not giving the death tolls that Hamas wants reported to journalists risks serious consequences. I’m not denying there are civilians being killed. At all, including many children. That’s verifiable. What is not verifiable are the numbers that emerge throughout the day from Gaza of new death tolls — 700 killed in the last 24 hours, 500 killed in the Ahli hospital car park blast, 5,000 killed since October 8. Hamas has a clear propaganda incentive to inflate civilian casualties as much as possible. There was a time when the figures from the ministry could be relied upon. The doctors and administrators knew what they were doing.”
This is an area of credibility that is still up in the air with reliable sources claiming that it is both reliable and unreliable numbers that are being published. However none of it though dismisses the fact that innocents are dying from Israel’s War with Hamas, innocents that contain children
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It's a bit more complicated than that no?
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How? Out of all middle east states, Israel is the only one where human rights are a thing.
I am not saying everything Israel does is great (especially in East Jerusalem) but the attacker is Hamas. They are the aggressor and have to be removed for good. Just like all terrorists.
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no victims, right. https://lemmy.world/post/7539955
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Of course they are also the victim. Hamas slaughtered adults and children with no remorse. Now Israel is returning the favor.
Both sides are aggressors and victims.
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Israel is the terrorist.
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Hamas are the terrorists preventing citizens from fleeing and using them as shields. They are at fault. Israel is not targeting civilians they are targeting Hamas outposts which Hamas purposefully puts in civilian zones hoping for protection.
Hamas literally wants to wipe all Jewish people from existence and started to do so. So far every one of the stories of what Hamas did to the Jewish folks has turned out to be true. Most of the Hamas ones have turned out to be bs.
Let's be clear. Jews haven't lived in Gaza since 2005. Gaza was given millions and millions of dollars in aid and supplies since. Instead of building a flourishing society, they built tunnels, bombs, and shoot rockets daily at Israel trying to kill Jews even though they don't live in Gaza. There are no "colonizing settlers" for nearly 2 decades.
Enough is enough. Peace is not an option here it's just a blanket that the bad guys use (and break the treaties for) all the time just to get a reprieve when sht gets real.
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You don't think the literal wall that has everyone in Graza literally trapped inside Gaza might have something to do with why there are so many civilians there?
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Netanyahu quoted from First Samuel 15:3, saying, “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. ‘Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys’” The invocation of this biblical passage serves not only as a historical reference but also as a genocidal lens through which the Prime Minister views the current conflict.
Who is saying they literally want to wipe who off the earth again?
Where is the IDF headquarters located? How many civilians are they hiding behind??
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No, I think once your people have been genocided you automatically pass all ethics checks.
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This is how you ensure there's another generation of radicalized individuals to have to combat.
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Not if you kill them all...
A common thing to do back in the day was to not only kill the king, but the members of his family. (Especially the sons). It's brutal, but effective
(And obviously humans should be above that in 2023, but here we are)
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Netanyahu quoted from First Samuel 15:3, saying, “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. ‘Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys’”
The invocation of this biblical passage serves not only as a historical reference but also as a genocidal lens through which the Prime Minister views the current conflict.
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But mentioning it makes you an antisemite, the ADL told me so!
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While the phenomenon of blaming valid criticism as antisemitism exists, the counter claim which you made is now completely weaponised.
In this entire thread, you're the only person that mentioned antisemitism and the vast majority of the comments are very one sided in criticising Israel.
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Fun fact, Palestinians are semites. All Arabs are
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They speak a semitic language, and that's not what anyone's talking about when they refer to anti-Semitism
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To make it perfectly clear - the fact that children are dying is reprehensible and it should be stopped. Even if one innocent child died, from both sides, it's one too many.
That being said, this is a very good example of propaganda by partial information and numbers manipulations.
The UN report in question identifies anyone under the age of 18 as a child. The Al-Qassam brigades recruit teens from the age of 16 to active combative roles (some reports suggest an even younger age).
It's impossible to know how many of these 3,257 children are actually children and how many are armed teens, and the UN report references that. The propaganda completely ignores this part and reframes this information as if more than 3,000 young and innocent children were slain.
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A worldwide charity that's existed for 100 years, whose exclusive mission is trying to save children from war, is a very good example of propaganda? Please explain this, because you say that one is too many but then you say "don't fall for this guys, it's not nearly that many."
Are you saying it's ok to murder minors because they're armed? Are you saying that's why these minors were murdered? Do you have proof of this? Because your statements seem to be the ones which are unfounded and sound a lot like propaganda to excuse the murder of thousands of children.-
A common tactic by propagandists is to call inconvenient information propaganda. It's like how fascists tend to blame their opponents for engaging in behavior that only the fascists are actually engaging in.
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A worldwide charity that’s existed for 100 years, whose exclusive mission is trying to save children from war, is a very good example of propaganda
Absolutely, 100%. Human rights organisations are not unbiased news outlets - they have agendas and objectives. Their objectives are commendable ones, and the work they do is invaluable, but they still utilise propaganda as a means to an end. As good and important as this end is, their reports should be received with the same amount of caution and critical thinking as any report coming from anyone with an objective in this.
you say that one is too many but then you say “don’t fall for this guys, it’s not nearly that many
That's just a straw man. I never suggested that it's not that many. It can be 3,257 and it could be 0. I just pointed out the information manipulation.
Are you saying it’s ok to murder minors because they’re armed
It's never ok, but unfortunately this is war and war is shit. An ak47 in the hands of a 12 years old can kill just as well as one in the hands of a 20 years old.
Another point for you to consider is that traditionally, in the Philippines, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, Cambodia, many regions of Africa and essentially wherever there were children-soldiers, the ones that indoctrinated them, trained them and placed firearms in their hands were the ones who were blamed for their deaths.
You seem to hold Israel as the only one accountable for it.
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It’s impossible to know how many of these 3,257 children are actually children and how many are armed teens,
And if they were armed teens, should we kill them? The ministry of health published the numbers. You can choose whatever age you deem acceptable for the Qassam Brigades and do some math to get the "real" number of children victims, if you like.
It’s impossible to know how many of these 3,257 children are actually children and how many are armed teens,
All of them are fucking children. Everyone under 18 is a child. Stop this bullshit.
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It's disingenuous to suggest however there isn't a difference between civilians and fighters. Either way though, yeah, they're all children. I don't know if it's more horrifying for a child soldier to be killed vs a civilian child either. It's two different kinds of horror.
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Bigger font doesn't make you more right.
You can choose whatever age you deem acceptable for the Qassam Brigades and do some math to get the “real” number of children victims
That's just the thing with manipulating numbers - we can't do the math. That's why it's so effective and why you need to apply critical reading to these kind of reports.
And if they were armed teens, should we kill them
Answer me this - say you have a group of people preparing to launch a rocket. That rocket is inaccurate but they aim it towards a city. There's a high chance that you'll be able to intercept it, but there's always a chance that it'll fall on a building and kill civilians.
You can target this group, drop a bomb on them and stop them from firing this rocket. Now you learn that 2 of them are 17 years old. Do you drop the bomb? Or do you let them fire the rocket?
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The propaganda completely ignores this part and reframes this information as if more than 3,000 young and innocent children were slain.
The only thing that's really propaganda here is your comment. A child conscripted to fight in a war is still a child, and no amount of pretending otherwise by propagandists like yourself will change that fact.
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The only thing that’s really propaganda here is your comment
How so?
A child conscripted to fight in a war is still a child
I agree, but I'll copy what I answered the other comment about this exactly: It’s never ok, but unfortunately this is war and war is shit. An ak47 in the hands of a 12 years old can kill just as well as one in the hands of a 20 years old.
in the Philippines, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, Cambodia, many regions of Africa and essentially wherever there were children-soldiers, the ones that indoctrinated them, trained them and placed firearms in their hands were the ones who were blamed for their deaths.
You seem to hold Israel as the only one accountable for it.
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Propaganda is what's coming from your mouth.
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"Not only is the child murder bad! It's the worst it's been since like 2019." -the news.
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I can just pray that war stops asap, cant see innocents dying...
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Let’s pray for hamas immediate surrender and release of the hostages. EDIT: looks like the tankies are backing hamas.
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Let's hope Hamas releases the hostages and the state with one of the strongest military in the world backed by the most powerful nation in the world stop bombing kids that they have crammed into a tiny strip of land, and start working only actually solving the root of problem. Hamas' greatest recruiter and radicaliser is Israel. The only side with the power to stop these atrocities from continuing for decades to come is Israel.
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After Hamas' actions on the 7th I don't see Israel stepping back. Their previous attempts at curtailing Hamas were already under criticism for not going far enough, and that was before the largest attack in decades had occurred
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A couple of videos I watched on the subject seem to clearly point at Israel being the aggressor. The existence of Hamas was directly caused by persistent aggression from the Isreali government.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv1SpwwJEW8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWvSxSEZ4WM -
So attack Hamas, not just whoever you can find that looks like them.
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Jesus tap dancing Christ...
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Website is called savethechildren. I have been conditioned through hundreds of events that their goal is, in fact, to hurt children. I don't know how, but I'm certain it shall become true.
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Ministries of Health in Gaza is Hamas lead no? Would not be surprised to see the numbers in Gaza being inflated
“Hamas has now been in charge of Gaza for 16 years. It has squeezed the life out of honesty and probity. Any health official stepping out of line and not giving the death tolls that Hamas wants reported to journalists risks serious consequences. I’m not denying there are civilians being killed. At all, including many children. That’s verifiable. What is not verifiable are the numbers that emerge throughout the day from Gaza of new death tolls — 700 killed in the last 24 hours, 500 killed in the Ahli hospital car park blast, 5,000 killed since October 8. Hamas has a clear propaganda incentive to inflate civilian casualties as much as possible. There was a time when the figures from the ministry could be relied upon. The doctors and administrators knew what they were doing.”
This is an area of credibility that is still up in the air with reliable sources claiming that it is both reliable and unreliable numbers that are being published. However none of it though dismisses the fact that innocents are dying from Israel’s War with Hamas, innocents that contain children
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You mean you don't trust the word of religious fanatics? SHAME SHAME SHAME
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The health ministry is completely separate from Hamas
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Source? I was under the impression that Hamas was in charge of all Governance in the Gaza Strip
EDIT: Following the 2007 Hamas takeover of Gaza, a month-long doctors' strike ensued due to political disputes. The new Gaza government, with Basem Naim as Health Minister, replaced Fatah-affiliated hospital directors and staff with Hamas loyalists. Jomaa Alsaqqa, a 20-year surgeon at al-Shifa Hospital, lost his job due to his Fatah support and faced arrests and assaults since the Hamas takeover. In response, Naim stated "the hospital managers weren't fired for political reasons: they were fired because of managerial, financial, and moral corruption in the hospitals." per wikipedia article here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Health_Ministry)
While there are political independent and non political members of the Gaza Health Ministry it is still under the direction of Hamas itself.
This is an area of credibility that is still up in the air with reliable sources claiming that it is both reliable and unreliable numbers that are being published. None of it though dismisses the fact that innocents are dying from Israel's War with Hamas, innocents that contain children
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You have to understand that there is a big difference between killing innocents like Hamas does - purposefully coming to peaceful Kibbutzim and killing as many people as possible and deaths of innocents Palestinians which happen because Hamas are fucking terrorists and hide between/under civil locations.
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Two war crimes don’t make a right. I find it suspect how many members of the press and their families consistently happen to be close to Hamas or their tunnels. Seems more like a blanket excuse to me
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Stop posting obviously false info from a terrorist group.
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100 year old charity whose goal is to save children from war is a terrorist group.... Are you ok?
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Save the Children, in line with OCHA updates, is currently relying on data from the Israeli Ministry of Health for casualties in Israel and from the Gaza Ministry of Health for casualties inside Gaza. Due to the current situation, information and numbers provided by both ministries cannot be verified independently.
important note, since Gaza's ministry is run by the Hamas and Israel could play those numbers down.
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That is refuted already down the page, but here you go. From the AP:
“The numbers may not be perfectly accurate on a minute-to-minute basis,” said Michael Ryan, of the World Health Organization’s Health Emergencies Program. “But they largely reflect the level of death and injury.”
In previous wars, the ministry's counts have held up to U.N. scrutiny, independent investigations and even Israel's tallies.Not that I believe you care, as you attempt to lessen the deaths of scores of children, which certainly is gross!
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what do I attempt 🤔
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Do we have the name of these children or even photo?
The nazi, at the very least, kept a listing of them allowing history to take the measure of this shit. Here Israel goes to full obliteration!
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Yes we do, thousands of them. They write their names with markers in their little arms and legs, specifically for you @WuTang@lemmy.ninja . You can go look it up, they published every single name of the confirmed dead so far and pictures of the unidentified. So you can read each and every name of every children bombed, crushed by building and shot in the face.
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The nazi, at the very least
You do not have to give them even the very least
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yes, I had rewritten the sentence but it didn't work after that. My thought was more "even the nazi, the worst kind, ..." I should add: at that time. Israeli is the new standard for a while now..
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It's shameful that Hamas terrorists intentionally use children as shields.
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Let me ask you two questions.
If Hamas is using the Palestinian people as shields and is forcefully preventing civilians from moving away from them, that makes the Palestinian people effectively hostages of Hamas. So if the Palestinian hostages happen to be near Hamas terrorists, are they acceptable collateral damage if Israel bombs them?
Eventually, Israel will find out where the Israeli hostages are being kept. Obviously, there will be Hamas terrorists near them. Are the Israeli hostages acceptable collateral damage if Israel bombs them?
If you answered yes to one question, and no to the other, you should ask yourself why you put different value on the lives of innocent human beings. Is it what side of a fence they are born on? What nationality they happen to have? What religion they believe in? The color of their skin?
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Ugh, that's twisted logic, so all civilian casualties should be ultimately attributed to Hamas? None of them can be attributed to perhaps an indiscriminate aerial bombardment running for three weeks?
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If the bombing was truly indiscriminate then you'd have a point. But a 3 week WW1 era artillery campaign would have fully leveled Gaza a few times over. In order to honestly believe that Israel is indiscriminately bombing Gaza you must believe that their military, the IDF, is the single most incompetent fighting force to ever walk the planet.
If so then yes, attacking the powerful removed is Hamas' fault and you can attribute the problems that result to them.
Alternatively if you accept that they are discriminatory in where they bomb, balancing civilian casualties vs. the value of the military targets they'd take out; then that question sort of answers itself.
If this alternative, then yes comingling your government and military infrastructure together to use civilians as human shields (a by the book war crime) makes the predictable civilian casualties that result the fault of Hamas.
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Shields implies that they would use them to block something. Their death means that they obviously weren't effective in that. You can only use something as a shield if it stops the enemy from doing that thing. The fact that they were still murdered falls at the feet of Israel. You know, as the people that dropped the weapons on their heads.
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You're disgusting, eff your 'human shield' story. It's like a white manager came up with those words as an excuse for genocide. Just like 'right to defend themselves' or 'but Hamas this or that...'
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What, like holding them up to block missile strikes that are leveling neighborhoods?
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Duct taped to both hands for dexterity
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Duct taped to both hands for dexterity bonus
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Shields and swords, there's child soldiers too. And I'd be damned if they don't count a dead 16 year old with an AK as a poor innocent baby that got murdered by Israel...
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Why should we trust a Ministry of Health in Gaza? Are they not a part of Hamas?
Edit: they even say later: “Save the Children is an independent, impartial organisation. With the ongoing complete siege of Gaza, journalists and international organisations are not able to get access to Gaza to verify independently and provide updated data on the impact of ongoing bombardment on the civilian population.”
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Wouldn't a good way to stop that be to stop the bombardment and let in people to take a full accurate tally? Israel would stop to do that if they cared about that number, and yet the bombs keep dropping.
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Wow not a single mention of the infants and children being held hostage in Gaza. Apparently they only care about saving some of the children
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Dude if you're triggered by them just 'counting' their dead, there's something wrong with you.
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Are you triggered by my comment where I was not triggered, just pointing out biased reporting?
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This is an article about children who are dead, not those still alive.
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Also shady that the number dead in Gaza comes from “The Ministry of Health in Gaza” aka Hamas controlled data.
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Maybe ALLOW other people in? It's almost like Israel has closed all borders and is actively killing journalists, oh wait, blackout etc... Oh wait, they DID?
Until they do, you have no other option than to believe them. Why not? Because it serves you to think that way and push people online to automatically dismiss and disbelieve everything that's happening right now.
I could also start making the case that I don't believe Israel lost so 1400 people, just to annoy you. But I won't, because they died and the least I can do is acknowledge that.
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You know Palestine isn't some hidden shadowy back woods no one can see? There are aids groups there, Doctors Without Borders, journalists, other experts. They don't have a magical authoritarian lock on information. You can see the bodies.
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They published the ID numbers of those who they claim are dead. It will be possible to prove/disprove it in time. It's not like they are throwing out a number without any backing.
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