London set for massive pro-Palestinian protest demanding Gaza ceasefire

How the hell can we ignore the mindless murdering of innocent families. This is not war it is the genocide that has been planned for a long time
- Tigray, West Papua, Oromia, Nagorno-Karabakh, Western Sahara, Ituri, Xinjiang...
  But that does not mean we should be silent on this latest. Really, we should be letting our representatives know we protest all of these things.
  
  And continuous violence/genocide in Tigray region of Ethiopia. No one mass-protests those in NY, London or Berlin...
- I don't think that things are black and white here. But I have to agree a little.
  Israel did become a nationalistic autocracy and has deeply corrupt leadership. Still, not doing anything when they were attacked on the scale Hamas recently did, would be just stupid.
  The problem is that they should have kept the civilian casualties to minimum. Ideally under the amount of Israelis that died tho deflate grudges over time and show some degree of good will.
  Then again Hamas has never shown such incentive. And differentiating between Palestine civilians and Hamas collaborators or members is not an easy binary task.
  
  The problem is that they should have kept the civilian casualties to minimum
  If they're not trying to keep civilian casualties at a minimum, then why are so few Gazans dead considering the amount of ordinance at play?
  We know why so few Israelis are dead, considering comparable amounts of firepower, but Gaza does not have the Iron Dome.
  I'd their bombing was indiscriminate, surely they'd have killed more people, yeah? Do you think they're just really inept, or do you think perhaps they might actually be trying not to kill civilians, and that's just hard given the geography of the theater?
- I think Israel is doing exactly the opposite of ignoring the mindless murdering of their innocent families.
  
  So if terrorist government A kills civilians, it's okay for murderous government B to take revenge by killing more civilians? Why does it matter where these people live, the only thing that matters is to stop killing them, depriving them of their freedoms and rights and hey, maybe even try to give them a happy life?
  
  Youcve counted and compared the deaths of Israelis to Palestinians, plus considered the Palestinian children locked up with no rights or appeals etc. for at least 3 generations?
- You mean Hamas attack on Israeli citizens right? Just to clarify
  
  You mean you ignore the atrocities, apartheid and land theft that built up to this? The palestinians just naturally and gave up their homes and rights for a few generations?
- This is not war it is the genocide that has been planned for a long time
  What's your opinion on why Israel is so bad at actually achieving genocide?
  
  I mean take a look at this shit. Does this look like failing to you?

Israel is deliberately mass.murdering civilians and flattening cities. They did the same thing during their war in Lebanon in 2006 - levelling urban areas like Dahiyeh to cause disproportionate damage as a deterrent. I've read that they've dropped the equivalents of 33 tons of explosives for every square kilometre of Gaza. To inflict this on one of the densest urban areas on earth on a civilian population is pure evil.
- Hamas doesn't stop murdering innocent civilians, deliberately targets civilians and avoids military targets, and then hides behind civilians.
  Israel needs to eradicate Hamas, but can't do so as Hamas hides behind civilians. Options are to allow Hamas to butcher the innocent, or go after Hamas with civilian casualties.
  I don't like it, but the extermination of Hamas is necessary. The Gaza civilians are in a terrible position if they withdraw their support of Hamas, Hamas will just execute them. It's shitty, and terrible, but this is all on Hamas and only highlights the need for their removal.
  
  Hamas hides behind civilians, yes. They doesn't make killing the civilians right. It makes both sides wrong. Hamas is a terrorist organisation. This is not a war as the west bank doesn't have an army. Israel prevent them having legitimacy as a country. One consequence of this is paramilitary organisations.
  When a terrorist takes hostages, we don't bomb the hostages to get them out. We kill the terrorists if possible and try to free the hostages.
  
  Israel needs to eradicate Hamas, Hamas needs to eradicate Israel. They can't both be right, thus, it can only be that both are wrong.
  
  This is "war on terror" levels of idiocy.
- Was it evil also to bomb and flatten Berlin and the rest of Germany at the end of WW2?
  If you are British or American, how do you feel about that?
  
  Back then it wasn't known that it's not an effective strategy, Germany's reaction to those bombings pretty much set the precedent for it becoming a war crime.
  And from a German perspective: We started it. And did way worse, e.g. bombing Polish cities with the explicit goal to cause maximal casualties in predominantly Jewish quarters. The allies, meanwhile, did not try to maximise casualties or anything like that but tried to make as many people as possible homeless, in an attempt to lower economic output, gum up the system, etc. Generally speaking, it didn't work. Have a Kraut video for a lot more context.
  And no such thing could possibly be the goal in Gaza as Gaza already doesn't have an economy. Other possible justifications, such as "have lower overall casualties" (see e.g. bombing Dresden vs. slogging through it like slogging through Budapest) don't apply because Hamas is not going to surrender and are way more erm entunnelled. To get them out of there you have to get in there. Or maybe pour concrete in all exits you can find? That'd have my blessings.
  Furthermore: As a German Zionist I'd rather Israel didn't slide into complete inhumanity, and further into fascism, thank you. (Ben-Gvir is minister so they're already half-way there, also, there doesn't seem to be much opposition against collective punishment). It's not exactly a thing you wish on a country: It's pretty much the worst calamity that can befall a country.
  
  @Project2501
  Was it evil also to bomb and flatten Berlin and the rest of Germany at the end of WW2?
  Yes. Reckless bombing of civilians is always evil.
  I'm always flabbergasted when people bring up other heinously awful things as if it's some kind of gotcha.
  
  Yes, and add Hiroshima and Nagasaki on that list too.

- What about a cease-fire's particularly pro-hamas? Cease-fire means both directions.
  
  A ceasefire where Hamas gets to keep their hostages is a huge Hamas victory. Advocating for something which gives Hamas a huge victory will be interpreted by some as support for Hamas.
  These demonstrations are full of Palestinian flags, without an Israeli one in sight. It's hard to argue against them being partisan
  
  What's the last cease fire that wasn't broken by regular rocket fire from Gaza?
  
  The Hamas active members can have time to hide and reset for another attack if there is a cease fire. They'll refortify the hospitals and schools they use to hide, as well as gather civilans for shields. They can set up booby traps for a ground invasion into Gaza.
  
  Terrorists come kill your family. You call the police, and someone replies "there's been enough violence." Meanwhile the terrorists continue to advocate for killing your extended family as well as numerous other families, and you know these threats are credible because they continue trying
  How sensible is that, to you?
  
  What you want to do is drive hamas out and destroy and fill all the tunnels they made. Then when you start letting people.back in you try and filter out any hamas or pro hamas people. It be kinda like of the usa had a working southern border... or like how the usa and Canada birder works
- On lemmy they're called communities.
  Also calling for a ceasefire is not a "pro-Hamas" position. It feels like you're showing bias here more than anyone else. The Independent is also a large and well respected news outfit, and while many such publications have a lot of opinion pieces that are basically blog posts, this isn't one of them and is in traditional news format - they're reporting on a planned protest likely to be attended by a considerable number.
- So every defender of human rights is pro-Hamas according to your twisted logic.
  Last night the families released a statement calling the intense bombing on Friday "the worst of all nights", due to the uncertainty of the safety of their loved ones during IDF strikes.
  And guess what, people on the other side of the fence are saying it, now imagine going through this personally with all your family. Not able to reach your loved ones, without food, Internet, or electricity. I am sure if you go through this hell you would change your tune
  
  Generally you use the most firepower directly before committing ground troops, so yes I would expect last night to be the worst night.
- Welcome to Lemmy
  
  Meanwhile Reddit is the Israel propaganda machine, so I guess swings and roundabouts?
- I don't have an eye got usernames, but I did notice some really dodgy websites getting posted and people, as they are, just upvote on how much they like the article title rather than the contents ot even the surrouding information.

Great to see the world has some people of conscience.

This is the best summary I could come up with:
The United Nations said the move would prevent aid from reaching Palestinians trapped inside the bombarded territory, with Tel Aviv continuing to fire air strikes on the 25-mile stretch.
Elizabeth El-Nakla and her husband Maged travelled to the region before the Hamas attack on Israel on 7 October, in which Palestinian militants killed 1,400 people, and have been trapped since Tel Aviv’s subsequent retaliation.
“We support Israel’s right to self defence, in line with IHL (international humanitarian law), and continue to push for the protection of Palestinian civilians,” Mr Cleverly tweeted.
Ahead of the weekend, Kyle Gordon, who is leading the force’s command team, told a press briefing: “If somebody is calling for jihad specifically against Israel the officers will intervene, gather the information, report it back into us and we’ll be working with colleagues (from counter-terrorism) in relation to what the best course of action is.”
The head of the Crown Prosecution Service told The Daily Telegraph: “In any case arising from the current protests, there needs to be a very careful consideration of the actual circumstances in which something is said, or a flag is waved or actions are taken.”
The issue is causing splits in the Labour Party, with Imran Hussain, shadow minister for the New Deal For Working People and MP for Bradford East, breaking ranks to demand a ceasefire.
The original article contains 808 words, the summary contains 224 words. Saved 72%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

Straight from the horse's mouth.
- Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
  Straight from the horse's mouth
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- Promoting Piers Morgan in any shape or form is a bad thing.
  
  How does host being someone changes validity of what guest is saying and who the guest is?

Yes, ceasefire needs to come asap. Obviously under the conditions that as many Israeli hostages have to be returned and Hamas must be removed.

love to see it

London is the fair town for terrorists worldwide.

dunno what they're expecting Britain to do.
- As a permanent member of the UN Security Council the UK can call for a ceasefire and the release of all hostages.
  
  We could, but we won't. Have you seen who's currently in charge of our country? Even if Starmer gets into power, no ceasefire will be called for.
  Our country has a vested interest and lots of money invested in Israel, same as the US.
  
  And how does the UN/Israel punish Hamas for the hundreds of civilians that were massacred on the day?
- Stopping any support for isrel and pushing for others to do so as well would help. Or at least send humanitarian aid to gaza.
  
  Unfortunately most humanitarian aid ends up in Hamas' hands

how is a protest march in a city, on an island, in a different continent going to do anything in Gaza?
- Are you asking how protest works in general? The place doesn't matter much. Do you want them to protest in gaza? They can't go there
- The UK is one of Israel's strongest supporters after the US, so pressure from them can do a lot.
  
  why would the UK government care what it's citizens want? I suppose there's a first time for everything but I rather suspect that it wont be this time
- Sometimes, solidary is better than nothing when you feel powerless.
- It's not, but generally in democracies, people protest to let their own government and their fellow citizens know how they feel about an issue.
  When the issue is domestic, they are generally seeking a policy change.
  When the issue is foriegn, they usually hope to influence their own country's foriegn policy stance/actions on that issue.
- Because Hamas tactics include an information war to win sympathies.
- Good question, popular opinion demonstrated against Apartheid and collective punishment gets democratic governments to enforce sanctions, and put economic pressure on the violating country. This is how south african apartheid ended, through slow economic and sanction pressure.
- With a lot of effort, we can hope to make London as bad as Gaza?