Petition Calls on Microsoft to Extend Windows 10 Support

No. Stop.
This is the definition of interrupting your enemy when they're making a mistake.
Let them kill windows 10, I have atleast 5 friends ready to switch to linux when Windows 10 hits EOL.
- As a gamer, proton/lutris still isn't quite to the point that I am ready to make the jump. It's very close though and I'm going to make the switch probably in the next 24 months.
  
  Typically, imo, most people who aren't ready to jump to Linux are there because their top couple of games are ruled by arrogant devs/publishers who balk at the idea of ticking an "enable proton compatibility" checkbox with their anticheat.
  From what I've seen Proton has hit a quality of compatibility that the games will just run, and typically better than Windows. If it doesn't run it's usually because it's too new and proton needs a patch, or the devs/publishers did the aforementioned "no, i won't tick the checkbox, it's too hard." bullshit.
  Basically, if your waiting on a game to be supported for proton, it may need to wait until Linux adoption hits around 20 percent before the devs/publishers get that bullshit idea out of their head.
  
  Are you kidding? I made the jump a month ago and get better performance across the board gaming with proton/lutris than I did with windows.
- I have Linux on all my machines except one crappy old laptop that had Windows 10. When they EOL Win10, I'll have to buy another one like that for those rare occasions when you need to run something that just won't work in Linux.
- Yeah but i still need something windows to stick in my vm.
- you're a toxic optimist beyond saving if you think any of this
  
  I'm no fool. I know Linux isn't going to hit 100% desktop marketshare the instant windows 10 goes EOL.
  But I do know many people who are willing to make the switch rather than to go to Windows 11.
  Windows has been bleeding desktop marketshare for years. They are at a far cry from their 80% of the early 2000s.

Based on my conversations with my clients, it seems like the 2025 date is going to result in the greatest Linuxing of all time.
- as an avid multi-decades linux desktop user who has worked at a company with people in it before, i believe there is no way in fuck that this is true.
  
  Yeah, I work in industrial automation and I don't see how it could be possible
  
  You’re right in that this isn’t true of your typical working folks who use Microsoft 365, Sharepoint, or specialized design software.
  There are a lot of folks who just use their computer for a web browser. When you tell them that their hardware, some of which is as young as 2017, will lock them out of security updates in two years, they’re pretty receptive to alternatives like ChromeOS or Linux.
  For some of the older population, the simplicity of such options is a huge perk.
- The year of the Linux desktop is upon us. The prophecy has been foretold by the sages of the code. A new dawn is on the horizon. A new era of freedom an power approaches as more and more disks are cleansed by the mighty forces set free by Stallmann and Torvalds. No more shall the users be enslaved by proprietary software and restrictive licenses.
  The Year of the Linux Desktop is upon us, and nothing can stop it.

Everyone knows Microsoft OSs are tick-tock anyway. The failed 11 will be superseded by a well received 12, and the cycle will continue. Can’t kill 10 until 12 is fully accepted. Like 10 and 7 before it.
- I find this funny as I remember the first 5 years of Windows 10 be like everyone hates it because it's not Windows 7
  
  Well it was replacing the tile-silliness of Windows 8, any OS that booted would receive some goodwill in comparison
- I wouldn't count on that, if the rumor mill of windows 12 being a subscription model ends up true, it will be recieved far worse than 11 did.
  
  This was never a thing. Someone took a blurb said by someone on a call, and ran with it. No one fact checked, no one looked at context. At least not until after the articles were out.
  The subscription stuff has always been on the enterprise side. Hell, it’s available right now and you don’t see it on the consumer side.
  In fact, 11 doesn’t even require activation. You can just install it, never activate, and continue to use it perpetually. How would the next step in their movement away from requiring consumer purchase be to charge monthly for access? Makes no damn sense right out the gate.
  
  There's been articles saying that's disproven and it's so far out I don't get why people are even talking about it at all yet really.
  Editing to add the following link:
  https://www.windowslatest.com/2023/10/16/no-windows-12-is-a-free-upgrade-and-wont-require-a-subscription/
- before 10, on 8.1 everyone was the same with 10, that it will be the next Vista, by the same logic that XP was OK, Vista was NOK, 7 was OK, 8 was shit, 8.1 was OK...
  don't forget, for several years, 10 was unuseable and lots of people - including me was not willing to use it.
  for a few years, 11 will be the devil but soonly enough the migration will happen - it has to, if someone needs Windows...
  
  10 became usable when they walked back most feature changes and made it closer to 7. I had completed blocked out the awful start menu at 10 launch.
- failed 11
  By what metric (other than clickbaity tech publication headlines)?
  Every Windows release, even including “the good ones”, my repair shop has been inundated with requests to go back or post-upgrade troubleshooting work.
  We’ve had none of that since 11’s release. The only botched upgrades were due to underlying hardware conditions and everyone else has been neutral at worst.
  
  Have any of the other relases had a hardware requirement that even 3 year old PCs don't meet? I just built my PC in 2020 and win11 is telling me I can't upgrade because of my basically new hardware...
  My bet is on many many people simply can't upgrade.
- I actually like 11 compared to 10 (so far as I like Windows in the first place - I only use it on my work-provided computer, Linux everywhere else). People rightly complain about the advertising and tracking for why they won't upgrade but doesn't 10 have that too?
  
  I still have windows 10 on my work computer which is the only windows device I have, and it is riddled with advertisements, especially the start menu

Man, I'm just going to say it... I'm sick of all the Linux people saying it's the solution to all problems in computing. Can we not talk about anything else here on Lemmy? This article is about Windows.
- I mean, this is platform which runs on Linux and embodies the same spirit which drives Linux forward - the collaborative power of opensource software. Is shouldn't come as a surprise that there's a heavy skew of Linux and opensource enthusiasts here. If you're sick of all the Linux talk here, feel free to move to a propriety forum, perhaps one with a red alien logo.
  This article is about Windows.
  The article is about Window 10 becoming EOL, and given how many people are put off by Windows 11, suggesting Linux as an alternative is a reasonable comment, IMO. Feel free to argue otherwise if you feel so strong against it.
- 100%. I'm very happy for the people in the Linux community who have collectively supported a free and open source operating system that is effectively as good or better than the two leading OSs with massive billion dollar corporations behind them. That's unfathomably impressive, deserving of all this praise and, of course, should have wider adoption.
  However
  I've spent my entire life on Windows, my professional career on Mac OS, and the last dozen or so years with my phones running Android. I absolutely do not have the patience and free time to become fluent in another fucking operating system. And I've tried. On at least two occasions, I've attempted to run a media server on Linux. The experience was utterly fucking miserable and made me want to give up on technology and live in the woods. I have no doubt that I'd have a different outcome with better resources or more time to learn properly, but I'm done. Hopefully the successes of Linux drive change for the better in the other two. Linux doesn't need 100% adoption to make an impact on the way Microsoft and Apple develop their own systems.
  
  You do know that Android is Linux right?
- Photoshop alone is worth keeping a windows or OSX device around.
  
  You just need to realize that Adobe doesn't release their stuff on Linux, not because it doesn't allow them to, but Linux desktop market share is too small.
  It's a chicken and egg problem. Once Adobe would release their stuff, magically there would be a massive movement to improve HDR support, color accuracy etc.
  And you need to realize Microsoft achieved such a giant market share thanks to illegal monopolistic practices in 90s, that still have huge impacts today.
  
  That’s an Adobe problem
  If the audience moves to Linux then it will follow
  
  Just an FYI, Photoshop runs reasonably well under Wine now, if you follow this guide: https://github.com/LinSoftWin/Photoshop-CC2022-Linux
- Well, someone could develop a new OS or a mainstream-friendly fork of Plan 9. The problem is literally over-reliance on privately-owned, proprietary software during an era where enshitification is the norm. GNU/Linux is the most mainstream-friendly OS that is not* proprietary.
  *Some bits that are regularly used are obviously proprietary. See: RHEL
- So brave
- Sorry but the answer is Linux. It's got great support for devices and is open source. If adobe and a few other companies would port their software for Linux there'd honestly be no reason to use Windows or Mac except for a few that prefer it.
  If bsd was more popular than the answer would be that. We just need to have an open source OS as the norm
  
  Mac is BSD
- I'm strong on the Linux side and just swapped over my last PC from Windows. Long time it's been needing it.
  But I completely agree with you. 95% of consumers would most likely have difficulty just getting it installed. Basic usage, maybe a greater number could be fine using it but once something goes wrong, no one wants to use the terminal.
  And this is also a Windows thread.
- The boner people have on this platform for Linux is frightening. We get it. You use an obscure OS. Congrats.
  
  I use it and I still hate how 90% of this website devolves into Linux discussions.

As someone once told , windows 10 would be that last version of windows.(I like to keep it that way , at least for me😅).
- That someone was Microsoft 😆.

Don't really care. Once this PC can't run Windows 10 anymore, it's getting Mint.
I've recently come to realize all of the games I actually like to play, run just fine on Linux. YMMV, of course.
- My next computer will be Mint and open source programs.
- I know you said don't even start, but I'm curious lol.
  I've used blender a lot, I've never used 3DS Max though. What would you say are the biggest issues with Blender in your scenario?
  
  Given the amount of progress on getting 3D games to work well under wine/proton lately, I wonder if it's possible/practical to run 3ds Max under it yet? The only test results I can find for it are ancient.

I remember Microsoft saying that Windows 10 would be the last version they would ever release and everything moving forward would just be iteration and improvement. Knew that was a lie immediately.
- Microsoft never said that. Its a myth that refuses to die. A single developer on a conference mentioned something as a sidenote, the press misinterpreted it and the internet took it and ran with it.
  
  Do you have a source for that? I'd love to read how that myth came about, I'm serious I'm not doubting you
- Windows 11 is just Windows 10 23H2. It's just a number. Nothing stops MS from dropping support for older processor in an update for Windows 10.

My system significantly exceeds all the performance requirements for Win11, but it doesn't have the Trusted Platform Module 2.0...and therefore cannot run Windows 11. It's disappointing that my system can run circles around a lot of newer devices but can't upgrade because it's running on an older motherboard. It's dumb that Microsoft made TPM 2.0 a deal-breaking requirement for Win11.
- Apparently you can get around that with a registry hack that tells the installer the machine has it. Not that I’d want windows 11 anyway…
  
  IIRC if you use Rufus to make your installer USB it has a preset for Win11 with no TPM. Again, not that you'd want to go out of your way to install it but doing it that way is pretty seamless.
- Their pals in the hardware industry say thanks for the ewaste.
- I'm curious what CPU you have that is on the supported list but doesn't support TPM 2.0 in firmware. Or are you just assuming the CPU support list is decided by TPM 2.0 availability?
  Because most of the CPU support list is actually about hardware-accelerated virtualization features like MBEC/GMET and the performance penalties of having to emulate them when not present -- up to 40% performance loss using kernel virtualization without MBEC/GMET in particular.
  
  assuming the CPU support list is decided by TPM 2.0 availability
  This was me before I checked the compatibility app. Windows never bothered me with Windows11 update so I thought It didn't have TPM2.0+. I got curious and used the compatibility checker.
  The laptop had TPM 2.1, but CPU is not compatible. oh well…
  
  Laptop. He has a laptop. But, even if he had a TPM on a higher end Intel 6th and 7th gen Core i7, Win11 still wouldn't install without workaround.
- You can just disable that requirement with Rufus

We had petitions for everything, Windows Phone, you name it a decade ago. That won’t do jack shit unless it somehow comes with some large sum of money (how much? who knows) for Microsoft or some bean counter decides “hmm, maybe the environment shouldn’t take another for the team” and gets the company to change course before they are canned.
In the meantime, let’s continue to plot our off-ramps.

Never mind the millions of PCs that don’t want to downgrade to this garbage.

A nonprofit group has sent a petition to Microsoft, urging it to extend the end-of-support date for Windows 10 beyond 2025 to prevent “the junking” of millions of PCs.
"junking". Install linux on it you mugs!
- Yup, putting this date on my calendar as the last time I'll own a Windows machine.

I've been using Windows 11 for a while now and honestly I don't understand the hate. Who needs personalized functionality? Who needs to be able to move their bar from screen to screen? I do. I'm moving to Linux.

I'm not buying another windows OS.
- It's a free upgrade
  
  Nah, I'm sticking with Win10. I wish I could've stayed with Win7. I have a huge backlog of games that will play great on Win10. Enough to last me for years (thanks steam sales.) And to be honest, I didn't pay anything for my current Win os. I'm just tired of Microsoft drastically changing the os when they shouldn't.

I use Ubuntu for pretty much everything, but I would prefer to use 10 in the unfortunate event that I have to boot into Windows.

Not supporting intel 7th gen and back seemed pretty strong handed, even now they're still decent processors.
And I know there are work-arounds but not for the average consumer

Trouble is, to upgrade I'd need to do a mobo upgrade, and I'm not doing another mobo upgrade any time soon.
Windows 10 wasn't great compared to 7, but I bit the bullet on that one because security updates are essential these days, and my workplace is microsoft-centric.
Windows 10s death is going to force a lot of poorer folks to consider alternatives - and let's be honest, it's going to be Linux. The majority of hardware out there in the world can't run 11, let alone a proposed 12.
- Windows 10s death is going to force a lot of poorer folks to consider alternatives - and let’s be honest, it’s going to be Linux. The majority of hardware out there in the world can’t run 11, let alone a proposed 12.
  For the more technically strong people, I can see that happening but I very much doubt the general public would do that. They probably don't even know what Linux is.
  
  Yeah less savvy people are going to do what they always do, just keep running their old system but now with even more vulnerabilities due to lack of security update availability.
  My dad recently asked me to help with his laptop, which turned out to be running windows xp.
  After a lot of hair pulliing I got it kind of working but am gonna give him an old windows 10 (upgraded from 7) laptop, but he's probably going to be on that indefinitely.
  
  We know how this is going to end up: many people with obsolete Windows 10 machines full of malware. Botnets are going to live it.
  
  You make a good point - it wouldn't be a landslide since Linux does form a comparatively small share of the market. However, with the hardware gating, might we not see more companies shifting, which could at least boost public knowledge of Linux?

The Windows XP/Vista story repeated to the last letter, damn
Windows 11 will be relegated to a footnote in Wikipedia
- At least Vista wasn't Millennium, I had to Photoshop on that for nearly two years and regularly had to reboot during the workday.
  
  They didn't call it Windows Meh for nothing

"No"
\ - MS

Hopefully by 2025 gaming in Linux will be greatly improved even more. Until then I'll keep using Windows 10 and I'll start saving for an AMD card
- I join you on this. Nvidia support in Linux is shitty. I kept getting crash with it and proton on GPU intensives games. And you see the games running on and flawlessly... I regret picking a Nvidia card.
  
  I've been using Nvidia cards for decades. They work perfectly fine and I'm able to play without a hitch. Sorry to hear about your experience but it's not the norm.
- Guessing amd has better Linux support? Been running Linux for a while on my laptop but my gaming rig has been a windows strong hold.
  
  I was asking a genuine question not trolling, if it's true I'll get an AMD card next!

Because petitioning a company works, yeah

Well, looks like it may be time to try and see what Linux is all about. Any good recommendations for a relatively Out of the Box experience?
I mostly just browse the web and play games (both single player and multiplayer, mostly AAA but also the occasional indie). On occasion, I also like to do some video editing in Davinci Resolve.
- Linux Mint in the Cinnamon flavor is one of the most beginner-friendly and also has a desktop very similar to Windows.
- Go with Pop!_OS
  Very user-friendly and has a straightforward installation process, also comes with strong NVIDIA graphics driver support out-of-the-box if you are using nvidia gpu. Another advantage is the Pop!_Shop, which is akin to an app store and makes software installation easy for newcomers. The GNOME-based user interface is also intuitive and somewhat similar to Windows, easing the transition.
  
  I'm experimenting with Pop_OS on a laptop as my daily driver after playing with different distros in VM environments over the years. There's definitely a learning curve, but so far so good.
- Been a minute since I used unix/Linux, but "Mint" always had a windows-like experience if you just need a starter distro. Also free.
- Garuda Linux. It's based on Arch but has some extra features to make gaming and graphics setup easier. It also uses an installer so it's pretty easy to setup.
- I've been using Nobara after messing with Manjaro, and it's been my go-to distro across multiple computers now.
  Handles games incredibly well, built in fixes for Resolve, rock solid otherwise. It's based on Fedora so very well supported on that front as well.
- Everyone will give you a different answer and honestly it's all Linux, just find one that clicks with you and your workflow.
  A couple recommendations are
  fedora (workstation or KDE spin)
  Open suse
  Pop_OS
  Vanilla OS (once 2.0 comes out of beta)
  I've used all of these and they're all decent. I ended up sticking with fedora just because I had to tweak it the least to get my workflow how I want it.

I'll stick to XP, 7 and 10 in my VMs then.
- you're sticking to them because they're going to drop support for them?
  
  That, testing and masochism.
- I wish I could've stayed on Win2000 Pro. I got it from my brother. XP and 7 were awesome too. I've seen it posted elsewhere, but Microsoft would put out a crap os every other version. Remember win millennium edition? Vista was an abomination.

I would switch to Linux anyway. Does any one knows if SOLIDWORKS and Rhino can work in Linux? I know Maya can, and I only use that as a pipeline to convert NURBS to polygon whenever it is needed.
Krita should get better selection tool for foreground extraction, and it would be very easy to forget Affinity/PS as filters are easier to make with C++ there. No plans to use GIMP, so don't bring it up.

I'd use 11 if my hardware was supported!
Also listen to all these comments about how "hurrr Linux desktop soon brother" No, it fucking isn't. Burden of usage is too heavy for most people. You know what will happen though? People will buy more devices that use Linux over Windows, like the Steam Deck. The Steam Deck made Microsoft and other vendors outright PANIC and it accounts for a fraction of users.

It has already long support if you're not a sheep and use debloated ltsb..

Screw MS. Get a Mac, or use Linux.
- Screw MS, go Mac? Why go from questionable closed source software to questionable closed software and hardware?
  
  I also said Linux (my personal preference since … way back).
  
  At least Mac's are a user-centric experience. You pay an absurd premium for pretty good-but-overpriced hardware and the software is designed to give you a good experience with limited choices. Windows actively antagonizes users with ads while charging users for the pleasure, and now they want to add a subscription fee!
  What even is the value proposition for Windows these days beyond "it's what you're used to". And even that is less true than ever.

I thought people hated windows update? Now they want more windows update?