Kick tankies out of 196
Kick tankies out of 196
Remember kids, Tankies wants to undermine democracy - same as facists.
739 comments
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Just like fascists, tankies could theoretically hang out here without getting the boot. It's just that genocide denying authoritarians cannot be tolerated in a tolerant, democratic society. The reason tankies and fascists get the boot is because they can't resist trying to bully and intimidate those that find their views abhorrent. They simply can't resist being terrible.
They're cultists with views that can't stand up to scrutiny, so they need use other tactics to spread their shit and gain power. They use the real downsides and weaknesses of democracy to argue we need an even worse system. Then they argue you actually hold the worst views of their enemies, even though they usually support exactly the same things that make those enemies bad. Tankies claim you're a free-market liberal for opposing them, when the countries they support are state capitalists. Fascists claim you're against freedom of speech, while they are always trying to ban ideas they hate. Some of them are misguided and believe their own lies, but others are just awful people.
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Tankies traditionally are associated with communists, but today's tankies (even those that call themselves communists) are really after authoritarianism than communism, and given the history of the name (that they supported using tracks on civilians). I don't think they're is much difference between current communists and current fascists, both groups seem to support authoritarianism and feels like term "tankies" fits both of them well.
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I learned about a week ago why they are the way they are. See the soviet union was the closest in their mind the world has ever come to communism, so even though it's fallen into fascist oligarchy, they still hold hope that the anticommunist putin is going to rise up and reestablish global communism once more. The only problem with that is that... well Russia doesn't want communism. This is their playbook Yeah, that doesn't look socialist, that looks like "we tried communism it didn't work so lets do fascism this time" so they end up throwing their support towards red flavored fascism since it's the best chance (in their minds) at getting global communism. When the alternative is an american nazi world order, or tiny countries with no power, you don't really have much choice.
But here's something I want every single one of you to realize having read all of that: Even the most fascist redfash still would have killed the nazis. The same cannot be said for the average (in-power) liberal today. Anticommunism is always pro-fascism. Never let your critiques of the left turn into support for the right.
EDIT: Case in point, the person i'm responding to is never going to see this post because they're on a nazi bar instance that banned me.
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I hate it when threads like this make me have to repeatedly post the mainstream Jewish holocaust historian "stop conflating fascism and communism" article
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Yes, when it comes to the axis from authoritarian to anarchist. Things all tend to narrow in to a single point at either end. In regards to authoritarians, it's all about the hierarchy and holding power for themselves. They don't give a shit what form of government sits under that. When it comes to anarchists and libertarians, no government other than a largely flat form of socialism is acceptable. Simply because they are focused on freedoms both individual and social. And large monolithic hierarchies tend to get in the way of that.
And when I use the term libertarian I of course mean actual libertarians. Not temporarily embarrassed Republicans, or teenage capitalists. The easiest test to find out whether someone might accidentally be a libertarian or not. Is to find out if they belong to the Libertarian party, or ever plan to vote for their candidates. No one who would ever do that could ever be a libertarian lol
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It's called campism and it's dumb teenager stuff.
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Hexbear disliked that
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I think we should consider the feelings of Hexbear users when posting or commenting.
If you think they'll dislike it, it's probably a good post.
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Hexbear REALLY dislikes my compilation of their queerphobia at !dronerights@lemm.ee
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Good
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they don't have the ability to dislike, they removed the downvotes (i think) lmao
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who is hexbear
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A website on the fediverse for transphobic stalinists
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These threads are odd to me, considering how many people call all communists tankies. The word seems to be used by anarchists, conservatives, communists, anti-communists, and more, and every person has a slightly different definition.
Half the people here could consider the other half to be the tankies everyone is mad at.
To be clear this isn't me saying "be nice to the tankies" this is me saying "the overuse of this word is confusing the shit out of me."
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I'm an anarchist, we don't call anybody tankies. Tankies is a term coming from the UK i think the 80s some eastern european nation was taken over by the USSR and some Brittish came out in support of it. So they were called tankies.
These political fighting words need to be layed to rest. Communists hate me as much as anybody else but I'd rather engage on the idea level instead of ad hominem attacks and name calling.
I suspect this whole tankie thing might be a coordinated propaganda campaign geared at discrediting communists and at the same time creating tension between them and other leftits. I suspect this as this whole infighting over small differences doesn't lead to a victory for the left but effectively disables and neutralizes it.
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It became confusing when liberals learnt of the word - now they hurl the word at anyone who dares to remind them that being pro-capitalist is still a right-wing thing to be.
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Capital co-opting and perversing anticapitalist rhetoric to its own benefit, in my Lemmy? It's more likely than you think.
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Anybody left that is not libertarian or social democrat from what I've seen tbh. And often weaponised.
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Maybe it's just the circles I run in, but I understand "tankie" to mean leftists who think Soviet/Maoist/vanguard-party styles of Communist revolution/rule were good, actually, to the point of denying any bad things they did/do as "Western propaganda".
Given the red scare in the US, our ability as a whole to use any sort of leftist political labels accurately across the population is basically non-existent, so I do understand the frustration by both tankies and non-tankie leftists about how the term gets used lately, especially in produce circles on social media.
But again maybe that's just me. I don't know if I would consider myself a communist, but I do consider myself as a yet undetermined variety of socialist, if that helps at all.
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...because none of those groups are Tankies and they are all unified against Tankies.
Tankies aren't socialists or communists (not that those two things are the same either). They are the purist ideologues of communism, where compromise is defeat. Rampant in telling you why you're wrong, and why only the purest form of communism will bring nirvana. All without understanding the consequences of what they propose.
Even the Communists don't want them on their side.
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I think you kinda missed my point. Sure, socialists and communists don't like tankies, but conservatives think the socialists and communists who don't like tankies are tankies. They aren't "unified against tankies", they don't agree who, what, and where "tankies" are.
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Tankies aren’t socialists or communists (not that those two things are the same either). They are the purist ideologues of communism, where compromise is defeat.
They literally support a transitionary period and a capture of the bourgeois state for the interests of the proletariat instead of its immediate dissolution, compromise is the thing ultralefts criticize them for.
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Then there's folks like me who have no idea what the term means, you're not alone in your confusion.
Edit: thanks for all the replies folks! TIL
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Communists seem to be sad, pathetic people now. I thought ya'll had something, but you're all just a bunch of fractured apologists trying to get one over on each other.
Sad, ya'll actually had something going on at one point, now you're just irrelevant
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Based AF
Fuck tankies
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196 is one of the greatest
subscommunitiesya'll should be proud. Thank you for adding a little queer fun to my normal CIS life
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The guy needs a speech bubble that says "Stalin did nothing wr-"
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"We should all look up to Chi-"
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I mean when people give Stalin shit yet don't bat an eye at what Lenin did, I can safely assume they're going off cold war propaganda.
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Lenin had some legitimately good takes, e.g. that Stalin should, under no circumstance, ever be allowed to come to power. His analysis was also usually spot-on, but his solutions to things either hare-brained or naive, leading to, well, history. Or, put differently, on a scale from tragic hero to villain he's at least in the middle while Stalin is a straight-up villain.
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I think most of you need to worry way less about sounding sufficiently the "right kind" of leftist and focus more on promoting leftism through action. More than half the "tankie" discourse is, at best, a needless distraction from actual progress. Lose your buzzwords and stop the ideological purity pissing contest and actually put in the work in your communities instead, goddamn.
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Fuck tankies.
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instructions unclear-
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It's funny that everyone is up in arms about this post but the literal sticky post says no tankies
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Tankies can't read.
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I'm not against the hostility being shown towards tankies here... but it should be remembered that there are a lot of well-meaning and well-intentioned people who get caught up in the technocratic ideology tankies buy into. Let's face it... if you google anything about leftism you are more likely to end up reading about Marx and Engels than Bakunin or Goldman - and right-wing propaganda is as perfectly fine with conflating everything "leftist" with the technocratic (ie authoritarian) left as tankies themselves are.
If we are leaving some doors open for fascists and capitalists who turn against their programming, we should remember to do the same for tankies.
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As someone who's read Marx and lenin, and Bakunin and Goldman... not to mention kroptikin(god damn that guy bullshat his way through conquest of bread)
The anarchists always decry practical steps that are needed for the transition, but they have a poverty of ideas when it comes to propose better alternative solutions to the problems faced by actual revolutions. And frankly, reading their literature I understand why. They're still hung up on ideas and values and not material analysis much more than MLs. They're still trapped within liberal hegemonic thought though they are against liberal capitalism.
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The stupid part is that the third-way labor parties and social democrats are doing a much better job at socialism than any Leninist or Maoist tradition. But every leftist space on the internet seems to hate these "fake socialists" as much as anything else. That's really all the evidence I need that these people are more interested in revolution fetish fan service than anything resembling actual statecraft.
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The stupid part is that the third-way labor parties and social democrats are doing a much better job at socialism
Well... no, not really. It's not that leftists hate social democrats... every anarchist I've ever spoken to appreciates the effort of people like Bernie and AOC - it's just that we understand what they are allowed to do and what they aren't. The political establishment will allow them to protect capitalism from itself by restraining it's most obscene aspects it to a certain extent (and even such meagre self-protective measures are a bridge to far for the right-wing hivemind)... but that is all they could ever achieve.
Remember - no matter what the media hysterically screeches - the term socialism has a very hard and uncompromising meaning... a condition wherein the workers control the means of production. If it doesn't measure up to that or only pretends to measure up to that, we can't call it socialism with a straight face.
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Bakunin or Goldman
who are these people, i've only heard of marx and engels. Didn't they found the commie ideology?
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who are these people, i’ve only heard of marx and engels.
Yes, and this is why...
and right-wing propaganda is as perfectly fine with conflating everything “leftist” with the technocratic (ie authoritarian) left as tankies themselves are.
There are two sides to the left... and they are violently incompatible. You've never heard of that other left because both tankies, fascists and capitalists like pretending that there is only one.
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Eh this argues that we even have a democracy that is functional enough to undermine in the first place, and I reject that premise.
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Better than a single oligarch for sure.
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I’m not sure it’s that different. In place of a real personality, you get the country’s persona. With US foreign policy for example it matters little who leads because they are adhering to the persona. While the majority of Americans don’t want war, the US persona does. That results in the same thing (a population ruled by one idea set) just a hologram of person rather than an actual one.
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i wonder why this post about tankies is suddenly popular
sees top posts criticising israel and fascism
ah there it is
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what democracy?
Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence.
[...]
In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule — at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.
something like 70% of Americans want universal healthcare and yet it remains politically impossible.
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I swear almost every American election cycle, some weird word will start popping up everywhere. like how all the trump supporters started saying cuck out of nowhere in 2015-2016
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Tankie has been a thing for over half a century. The Soviets used tanks(from other countries) to invade and crush antisoviet revolutions/protests in Hungary and Czechoslovakia.
This was considered shocking for some communists and other leftists while some communists supported those actions. Those who supported this "intervention" were called tankies, in order to differentiate them from the non tank invasion supporting communists.
In Greece(my country), which was in the "West", this event caused the split of the greek communist party(KKE) into 2 separate parties, KKE(Moscow controlled tankies) and KKE "interior"(weak ass soy communists who cant stomach the use of tanks in order to create a better tomorrow).
KKE "interior" kinda eventually became SYRIZA which surprisingly won the elections in 2015(breaking the 2 party status quo). Then the EU decided that the greek people decided poorly and punished them. So when the greek people decided correctly(elected a right wing government), the EU rewarded them. Carrots and sticks make the world go around. Thats how you make a majority leftist country, into a right wing one.
PS Greek debt is as high as it has ever been but Greece issued negative interest bonds. Tell me again how is the economy supposed to work? Noone talks about the greek debt anymore, it's a non issue, Greece has been accepted into the EU's infinite money glitch scheme.
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Tankie has been a thing for over half a century.
Disingenuous in regards to their point.
"Cuckold" had been in use for a long time before it's cultural adoption in 2015 too. They weren't disputing the appropriate use the term, they were clearly commenting on the shift from appropriately-applied usage to the saturation within the cultural lexicon as a buzzword. Why is this thread full of disingenuous asides and non-sequiturs?
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This is more a lemmy thing. Tankie is an older word but like you dont usually run into stalinists in the wild too much. The Lemmy creators and one of the biggest instances when the site was still small was a communist one promoting not just like the ideal of communism but legit stalinism.
As a result there was a lot of weird very pro russia pro china pushback and whataboutisms on the platform in the early days before the number of non stalinist users drowned them out
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tarted saying cuck out of nowhere
You know they have been wanking of to cuck porn for decades... it was bubbling below the surface...
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the only tankie with rights
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who is they?
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lori petty from the movie tank girl which is amazing
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Tankies as well as fascists are imperialistic scum.
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Agree, but to me they're no different from any other genocide denying pieces of shit. If you are a NATO apologist that sees what happened to Iraq or what is currently happening to Gaza as any less abhorrent, you are just as bad as someone apologizing for Russia or the USSR.
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The economically motivated NATO intervention in Libya was justified with false claims of a genocide. This was the conclusion reached by the British parliament report. Now Libya is a war-torn failed state with open-air slave markets. That intervention was less than a decade after “Iraq has WMDs,” a lie that has killed over a million people. When we have all witnessed these events in our lifetimes, I think we should be a little skeptical when enemy states are vilified. I don’t know if public backlash could have prevented the intervention in Libya, but I hope we’ll at least try to prevent the next one.
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Do you have nothing better to post?
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I don't wanna be a tankie, but I want hot alt people to physically abuse me 😔
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Have you tried therapy and/or a mosh pit
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Instructions unclear, opened up therapy practice in a mosh pit. 7/10 would treat again.
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I still don't understand what a tankie is
Edit: From what I gathered, they're essentially authoritarian communists
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The type of "communist" that supports authoritarian, usually state capitalist regimes like the USSR, China, and the DPRK.
The lack of meaningful worker enfranchisement in any of those regimes should tell you all you need to know, really - they're red-coded fascist lunatics.
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@backhdlp the term was invented to describe those communists in the West who thought
Rákosi (a Hungarian Stalinist)[edit: whoever it was, there's a communist historian correcting me downthread] did nothing wrong when he and Kruschev sent military tanks into Hungary to force them to stay in the Soviet Union. That was in the 1950s. -
It seems to be commies getting angry at other commies, which seems very counterproductive
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Hakim has a good video about it https://youtu.be/LcJ5NrJtQ8g?si=Fgc2HTHJHd-pJvPC
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This might help https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie
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stalinists basically
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Hell yeah!
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Unfortunately, the only way to kick tankies out of 196 is to get 196 out of Lemmy. Because Lemmy is being developed by two tankies themselves, with a third one about to join. And because despite being defederated from hexbear and lemmygrad, lemmy.ml is still a free roam place for tankies from those two cesspool places. So, either defederate yourselves from lemmy.ml (nobody would do that), or fork lemmy into a new clean place (not impossible, but difficult to perform), or do as beehaw will do soon.
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So, either defederate yourselves from lemmy.ml (nobody would do that)
I mean, if push comes to shove why not? It’s not the “main instance” anymore, it’s only got twice the users of Hexbear. Around a third of .world. I don’t think defederating would be that bad of an idea if they get too oppressive.
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I feel like wanting to defederate from .ml is showing your whole ass for all to see. I get wanting to defed from hexbear and grad because they genuinely have problems that even I've personally ran up against, but ml? You just hate anything left of hilter if you have an issue with them.
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The issue with .ml isn't that they're tankies, it's that they have fully open registration and are huge. The whole instance is a massive vector for abuse that makes it effectively impossible to stop determined trolls if you're federated with them.
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Lemmy.ml is NOT defederated with lemmygrad.ml or hexbear.net
In fact, the lemmy.ml admins/devs are admin on lemmygrad.ml
Choose an instance that defederated with hexbear and lemmygrad and you won't see many tankies. Even if they post on Lemmy.ml you won't see it because that is how federation works.
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In fact, the lemmy.ml admins/devs are admin on lemmygrad.ml
Why do you think so? Can you prove it?
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I didn't try on any lemmy instance, but while I was on Kbin, I've posted some comments on lemmy.ml (worldnews, if I remember correctly). Nothing out of the ordinary. One tankie called me a nazi (I had to change my profile photo becuase of that), and other tankie called me a loser, having myself ADHD and ASD.
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If you don't mind, what is beehaw doing?
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So, either defederate yourselves from lemmy.ml (nobody would do that), or fork lemmy into a new clean place (not impossible, but difficult to perform)
How forking will help in any way?
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Wtf are tankies?
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Theoretically, they're authoritarian leftists. In reality, leftism has little to do with it. They glorify former communist authoritatian countries and are anti-west no matter what the west does. There are pro-russia tankies (Lemmygrad.ml) and pro-china tankies (hexbear.net), with some overlap between them.
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Calling them left at all is playing into their game of self-legitimacy at best or trying to delegitimize actually leftism at worst.
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Pretty sure those are run by APTs.
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The types of leftists that will defend any regime that opposes the US/the west, and say any ethical/human rights violations done by them are either necessary in the moment to fight capitalism or is just fake news. You usually find them celebrating China's government.
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“Tankie” is a term that was originally coined (ironically, by Marxist-Leninists themselves) to describe members of the CPGB (Communist Party of Great Britain) who justified the Soviet Union’s invasion of Hungary in 1956. It has since become a catch-all term used to describe (self-described) leftists that slavishly adhere to the propaganda of or justify the actions of authoritarian regimes that are (or are perceived to be) “socialist” such as China or (bizarrely enough) modern-day Russia.
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I can't thank you enough for this. I've been too afraid to ask what the labels all mean.
It's nice to get some clarity on these things sometimes. I'm just trying to live my best life over here and not step on anyone's freedoms... I'm not in the know enough to be familiar with all the parlance of the various movements, despite supporting many of them (mostly from the sidelines as a straight white male).
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Every time
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Waiting for an answer
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Authoritarian apologists that pretend to be communists. You can find them in the wild typically talking about how great and strong the Chinese government is and how evil and corrupt the "US Imperials" are.
Historically the term was used to describe communist members that defended the use of tanks against civilians during an uprising idln Hungary, hence the name.
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What is a Tanky?
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It's a pejorative term to describe authoritarian Chinese government apologists. Historically it was used to describe communist members that defended the use of tanks against civilians during a Hungary uprising.
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TIL. Thank you.
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Anyone to the left of you
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That's impossible, I shoved all those counter-revolutionaries into a ditch and ran them over with t-
Uh oh
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"Tankie" is a term that was originally coined (ironically, by Marxist-Leninists themselves) to describe members of the CPGB (Communist Party of Great Britain) who justified the Soviet Union's invasion of Hungary in 1956. It has since become a catch-all term used to describe (self-described) leftists that slavishly adhere to the propaganda of or justify the actions of authoritarian regimes that are (or are perceived to be) "socialist" such as China or (bizarrely enough) modern-day Russia.
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upvote required
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Rule.
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Since when are screwdrivers tankie symbols?
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The original says keep nazis out of punk. Skrewdriver is a neonazi band
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I mean, yes, but also Phillips screwdrivers can die in a fire
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They aren't. The meme is originally about Nazis.
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What is “196”?
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It was a meme community on Reddit, but I don't know the origin. Seems to have a lot of non-binary folks in here, so I'm still wondering why reddit thought it applied to me, but they had some good memes over there.
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It is a spinoff of 195. 195 had a rule where you had to post before leaving, and most of the posts were people pasting their clipboard, usually a screenshot. 196 is supposed to be similar I think but is mostly just people posting memes and has a specific subculture.
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Further down the rabbit hole… what’s “195”?
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Want to see the transphobia and homophobia that Lemmy tankies from Hexbear are getting up to? Check out !dronerights@lemm.ee (https://lemm.ee/c/DroneRights) to see their months long harassment of a single trans person for being nonbinary.
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What’s with the chaser username?
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what happened to your username https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/u/PM_ME_FAT_ENBIES ?
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You know how The Gamers hate it when the left shoves "politics" into media and by "politics" they mean women and queer people? Yeah, well someone on Blahaj said they hate "politics" and I said I hate reactionary scum like them. Ada took this as harassment because apparently she thinks it's okay to hate "politics"
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A-fucking-men, brother!
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Eliminate the state UwU
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Define tankie. I've seen that work be used in so many different contexts that it seems to have lost all meaning. This are word has been used to describe so many different things by people that don't know what it means that now it has lost all meaning.
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"The progress from an absolute to a limited monarchy, from a limited monarchy to a democracy, is a progress toward a true respect for the individual.... Is a democracy, such as we know it, the last improvement possible in government? Is it not possible to take a step further towards recognizing and organizing the rights of man? There will never be a really free and enlightened State until the State comes to recognize the individual as a higher and independent power, from which all its own power and authority are derived, and treats him accordingly"
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Whose quote is this?
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GPT 4 says:
That quote is from Henry David Thoreau's "Civil Disobedience". Thoreau was an American essayist, poet, and philosopher known for his writings on nature and his advocacy for civil disobedience against unjust laws. In "Civil Disobedience", he discusses the individual's responsibility to prioritize conscience over the dictates of laws and the role of the state in relation to the individual. The quote reflects his belief in the rights of the individual and his skepticism about the finality of democratic governance as we know it.
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your label is threatening labels I identify with. Not agreeing about actions and methods. My labels are the only true way to understand my views
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