Palestine-Israel Crisis Megathread

Everyone knows that the UN is a Hamas front. Providing the UN with water is akin to providing Hamas with the heads of babies.

I'm curious what disinformation you're talking about given what you quoted? And you implied that it is known, but why do you think said disinformation would be spread?

Also, there are no settlers in Gaza. Haven't been for around 18 years.

That and the outright censorship you see escalating all over the western world points to one thing - the massive failure of the western propaganda model itself.

Only Democracy* in the Middle East, bby!

*Rules and conditions may apply.

Here's the original article

https://www.timesofisrael.com/bill-floats-government-controlled-watchdog-that-could-levy-heavy-funds-on-outlets/

I dont see anything like what you're stating mentiond Please don't spread misinformation

I read the source article but I'm not seeing a reference to what you're quoting? It mentions that the government are planning to create an "independent" regulatory body that oversees media outlets and can issue them fines if they don't behave in a way that the "independent" body sees fit, i.e. what the current government thinks is right or wrong, but I didn't see anything about this being actual policy or anything mentioning hamas websites.

WTF?

The impression I had gotten from interviews (Al Jazeera, the Guardian, Haaretz) was that Israeli civilian police were there and exchanged fire with Hamas but that it was HOURS before they came across any IDF personnel. I've been focusing on this less as the time goes on and the catastrophic situation in Gaza gets worse and worse, so maybe further sources have come out regarding the Nova Festival.

Regardless I would like to see consequences to the people who authorized a festival so close to Gaza in the first place...

I had a frustrating conversation with one person around the "40 beheaded babies" claim. Snopes dug into the claim. The IDF never I think we'll never be able to verify that particular claim. The flip side is that in the end, a dead baby is a dead baby regardless of how it got that way. My objection is that facts matter, particularly with claims of particular brutality or when the situation is a powder keg.

Hamas has claimed that fighters were told to avoid harming or killing civilians.

I don't buy this for one minute. Not a minute. Palestinian civilian casualties are high because Hamas and other organizations operate from inside of neighborhoods as guerrilla forces. Israel has separate forces. You wouldn't get massive civilian casualties from Hamas targeting the IDF's bases. They can make all the claims they want, but it doesn't fit with the facts.

The likelihood Israel didn't know of the attack shrinks by the day.

I really wish I could have a permanent record of everything every liberal has ever said so I could easily demonstrate how full of shit they are in 10 to 20 years when they all collectively deny ever having supported Israel through the Palestinian genocide.

So far, it was only France that banned pro-Palestinean protests. But the French government is also far right, so it makes sense. Don't equate their fascism to the rest of Europe, please.

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

How Palestine became colonized.

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

mismanagement

When talking about the US, it's more often correct to assume malice rather than incompetence

What fucking help does Israel need for fucks sake.

The chance of a World War III happening is significantly higher by escalating the UA-RUS war than this. Palestine has no allies and they have been cornered for years. US just secures a clean genocide.

Can you elaborate on the helping as IT guys part?

Can you elaborate on how you’re helping as “IT guys” ?

I too am an “IT guy” and would be interested in learning how my skills could assist those in need.

Israel is doing a genocide

Bro wtf. The millions of people in Gaza are in danger, how does their individual citizenships matter when there is non-descriminative bombing over the urban areas as well as exit routes? Israelis even bombed and killed prisoners from Israel in Gaza

Are you trying to say that the Canadian citizens stuck in Gaza are somehow more special than the other citizens?

A number of top level comments are from hexbear and lemmygrad so maybe your instance has those blocked? That will affect how many comments you see.

lemmy.ca defederated from hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml, who are driving top-level comments on here. Since you can't see the top-level comments, you also can't see any discussion below.

I opposed lemmy.ca's decision to defederated from hexbear based on the perceived behaviour of hexbear users on other instances for exactly this reason: I think an instance's role is to police the actions of users posting to that instance, not to police their users' exposure to other instances.

It's being extremely heavily moderated. (Not just the defederation.) You can gather the political stance by what comments remain.

The trucks initially went in but initially backed out when Israel bombed the corridor again.

Isn't salty water worse than no water because of the dehydrating effects of salt?

Tl;dr Israel showed up and kicked Palestinians out, Palestinians want their land back. Ensue 80 years of complications

While many Palestinians do hate the Zionists and vice versa, framing the conflict as between two powers that hate each other for religious reasons or racist reasons or what have you is what leads to such terrible "Two religions fighting again for the billionth time!" analysis.

Israel is a modern colonial state. While most outright colonist countries are no longer around, Israel is the exception. One of the reasons why it's allowed to be the exception is because it's a stronghold for American interests in an incredibly important region - whoever controls the world's oil supply, controls everything that depends on oil, which is a LOT of things. Lately, it's also increasingly a weapons manufacturer and cybersecurity base - their technologies are tested out on Palestinians as if they are guinea pigs, and then these systems are sold to various countries for use in their own populations. In general, Palestinians today have low qualities of life and the amount of territory they control shrinks by the year as Israel shoves Palestinians out of their homes and puts Israeli settlers in those homes instead. Naturally, the Palestinians are not happy about this at all, but resistance is difficult even when you're not surrounded on all sides (Gaza has the sea, Israel, and Egypt bordering it, and Egypt is currently sympathetic to the Israeli side due to a coup that put Sisi in power; while the West Bank has Israel and Jordan, and Jordan is also sympathetic to Israel currently).

Palestine wants a state for themselves, which is a fairly reasonable thing to want. Israel absolutely does not want a two-state solution let alone to give Palestine all its land back. The two are therefore at an impasse - there's a fundamental contradiction here that cannot be solved by some middle of the ground solution. Palestine has attempted on numerous occasions to try and resist, both peacefully and violently - both methods get them killed in the thousands while the West says nothing, because again, it's extremely important to have Israel in the region as a Western imperialist outpost. Have you ever noticed that the only time the phrase "... has a right to exist", it's always in reference to Israel? Few other nations seem to have this "right" in the West's eyes. Yugoslavia sure didn't. Neither did the USSR, or for that matter modern-day Russia given the rhetoric going around a year or so ago about how they wanted to subdivide Russia into a dozen oblasts.

There are other powers in the region that are against Israel, with the weaker ones being Syria and Lebanon, while the strongest is Iran. Up until fairly recently, while Hezbollah (a sort of state-within-a-state military force separate from the rest of Lebanon but also integrated into it) has scored a few points on Israel in the past, they were broadly speaking outgunned by Israel. Additionally, Israel has nukes, which made a war to actually overthrow Israel essentially impossible without the risk of nuclear bombs being dropped on Beirut, Damascus, Tehran, etc. This has changed in the last few years, due to a mixture of Israel (and the West broadly speaking) becoming relatively weaker because so much military aid has been sent and destroyed in Ukraine, and Iran and friends becoming stronger. The threat of nuclear annihilation still exists, and it's one of the major problems still for the anti-Israel resistance, but given Hamas' victory in Gaza a week ago, there is blood in the water and the sharks are coming.

I hope this all shows that thinking along the lines of "X hates Y and so they're fighting" obfuscates a lot of what's actually going on geopolitically. It's extremely important to say that the fact that Israel is a Jewish state doesn't mean that they have, according to various right-wing conspiracy theories, some kind of outsized influence over so-and-so countries. Israel does have an influence over various countries because their propaganda department is very active in the West to shut down anti-Zionist (which is unequivocally NOT the same as anti-semitism) viewpoints, and the aforementioned cybersecurity and weapons development programs, but this is a two-way street. The West needs Israel. Israel needs the West. The United States is essentially what has kept Israel alive for the better part of the last century.

This isn't to say that Zionist and Islamic beliefs have no impact on the calculus here - they have a lot to do with it, in fact - but merely to say that this isn't just some inherently religious war.

Palestinians want freedom and sovereignty, the Israeli government wants the exact opposite, and most Israeli people either support the government or don't care what happens (particularly because they get free real estatesettlements out of it).

the British took over Palestine from the Ottomans, suppressed decolonization movements, then partitioned it to form Israel. during the formation of the Israeli state, Palestinians were slaughtered and driven out of their homes in an event known as the Nakba - which translates as "The Catastrophe". since then, there have been a series of wars resulting in the slow but steady encroachment of the Israeli state - look ip maps of the region over the decades - and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. in such an atmosphere, nothing but mutual hate is possible.

Hmm, why would Palestinians hate European settlers that stole their land via the imperial edict of Britain? 🙄

Well Israel is a settler-colonial project propped up by a global military empire who wants a military ally/outpost in the middle east, and that settler-colonial project is ripping people out of their homes to give land to settlers.

Palestinians are the ones getting ripped out of their homes, having legal rights stripped away from them, and ultimately being corralled into what are fenced-in, open air concentration camps as Israel continues expanding its borders. This is what has resulted in conditions like what we see in Gaza, which is currently one of the highest population density places on earth as a result of Palestinians having more and more of their land colonized and the families who weren't murdered in ethnic cleansing campaigns had to live closer and closer together as they were driven out of their homes. And as more and more people keep getting shoved into smaller and areas of land as Israel closes its borders in more and more via military occupation, Israel uses its control of the land surrounding these settlements to restrict food, medicine, and electricity from getting to Palestinians. Gaza usually only gets 4 hours of electricity every day despite living in an arid climate where not having air conditioning can result in death from heat stroke on particularly hot days. ~95% of the water in Gaza is not safe to drink, so death from starvation and dehydration are both incredibly common. And with extremely limited access to medical resources, very few people live to/past middle age, with the average age in Gaza currently sitting around 19 years old. Living conditions are so bad that suicidality among children is incredibly common, with over half of people under 18 reporting that they have no will to live when surveyed. And when Israel is not expanding its borders and settling more land, it preys on the desperation of the Palestinian people who have had their lives ripped away from them by employing them for cheap labor to make the lives of the settlers more comfortable. Those are the Palestinians who also have citizenship in Israel so that they can work in Israel, but even with citizenship they are second-class citizens without access to most political and legal rights.

Israelis don't have any particular reason to hate Palestinians, they're just doing what every settler-colony does and they keep experiencing blowback from the people they are colonizing. All of the propaganda about thousands of years of Holy War over a Holy Land is just a founding mythos used to obscure this colonizer/colonized relationship by pretending that these are two groups on equal standing that are bickering with each other because they just can't get along.

Most normal people don’t. But the political situation of “we were here first” vs. “This is now the land of Israel” causes whatever you see happening nowadays.

Usually it's oil. But this time it's airable land and water.

Zionist colonisers from Europe forced Palestinians from their land 75 year ago and have continued to inflict death and misery on those that remain.

They don’t it’s a bit to keep the west from crowding their tourist spots.

Yes but see, clearly Hamas is everywhere and that clearly justifies the civilian casualties. Clearly.

Obviously. No civilians are in the North to strike anymore.

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

Archbishop says Israel warned Gaza hospital three days in a row.

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

Oh wow. They're really trying to shove words in his mouth. He confirmed the facts he knew to be true, then whoever is asking the questions is trying to put together a narrative.

Would you care to share with us your perception of the situation from the ground? What are the prevailing feelings you’re seeing in Egypt re: the initial Al-Aqsa flood, the Israeli retaliation, Sisi’s handling of the border crossing?

Based

It's insane how evil these people are.

Community note has since been removed, of course.

https://x.com/wyattreed13/status/1714338974544625692?s=20

https://youtu.be/A_uwzugvv-g?si=E5Lt0f4BusS-ErXt

It's not a guided bomb though guys, trust me bro it's a misfired rocket. Don't think about how large of a rocket that would have to be to cause that level of damage, just trust me bro. Don't compare the audios of the two videos above, just trust me bro.

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

How Israeli PR attempts to control the narrative after an attack.

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

Sexual Violence

Events:

'I Saw Fit to Remove Her From the World'

Using an Attack Dog, Israeli Women Soldiers Forced Palestinian Women to Undress | The untold story of the abuse of Palestinian women in Hebron

Opinion pieces:

How colonizers weaponize rape: reflections from the Palestinian case

Nakba74: Rethinking Zionism as a gendered colonial enterprise

Vox video about Nakba: Link

Settlements in the West Bank: Link

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

Dr. Gabor Maté (Holocaust Survivor)

Norman Finklestein

Former IDF soldier talks about how he realized that his actions were perpetuating apartheid, and that Palestinians were right to resist through any means.

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.